Aaron Computer Rental Firm Spies On Users 510
An anonymous reader writes with word from Yahoo news of a lawsuit "filed on behalf of a Wyoming couple who said they learned about the PC Rental Agent 'device and/or software' inside the computer they rented last year when an Aaron's Inc. store manager in Casper came to their home on Dec. 22. The manager tried to repossess the computer because he mistakenly believed the couple hadn't finished paying for it, the couple said. Brian Byrd, 26, said the manager showed him a picture of Byrd using the computer — taken by the computer's webcam. The image was shot with the help of spying software, which the lawsuit contends is made by North East, Pa.-based Designerware LLC and is installed on all Aaron's rental computers."
Whoops (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well, I'm guessing people who get computers at Aarons, (or Rent-A-Center, etc.) aren't the most likely to notice spyware either.
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Until the manager shows up at your door with a picture of you taken surreptitiously on your own webcam.
Seriously, how dumb is this company?
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Dumb enough for that manager to spend a few months cooling his heels in jail. The first thing these people should do with regard to that civil suit is get press criminal charges and simply let the government prove their case, it will save quite a chunk of money in their claim.
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Well, in this case they are right. This guy has the math skills of a child. If he's lucky. Have you ever worked out the costs of that? Some of the rental ones around here end up being over 4X the price of outright buying it, over just 15 months of payments.
He shouldn't be allowed to sign a contract that involves math in any way whatsoever.
Re:Whoops (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe it just proves, further, that the poor get screwed.
If you have $1,000, you can buy that laptop you didn't plan for, and so didn't save for, but would be really useful now that you are starting higher education. On the other hand, if your income dictates a 12 month period of saving to get that $1,000, chances are that your window of opportunity for schooling has closed before you have the hardware.
Enter the rent-to-own industry, giving you long term low monthly payments, with what amounts to incredible interest rates. The payday advance places are the same. If you make good money, you'll never fell their sting. If you make really good money, you'll never pay interest period, just handling fees.
And now they have, if the story is true, real spyware. What type of dirtbag, including the school "officials" reported a few months back using the webcams on student laptops, spies on someone in this manner?
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If you have $1,000, you can buy that laptop you didn't plan for, and so didn't save for, but would be really useful now that you are starting higher education. On the other hand, if your income dictates a 12 month period of saving to get that $1,000, chances are that your window of opportunity for schooling has closed before you have the hardware.
So what you're saying is, maybe all those people who tell you that you should never, ever buy anything on credit (because credit is evil and you should always buy everything with cash), should get a crash course on something called "opportunity cost"? It's not as if it's hard for a student to get a credit card.
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Opportunity cost doesn't really play into it. You can always use computer labs at your school. A laptop is a low-ticket, nice-to-have item, which mean it should never, ever be purchased on credit.
The average savings account in the U.S. contains somewhere on the order $20,000. Therefore, if you're buying anything on credit that costs more than an order of magnitude less than that, you are basically declaring yourself to be poor, complete with a giant, flashing neon sign. Because the working poor are more
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That said, these rental places should be avoided like the plague. At least use a low-interest credit card if you must buy on credit.
Re:Whoops (Score:4, Insightful)
You need to widen your circle of friends then - or teach them how to start saving. Anyone should be able to reduce their cost of living to that it is 90% of their income, and save the remaining 10%. It's all a question of living within your means, and learning how to save so you don't have to depend on the state or your kids to support you when you retire.
Re:Whoops (Score:5, Insightful)
(1) Median is not mean;
(2) I've never met a decent rich guy, and I was brought up in a significantly privileged environment - while I've never used money to decide on my friends, I've never been able to form a lasting friendship with anyone of significant means as they have all failed at demonstrating kindness/selflessness/generosity/etc and end up taking advantage of me when I try to demonstrate same. Causation no, but correlation certainly;
(3) People in debt (e.g. medical bills) don't get to save anything, let alone 10%;
(4) Many people live on the bread line - for any given location, recalling the cost of transport, there is a typical minimum wage which reflects the absolute minimum needed to survive. Many people are on this wage. The idea that you can always "save the remaining 10%" is inherently irrational and contrary to basic market theory: if it's an employers' market, employers will pay the absolute minimum to keep their employees alive and working;
(5) Telling people to "live within your means" is another way of saying, "I should get to enjoy life more than you so please continue suffering so that I can maintain my enjoyment." While I live well below my means, I don't begrudge anyone who feels he should have no less than the greatest glutton;
(6) You pay the state when you work to support you when you cannot. If taxation were at the level of, say, the US 150 years ago, then you might have an argument. It is not and you do not.
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Are you including retirement savings in your estimate of average savings account value? I certainly have more than 20k in my retirement accounts, but due to some recent medical crap I'm happy to have a few hundred in my day-to-day savings and heck yeah I put the cat's most recent vet bill on my credit card to preserve that little cash cushion (though my interest rate on that card is under 10%).
Re:Whoops (Score:4, Insightful)
I bet $20,000 is the mean amount in savings, which would be pushed up by all the {m,b}illionaires.
I wonder what the modal average savings is? I bet it's a lot lower.
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Re:Whoops (Score:5, Interesting)
Not an American, but I usually keep a float of about $1000 (CAD) in my bank account to pay for incidentals, the rest of the overage in my monthly budget goes towards paying my car loan and mortgage off faster. If I wanted to, I could easily put away more (there's a little over $600/mo surplus in my monthly budget), but it makes better economic sense to pay off those large loans faster, in order to reduce the interest that I'm paying overall: if I pay my car loan off 2 years early, I only pay 0.9% interest on the thing (it goes up to 1.9% in the final two years). The mortgage is a higher interest rate anyway, and for now, that's what I'm overpaying.
It's well and good to suggest that people should be saving more money, but there's times where building up your savings is a bad idea. Most poor people aren't even in a position where building up their savings is an option because they simply aren't paid enough, and many if not most middle class people are in the same situation that I am: putting away money is possible, but it's bad economic sense in the long run, because they can save thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars by paying off their debt faster.
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Re:Whoops (Score:4, Insightful)
So what you're saying is, maybe all those people who tell you that you should never, ever buy anything on credit (because credit is evil and you should always buy everything with cash), should get a crash course on something called "opportunity cost"? It's not as if it's hard for a student to get a credit card.
These companies don't aim at people who can easily get a credit card. I don't know what it's like where you are, but here in the UK they've got very flashy window displays proudly announcing things like "Poor credit history? No proof of earnings? Not a homeowner? No problem!". The actual final price you wind up being stung for is carefully hidden.
They'll sell to more-or-less anyone, and the business model is clear - their customers have a high risk of not paying, but that doesn't matter too much because the item that was sold under a 12 or 24 month contract was actually paid for in the first 3-6 months. Provided the customer continues to pay for longer than that, you're in profit. And they often will, because you're not the sort of company that writes a few rude letters before taking someone to court over missed payments. You're the sort of company that sends around a couple of big, threatening-looking men to take the item away if payment is so much as 10 days late.
Such companies are vultures, they prey on a section of society that wants the latest toys but cannot hope to afford them. But they're very well dressed, very smart vultures with high street business premises, which is enough for the target market not to realise what they're letting themselves in for until it's far too late.
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The UK is offering more useful assistance to its poorer citizens than the USA is doing. I do not think that is a surprise to anyone.
The USA is still crippled by a social Darwinism view of economics. That anyone with a bit of intelligence and self-discipline could significantly improve their circumstances; rise to the top. The unfortunate flip side of this world view is that anyone in poorer circumstances than your own is unfit for survival in a progressive economy and deserves whatever exploitation you ca
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Re:Whoops (Score:5, Insightful)
I put tape over my work laptop's webcam. A little paranoid... perhaps... but it makes me feel better.
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Nothing wrong with covering a cam you are not going to use and plenty right about it if your shit gets rooted.
Re:Whoops (Score:5, Funny)
Personally anytime I'm on my mbp I just sit there nude while I program. If anyone spies on me they deserve what they get!
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I did that, but then I got thin and gorgeous and now they have to pay for me to remove the tape.
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You need a laptop for college, any cost? They're no longer considered luxury devices for self absorbed managers?
Re:Whoops (Score:4, Funny)
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$1000? If you're that poor there are plenty of computers out there that are more cost effective. My dad is still running a computer he got a couple years back for $400 and it seems to be doing just fine. When it gets too slow for use, I'll just upgrade it to Linux and he'll likely be happy for a couple more years after that.
$1000 is justifiable for some people, but if you're having to buy through this sort of service you'd definitely be better off paying less and buying outright.
Re:Whoops (Score:5, Informative)
Funny. If you read TFA, you'll see that the couple in question had paid off the computer and now owned it outright. The store manager was mistakenly trying to repossess the computer and that revealed the spyware to them. So, obviously, they could afford the contract. Nothing clear about it.
The point of the article is not poor people make bad decision, get computer repossessed. It was about a company still having spyware on a computer that was owned by their former customers.
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Do you know, I think you're the first person to get it in the whole thread?
These companies do not sell to people who will do a bit of arithmetic and work out the most cost-effective way of getting what they want. They don't expect to sell anything to such a person.
They sell to a group who want the latest thing and focus purely on how much it'll cost them per month.
Clearly this group of people is big enough to sustain such businesses or they wouldn't exist.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whoops (Score:4, Informative)
(I'm used to it, we PC repairmen are like plumbers that way)
No we're not.
We don't star in computer games and we don't appear in cheezy porn.
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Huh? I know this is slashdot and no one reads the story, but if you are going to strut around trying to make yourself look smart you should try. This guy obviously knew that renting it was a very bad deal which is why he bought out the rest on the rental after only two months when he had the money. He didn't wait two months to buy it since it was a time sensitive need as his wife needed it for course work.
Shocking (Score:5, Insightful)
On the motherboard? (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, they had to go with a hardware/software solution, when they could have very easily done it in software only? And what does that do to the warranty from the original manufacturer, soldering new parts into your motherboard usually voids those.
Also, given the demographic of people who "Rent to Own", I'd hate to see some of those webcam shots...
HEX
hardware may just be a key / on / off switch / tri (Score:2)
hardware may just be a key / on / off switch switch / trigger switch or just a usb board hidden inside. Some laptop boards have usb ports on the in side or headers / plugs for usb ports. Some systems have unused bluetooth cables / plugs that can be used for this.
seems to be software only
http://www.pcrentalagent.com/eSiteWay/Home.aspx?tabindex=5&tabid=510 [pcrentalagent.com]
Re:On the motherboard? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you look at the company's pricing information, it only quotes software licensing fees and prices for additional/replacement/updated install media. No mention of hardware components, much less the sort of model-specific inventory mess that any deep integration would require. Obviously, the information available on the seller's site for that offering doesn't preclude a custom offering for a large customer, with more robust features; but it also isn't as though lying about the existence of super-tough hardware security in order to reduce the risk that your clueless customer tries to have their nephew who "knows computers" install a cracked copy of XP on a "bricked" machine would be a terribly unlikely strategy...
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Unless there are additional details not disclosed on their kinda sleazy looking; but unabashed [pcrentalagent.com] website, the hardware component seems like it is either a mistake(perhaps referring to some sort of anti-theft tag?) or an additional feature specific to this major chain.
If you look at the company's pricing information, it only quotes software licensing fees and prices for additional/replacement/updated install media. No mention of hardware components, much less the sort of model-specific inventory mess that any deep integration would require. Obviously, the information available on the seller's site for that offering doesn't preclude a custom offering for a large customer, with more robust features; but it also isn't as though lying about the existence of super-tough hardware security in order to reduce the risk that your clueless customer tries to have their nephew who "knows computers" install a cracked copy of XP on a "bricked" machine would be a terribly unlikely strategy...
Unless there are additional details not disclosed on their kinda sleazy looking; but unabashed [pcrentalagent.com] website, the hardware component seems like it is either a mistake(perhaps referring to some sort of anti-theft tag?) or an additional feature specific to this major chain.
If you look at the company's pricing information, it only quotes software licensing fees and prices for additional/replacement/updated install media. No mention of hardware components, much less the sort of model-specific inventory mess that any deep integration would require. Obviously, the information available on the seller's site for that offering doesn't preclude a custom offering for a large customer, with more robust features; but it also isn't as though lying about the existence of super-tough hardware security in order to reduce the risk that your clueless customer tries to have their nephew who "knows computers" install a cracked copy of XP on a "bricked" machine would be a terribly unlikely strategy...
There appears to be something they add either through hardware or software than can require you to use a USB thumb drive as a key. Check out the accessories page. I'm going to say that it's both hardware and software.
"Require an unLock device like a CD or a USB Thumb Drive to always be available or the device locks. It will not work unless the unLock device is found."
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Rent a computer? (Score:5, Insightful)
There was an ad around here not too long ago about something similar. While I was listening to it, they obviously mentioned the 'monthly price' and the length of the term. Before the commercial was over I had done the math in my head, and the laptop ended up costing almost 4X the amount it would have otherwise cost.
I imagine this is probably similar. Anyone who signs such a deal should immediately be enrolled in a math class that will sufficiently explain amortization costs in such a situation. They should then be able to pass an exam that proves they are aware of what the real cost is, in a single number, over the rental term.
There is a reason the phrase 'A fool and his money are soon parted' exists, I suppose.
Re:Rent a computer? (Score:4, Informative)
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their choices actually get worse, not better.
I would consider saving the money before buying it to be better, not worse. The cost is already ~$200/mo, with a few other cuts, they could easily get a laptop free and clear, FOR THEIR NEEDS, within 60 days of saving.
A laptop isnt exactly an emergency cost. In the story, it is described as being for the wife's new classes. She didn't just wake up one day with no warning whatsoever that classes were starting in 2 hours.
Re:Rent a computer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even when I made the equivalent of $22k/yr in today's money, I didn't do these things. That's one of the many reasons that I'm not still making $22k/year. These people can't delay gratification enough to save up, nor are they smart enough to earn a lot more. The best path is a tough call, because the renters-to-own aren't going to get any smarter - all we can change is whether or not it is possible to lend to them profitably.
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Ok, this is what I have never understood about the poor. I've lived on ~12k per year before at a fast food job I WALKED TO, so I know what I'm talking about. Perhaps as long as they get their government check and government foodstamps they'll never understand.
All that you have to do to get a "credit card" is open an account at a credit union. You don't need credit for that. Just get a damned job, go to a credit union with your first paycheck, and open an account. Problem solved. It's not some magic
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You assume these people can save the money in the first place, which in my experience is an erroneous assumption.
demonlapin got it right: if you outlaw rent-to-own, you're going to force the people who use those services to go somewhere worse. You will not make their lives better in your attempt to save them from their own stupidity.
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It's like rent-a-center or payday loans. These companies exploit the poor by taking advantage of their lacking financial planning skills. Some of the blame certainly lies with the people who fall for these scams, but they are scams all the same.
It's no different from people being stupid enough to send money to Nigerian princes. You shouldn't hold the "prince" harmless.
Re:Rent a computer? (Score:5, Informative)
My math says it's not so different from paying for a new PC with a credit card at not-very-favorable rates.
And, in both cases, there is the opportunity to buy/pay off the thing at any time. Aaron's retail prices tend to be on the high side of things, but not outlandishly so (in my observation).
And for some folks, renting is a distinct advantage: Why buy a thing, just to replace it a year or two later (and fuss with selling the old one), when you can just rent the current thing and have it replaced when it is deemed old?
These aren't leases. They're just month-to-month (sometimes, week-to-week) rentals. Need a fast laptop for a project, with no foreseeable need for one after that? Just rent one.
Want an additional comfy couch for the house and a big TV to watch "the game" on with your pals, and a dedicated fridge to keep the keg cold until it runs out, but have no desire for these things to take up long-term space? Rent 'em. They even drop them off and pick them up. (Hell, with the deposit for them, even the keg+tap might be considered to be a rental...)
Of course, there's the dark side, as well: Want a new computer, long-term, but can't afford one? Rent-to-own might not be the most practical choice.
All that said: I, myself, don't rent anything. I buy my houses and have my own name on the deed, I buy my cars, and I buy my electronics and furniture. I have rented apartments before, but got out of that game as quickly as possible. The closest thing I do to renting things, these days, is Netflix.
But I'm not allergic to the concept.
YMMV.
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If you ever get bored, go to the Rent-A-Center's website and check out some of the items and prices they're "renting" them for.
I remember checking out their price for a 360 a while back because I'd heard their prices after everything was said and done was a bit ridiculous. Boy was that an understatement. The final amount they wanted came to like $1400, for a $300 machine, and the monthly payments were like $120. I'm not sure how retarded people have to be to enter into deals like that, but I guess there's
Electrical tape over the webcam (Score:3)
Seriously. I own all of my hardware and do a bare-metal install on every laptop but there's no telling when some piece of malware may come out that secretly takes snapshots with the webcam. Or maybe I do a video chat then forget to turn off the camera. Heck, my current laptop doesn't even have a status light to warn me if it's on.
If I was renting/borrowing a laptop, I'd be even more inclined to be careful. Heck, I'd probably do everything on a VM.
Re:Electrical tape over the webcam (Score:5, Funny)
Easy to solve - just run Linux, and there's pretty much no chance of the webcam working even if you wanted it to ;)
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Until someone hacks your Linux computer and gets the webcam working... while you assume it is not.
Electrical tape works best.
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30 seconds of googling pulls up a cute little 3x4mm package, 1mm high, SMT, pick and place compatible, mic and ADC in one package, under 650 m
are "we" really better with our money? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm interested to read these comments regarding the fiscal foolishness of renting and have thought the exact same things when seen similar advertisements. I do wonder if the very rich would say the same about us in regards to buying land and houses though - how many times do we pay for our house at 7% PA over 25 years? Also how many of us have bought computers and gear on our credit cards at 15% PA or something?
It is true that the fool and his money are easily parted but I'm not so convinced that we're that much better than those who rent computers sometimes...
I do feel for those who really struggle and I think some of these attitudes (which I'm guilty off also) are a bit harsh. They're also seemingly more vulnerable to other illogical deals (in regards to the maths) like going in lotteries and other gambling (gee how does that casino pay for all that fancy stuff?). They use pawn brokers for temporary loans at ridiculous interest rates and are more prone to buy shonky cars with limited life/value again at bad interest rates etc.
I'm not any kind of expert in socialology but I'm sure there would have been studies and research done in how the poor are more susceptible to being tricked out of their already meagre resources. Its pretty easy for us "middle class" folks to be a bit wiser and more informed in such things.
Rent To Own (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Rent To Own (Score:5, Informative)
Loans and payments that can't be discharged in bankruptcy (student loans, child support, etc.)
Secured debt (house, auto)
Unsecured debt (credit card, medical, etc)
And as someone who just had to do it: my wife had a medical emergency that required surgery, and we owed a few grand that I didn't have at the time. I called them up, they asked 'can you afford $150/month? Yes, OK, that will be your payment at 0% until paid'. Medical places would much rather get paid slowly than not get paid at all.
I know times are tough but really? (Score:2, Informative)
Who in the hell would buy a computer from Rent A Center or Aaron Rents, etc. Computer speeds these days are primarily a luxury for home users...other than hardcore gamers there is very little that a person cant do with a 6 year old hand me down computer like you can pick up at yard sales for $50. I would say its a place for people with more money than sense...but of course its for people with no money and no sense. Their current flyer on their website shows a sempron based cheapo compaq for $99 a month f
that just makes us look bad (Score:5, Interesting)
I work at an Aarons Sales and Lease. . As the resident tech guy, I install the PC agent software on all computers before they are sold. If we don't hear from a customer for more than usually around ten days after their bill is due, we send a lock out message. The software pings the server and a red screen pops up asking them to call the store. When they pay or make an arrangement with us, we give them a 7 digit code that unlocks it. It provides ability to view screenshots and take webcam shots but it is only used when a computer is reported stolen and we have a copy of a police report than we utilize it. When they pay out, I go online and mark the agent for uninstall and thats that.
As far at the RTO business model criticism goes, Aaron's at least cost about as much as if you charged it. All the computers have a two year warranty and I provide damn good customer service which makes up for any more of a price difference.
Re:that just makes us look bad (Score:4, Insightful)
It provides ability to view screenshots and take webcam shots but it is only used when a computer is reported stolen and we have a copy of a police report than we utilize it.
Clearly that isn't the case.
Re:that just makes us look bad (Score:5, Insightful)
What we are talking about is is the right of a firm to have a customer sign away basic rights. For instance, would Aaron's include a cluase that if the rent was late, a rep would have the right to molest a person, child or adult, in the family of thier choice. Of course not. Then why should Aaron's have the right to watch a peep show. Sure the policy is that this feature will only be used under certain circumstances, and I am sure 99.9999% of the well paid professionals that have access to the computer will do this, but really, why take the risk that the one remaining employee is not going to be jacking off to some kid? What is the rational? To catch the customers that say the computer was stolen but in fact are still using it? Does Aarons have such equipment on furniture and TV so they can watch kids make out? I think not, yet they are doing well without it.
This is just a case where a firm is being an arrogant dumbass. If the customers were told and they initialed their consent, then I am wrong. If the customers do not know that some creppy guy is potentially watching the kids run around the trailer, then Aarons deserves to be sued for all it can be sued for. It is not because the business model is inherently bad. It is because firms all to often think they can do anything for profit. Sell drugs to kids, frisk customers on the way out, intimidate them into an upsale. As consumers, even those with just enough money to rent to own, we must assert ourselves as the powerful agents in this relationship. After all, we are the ones that have the money, and the retailers are the one's who need it. By accepting the fiction that we are the weak one's, we allow the retailers to screw us.
wipe it (Score:2)
I think if I rented a computer from anywhere, I would wipe the drive and install linux.. or at least reinstall windows using their windows key.. and when I returned it? I would low level format it ;) talk about an ID theft opportunity...
Webcams are creepy (Score:2)
Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but I live in constant fear that my laptop is watching me... trying to figure out how to sap and impurify my precious bodily fluids.
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How about a piece of duct tape?
Designerware (Score:4, Interesting)
State of Pennsylvania Business Search [state.pa.us]:
Google Maps shows that as a 2-story frame house in reasonably good condition with two cars in the driveway..
Dun and Bradstreet reports
You can buy a D&B credit report on them. [dnb.com]
Checking Erie County property records:
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Its all about things that "just work"
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Re:from TFA: owning it outright vs OS (Score:4, Insightful)
So yet again the same lesson: _never_ trust a computer on which you have not installed the OS yourself, and kept 100% secure from malware.
It just boggles my mind seeing people use these computers from big box stores loaded up with crapware, without having the first idea what all that shit does. Why would you use a computer like that? It's idiotic. This case is an even worse example: you trusted the OS that was there, which came complete with spyware.
You are a computer geek. It is obvious to YOU, not so obvious to the general public (aka Joe Sixpack).
Do you use a (modern) car? How about a cellphone? Do you know what all of it's components do? Do you know what data is being recorded about your daily habits? Do you know who has access to that data? Or do you just trust the engineers who designed it and the technician who maintains it for you?
Most people make a compromise between functionality and control. We don't know how to make or do everything, so we trust others to do it for us. Sometimes they fuck us. Sometimes we don't like getting fucked by anyone besides Ms Wallace... so we call in a couple of hard hitting attorneys and get medieval on their asses. (yes, that's a bad Pulp Fiction reference...)
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A lot of companies no longer provide install discs for the OS. You either need to buy a second copy, or borrow from a friend, (or pirate the discs and use your legit product key). Doing a clean install isn't possible for many people as a result. Really, I suspect that this is one of the reasons people view Macs as "just working". They don't come loaded down with crap.
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Little embedded application processor, active whenever the computer has access to power(whether 'on' or not), integrates with the NIC, video chipset, and peripheral controllers to pro
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Come on, admit it. You work for the NSA [nsa.gov] and you're actually watching me type this right now. You're just playing with us, saying that someday someone will make "...some rather minor modifications" and be able to do exactly what you're doing right now. BTW, I don't feel like getting up to check - can you tell me if the coffee's ready?
Re:from TFA: owning it outright vs OS (Score:4, Funny)
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you can't consent to child porn (Score:5, Interesting)
you can't consent to child porn and you can't sign away your rights or have stuff in the fine print saying we can read your CC or SS or bank account numbers from the system.
"Crystal gets online before she gets a shower and checks her grades," Brian Bird said. "Who knows? They could print that stuff off there and take it home with them."
He added: "I've got a 5-year-old boy who runs around all day and sometimes he gets out of the tub running around for 20, 30 seconds while we're on the computer. What if they took a picture of that? I wouldn't want that kind of garbage floating around out there."
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you can't consent to child porn and you can't sign away your rights or have stuff in the fine print saying we can read your CC or SS or bank account numbers from the system.
I am not really sure what child exploitation has to do with it. Since when are pictures of naked children called child porn? That is a 2/10 on the original COPINE Scale [wikipedia.org], and it does not appear at all on the SAP scale at all (note, I am not talking about posed pictures).
Now that we are past that, who said you can't have "stuff in the fine print" saying anything? Last time I checked, if you sign a contract, you have agreed to whatever it says, which includes the fine print whether you read it or not and even
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http://www.solresearch.org/~SOLR/rprt/LookNow.asp#Sct_1_NakedKidPics [solresearch.org] [solresearch.org] There have been many dozen cases of people taking pics of their baby kids in a bathtub or otherwise half dressed and successfully convicted.
I have seen all of those stories before, but let's start with the first one:
- Accusation: Yes
- Investigation: Yes
- Annoyance: Certainly
- Conviction: No
The second link on that site is a story I have not seen before, but that is probably because it is a 404.
The third link: one convicted and overturned, one convicted which was obviously wrong (with no further sources available).
In the fourth case listed there:
Angeli was never charged with child pornography, but she was charged with disorderly conduct, malicious destruction of property under $250, and assault and battery with a dangerous weapon. source [rcn.com]
Summary: No convictions.
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I agree with you in general, but after looking at some of the links on the site, it becomes pretty obvious they have an agenda.
SOLR Quote:
Charleston, W.Va., 2007. Melissa Hicks did not mention any sexual improprieties during the divorce proceedings against her husband, David. But after she was not granted custody of their two daughters, he became the pariah of the neighborhood and was sentenced to 30 years in prison for alleged misdeeds with various little girls.
Quote from linked FBI file:
The evidence presented at trial established that Hicks, a father of two girls under the age of 10, frequently had his older daughter’s friends spend the night as guests. Five of these juveniles, girls between the ages of nine and 12, testified at trial. During their testimony, the girls stated Hicks frequently took photos of them while they were at the home, commented on his ability to see through their clothing, walked in on them while they were changing or bathing, watched and photographed them through the blinds of the home while they were swimming in his pool, and physically touched more than one of them inappropriately. Many of the photos taken by Hicks were located on his computer in a special archive folder. The photos were of his daughter’s friends either nude or partially nude.
The evidence also established that Hicks is a trained computer expert who maintained a computer in his bedroom that had four separate hard drives. These hard drives, in addition to numerous compact disks, contained thousands of images and movies of prepubescent children engaged in sexually explicit conduct. Forensic analysis of this electronic media revealed Hicks searched for sexually explicit movie clips of children using a peer-to-peer file sharing program, and then downloaded the movie clips to his computer. Hicks forfeited all of his computer equipment associated with these crimes.
So yeah, SOLR's quote is technically true. It just doesn't mention that the "alleged offences" were also confirmed in a court of law, due in part to photographic evidence.
a apartment contract can't have stuff in the contr (Score:2)
a apartment contract can't have stuff in the contract like we have the right to have camera in the apartment or that you can't have your own satellite dish.
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a apartment contract can't have stuff in the contract like we have the right to have camera in the apartment or that you can't have your own satellite dish.
Source? Why not?
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Source:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=satelite+dish+apartment [lmgtfy.com]
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apartment+hidden+camera+illegal [lmgtfy.com]
Why not:
They can put it in the contract, but it's not enforceable.
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Last time I checked, if you sign a contract, you have agreed to whatever it says
Then you didn't check very hard. There are all kinds of things you cannot legally agree to (or rather, that you cannot be legally forced to comply with after having agreed to them).
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Re:you can't consent to child porn (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Whose consent is needed? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Work-for-hire. Work product (generally) refers to information produced by legal representation in the process of working on a given case, and as such cannot be subpoenaed in relation to said case. Splitting hairs, I know, but it's a significant distinction.
Work product is also based (generally) on federal legal precedent, whereas work-for-hire is based on positive laws which vary from state to state.
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Or is it a simple invasion of privacy, since they're using their equipment to take pictures of people (or anything else) inside of their own home, (presumably) without consent?
In terms of property rights, AFAIK, even landlords have to provide some notice before entering property they've rented out without permission.
Re:Whose consent is needed? (Score:4, Insightful)
More generally, I'd imagine that it depends how much the judicial/jury opinion falls under the sway of soothing babble about "legitimate digital asset management practices..." and how much it falls under the "Yeah, this is pretty much like I was renting an apartment, so my landlord decided he could install a camera in my shower" analogy.
Precedent could allow them quite substantial leeway if this case gets linked to the "the Company owns and watches everything you do while in the building" body of case law; but if it falls in with the body of precedent concerning rented dwellings and other things with long and emotively engaging histories, they could have Serious Issues.
If, of course, anybody finds a cache of kiddie porn being generated by the sorts of bored sleazeballs who would work for a rent-to-own company using the spyware, heads will probably roll.
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Actually, since Byrd DID finish paying for it, the computer didn't belong to Aaron anymore.
Even if it was still Aaron's, that doesn't allow them to invade people's privacy in their own home.
I have worked on a lot of laptops there is room fo (Score:2)
I have worked on a lot of laptops there is room for a small usb based board to be jammed in there or some systems have ports that are covered by the case or can be made to look like there is no port there. Also some system have mostly side usb ports on there own mini board that can be tied into for a hidden board.
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OMG FIRST!
I realize you wanted to be first but couldn't afford it. We'd be happy to rent you a comparable posting position for an outrageous interest rate and some undisclosed tracking software.
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Never mind the spying..this Aarons "deal" is a sucker punch to the wallet.
ANYTHING bought on credit is like that. Did you pay sticker price for your car, or did you make payments on it? Did you pay cash for your house, or did you get a mortgage? Did you pay cash for college, or did you get a student loan? You are getting screwed on ANYTHING you don't pay cash for. Invasion of privacy doesn't have a damned thing to do with whether or not they had to make payments for a computer.