Student Suspended For Posting On YouTube 375
An anonymous reader writes "A Canadian student has been suspended from school and had the police called on him due to satirical animations that he posted to YouTube. Jack Christie, a 12th-grade student at the Donald A. Wilson Secondary School in Whitby, Ontario, Canada, created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
Not funny (Score:2)
While I agree with Jack Christie that it's ridiculous that he is suspended for posting some videos on YouTube, I don't like the video featured in the article at all. Juvenile nonsense. Grow up Jack.
Re:Not funny (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering he's not 18 yet, he isn't out of place if he's acting as juvenile.. as he is by definition of his age.
You're getting your panties in a twist in the same way as the board is.
His mature and level headed reply (Score:4, Insightful)
He sounds very mature and level headed in his reply to the school via this youtube video, where he says "Jack Christie Addresses the Board"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnW2_i0Q_i4
He also shows talent in writing and his style is something like South Park. The guy could have a career in the animation industry if he carries on with this kind of work. Isn't that what schools should be encouraging?! ... WTF is his tyrannical school for, if its not preparing him for a career!
Re:His mature and level headed reply (Score:4, Insightful)
Forcing conformity and creating social pressure groups, while quietly feeding the students nationalist propaganda?
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The reply is simply awesome. Not only is he smart but he delivers his point with comedic style and "shock value" as well.
Re:His mature and level headed reply (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know about Canada, but down here in the US the schools' primary purpose seems to be removal of all traces of curiosity and creativity. Ever notice that when budgets get cut, the first things to go are art and music, but never sports?
Re:His mature and level headed reply (Score:4, Insightful)
Sports bring in the bucks. Segmented academics (i.e. gifted/avg/remedial) costs money, art costs money, band costs money (though sometimes brings in money). This is real life, I don't agree with it, but it's good preparation.
Also down here in the US, our employers can suspend/terminate our employment for very similar reasons if our names are associated with them somehow. My former employer was well known for terminating employees for any number of out of work/no-work-related offsenses such as: getting in a bar brawl at the local titty bar (purportedly regarding one man banging the other man's wife), publishing some anti-Chinese government screed after having been sent there for 6 months by said employer, and expressing displeasure at the termination of another employee for recreational marijuana use off-campus and after hours.
I think the kid is getting a taste of what being an adult is like, and I hope he likes it as poorly as we do. I don't know what legal protections are offered in Canada for this sort of thing, but this is what freedom of speech really means, at least down here. It's free assuming you can afford it.
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have you.... actually watched the videos at all?
they aren't happy slapping videos.
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If the videos contained death threats or some such then talking about teenagers thinking they were immune to consequences would make sense.
These though are just some slightly crappy absurdist humor.
There's nothing particularly offensive or hateful in them unless you happen to care a great deal about joe lieberman.
You do know that most teenagers think happy slapping videos are retarded too right?
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No.
18 is an adult in most places. In society today we seem to encourage people to stretch out their teen yeas far past where they should. So no being 18 is not an excuse he is an adult by my standands. I to think the content is self indulgent mindless crap typical of a self righteous kid. The thing that the ACs don't get is that the quality of the content is not the issue. It could be of him wearing a dress and singing O'Canada while using Helium while smacking himself with a trout for all I care. It is the
Re:Not funny (Score:4, Insightful)
What changes magically in a human being in those few nanoseconds before and after the 18th birthday? That's something nobody ever managed to explain to me sensibly.
We want to put a discrete point in time on something that is a gradual process spanning years. I know people who were responsible and mature before they were 14, and others who might have a chance to reach it should they live to 40. And while both are certainly the extremes, 18 will at best be the median age people mature at.
And since we put so much emphasis on this special quality "maturity", and so many laws, regulations, duties and privileges hang on it, from voting to driving to sex and criminal offenses, simply doing a "one size fits all" is most certainly going to end up with a lot of wrong decisions.
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Nothing changes physically, but what does change is the addition of reponsibility.
As to the story I am not really seeing what would get him suspended? Are we talking about righteous style teachers that can't take things with a laugh? Also, why go so far as to involve the police?
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That's right, but he should make better videos ;)
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Honestly, while I've visited Canada I've never lived there. However, being from the uptight US midwest, I have to say the part that would have bothered most schools where I'm from more than anything is the offer of cocaine to school children near the end of the video.
BTW, while everyone is comparing it to South Park, the time-setting exposition in the titles seems much more inspired by the opening sequence of Aqua Teen Hunger Force the Movie to me, with equally confusing opening titles.
Re:Not funny (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually I would say it is offensive mindless crap. But then so is much of what is on YouTube and frankly Slashdot. Sorry but the people that did this should be dismissed. I don't know how they thought that they could get away with punishing a student for putting this on YouTube. If the goal was for people to not see it they failed completely. The student is now a hero and more people will now see this crap than ever. If was to protect the school that was also a failure. But then I still don't know how that school district got away with spying on those kids with their laptops! No jail time and no mass dismissal in that case so I guess anything is possible. I hope Canadians all over the country protest this action. Too bad that they will be fighting for crap like this video but in this case it really is the principle that matters and not the actual content.
It's super effective! (Score:5, Funny)
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schools, like governments, big business and other bad guys, only understand one thing. POWER AND FORCE.
they are thugs and they only understand thug language. hit them with a painful lawsuit and they'll 'learn'.
thugs won't learn any other way; their way is that of the street or violence (physical or economic). so throw some econ hardship their way. perhaps they'll think twice next time.
the same goes for suing your local police when they step out of line. a nice heavy lawsuit can change a lot of things (
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"Funny" is in the mind of the beholder and is completely subjective. Lots of folks think Monty Python is mindless garbage, I think it's hilarious. But whether or not one thinks it's funny or garbage is completely beside the point. The point is, this kid was denied his rights, and that's just plain wrong.
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Sorry but the people that did this should be dismissed
Dismissed? They should be jailed for abuse of power, harassment, etc.
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I'm 59 and it got a couple of chuckles out of me. We'll get off your lawn, sir. How are those new knees holding out?
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I don't like the video either. I think it blows. But - hey - I think a lot of things are equally stupid, juvenile, and generally lacking in taste. Want some examples? Well, you could start with a google of "rap", or almost any celebrity's name, or "blockbuster", or "action movie". Jack Christie's little video is mildly offensive to my sensibilities, but I can find more offensive material at any theater for which people pay good money.
The school is most definitely overstepping what limited authority i
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does whether or not you like it have anything to do with the story, his rights, or what the school board did?
I guess I just don't understand what contribution your opinion concerning the quality of the video has for this discussion. I doubt anyone here was dying to know what the might tsa thought about the video. And as you so adroitly pointed out, how good or bad the video is has no bearing on his right to post it.
I am actually being serious here. There really is no need for you to comment on it. There
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Or maybe certain people just have a different sense of humor than you. It is, after all, opinionated.
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Happens every time (Score:5, Insightful)
In my opinion, the only time a school should have the ability to initiate disciplinary action for an act committed off school premises should be after trial and conviction of a crime. Free speech protections often don't apply in schools (don't get me started on that), but a school has absolutely no right to restrict a student's speech off school grounds, and this would be aptly enforced by requiring disciplinary sanctions for off ground behavior be the result of a conviction in a court of law. This school would get laughed at if they even mentioned prosecution of this student for this behavior to a DA, so there's no reason they should be allowed to do this.
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Schools in North America at least--if not everywhere in the West--seem to think that their disciplinary powers extend to any actions committed by students anywhere during their years of attendance. .
I remember seeing this young person tossing stones near a car, and this old guy came and shouted with him, demanded to know what school he attended and went off to complain to the headmaster.
I think its the idea that since you're spending most of your day at school, they're in charge of making you a 'good person' and not just imparting knowledge. At lower levels anyway.
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And that headmaster should have shown the man the door and tell him to ask for the youngster's parents' names next time, since it's neither his responsibility nor his prerogative to dictate what he can or cannot do outside the school area.
A school has no business imparting "values". That's what parents are here for.
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Schools in North America at least--if not everywhere in the West
Dude. Canada. RTFA.
Besides, if TFA were about a US school, the kid would be from Texas and the video about Charles Darwin.
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Dude. Canada. RTFA.
Yes, that's why he said "North America". Canada is in North America, last I checked.
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heh, that's the problem with "americans". They've been calling themselves "americans" for so long they no longer remember it's a whole frigging continent.
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actually if you want to be precise its like 2.5 continents
(North South and if you want to "Central" which is actually part of North)
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I am so glad I was born in the 70's and graduated in the early 90's. There is no way I could have made it through the fascist regime that is modern government education.
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By that logic we should all be medicated and brainwashed to all behave exactly the same, because of the minuscule risk that someone someday might do something to someone that isn't NORMAL.
Please count the number of school shootings in the past twenty years in America and compare it to the number of children/young adults who have attended an institute of education during that time frame. I'm sure you'll find that children suffer far greater risks in life than another child snapping and shooting up his school
Oh, come on. (Score:5, Informative)
Satire means you have no respect for authority.
Having no respect for authority means you have no respect for the police.
Having no respect for the police means you have no respect for their guns.
Having no respect for guns means you place no value on your own life.
If you place no value on your own life, why place a value on other people's lifes?
And since you value neither your own life nor that of anyone else you're practically guaranteed to commit at least a murder-suicide.
Satirists should be shot and then carpet-bombed for the safety of us all.
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School shootings are very serious and the school staff should be proud of properly preventing it.
Did they? I didn't know that a symptom of a lunatic assassin was posting cartoons on youtube. Can you point me to previous examples of this? Where can i find cartoons made by lunatic assassins? I want to be able to recognize them in the future.
Dilbert commentary (Score:2)
Dilbert's take on Internet logic [dilbert.com]
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"Properly preventing it"?
Let's see. We have now created a young person who is apparently fairly intelligent, who feels he has been wronged (maybe "once again") by his school and who has a lot of spare time to "think" now.
I dunno, is it me or is that how a lot of school shootings began? By kicking the person out that later went on a killing spree?
Fuck everything about this (Score:5, Insightful)
I am ashamed of my country when I can read that, and it isn't followed by "The staff members were promptly fired". Believe it or not, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies even to high school kids, and no, your petty little school rules do not trump those Rights.
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Looks like at least one more person to add to the list of people who should be fired!
Re:Fuck everything about this (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Fuck everything about this (Score:4)
In this instance, the "kid" is 18. He is an adult in the eyes of the law. That is what makes this extra messed up. They can't even use the "he has limited rights because he is a minor" argument.
He is old enough to sign contracts, join the military, and vote. Just not old enough to express himself, apparently.
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Unless I'm remembering my YCJA incorrectly at 18 he's still a kid in the eye of the law until he turns 19. In Canada 12-18 you're considered a child under the law. At 12 the mens rea fairy hits you in the head and you get the magic ability to tell right from wrong. At 19 you graduate from kiddie sentences to adult ones.
Sure at 18 he can sign contracts, join the military and vote. But the law doesn't follow that. Actually in Canada you can join the military at 14 with parental permission, and sign contr
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Seems like some of those school administrators spent their winter holidays in Florida and got infected. I thought we had cornered the market on this kind of stupidity.
1) We're talking about high school students here, not elementary or middle school. Even more-so, the student is 18, and is therefore not a minor under the law. Seems like the teachers at this school are doing their job encouraging critical thinking, but the administrators have a completely reversed agenda.
2) We're talking about (sometimes crud
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Dunno about kids these days, but in my days his car would have been egged and TPed so badly...
Right... (Score:5, Interesting)
The summery says: "Created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
The video says: "This was done up back in November of 2010, for an economics course project."
So I don't think its as independent from school as this summary wants to make you believe.
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I dunno, if you presented something like that as part of your project, then your school has a right to 'butt in' of sorts.
I don't think that the headmaster was just browsing youtube, found this channel and decided to pick on someone.
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This could even be done for school purposes.. I don't remember there being some sort of copyright agreement between me and my high school that gave the school special rights to my essays. What difference does it make if it's done as homework?
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If it was homework, the school has a right to give it a low score and nothing else. And someone earlier mentioned "moral tone". The schools shouldn't be trying to teach morality, that's up to the parents. Some people think drinking is immoral, some people think there's nothing wrong with adultery. The school has no right shove its morals down your kids' throats -- that's YOUR job.
No the summary can be correct (Score:2)
Re:Right... (Score:5, Informative)
The summery says: "Created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
The video says: "This was done up back in November of 2010, for an economics course project."
So I don't think its as independent from school as this summary wants to make you believe.
That doesn't mean the school owns them however, so they have no right to threaten him with calling the police over the videos if he didn't take them down, which the same article tells you they did (emphasis added):
He said his teachers had no problem with the content – one even lent his voice to an animation – and he didn’t get in trouble until he uploaded the videos to YouTube. He was swiftly given a one-day suspension. A few days later, his principal laid out an ultimatum: Take the videos down or the police would be called. He refused to budge.
And since they didn't have an issue with them when he did them for the class project (and a teacher even participated in them), they're going to have serious trouble trying to get anyone to believe they only felt like they were a threat to the school's moral values after they were put on YouTube. If they were truly a threat they should have done something when he made them for the class project.
So that has no bearing on the case. All the signs are that something in one (or more) of the videos made fun of the school principal and he's got a burr up his ass over it and is punishing the kid for refusing to bow to his perceived authority. (And given all the circumstances, I seriously doubt the school's going to win here. Their not doing anything when he presented them for the class project is going to damage any case they might have had irreparably. The fact that a teacher participated actively in one video will destroy any remaining chance they might have had.)
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The summery says: "Created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
The video says: "This was done up back in November of 2010, for an economics course project."
So I don't think its as independent from school as this summary wants to make you believe.
That doesn't mean the school owns them however, so they have no right to threaten him with calling the police over the videos if he didn't take them down, which the same article tells you they did
It's not just the summary that's inconsistent, but the article as well. What this points to for me is that the article is garbage with respect to actually getting facts on the issue. Nothing about this makes any sense. I watched the video linked in TFA. Personally, I don't see why a school would demand that it get taken down. I didn't see any mention of the school (but it's possible I missed it). But, some schools are staffed by jerks. It's possible they went overboard.
The really weird thing is that
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So the worst they could legally do is give him and F for it. At least if the video does not match the specs given, else he should be able to appeal it.
Unless something seriously changed since I went to school, you can't really get kicked out for doing your homework.
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How can you draw a picture of a principle? Did you mean "principal"? This story is, after all, about a principal seemingly without principles.
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And why should he not be allowed to upload it on YouTube?
What kind of punishment is a "suspension"? (Score:2)
I still can't wrap my mind around the concept of "suspension" as a punishment for someone attending a public school. First and foremost, wouldn't truant student be "suspending" himself? Second, if a student missed any essential classes because he is suspended, wouldn't it make all subsequent classes pointless because student won't be able to understand them (or, worse, misleading because student will misunderstand them)?
Re:What kind of punishment is a "suspension"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, if a student missed any essential classes because he is suspended, wouldn't it make all subsequent classes pointless because student won't be able to understand them (or, worse, misleading because student will misunderstand them)?
Right, so in order to combat this, a student has to either:
a) Work extra hard in his free time to study the topic enough to understand them
b) Fail miserably and have to resit/restudy or waste a year.
Both of which are punishments.
Its also rather symbolic. Kinda like being "Suspended from work with pay". Its meant to warn you that you might end up permanently like that.
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Permanently suspended from work with pay doesn't sound too bad.
It happens all the time, it's so common they have a special word for that: "retirement".
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Though used as a punishment, it doesn't really feel like one for the student who gets time to sit at home and play computer games. It's used as a way to get rid of unruly students who disrupt the teaching or pose a risk of violence to others, and as a way to make sure the parent knows very well just how much trouble that pupil is in.
Some schools nowadays use in-school suspension. The student is sent to a different facility and has to spend the day studying. No gaming, no reading books for fun, it's actual punishment.
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Undoing some mods to reply, but c'est la vie.
I thought being forced to go somewhere and spend time around people who were routinely abusive towards me was punishment.
Seriously. I'm almost 30. Some scars never heal, I guess. At least I didn't go through with killing myself.
I've been in and out of talk therapy since I got away from that torture, but talk therapy isn't worth a damn.
Yeah, I know, someone's going to call me a pussy for posting this. I don't care. Bullying is a problem. For me, bul
I hate this summary (Score:5, Insightful)
The question should not be if he did it in his free time, off campus, but if it was related to the school.
I can imagine a lot of things which one can do "during my free time" and "off campus" which should get you fired from school, even if there is no crime which can be persecuted.
For example: contacting or ridiculing teachers in an inappropriate way (yes, these are employees and they have rights), the same for students (nobody should be forced to sit besides somebody bullying him at facebook, and if school is the primary contact for this person suspension is the right thing to do).
All the news messages like "xzy got ... for doing ... on facebook" withou specifying what the content of ... was are as stupid as saying "he got in jail for swinging a piece of wood through the air", which may be technically correct, but could also be a baseball bat hitting the face of somebody after swinging through the air.
Please dear media: separate means, motivations, tools, and fact of crime more carefully. It really does not matter today if you write somebody an insulting letter which you put up 1000 times in you town to lampposts or post an insulting video.
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they sound like a bunch of authoritarian thugs and I see absolutely no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.
And that is exactly how they are presented. You don't known the wording for the petition in question, it could very well be inappropriate.
That said, if the School weren't out of line, they should have agreed to an interview.
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Not necessarily. Giving an interview in a situation where you may enter a legal fight may be seen inappropriate by the court, especially if there is a special student-school relationship involved.
Telling their reasoning behind the suspension may easily do him more damage than the suspension itself. If he for example referred to the video when threatening other students etc..
Also it could easily violate the rights of the teachers involved.
And one important point to state: "Free speech" means you may say what
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THAT is the actual outrage. As soon as the organization ceases to be utterly pointless, the members get threatened to stop being useful.
It's a bit like unions here, now that I think about it...
A comics early work usually sucks (Score:4, Funny)
Andy Sanberg said on the nerdist podcast. Film school is where you get out all your bad ideas. so we shouldn't care whether its funny, the only reason we're even watching his stuff is the principal hasn't heard of the Streisand effect
Awful attitude (Score:2)
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Not available in your country (Score:2)
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Police? (Score:2)
They called the police FOR WHAT???
Isn't that a gross abuse of power?
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http://www.vancouversun.com/news/used+unmitigated+gall+court+jail+exec/4885987/story.html [vancouversun.com]
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No, no, you got it all wrong. They called The Police, you know, Sting.
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Some whirlwind is going on. (Score:2)
If the reader's comments on the article are any indication, this suspension grows out to be a mayor PR disaster for school and school board. Not a single positive remark for the decision, as far as I can tell. Maybe next time they will be more careful.
As the latin saying goes: HOMO SAPIENS NON URINAT IN VENTUM.
Punishment is too lenient. (Score:2)
There is no OS but Linux.
Idiot school administration (Score:2)
So a kid that attends your school made an offensive video rife with juvenile humour. So what? You say he posted it to Youtube? Wow, what a catastrophe! Now the rest of the world's population who shares his level of humour can laugh with him. So what?
Here's a news flash for you school administration types.... you're not the primary authority figures in this young man's life. You are tasked with teaching him academics and their application, not with guiding his sense of humour into approved channels. Fuck off
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the school needs to be, uhm, schooled.
at 10k feet, I can't tell who is in charge. a child who has the age of an adult or a child who has the age of a child.
I really can't tell! at this distance, the school and its contents all look the same to me. yelling, screaming, pulling hair; and that's just the older grey-haired ones.
Over and Over Again (Score:2)
Every time that we hear about another incident like this, it turns out badly for the school (and for the student, since later vindication never makes up for years of trouble).
So why don't school officials stop doing it? Do they know that there are hundreds of such cases each year where the intimidation wins early and the media never hears of it? No, more likely, they are just ignorant of the dozens of school officials who have lost jobs and elections for trying this.
Some one needs to write a Continuing Ed
Something stuck out to me... (Score:2)
Apparently petitions are also banned by the cryptofascists who run this school.
Couple of points (Score:3)
1) How is it that school administrators had the time to look at this drek? Is this what we're paying them unhealthy sums of money to do?
2) I dare say that if this happened in the good old U.S. of A., the ACLU would be all over the school like stink on sh*t bleating about First Amendment rights.
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I'm not sure what you point is then. It's not like there's anything wrong with that
Anytime someone gets in trouble just for expressing themselves, you mean? I think a
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Well, some people might find your 'expression' to be insulting. If I run around yelling homophobic comments, or yelling ethnic slurs, would it be considered freedom of expression? Or would I end up making new friends in court?
Thing is that 'expression' is a very vague and open term. Insults can be an expression. Bad language can be an expression. Racism and calls to kill people for being 'heathens' can be an expression. And sometimes this magic 'get out of responsibility free' card works.
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All these things need to be protected In order to promote reasonable discourse. If you take anything off the table you risk marginalizing legitimate viewpoints and ending discussion. Expression is much more important than people's desire to go through life un-challenged and un-offended. Anything can be considered offensive or subversive or dangerous or pornographic by the right person. You have to accept the viewpoints of others if you are really want to peacefully coexist with them. Just because people
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Insults can be an expression. Bad language can be an expression. Racism and calls to kill people for being 'heathens' can be an expression.
Yes, to all of them. It only becomes a crime when the words are interpreted as orders by someone who is under your command in some way. If I say "someone should kill that guy", that's an expression of an opinion, however if I am a leader of a paramilitary group and say that to my platoon it becomes a direct order and I become part of a conspiracy to kill someone.
You either have it or you don't (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're the kind of person who gets fed up with this whole tired Freedom of Speech thing when you don't agree with what's being said.
Either you have freedom of speech or you don't. You can't pick and choose.
I live in Europe where there are many restrictions on what can and can't be discussed in public. I don't admire much about the politics in the US but one thing I very much admire is that if someone thinks something they have an absolute right to say it out loud.
I can't see the point of urinating o
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Pretty much anything can be justified, including urinating on religious symbols and taking images of them (and yes that happened).
And this is as it should be.
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The main reason it's annoying is because it's clearly supposed to resonate with the First Amendment for people, which it has absolutely nothing to do with (unless his school board is Congress for some reason.)
The fact that he's Canadian makes it all the more interesting.
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This is pretty informative, so I guess I have to use my karma to make this anonymous post a little more visible.
If the societies have strong religious ties, it's likely that the principal of the school is a religious nut, and freaked out when he saw Jesus. That would explain why the teachers didn't have any problems with it.