RealNetworks Sues Dutch Webmaster Over Hyperlink To Freeware 297
An anonymous reader writes "In the ever lasting contest for the most idiotic lawsuit, RealNetworks has sued a Dutch man for posting a link to a competing freeware program that allegedly infringes on RealNetworks' intellectual property. The company also secretly obtained a court order that resulted in confiscation of all computers belonging to the man and his family. The 26-year-old has already incurred over €66,000 in legal fees and if he loses the case, he's facing €210,000 in fines. Where are the Anonymous when you need them?"
looses (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:looses (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah what a looser!
Re:looses (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
God damn it will you PLEASE draw the obvious conclusion and realise the poster most likely not a native speaker?
Most likely was a native speaker. Nobody who actually had to go to school and work hard to learn English would get caught making that kind of stupid mistake.
Re: (Score:3)
Fail [reference.com]
Re: (Score:2)
If it's a communication site, instant, free form or whatever, then "communication" is important to it. If you're going to write garbage that is confusing or senseless, then you are not "communicating". You are failing at communicating. The fact that you see other's problem about this as "pedantic crap" just demonstrates that you are also totally failing to understand communication from people. Does it not worry you that you are misunderstanding so much that goes on here? Are you not concerned that no
Re: (Score:2)
Seems to have worked!
Bill
Biggest shock in this story ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Biggest shock in this story ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. The "real" funny part is that Real killed themselves by turning their product into a PC-suffocating piece of bloatware. Real Alternative was a direct response to that exact bloat. I'd be laughing if it weren't so sad for the defendant.
It's sad how failed companies refuse to go down quietly, instead they go legal supernova.
Even their paying customers get bloat! (Score:5, Informative)
Now, this dates back /years/ ago but at some point I was really happy with the RealPlayer that I decided to license it. It was simply awesome; I started it up and could view just about anything. From US news broadcasts to Japanese TV series right down to stuff from India and Germany. (this was "pre-Youtube" time so to speak).
Then other solutions emerged (and my interest slowly waned) but guess what? Next time I started the app. (a few years later) I was greeted with "you should upgrade!", which I didn't do. Why? I was happy with the way it was.
Add another few months and this time I wasn't able to run the program anymore period. "You need to upgrade" was all which was said, of course without any options for a real upgrade. I could pick another "free" player and that was basically it. My paid for enhancements were gone. Heck; my whole player was gone.
DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT... Just set your disdain aside for a moment and look at the realplayer product page [real.com]. Question: do you see anything there which hints at upgrade options for existing users ? Well, there aren't any.
Realplayer was the best learning experience for me (and all in all not /that/ expensive fortunately) to never buy anything from Real networks again.
Re: (Score:2)
One time I bought a shareware windows cd player app because it had the best CDDB support. Then it got merged into some piece of shit media player with a shit interface.
What I took away was NEVER to buy software if you can avoid it, because they will surely fuck it up.
Now I only buy really cheap software, like games from GOG on sale. Don't buy any software you can't afford to have be a waste of money.
Re: (Score:3)
There WAS an upgrade policy. I was upgraded. but the whole nature of the program had changed (to a gigantic piece of shit) and I no longer wanted it. Meanwhile operating systems change under programs due to updates and sometimes break them.
This is just another reason why Free and Open software is superior for the user, and why we should spend our money supporting it instead of buying commercial, proprietary, closed-source software.
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly, until I saw this, I thought they were long dead. They certainly haven't done anything relevant for a long time.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Biggest shock in this story ... (Score:4, Informative)
They are probably making lots of money from bored housewifes playing "casual" games -- not from the Real software that was once their core product.
They sued Microsoft ages ago, settled in 2005 for 76mln and bought several online gaming sites from the cash.
Microsoft and RealNetworks Resolve Antitrust Case [microsoft.com]
Gamehouse [realnetworks.com]
Re:Biggest shock in this story ... (Score:5, Funny)
DNS? (Score:2)
I don't get the reference to DNS. If a web page has a link on it, what does it's existence have to do with DNS?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
bit odd, but plausible, I suppose
thanks
Heh (Score:2)
How ironic is it that this post ends by asking where anonymous is when you need him / them, and starts with 'an anonymous reader writes'?
Re: (Score:2)
I'd say it's about a 6 on the irony scale*.
*The Irony scale can be defined as starting at 0 with Alanis Morissette's song "Isn't it Ironic" and ending at 10 with Alanis Morissette's song "Isn't it Ironic"
Re: (Score:2)
Be thankful that Spinal Tap never released a cover of that song.
Streisand effect? (Score:5, Informative)
Real Alternative [free-codecs.com].
Re:Streisand effect? (Score:5, Funny)
Real Alternative [free-codecs.com].
Damn'd. Now RealNetworks will confiscate all the /. servers. See what have you done?
Re:Streisand effect? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not only that, apparently they'd have the power to confiscate all the desktop and laptop computers of Slashdot editors' families as well if interpret this precedent correctly. To me, this is the most disturbing part of the entire thing. There is no way all of their computers are connected in any meaningful way to the site that this guy ran. Also, it's apparently enough to be related to an alleged copyright infringer in order for them to come and take your stuff away.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If I were the guy... (Score:4, Funny)
I would answer each legal document starting with 20 or 50 pages blank with a "buffering" in the middle.... and throw some in the middle too.
I'd paste random ads over the documents which make utterly impossible to see what is written while I'm at it.
Horse. Stable door. Bolted. (Score:2)
did anyone read TFA? (Score:2)
I don't get, how is DNS involved in this?
However, Edskes wasn’t hosting the software, but just redirected to other sites for the actual download. The complaint turned out to be based on a hyperlink to the software.
so far so good: he linked to some software, one can argue if this is illegal - but anyway.
RealNetworks claims Edskes failed to remove the link to the software, and the reference in the DNS directories existed after February 12, 2010. However, the hosting provider checked backups and confirmed the removal of the link.
WTF? either the complaint is based on hyperlinks or DNS redirects (did he use different subdomains for the codec packs?). it shouldn't be too hard to write one stringent and logical artical about this case.
a very relevant quote (Score:2)
I'm not sure if Slashdot is doing a Google and providing context relevant quotes or it was just pure chance, but the quote at the bottem of my page today sure seems relevant to this story and the state of Real networks - " For certain people, after fifty, litigation takes the place of sex. -- Gore Vidal"
Removing all hyperlinks from private website (Score:4, Interesting)
Most surprising part of the story (Score:2)
... is that Real still exists as a company.
How is that even possible?! I thought we'd seen the last of them years ago; not even the most pathetic company trying to make a web presence seems to think them relevant enough to use.
Oh right, I guess that's why they've switched into lawsuit mode - it's easier than innovating.
Re: (Score:2)
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, sue.
RealAlternative is actually copyright infringement (Score:5, Interesting)
The article title is a bit disingenuous. RealAlternative is NOT freeware. It is simply Real's codecs, repackaged without the adware crap and player software. Now on the scale of copyright infringement this is pretty insignificant, but the codecs are still Real's property and it is their prerogative to decide the terms under which the software is distributed. I'm pretty sure the terms forbid repackaging and redistribution of the codecs.
On the other hand, it's also incredulous that linking is deemed illegal. That's just bullshit. They should go after whoever distributed the repackaged codecs, not people who link to said site.
Actually, I'm not sure RealAlternative is even needed anymore. VLC/ffdshow/ffmpeg support all the RealVideo codecs, and also RealAudio with the single exception of the SIPR codec.
Sounds fishy ... (Score:2)
I Remember RealNetworks (Score:3, Funny)
Filehippo links and hosts to it (Score:2)
http://filehippo.com/software/multimedia/ [filehippo.com]
Real Alternative, Quicktime alternative, K-Lite Codec Pack, you name it.
They're still alive? (Score:2)
Wait, they're still alive? How come?
Now the problem is: this kind of thing calls for a boycott, but, um... what one could possibly boycott that RealNetwork makes or offers that one would otherwise want or even have to use?
The Dutch legal system (Score:2)
After the way the Dutch handled Apple's case against Samsung, I am not surprised at the way they're treating this guy. Dutch legal system sucking US legal cock much?
department translation: rent-seeking behavior (Score:2)
Google Translate reports "verhuur-zoekend-gedrag" as Dutch for "rent-seeking behavior".
HTTP referrer (Score:2)
if you have problems with deep-linking to downloads on you web page, a simple script can solve it. Not using this method is kind of agreeing to deep-linking.
On the other hand, its not good style to do it like this.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Nah we'll blame Realnetworks. They have dodgy practices.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:4, Insightful)
"Blame US laws, not RealNetworks." -> Since this took place in The Netherlands, I'd rather blame Dutch laws.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Please do not interrupt our ongoing "F* the US" circle-jerk.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
You can even say "fuck" like a child if you wish.
Re: (Score:2)
Fuck like a child if you wish.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You can even say "fuck" like a child if you wish.
Really?!
fuuuuck. fucky fucky fuck fuck poop.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Funny)
You can even say "fuck" like a child if you wish.
Really?! fuuuuck. fucky fucky fuck fuck poop.
You had to bring German porn into it, didn't you?
Re: (Score:2)
I beg your pardon, since when is fsck spelled like fuck? This is /., you know...
Re: (Score:2)
Does it break patents and copyright in the Netherlands?
if not, RealNetworks has no grounds for the suit.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:4, Informative)
Does it break patents and copyright in the Netherlands?
No. It can't break patents in the Netherlands, because there is no such thing as software patents in the Netherlands.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In related news, Real Doll inc. have hired a crack legal team just in case.
Re: (Score:3)
In related news, Real Doll inc. have hired a crack legal team just in case.
I'm confused... couldn't they just build one? Surely it'd be cheaper.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, except the Real Alternative package is NOT actually freeware, but basically distributes the *actual* Real Player DLLs that it uses to decode with a wrapper. That's pretty clearly a copyright infringement (criminal one in fact, as it was willful and widely distributed, which generally counts as "commercial").
Real Networks IMO is a total bottom feeder company and I'd personally never install their software, but one thing I hate more than d-bag companies like Real is blatant misinformation, and this article is full of it...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I think you were the first person even to suggest the fact that the package copied Real's DLLs - everyone else just assumed it was an open source implementation like ffmpeg. That makes it pretty misleading information in my opinion...
But anyway, this wasn't really even about that obviously infringing software - it was about some guy who linked to it, where it's not even clear he didn't take down his link after asked. I hope the guy hires an even more expensive lawyer and then makes Real pay for him
Re: (Score:3)
But anyway, this wasn't really even about that obviously infringing software
Which is why I don't think the article was being misleading -- they just didn't focus on that aspect at all since it wasn't relevant to the story. In my view, it's the developer of the software who misled because he is the one who released it as "freeware" in the first place, not the poor bastard caught linking to it. Anyway, let's just agree to disagree...
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Insightful)
If justice is so obviously corrupted, it is no longer justice. And people will go back to doing what they were doing before there was a functioning justice system in place.
Re: (Score:2)
Does RealNetworks own the word "Real"?
I'd say that if they do that's real stupid ... oh wait!
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Insightful)
Putting aside for the moment that it would be Dutch law in question here, NO. Just because Real's actions are not explicitly illegal, that doesn't get them off the ethical hook. They are dirty bastards and their attack lawyers need a public flogging.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:4, Insightful)
My gut feeling is Real will loose this (and they should), and in the Netherlands this means REAL will most likely have to cough up the the legal fees for this bloke.
Re:"competing freeware program" (Score:5, Insightful)
They may well have thought that, but there is a duty to perform basic fact checking AND attempt an amicable resolution before taking anything to court. If they had done that, they could have saved a great deal of embarrassment and avoided creating a lot of difficulty for Edskes. They clearly decided to sue first and ask questions later. In doing that, they demonstrated a callous disregard for everyone but themselves.
They should be forced to pay a lot more than just the legal fees in compensation since the man's computers have all been seized without just cause. I don't know what Dutch law does about that.
Re: (Score:2)
suggests Real initially assumed the site was actively distributing the software.
How stupid can you get? Nobody thought about checking the link the download was coming from?
Re: (Score:2)
And they will probably find a way to duck from the fees leaving the bloke and court system on their own.
Re: (Score:2)
Blame US laws, not RealNetworks.
Why should US laws apply to the Netherlands?
Re: (Score:2)
Because them there pansy clog-weariers ain't got no goshdarn nukes.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, sure. I'll blame the laws (in whatever country). But I'll also blame the people who use those laws against others.
Re: (Score:3)
I've been blaming RealNetworks and their shitty product even back when I was using AOL (!). How that company still exists is beyond me.
real are still alive the fuckers? (Score:2)
Poo to those guys, the law sucks plain sucks ass.
So a little man has to suffer with a yearly salary loss, loss of computers (thank god new ones are cheap, $99 tablets).
I want to see a judge make a ruling for once taking *ALL* computers away from a corporate entity even though staff had nothing to do with and it might cost the company millions per day in losses.
If you destroy small peoples lives, then fuck it, who cares if you destroy multi corporations too.
1:1 is fair.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, except for current events relating to vigilante action against corporations that harass people and draw the ire of a large group of reasonably tech savvy people with something to prove. Other than that, totally unrelated.
Re: (Score:3)
Sounds like something someone fed up with all the legal shenanigans might say if they have given up hope of any real civil law reform.
Sadly, that's not at all an unreasonable position these days.
Re: (Score:2)
People used to talk to beer?
It wasn't that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
It worked on my 386 back in the day. It was the first live audio stream I ever heard on my computer.
They went downhill from there. Their nice tidy player got rewritten and then the whole thing went spammy.
Re: (Score:3)
In the Netherlands, all national government websites offer their video's in RealVideo as a fallback for QuickTime, which is itself a fallback for Windows Media Player, which is a fallback for Flash.
Re: (Score:2)
Your nick seems dutch enough, so i'll assume you are a fellow dutchman, but seriously? I can't even remember seeing a video on a govt website...
And OMG triple fallback, now i feel even worse about paying taxes
Re: (Score:2)
Well, triple fallback would be something I enjoy seeing in a government... if it wasn't only for propaganda drivel but actually important matters.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Sometimes linking should be illegal ... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, by your own logic, when you mention to your friend to "take care" around that drug den down the road, you should be put in jail for aiding and abetting the drug trade. We see links to goatse here all the time. The image itself is morally wrong, but the links are not. *IF* Real Alternative is in fact breaking the law then Real Alternative should be held accountable - Not some poor schmuck who simply says "look at this" via a link.
What you are advocating is akin to thought crime. If you don't conform and think the way "we" tell you too, you should be punished. The problem is just who gets to decide what is "right". In every single instance or situation. What happens when this so called "right" does not align with your own personal views? Do you bend over and let them spank you until you see the light? Sorry, but I'm sure glad I don't live in your world and can make up my own mind what links I'll visit, what software I'll install, or even what I'll have for lunch today.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Sometimes linking should be illegal ... (Score:5, Insightful)
But said software isn't illegal in Europe, Real Networks are suing a European over alleged patent rights, those patents aren't valid in Europe.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Should there be standards regarding when linking to illegal content is prosecuted? Certainly.
Well, that's your opinion. Not everyone agrees.
Re:Sometimes linking should be illegal ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you link to a web page that contains illegal content, you are abetting in a crime.
This is a fair suggestion, but in this case nothing has been proven to be illegal about this content. RealNetworks claim patent infringement, but has this been proven in a court of law? Until it has, how is anyone supposed to know if it's illegal or not? If I lay claim to patents on iPods, does that mean the entire internet has to sit up, take notice, and stop linking to Apple's website?
Besides that, it is unreasonable to demand that every website owner to be fully acquainted to the legal status of the software they may link to. If it appears to be genuine freeware, how are they supposed to know?
Lastly, and this really should be taken into consideration; RealNetworks were giving their software away for free, with an entirely reasonable business model financed in other ways. All they had to do was ensure their end-users liked it and found it useful. But instead they turned it into a sucky, monstrously bloated, intrusive piece of crap that people (and their computers) hated. They only have themselves to blame if users sought out an alternative.
Re: (Score:2)
If you link to a web page that contains illegal content, you are abetting in a crime.
Lastly, and this really should be taken into consideration; RealNetworks were giving their software away for free, with an entirely reasonable business model financed in other ways. All they had to do was ensure their end-users liked it and found it useful. But instead they turned it into a sucky, monstrously bloated, intrusive piece of crap that people (and their computers) hated. They only have themselves to blame if users sought out an alternative.
The reality of the legal system is that your opinion of RealNetworks business model has nothing to do with the legal status of anything. If the judge feels that way, he may let it sway him within his range of legal options, but he still should not let it decide the legality / illegality of an action.
Re: (Score:2)
Should there be standards regarding when linking to illegal content is prosecuted? Certainly.
Absolutely. My recommendation would be never.
Re: (Score:3)
Fuzzy middle ground my ass, it's freeware developed from the ground up and he didn't even make it, he merely linked to it.
I assume by "freeware developed from the ground up" you mean "an installer and a few download utilities plus a packaged install of Media Player Classic packaged alongside the codec files right out of Real's own installation package" which is what Real Alternative really is/was - immensely useful for the end-user, but a legal minefield waiting to happen by using Real's own codec files in there.
Re: (Score:2)
Does he have a paypal account?
If someone posted details of one here would you trust it anyway?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I bet you get shitloads of visits, but no conversions. And you make a name for yourself as a spammer.
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't RealNetworks know about the Streisand Effect?
I doubt RealNetworks care about that. Nobody uses real media any more anyway.
I didn't know about the Real Alternative until this case got filed, and now I've just downloaded Real Alternative and installed it on two PC's. YES! No more stupid RealNetworks bullshit to put up with. It is sad the Dutch webmaster had to be sued, but the rest of the world benefits. I guess in a backwards way, Thank You RealNetworks, for bringing this to my attention.
Oh, one person still uses it? I guess RealNetworks just lost their last customer then...