China Says Its Internet Policies Are Open and Clear 181
itwbennett writes "Responding to a U.S. request to explain China's policies regarding blocking U.S. websites, China's foreign ministry said the country's Internet policies have been open and clear. 'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China,' said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu. 'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here, and we will continue to foster an open policy market.' The request, filed under World Trade Organization rules, is an effort to understand the trade impact of such blocking after a number of U.S. businesses have made complaints about access to their websites in China."
They mean "Open and *Fear*", right? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Where's Michael Kristopeit when we need him?
We just need to channel him away from slashdot users to foreign affairs commentary.
Re: (Score:2)
Where's Michael Kristopeit when we need him?
We just need to channel him away from slashdot users to foreign affairs commentary.
Screw Micheal, we need Dr. Bob! Only by treating subluxations can we cure China!
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, maybe Kim Jong-Il (NK, I know...) could use a chiropractor, it might help with his issues...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Regardless, the summary here is again written in such a manner that it's only there to gain responses like "fuck China!". They *are* very open about their policies. US less so, where everything seems to be done secretly. ACTA has been and is being pushe
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sony is the worst corporation in the world!
hmm, I think I'm still here, I haven't been shot in the street yet...
Re: (Score:3)
that is something many people do not understand. china may not be perfect, and not very pleasing to the individual in our standards, but in its deepest roots they are not warmongers or tyrants either, and they do not want to "attack the world". The chinese people themselves might not be so dazzled by western wisdom anyway at the moment i think, and we might have to listen up sometimes to them, too..
wake up. the western world is as free as china is. here you have to own money (best "partner" or "manager"), t
Re: (Score:2)
I would say that US is more pathetic. At least China keeps it within their own region. US takes it everywhere with ACTA, DMCA and actually making Verisign and ICANN remove domains for copyright infringement. China filters and doesn't affect other countries.
Don't forget drone attacks. "Ooops sorry our drone blew up the people at that wedding reception."
Re: (Score:2)
Who were probably shooting into the air and risking the lives of everyone for miles around...
Re: (Score:2)
I think the Africans [guardian.co.uk] might [chinaafricarealstory.com] disagree with you. [cnn.com]
Re: (Score:2)
How come is the WTO getting involved? I bet someone told them China blocked their eBay store, or something like that. That is something that might really upset the WTO. And then China responded, knowing the exact words to soothe the capitalist organization, no, no, we're not blocking eBay stores, in fact you can come to China to start your own eBay store yourself, we'll even give you tax breaks if you want.
Re: (Score:2)
They block facebook and twitter, denying those companies access to advertising revenue (well, facebook at least) and game income (facebook again - i haven't a clue what twitters revenue model is). Since they are thereby protecting the Chinese companies that are doing the same thing (weibo, most notably) its a trade issue.
A ban on imports from certain (or all) countries is a WTO violation, normally.
Re: (Score:2)
Just like the US gov removing .com and .net domains however they like. Just as unclear.
At least the Chinese gov isn't being a hypocrite, something the US government is guilty of multiple times for decades.
Re: (Score:2)
Right, because that's perfectly true and not hypocritical in the slightest.
Re: (Score:2)
At least the Chinese gov isn't being a hypocrite
Can you really say that with a straight face? They just said they protect the freedom of expression of their citizens! I don't think they've ever not cracked down on any expression that's critical of how things are being run.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, is hypocrisy somehow worse than repressive totalitarianism now? Given that you're right about the US's saying one thing and doing another, the shit we're doing is still comparatively damn minor compared to jailing people for protesting online.
People always pull that out: "At least I'm not a hypocrite!" Well, some things are worse than hypocrisy, so that's not a "get out of responsibility for your actions, free" card.
Note that "the shit we're doing is minor" is meant to be limited to online censorshi
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, I think that hypocrisy is a perfectly normal human frailty. Everyone is guilty of it to some extent, its not even worth criticising someone for.
Re: (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with striving to an ideal even if you are unable to reach it yourself. That is the definition of hypocracy.
Re: (Score:2)
So, a website (on US property... .com is US run) breaking US laws, should be allowed to continue to run...in the US?
Re: (Score:2)
ok so any 'regime' (democratic or otherwise) which "Acts first, apologizes later" is pathetic?
Cos that applies to a lot of them including ones that some may hold in high esteem such as the USA for example.
Free and open internet in China? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Inflation prices in my hometown (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not really. High inflation is a RESULT of foreign investment and fixed exchange policy.
Re: (Score:3)
However, with nasty inflation hitting all the major cities in China (food now costs as much as here in the US)
Baloney, Im visiting over here right now (one of the 3 major cities), and food is about 1/6th as much as in the US. A 30 mile taxi ride was about $25. And a large KFC meal can be had for about 20 RMB-- about $3. Ive also heard how much some apartments cost in the area, and it is REALLY cheap when you compare with apartments in DC or NYC.
So inflation there may be, but youre out of your mind if you think food costs anywhere near as much as the US. 1 USD still goes a really long way over here.
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently I was a little soon in speaking.
So things like Papa Johns and KFC are much closer to (and sometimes more than) US prices. But for food on the streets, you can still get a ton for $1.
Others have commented that for some things prices are indeed higher, especially compared to a few years ago. Groceries tend to be cheaper, however.
A lot of it probably has to do with the huge number of people without a lot of money who make their living selling things on the street; the bigger companies tend to char
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I admit that I may have information bias so I'm interested in the reverse idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
'Float' is a misnomer here. They just relaxed controls on exchange rate a little, not nearly enough to make exchange rate reflect the real situation.
Re: (Score:2)
What's the difference between the Yuan and the Reminbi?
Re: (Score:2)
more open than in France, where you cannot discuss illegal actions by police anymore [techpresident.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
While not "okay", it's still worlds "better" then China. Your comparison is akin to comparison between Jack the Ripper and a truck driver who fell asleep behind the wheel killing a prostitute standing on the curb as a result.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
/ . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept
And the fact that your post equates France with China is good evidence for that.
Re: (Score:2)
What The ??? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Same thing that has been going on for the past 3000+ years.
Now we have nukes, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Just because governments didn't recognize them doesn't mean people didn't have them.
Re:Just because governments didn't recognize them (Score:2)
Nope.
Whatever a government recognizes is what rights you get. All rights are "alienable". You 'deserve' nothing.
It's only what the greater education of a government agrees upon is what you get for rights. Some folks up top found the awesome trifecta to crush us with because they dare us to be "against terrorism", "Against protecting children" and your choice of a third.
Look at that Computer Black Box proposed. That's the attempt at a Grand Slam. Who knows what a Black Box records.
I know now what 2012 is, i
Re: (Score:3)
I mostly agree here, except for your "people didn't have rights until 200 years ago." The debate on what were rights of citizens goes back beyond classical times. Most societies in human history have concepts of rights and duties.
That being said, the whole "we can't do anything, it's human nature" argument has always been a crock, and I'm really glad to see someone else fighting it.
Best Part (Score:2)
and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China
I can't even come up with a response to this.
Re: (Score:2)
and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China
I can't even come up with a response to this.
I'm pretty sure there's a quote that basically says that in Soviet Poland (?) There is freedom of speech, but in the US there is freedom after speech.
Re: (Score:2)
"but in the US there is freedom after speech."
Unless you didn't have a state issued permit or said something negative about a business that cost them money (even if true). Or if an emotionally unstable did something emotionally unstable in response to your words.
Re: (Score:2)
"but in the US there is freedom after speech."
Unless you didn't have a state issued permit or said something negative about a business that cost them money (even if true). Or if an emotionally unstable did something emotionally unstable in response to your words.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone [wikipedia.org]
theres your 'free speech' right there, in that cage designated for the purpose.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure you can - just remember to take deep breaths every so often, between bouts of furious laughter. It's all in the diaphragm.
Re: (Score:2)
and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China
I can't even come up with a response to this.
1984.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Best Part (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the truth is that many Chinese citizens want this type of censorship to protect them. Most Chinese are conditioned to think that the harmony of the state takes precedence over all else. It follows that any major source of chaos needs to be stamped out.
I doubt most slashdotters or even most Westerners realize this critical cultural difference. Like it or now, that is the type of thinking you are up against. Conventional wisdom in China says that change is slow, because there are so many people and a lot of cultural inertia.
Change is coming to China, very slowly. All those Chinese with elite foreign education are returning to China, and those returning chafe at restricted internet access and other abridged privileges (unless they're in government).
On another note, in Chinese intellectual circles a common discussion is how to manage the decline of the West. We (Westerners) need to become more sophisticated in how we spar with our friendly adversaries.
well what about there workers rights (Score:2)
There factories are like the very OLD US with no safety, have to pay for on site room and board, working off the clock, and other stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
They don't view censorship as we do, they accept it as a tool the government use for their well-being. Now, if you ask a Chinese if he thinks that protecting corrupt politicians, hiding abuse (economical or physical) of his friends, keeping him in poverty or lying to him about decisions that are killing him (like health issues) is part of his well-being, I'm sure you will hear a different tune. What the chinese elite sees when they go back in China is abuse of government power, however their sol
The Chinese Constitution prevents freedom (Score:2)
Article 54. It is the duty of citizens of the People's Republic of China to safeguard the security, honour and interests of the motherland; they must not commit acts detrimental to the security, honour and interests of the motherland.
Article 55. It is the sacred obligation of every citizen of the People's Republic of China to defend the motherland and resist aggression. It is the honourable duty of citizens of the People's Republic of China to perform military service and join the militia in accordance with
Re: (Score:2)
It's worth noting that "article 55" is true for Finland and Switzerland. Two countries that you could argue to be far more "free" and "democratic" then US. We have universal conscription, and it's largely viewed as an honor to serve your country.
Of course we have a history of having to defend our sovereignty with armed forces rather then using army to project interests of our country outside our borders.
Article 54 on the other hand is present in pretty much any modern state. It's the law against treason, wh
Re: (Score:2)
Sadly we as a society rapidly grew too lazy to continue this extremely healthy practice.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're very wrong. Gaddafi's Libya used militia system, with very weak and useless central army and very powerful and well equipped militias under direct command of each tribal authority.
They were so efficient that they were able to almost win a war even under massive bombardment from NATO, and it took several months of severe bombardment and very disadvantageous terrain (it's impossible to hide heavy weaponry from air power in the desert) for NATO bombing campaign and NATO still needed special forces on th
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, if you look beyond simple propaganda, you'll notice that his country, while a "shit hole" by Western standards was widely envied by all of its neighbors for being prosperous, free and democratic. Now, with the civil war going on, it's more pitied with its vast wealth and functional infrastructure all but destroyed.
I'm not kidding. Look it up. Most of the power in the country wasn't even in Gaddafi's hands - it was in the hands of tribal councils who were largely autonomous down to the point of hav
Re: (Score:2)
Not really, Article 54 goes way beyond what we have in the US. There's all sorts of things that I'm free to do in the US which would probably hurt the honor of America. And there's tons of things that corporate interests do which are detrimental to the interests and security of the homeland.
Re: (Score:2)
Neither Finland nor Switzerland are in NATO. Swiss remained neutral in WW2, while finns were part of the axis, and were subjected to the most fierce land assault of entire world war 2, as well as one of the most one sided wars in history fought to a standstill in winter war.
As it is now, Finland remains the only country in Europe to be a part of Molotov-Ribbentrop that retained its sovereignty both before and after WW2, in spite of Stalin sparing no effort, materiel or cost to annex it. And it's still neutr
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, people are completely free to express themselves. As long as they express the right things.
Re: (Score:2)
I bet that China, unlike the USA, doesn't have special caged and protected 'Free Speech Zones' where protesters can stand, out of harms way, and exercise their right to free speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
China's FSZ equivalent is in the form of a prison or extended house arrest. In the US, you aren't prevented from leaving the FSZ.
Don't misread this. (Score:2)
Don't be mistaken. It's the policy that is open, this says nothing about the Internet. The policy of censorship can openly the non-openness of the Internet.
US Says... (Score:5, Funny)
Freedom of Expression (Score:1)
Open and Clear despotism (Score:2)
"Responding to a U.S. request to explain China's policies regarding blocking U.S. websites, China's foreign ministry said the country's Internet policies have been open and clear. '
It's open and clear that if you speak up against the Chinese government, a Party member, or a western multinational, you will be imprisoned. If you persist, you will die, the family will be billed for the execution(whether by bullet or execution truck), with possible harvesting of organs.
The Chinese government encourages and act
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not racist to point out that a culture has flaws. What I think a lot of Westerners don't understand about China is that it's not just like this government was created in a vacuum; the corruption, lying, cheating and general lack of ethical and moral scruples are facets of modern Chinese culture that also happen to manifest themselves in their government.
Re: (Score:2)
Can they be open about there high speed rail syste (Score:2)
Can they be open about there high speed rail system?
What about the full report on that high-speed train crash?
And additionally... (Score:2)
War is Peace,
Freedom is Slavery!
Their policies *are* open and clear (Score:3, Informative)
Chinas' internet policies *are* open and clear! They are very open with their policies, and very clear with their policies!
Eg: Its very clear that they will block any sites they deem detrimental to the communist party, the state, the army or anything else they deem inappropriate. They are quite open with this policy. They will tell anyone who asks, and will even inform people who didn't ask. Its their *internet* that isn't open or clear, but their *internet policies* are very open and clear. Call it semantics if you like, or even pedantic, but its true. I have every expectation that is exactly what they meant.
More concise translation to follow: (Score:4, Informative)
'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development and we also protect the freedom of expression of citizens in China,'
Translation: 'The Chinese government encourages and actively supports the Internet's development as a State-controlled and censored network and we also protect the State-monitored and scripted freedom of expression of citizens in China,'
'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here, and we will continue to foster an open policy market.'
Translation: 'We welcome foreign companies to invest and develop here as long as they conform to State-mandated censorship policies and anything else we care to dictate to them, and we will continue to foster the illusion of an open policy market.'
..and before any of you decide to moderate me down as a "Troll": Yes, I strongly dislike the Chinese government, and would sooner trust the word of some strung-out meth-head with the DT's than anything they would say -- and furthermore I think you're a fool if you think otherwise.
Re: (Score:2)
In a lot of European countries a copy of Wolfenstein 3-D would get you jail time! (they have to be intolerant, or some people might become intolerant, which cannot be tolerated)
Sure, I can read about Fabul Gong or whatever that dissident group is China
Time to officially classify the thing (Score:3)
This is part of the reason why the internet here in America needs to be officially declared as a utility, much like the telephone, so that companies and the government are unable to filter or censor it, or to give certain companies advantages over others in what travels across it.
Seriously, the internet is in 75+% of homes by now. I bet when the telephone was considered a utility, it was still in far fewer homes than that. What's the difference?
Re: (Score:3)
The voters were still concerned with their own well being.
All the nations are guilty (Score:3)
All the nations engage in censorship. It doesn't justify it, but what's the difference between:
Yes, Clear! (Score:2)
The policy has been very CLEAR that anything against the party are blocked.
Policy is; Access isn't (Score:2)
They are bold, a flash from the past (Score:2)
"In China, we don't have software blocking Internet sites. Sometimes we have trouble accessing them. But that's a different problem." -- Yang Xiaokun, Chinese diplomat, at the 2006 Internet Governance Forum in Athens
They'll lie right to your face and expect you to believe it. They're probably so used to their own people cowering in fear of calling out government lies they actually think we will too.
John Steinbeck would like a word (Score:2)
The Chinese people and government have made the decision that they do not have western style freedoms such as free speech.
Actually, the Chinese people demanded those Human -- not just "Western" -- rights in Tiananmen Square [wikipedia.org] in 1989. The Government sent tanks against them. Best guesses are that at least 3,000 people were murdered.
It concerns me. This is my business. All men are brothers. Those men were my brothers. Those three thousand martyrs in the cause of Freedom are "Americans" in the truest sense and finest traditions of the word. I stand ashamed that MY government has forgotten them and betrayed their sacrifice.
Re: (Score:2)
Why do you worry about 3.000 in China tens of years ago, but not millions dying in Africa so that West and China get their cheap oil and other natural resources? By your admission, all men are brothers, so surely the millions CURRENTLY dying would warrant thousands of times more attention at the very least?
It made an impression (Score:2)
I watched Tiananmen as it happened, so yes, it made an impression. As for the others, you'd see a radically different world if I were in charge. :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Unless you're willing to support wholesale 'regime change' across the continent, stop pretending you've got any moral cachet.
Re: (Score:2)
Would you tell us your name?
Just a memorized excuse to apologize for China (Score:2)
That excuse has been replayed so many times that it has to be written down as an official excuse of the PRC.
Likewise with China and the US. Since China hasnt left the US alone (Lenovo acquisition, CNOOC attempted acquisition, various attempts to buy influence with the Chamber of Commerce), attacks on China are fair game.
Re: (Score:2)
The issue is that there's almost 1.5 billion of them. About 1/6 of entire planet's population. If they adapt a more sociologically efficient totalitarian system, they will outcompete us (as in West), significantly increasing the risk of us eventually switching to totalitarian system ourselves to be able to compete better.
Re: (Score:2)
Before an apologist comes in:
This applies if you attempt to form a Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street gathering.
This applies if you use the law against a multinational where you have overwhelming evidence that you will win.
This applies if you look at a Party official the wrong way.
Re: (Score:2)
Why does the Chinese government need to make internet access open for US companies?
Because China bitched and moaned until the WTO made them a member, being a member of the WTO means your bound by WTO rules.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe they thought it was a euphemism for a trouser snake and were offended that non Chinese had what could be termed a python in their pants?