Israel Says It Will Treat Online Credit Card Theft As It Would Terrorism 422
In the wake of the online theft of at least 6,000 credit card numbers belonging to Israelis, Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said that "Israel has active capabilities for striking at those who are trying to harm it, and no agency or hacker will be immune from retaliatory action." Also at Reuters, with a few more details about the believed thief, known as OxOmar: "After Israeli media ran what they said were interviews conducted with OxOmar over email, the Haaretz newspaper said a blogger had tracked the hacker down and determined he was a 19-year-old citizen of the United Arab Emirates studying and working in Mexico."
How about spammers? (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, if suddenly a few of these turkey's start getting the business end of a small caliber pistol to the back of the head it wouldn't be that bad would it?
Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
What are they going to do, kill him?
The new catch phrase apparently (Score:5, Insightful)
Just call every crime terrorism.
Sad really, as it 'normalizes' the true acts of terrorism. If everything is labeled terrorism, it becomes 'yet another crime' and is ignored.
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is an excerpt from 0xOmar's original post on pastebin:
It's first part of our release, my goal is reacing 1 million non-duplicate people, which is 1/6 of Israel's population.
...
What's fun for us?
- Watching 400,000 people gathered in front of Israeli credit card companies and banks, complaining about cards and that they are stolen
- Watching Israeli banks shredding 400,000 credit cards and re-generate new cards (so costly, huh?)
- Watching people purchasing stuff for theirself using the cards and making Israeli credit cards untrustable in the world, like Nigerian credit cards
- and much more...
The alleged goal is to hurt lots of random people without any personal gain. And what is the goal of terrorism?
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:3, Insightful)
God forbid that people ever be inconvenienced!
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:2, Insightful)
You're a couple of decades late. These days Israel is ALWAYS the aggressor from what I hear.
YeYe (Score:4, Insightful)
Film at 11.
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's 5 pence. Go and have your sarcasm detector adjusted.
Re:How about spammers? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is not theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's 5 pence. Go and have your sarcasm detector adjusted.
Seriously, only weeks after the US declares all terrorists will be held indefinitely without regard to citizenship. Pick up a CC you find on the street, expect to surrender your rights as an American.
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:5, Insightful)
Read those lines carefully. The goals seems more than anything to hurt Israeli banks. That may or may not be for personal gain--one can presumably play the money market towards that end. The fact that lots of random people are hurt is an indirect consequence, not the objective goal.
"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." Now, if the above is an attempt to cause Israel harm through its banks or to change the banking system through political acts...but even then, there's no violence involved and while the suggested interpretation of resulting events from the leak are intimidating and coercive, the fact that they're actually releasing the credit card details make it more than just a threat. So, no, overall, I'd guess the term you're looking for is the term "asshole". Sure, terrorists might be assholes, but not all assholes are terrorists.
If anything, this sounds like a case of (a) if all you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail--and Israel sure likes it anti-terrorism hammer--and (b) just another example of political corruption where instead of punishing the banks for somehow fucking up so badly that the information was leaked online and calling for their heads (figuratively) they're more interested in calling for the heads (literally) of the people who exposed just how fucked up securing that data was--an act that is ultimately self-defeating if it were meant to protect those random people who are hurt as instead of using the opportunity for a very public, open expose on the issues with the banking system as a justification to fix those problems they've chosen to focused on attacking the messengers (evil bastards that they are) and leaving tons of other crooks to do the same thing in secret (although I guess Israel could always send its secret police into other countries to execute the crooks, but they can't advertise that as a deterrent, so that rather counters the whole idea that this is more a symbolic thing to draw attention to avoid future breaches).
In short, this is why calling everything terrorism is fucked up. It solves nothing, blurs the evil that terrorism is, and demonstrates how beholden governments are to their people: those (people and organizations) with money and not the average person.
PS - This doesn't mean I don't think the leakers shouldn't be punished both for the breach and the leak. But that doesn't justify any claim of terrorism nor the focus on the leakers seemingly over and above those that allowed the leak. Either Israeli banks are secure or they are not. If they're not--which seems to be demonstrated--and one's whole country is dependent upon them, I'd be more upset and focused on them failing in their duty than the countless evil or assholic people in the world who would exploit such businesses. I mean, there's an implied fraud given the reasonable expectations of what a bank is supposed to be, a firm that will securely hold your money; it's harder to be upset at the child/man/bastard who shows everyone the emperor wears no clothes.
Re:This is not theft (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the accounts that get stolen but the money. Just like a train robbery doesn't mean a theft of trains. [youtube.com]
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole agression vs. retaliation dichotomy is pretty meaningless when talking about two sides that have been trading blows almost continually for decades.
Decades??? Try Millenia!
Re:The new catch phrase apparently (Score:5, Insightful)
Now imagine that no matter how you react, someone who doesn't live under these conditions accuses you of overreacting and not having any sort of perspective.
Re:The new catch phrase apparently (Score:5, Insightful)
If the problem is insufficient consumer protection laws, wouldn't the right solution be ... wait for it ... better consumer protection laws?
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd reply, but I'm afraid the Mossad would treat me as a terrorist.
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
Critical of Israel != anti-semitic
Re:How about spammers? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The new catch phrase apparently (Score:2, Insightful)
You do realize that the Israelis have killed far more innocent civilians than the various terrorist groups they're fighting, right? Also, you do realize that Israel regularly violates international laws. Not to mention their pillaging of Palestinian resources and starvation of the people in Gaza.
Of course Israel doesn't use Nuclear weapons, there's no way in hell that the US would continue to prop up their country if they went ballistic. Where exactly do you think they got those nuclear weapons.
At the end of the day it's terrorists versus war criminals anybody that claims some sort of moral high ground for the Israelis really needs to study up on the matter. When all is said and done, they're every bit as evil as the people they claim to fight.
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know you are just being modest for the uninformed, but from the statement "(suprisingly many israeli newspapers are left wing and anti-govt before you call bias)" I would remove the word "surprisingly". Anyone who has ever followed the Israeli points-of-view (in addition to others) couldn't miss the fact that Israel has a wide spectrum of opinions (a sign of a very healthy, open, and diverse society in my opinion).
I hope that one day your neighbours value life and liberty as much as your countrymen do. Not all of the citizens of the world are fooled by the pro-terrorist propaganda, or the bullshit from their sychophants elsewhere.
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit. If it was YOUR credit card, or your wife's, or child's (if you are older) then you would want your state to take action. If the goal of the heist was not ordinary crime (take a little money) but solely to disrupt your families life then what crime is closest precent to that? that's right, terrorism.
To me it seems that your political views about "funding in a post 9/11 political environment" has overriden your human empathy. As in all such cases the best thing to do would be to put aside your political and worldviews for a while and ask yourself the very simple question, "What should be done if this happened to ME or MY FAMILY?". You should ask yourself this for every act of terrorism (physical or cyber), for every rocket fired into Israel (you'll get to ask this several times per day, although it is so common it won't make news elsewhere), or for every Palestinian home destroyed for settlers (see, injustice is not one-sided). Then you probably would be less inclined to dismiss the effect this has - it is not just some university pank. Even worse, it reflects the poisoned information being given to the youth of the Middle East.
Re:After all the advancements in cryptography (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure. I'd want the state to do what it takes to stop him, just like I want them to stop bank robbers and shoplifters.
No, not really. I recognize bureaucrats twist language in an effort to get funding.
"What should be done?" isn't the same question as "Is this terrorism?"
I'll get modded down, probably (Score:3, Insightful)
As much as I have a problem with the way the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and deny them fundamental human rights....
They're not wrong to call crackers who steal people's financial data terrorists.
The people whose credit is being damaged and whose money is stolen are NOT the ones who make decisions for the Israeli government. Nor were the people who had their info stolen by Anonymous in North America or Europe.
When you victimize the people at random, you are committing a terrorist act. You are punishing the innocent for the decisions and actions of the guilty who are not harmed in the LEAST when you victimize the people. Terrorism does NOT have to include death and murder.
True, there is usually less inflammatory legislation in place that can be used to prosecute crackers, but it's also largely ineffective, because it's classed as a "white collar" crime. "White Collar" is a smokescreen for "business crime" laws, with watered down penalties to avoid "hurting" the unethical business people who get caught in fraud, extortion, money laundering, ponzi schemes, and other scams. It downplays the number of people who are hurt by their actions. Financial crimes which hurt hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people should have much harsher punishments and jail time than they do.
Fines do not stop a business, nor do they punish the executives who made the illegal decisions. They're treated as a cost of doing business, and the company pays the tab because the executives are protected from financial damages by the very structure of a legal corporation. JAIL TIME FOR EXECUTIVES, not fines for companies! Their role as officers of the company does NOT protect them from personal prosecution for illegal management of a company. There is absolutely NOTHING in Canadian or US corporate law that says otherwise. It's just not done very often, because these buggers have DEEP pockets for lawyers to fight the charges tooth and nail.
That is just stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Terrorists are not in it for money or financial gain, these scum are. Applying the wrong counter-strategy is just plain dumb. Not that I am surprises Israeli politicians are as dumb as the rest of them.
All part of the plan? (Score:4, Insightful)
Those fabulous steps to Draconian governance from Western-style democracies are:
1. Establish a basis for circumventing human rights (eg "terrorism" or "piracy" or "national security", etc.);
2. Imbue state systems with financial gain from said basis (eg prison industrial complex, military industrial complex, etc.);
3. Have said systems lobby for increased funding and authority, encroaching on traditional authorities (eg policing, prosecutors, media, voting systems, etc);
4. Expand the application of the basis for circumventing human rights to other areas (eg immigration, child pornography, copyright violations, any other interests with lobbyists);
5. Enact laws that undermine the financing of political dissension, and undermine systems that may allow any discourse critical of the established government;
6. Engage in mass human rights violations, ghettoization, prison labour; State ignores human rights, imprisons or executes dissenters and acts with impunity and disregard for reason;
7. The state becomes a vehicle for despots supported by demagoguery. Non tenet anguillam, per caudam qui tenet illam.
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The new catch phrase apparently (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would a consumer, knowingly liable for all potential credit card fraud, possess a credit card with a $30k limit that he/she can't afford to cover?
Re:Retaliatory action? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
Shut the fuck up, racist.
I'm fed up of being called racist because I'm critical of some country's policies. If you hadn't noticed, Syria is taking a bit more a bashing in the news than Isreal recently, and when I or other people comment upon that they get called anti-muslim.
I know you are spouting pro-Semitic, racist vomit, because you're not addressing any of the issues, you're just name calling, and dropping people into your well defined categories.
alternatively (Score:3, Insightful)
what am i talking about ? if you dont know what that was, just shut up, and educate yourself before talking politics.