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Crime The Military

Israel Says It Will Treat Online Credit Card Theft As It Would Terrorism 422

In the wake of the online theft of at least 6,000 credit card numbers belonging to Israelis, Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said that "Israel has active capabilities for striking at those who are trying to harm it, and no agency or hacker will be immune from retaliatory action." Also at Reuters, with a few more details about the believed thief, known as OxOmar: "After Israeli media ran what they said were interviews conducted with OxOmar over email, the Haaretz newspaper said a blogger had tracked the hacker down and determined he was a 19-year-old citizen of the United Arab Emirates studying and working in Mexico."
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Israel Says It Will Treat Online Credit Card Theft As It Would Terrorism

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  • by ducomputergeek ( 595742 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:37PM (#38623252)

    I mean, if suddenly a few of these turkey's start getting the business end of a small caliber pistol to the back of the head it wouldn't be that bad would it?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by DCTech ( 2545590 )
      Would that also include the likes of GroupOn and other sites who capture your email so they can spam you? It's the same matter, just legalized.
  • by vakuona ( 788200 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:37PM (#38623256)

    What are they going to do, kill him?

    • by retech ( 1228598 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:41PM (#38623298)
      Of course they'll kill them. Since Israel is ALWAYS the victim (sic) and the only way they can enact justice is to butcher the criminal and his family and his friends and his friend's families. And rightfully so. All those people were either active participants in the crime or had committed thought crime by inaction. They all deserve the same retribution. It's what Israel does best. I think we should send them more money because they are such a victim all the time they need more weapons.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        You're a couple of decades late. These days Israel is ALWAYS the aggressor from what I hear.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I think you are a victim of propaganda and I am sad for you that you are so narrow minded. Do you even know where Israel is on a map? Do you know its history? Do you know what "Palestinians" are and really come from? Do you even understand the conflicts? Do you think you understand Islam? Or even Judaism for that matter.

        Getting directly to the article and crime, first of all, this hacking was done for a mix of racial, religious, and political reasons. This would not have been done to another Arab country in

        • In addition the same barbarians insist that the holocaust never happened, that it was an invention of Israel. People who spread that kind of lie should have their tongues cut out.

        • by chrb ( 1083577 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @03:51PM (#38624080)

          Secondly, last I recall, citizens in other countries don't fear being blown up, shot, kidnapped, and tortured by Israelis.

          Do citizens of Gaza and the West Bank count?

          you do realize that the enemies of Israel such as Egypt actually receive more US aid.

          Incorrect. Israel gets $3 billion per year. Egypt gets $1.3 billion. Israel has a population of 7.6 million. Egypt has 81 million. So per capita aid is many times higher for Israel.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by dbIII ( 701233 )
            Of course they don't, those in the Gaza and West Bank Ghettos are Untermenchen.
            I like Israel, it's the closest thing in that part of the world that comes close to respecting the idea of law. What I don't like is that it's currently run by a bunch of corrupt fascists that think nothing of sending assassination squads to other countries under fake passports of those that think that Israel is their ally.
        • by DrVomact ( 726065 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @04:20PM (#38624336) Journal

          I'd reply, but I'm afraid the Mossad would treat me as a terrorist.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 07, 2012 @04:30PM (#38624402)

          So I suggest you shove your snarky veiled anti-semetic, inaccurate, misinformed comment you know where.

          Critical of Israel != anti-semitic

        • by SplashMyBandit ( 1543257 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @04:45PM (#38624526)
          Kick ass post! Very well reasoned and accurate as far as I have seen as an open-minded foreign visitor (from New Zealand) to your country and your neighbours - even meeting some Hezbollah dudes in the Golan (who were total uncool arseholes in my opinion).

          I know you are just being modest for the uninformed, but from the statement "(suprisingly many israeli newspapers are left wing and anti-govt before you call bias)" I would remove the word "surprisingly". Anyone who has ever followed the Israeli points-of-view (in addition to others) couldn't miss the fact that Israel has a wide spectrum of opinions (a sign of a very healthy, open, and diverse society in my opinion).

          I hope that one day your neighbours value life and liberty as much as your countrymen do. Not all of the citizens of the world are fooled by the pro-terrorist propaganda, or the bullshit from their sychophants elsewhere.

        • by bjourne ( 1034822 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @11:24PM (#38626784) Homepage Journal
          Do you ever in your nationalistic fervor reflect upon the fact that in the last major bout between Israel and Hamas in December 2008, 1200 Palestinians were killed and what, 2 Israelis were? All 1200 were terrorists so it doesn't matter? Why is it that for every one Israeli killed, hundreds of Palestinians die and Israel can still maintain an image of taking the high ground and being the victim?
      • I will cite myself, with some emphasis added, citing Nietzsche in-another unrelated thread.

        Re:Subcaste (Score:4, Interesting)
        by JonySuede (1908576) on Friday January 06, @07:15PM (#38616880) Journal

        the ubercast Nietzsche is talking about is not the one the Nazi understood...

        From Beyond good and evil:

        What we nowadays call a “nation” in Europe is essentially more a res facta [something made] than a res nata [something born] (indeed sometimes it looks confusingly like a res ficta et picta [something made up and unreal]—), in any case something developing, young, easily adjusted, not yet a race, to say nothing of aere perennius [more enduring than bronze], as is the Jewish type. But these “nations” should be very wary of every hot-headed competition and enmity! That the Jews, if they wanted to—or if people were to force them, as the anti-Semites seem to want to do —could even now become predominant, in fact, quite literally gain mastery over Europe, is certain; that they are not working and planning for that is equally certain. Meanwhile by contrast they desire and wish––even with a certain insistence—to be absorbed into and assimilated by Europe. They thirst to be finally established somewhere or other, allowed, respected, and to bring to an end their nomadic life, to the “Wandering Jew.” And people should pay full attention to this tendency and impulse (which in itself perhaps even expresses a moderating of Jewish instincts) and accommodate it. And for this, it might perhaps be useful and reasonable to expel the anti-Semitic ranters out of the country.

        They were poked for so many years by the Muslim world, and by the western world as the worst interlude ever, that it is only normal for them to strongly react when they are specifically attacked by people of a specific religion.

    • That's how Israel normally treats terrorists.
    • What are they going to do, kill him?

      Unfortunately -- probably not.

    • by tomhudson ( 43916 ) <barbara@hudson.barbara-hudson@com> on Saturday January 07, 2012 @03:08PM (#38623666) Journal
      Not necessarily. 3/4 of the people whose credit card numbers were stolen refuse to complain, because the thief is charging less on them than their kids were.

      They want to contact this guy to see what he can do about their kids cell phone bills.

    • No, but they sure wish to try. Talk about adequacy...
  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:38PM (#38623266) Homepage Journal

    Just call every crime terrorism.

    Sad really, as it 'normalizes' the true acts of terrorism. If everything is labeled terrorism, it becomes 'yet another crime' and is ignored.

    • Just wait til they make jaywalking into 'terrorism'. We'll see summary executions on the streets.

      That'll teach you to walk at the crosswalk!
      • We'll see summary executions on the streets.

        Although, this being a money-related crime, the executioners shall be wielding socks stuffed with lots of coins instead of axes.

        • by slaad ( 589282 )

          We'll see summary executions on the streets.

          Although, this being a money-related crime, the executioners shall be wielding socks stuffed with lots of coins instead of axes.

          Why would executioners wield socks stuffed with axes?

      • I AM...THE LAW!
      • by cshark ( 673578 )
        So by that are you implying that credit card fraud should not be a crime?
    • by Morty ( 32057 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:44PM (#38623334) Journal

      They didn't say it is terrorism, they said they would use the same tools as for terrorism. That is, they know it's not terrorism, but think that the same tools would be useful.

      • by Oswald ( 235719 )

        Well, TFA says the Israelis called these cyber-attacks, "a breach of sovereignty comparable to a terrorist operation, and must be treated as such." That's pretty close to calling it terrorism. Maybe they should pass a law making it "statutory terrorism".

    • by Yvanhoe ( 564877 )
      Who cares it becomes common ? The goal is to use the legal shortcuts created for terrorism in as many cases as possible.
  • I guess terrorism is now just one more meaningless buzz word.
    I imagine that defining the work "terrorist" as "criminal" helps to get around a lot of that unnecessary red tape of the justice system.

  • by dmesg0 ( 1342071 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:45PM (#38623344)

    Here is an excerpt from 0xOmar's original post on pastebin:

    It's first part of our release, my goal is reacing 1 million non-duplicate people, which is 1/6 of Israel's population.


    What's fun for us?
    - Watching 400,000 people gathered in front of Israeli credit card companies and banks, complaining about cards and that they are stolen
    - Watching Israeli banks shredding 400,000 credit cards and re-generate new cards (so costly, huh?)
    - Watching people purchasing stuff for theirself using the cards and making Israeli credit cards untrustable in the world, like Nigerian credit cards
    - and much more...

    The alleged goal is to hurt lots of random people without any personal gain. And what is the goal of terrorism?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vakuona ( 788200 )

      God forbid that people ever be inconvenienced!

    • by tsotha ( 720379 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:52PM (#38623456)
      The goal of terrorism is, you now, terror, not "Aw crap, this is going to be a hassle."
        • by tsotha ( 720379 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @03:08PM (#38623668)
          Uh huh. "Cyberterrorism" is a bullshit plea for funding in a post 9/11 political environment. It's not terrorism.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Bullshit. If it was YOUR credit card, or your wife's, or child's (if you are older) then you would want your state to take action. If the goal of the heist was not ordinary crime (take a little money) but solely to disrupt your families life then what crime is closest precent to that? that's right, terrorism.

            To me it seems that your political views about "funding in a post 9/11 political environment" has overriden your human empathy. As in all such cases the best thing to do would be to put aside your poli

            • by tsotha ( 720379 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @05:59PM (#38625126)

              If it was YOUR credit card, or your wife's, or child's (if you are older) then you would want your state to take action.

              Sure. I'd want the state to do what it takes to stop him, just like I want them to stop bank robbers and shoplifters.

              To me it seems that your political views about "funding in a post 9/11 political environment" has overriden your human empathy.

              No, not really. I recognize bureaucrats twist language in an effort to get funding.

              As in all such cases the best thing to do would be to put aside your political and worldviews for a while and ask yourself the very simple question, "What should be done if this happened to ME or MY FAMILY?".

              "What should be done?" isn't the same question as "Is this terrorism?"

        • by g8oz ( 144003 )

          Fail. That is a politicized term as well. No blood, then no terrorism.

      • The goal of terrorism is, you now, terror, not "Aw crap, this is going to be a hassle."

        Neologism: Hasselism. As in committing acts of hasselism. No relationship to David Hasslehoff.

    • by Oswald ( 235719 )

      I think the key here is to decide if your use of "hurt" is appropriate. It conflates financial harm with the kind of physical suffering usually caused by terrorists. Personally, I don't think that's appropriate, but if you do then you would be right to side with the Israeli government on this issue.

      • Ever lived without money? lost your life savings or had them stolen? with the inability to get credit due to problems in the past? what if your credit card was used to buy things from dodgy sites that showed up on your statements? what if this was done not to an isolated person but on a massive scale (a few percent of your citizens). Basically I think you are so dismissive of the effects of this only because it didn't happen to you personally. As I've said elsewhere, ask yourself what you would want yor gov
        • by amorsen ( 7485 )

          I would want my government and my banks to fuciking FIX their CREDIT CARD SECURITY and their BANKING LAWS!

    • by Lehk228 ( 705449 )
      Terrorism hurts and kills and maims people, you must have an inappropriate love of money to be confusing theft of money and inconvenience purchasing with violence and mayhem
      • Imaging if someone took all your hard-earned money. Imagine you had a crap credit rating because of identity theft. Imagine someone did this not only to you, but to your family and to anyone else they could find in a systematic way. Imagine that the person did this not for financial gain (like Mafia would), or perverse jollies (as Aonymous would), but because they wanted to hurt your country and its citizens (as in, as a terrorist would). If YOU were affected how would YOU feel? Would you want to government
    • The guy, indeed, claims to have stolen 400'000 CC Numbers and not just 6'000 as mentioned in TFS:
      http://pastebin.com/13nJQQ9p [pastebin.com]

    • by 10101001 10101001 ( 732688 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @03:12PM (#38623710) Journal

      The alleged goal is to hurt lots of random people without any personal gain.

      Read those lines carefully. The goals seems more than anything to hurt Israeli banks. That may or may not be for personal gain--one can presumably play the money market towards that end. The fact that lots of random people are hurt is an indirect consequence, not the objective goal.

      And what is the goal of terrorism?

      "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." Now, if the above is an attempt to cause Israel harm through its banks or to change the banking system through political acts...but even then, there's no violence involved and while the suggested interpretation of resulting events from the leak are intimidating and coercive, the fact that they're actually releasing the credit card details make it more than just a threat. So, no, overall, I'd guess the term you're looking for is the term "asshole". Sure, terrorists might be assholes, but not all assholes are terrorists.

      If anything, this sounds like a case of (a) if all you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail--and Israel sure likes it anti-terrorism hammer--and (b) just another example of political corruption where instead of punishing the banks for somehow fucking up so badly that the information was leaked online and calling for their heads (figuratively) they're more interested in calling for the heads (literally) of the people who exposed just how fucked up securing that data was--an act that is ultimately self-defeating if it were meant to protect those random people who are hurt as instead of using the opportunity for a very public, open expose on the issues with the banking system as a justification to fix those problems they've chosen to focused on attacking the messengers (evil bastards that they are) and leaving tons of other crooks to do the same thing in secret (although I guess Israel could always send its secret police into other countries to execute the crooks, but they can't advertise that as a deterrent, so that rather counters the whole idea that this is more a symbolic thing to draw attention to avoid future breaches).

      In short, this is why calling everything terrorism is fucked up. It solves nothing, blurs the evil that terrorism is, and demonstrates how beholden governments are to their people: those (people and organizations) with money and not the average person.

      PS - This doesn't mean I don't think the leakers shouldn't be punished both for the breach and the leak. But that doesn't justify any claim of terrorism nor the focus on the leakers seemingly over and above those that allowed the leak. Either Israeli banks are secure or they are not. If they're not--which seems to be demonstrated--and one's whole country is dependent upon them, I'd be more upset and focused on them failing in their duty than the countless evil or assholic people in the world who would exploit such businesses. I mean, there's an implied fraud given the reasonable expectations of what a bank is supposed to be, a firm that will securely hold your money; it's harder to be upset at the child/man/bastard who shows everyone the emperor wears no clothes.

    • by Hentes ( 2461350 )

      So causing inconvenience is now on equal ground with murder? And a sin is much worse when the assailant gains nothing from it?

    • by chrb ( 1083577 )
      The goal of terrorism is to effect geopolitical change by making people experience terror. If this hacker has geopolitical goals and the Israelis are terrified by his actions, then he is a terrorist. But it seems unlikely that having credit card details stolen would make a person feel terror.
  • YeYe (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wzzzzrd ( 886091 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:51PM (#38623430)
    And in 3 years from now every western government will treat everything as it would terrorism.

    Film at 11.
  • by tsotha ( 720379 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:51PM (#38623432)

    If he's strangled by a hotel maid we'll know what happened.

    Not that I'll, you know, shed a tear.

  • This is not theft (Score:5, Insightful)

    by u17 ( 1730558 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:54PM (#38623490)
    The original owners did not lose their credit card numbers. Therefore it's not theft, it's unauthorised copying! I'm surprised that this is pointed out so many times under articles about file sharing, but not in cases like this.
  • by formfeed ( 703859 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @02:56PM (#38623506)

    True terrorism is a criminal act that terrorizes beyond the actual incident. In my opinion, these things should also be added to that list:
    High school mobbing.
    Tail gating drivers.
    The NY Yankees.

    • Don't forget DRM, foreclosures, high school*, and Atari 2600 graphics.

      *That's not already on the list. Read carefully.

  • way to not screw around.

  • What do they mean, is mossad going to start conducting credit card fraud themselves in foreign countries?
  • Israel gonna flatten Gaza Strip every time some Isreali gets their credit card swiped?

    • No. They will soon flatten Gaza for the increasingly long-range rockets being fired every day from there. This probably doesn't make your news (probably only celebrity weddings and divorces, lol. If you check Israeli news from time to time (I check Ha'arertz to see the Israeli perspective) you will see that rockets or explosive planting attempts happen *every* day. This is why a smackdown will come.
  • This is the original article that the linked articles are attempting to paraphrase:
    Israel vows to hit back after credit cards hacked [haaretz.com]

    While it doesn't add too much information, it might have slightly better wording.

  • by StripedCow ( 776465 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @03:38PM (#38623950)

    we still have an effectively broken payment system, and instead of fixing it, they are going after the symptoms...

    • by SplashMyBandit ( 1543257 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @05:28PM (#38624930)
      Oh it could be fixed, but the banks don't want to do this. Much cheaper to write it off as "bad debt" than implement systems that would prevent this (and prevent people's lives from being disrupted/ruined). To be fair, most customers would give you their credit card details for the promise of a $100 voucher (they give away personal details all the time do things like phone credit etc). Customers also don't like even the slightest inconvenience even for much greater security (if more than one authentication method is involved).
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      If every point of sale, transfer, bank network and card is well encrypted the GCHQ and NSA will be very unhappy.
      For how long will they be able set and flood the world with very low cost weak crypto is the question.
      http://cryptome.org/nsa-v-all.htm [cryptome.org]
      Setting the Data Encryption Standard (DES) was the hint.
  • Shape of things (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) * on Saturday January 07, 2012 @04:35PM (#38624450) Journal

    I'm pretty sure we can expect to see something similar in the US before long.

    Anyone who hacks into an account, or uses the Internet for crime (such as filesharing) or disrupts corporate activity by protesting in a park, is going to be treated as a terrorist and considered an enemy combatant. After all, when you threaten profits, you threaten everything we hold sacred. Let's just see what happens to the Occupy people who dare protest at the GOP Convention outside of the specified "Free Speech Zone" later this year.

    As we know, last week a bill became law that allows for "terrorists" to be held indefinitely without being charged. There already is a legal doctrine allowing assassination of citizens for being "terrorists".

    The message is clear: You. Better. Behave.

  • by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @06:06PM (#38625162) Homepage Journal

    As much as I have a problem with the way the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and deny them fundamental human rights....

    They're not wrong to call crackers who steal people's financial data terrorists.

    The people whose credit is being damaged and whose money is stolen are NOT the ones who make decisions for the Israeli government. Nor were the people who had their info stolen by Anonymous in North America or Europe.

    When you victimize the people at random, you are committing a terrorist act. You are punishing the innocent for the decisions and actions of the guilty who are not harmed in the LEAST when you victimize the people. Terrorism does NOT have to include death and murder.

    True, there is usually less inflammatory legislation in place that can be used to prosecute crackers, but it's also largely ineffective, because it's classed as a "white collar" crime. "White Collar" is a smokescreen for "business crime" laws, with watered down penalties to avoid "hurting" the unethical business people who get caught in fraud, extortion, money laundering, ponzi schemes, and other scams. It downplays the number of people who are hurt by their actions. Financial crimes which hurt hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of people should have much harsher punishments and jail time than they do.

    Fines do not stop a business, nor do they punish the executives who made the illegal decisions. They're treated as a cost of doing business, and the company pays the tab because the executives are protected from financial damages by the very structure of a legal corporation. JAIL TIME FOR EXECUTIVES, not fines for companies! Their role as officers of the company does NOT protect them from personal prosecution for illegal management of a company. There is absolutely NOTHING in Canadian or US corporate law that says otherwise. It's just not done very often, because these buggers have DEEP pockets for lawyers to fight the charges tooth and nail.

    • by msobkow ( 48369 )

      Ask Martha Stewart -- she's an example of someone who WAS jailed for her "white collar" crimes. It CAN be done. But with the rarity of it, when it does happen, the guilty are likely to claim they were "singled out" for special prosecution. At least Martha had the dignity to accept and serve her sentence gracefully instead of making any such claims.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @06:41PM (#38625322)

    Terrorists are not in it for money or financial gain, these scum are. Applying the wrong counter-strategy is just plain dumb. Not that I am surprises Israeli politicians are as dumb as the rest of them.

  • by debrain ( 29228 ) on Saturday January 07, 2012 @08:35PM (#38626018) Journal

    Those fabulous steps to Draconian governance from Western-style democracies are:

    1. Establish a basis for circumventing human rights (eg "terrorism" or "piracy" or "national security", etc.);

    2. Imbue state systems with financial gain from said basis (eg prison industrial complex, military industrial complex, etc.);

    3. Have said systems lobby for increased funding and authority, encroaching on traditional authorities (eg policing, prosecutors, media, voting systems, etc);

    4. Expand the application of the basis for circumventing human rights to other areas (eg immigration, child pornography, copyright violations, any other interests with lobbyists);

    5. Enact laws that undermine the financing of political dissension, and undermine systems that may allow any discourse critical of the established government;

    6. Engage in mass human rights violations, ghettoization, prison labour; State ignores human rights, imprisons or executes dissenters and acts with impunity and disregard for reason;

    7. The state becomes a vehicle for despots supported by demagoguery. Non tenet anguillam, per caudam qui tenet illam.

In less than a century, computers will be making substantial progress on ... the overriding problem of war and peace. -- James Slagle