Interpol Wants a Global Identity Card System 349
Orome1 writes "The head of INTERPOL has emphasized the need for a globally verifiable electronic identity card (e-ID) system for migrant workers at an international forum on citizen ID projects, e-passports, and border control management. INTERPOL Secretary General Ronald K. Noble said: "At a time when global migration is reaching record levels, there is a need for governments to put in place systems at the national level that would permit the identity of migrants and their documents to be verified internationally via INTERPOL." Issuing migrant workers e-ID cards in a globally verifiable format will also reduce corruption and enable cardholders to be eligible for electronic remittance schemes that will foster greater economic development and prosperity in INTERPOL member countries."
One world government (Score:2, Insightful)
of commie Nazi fascists!
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FTFA:
"The ID WORLD forum heard that such a card required developing a mechanism whereby the biometric identity features of migrants, such as fingerprints and DNA, would be checked systematically against global databases."
A global DNA database?
At least they wont be able to lose that data on a couple of CDs...
http://www.alertboot.com/blog/blogs/endpoint_security/archive/2010/05/13/disk-encryption-us-army-reserve-has-laptop-stolen-cd-causes-data-breach.aspx [alertboot.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_United_Kingdom_ch [wikipedia.org]
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From "show me your papers" to "put this swab in your cheek, low-life" in a single step. How droll.
Re:Join the opposite (Score:4, Informative)
P.S. Metagovernment is an open community. If you have a problem with how it is being implemented, you can change it!
That's what they said about democracy, but I tend to see little change.
Re:One world government (Score:4, Insightful)
Control is the only reason I can see for something like this.
Why can't we live our lives in a matter of micro-transactions without everyone knowing what you are doing? I mean, do I really need a global ID to buy a loaf of bread or visit the someone (say, a doctor) and pay them in cash?
The only benefit to IDs are to people getting services from governmental bodies. (ie: so people don't cross the border and obtain medical care on the local citizen's bill.) The more I hear about global/national IDs, the more I hate socialized services because that's the only "valid" reason to have them. If people lived their own lives to the extent that they, as an individual, can afford there would be no need for IDs to make sure you are getting your fair ration.
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Yeah, and? Sure, it may suck... but if you can't afford something what makes the next guy responsible for you or your mistakes? (Not saying cancer is a mistake... but what if you go jumping off a roof? Do they have to pay for your stupidity?)
I also get tired of the "Oh the humanity!" arguments like the one you just presented. One day you have to realize that people die. You have to be prepared for it. There are simply not enough resources in this world to allow people to be careless with their own hea
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I don't endorse the libertarian position, but frankly, people like you often just turn out to be a different kind of monster--the theocratic kind, the socialist kind, the totalitarian kind, etc. You're all out to help me live better, but historically, your track record is lousy.
What seems to work fairly well is a democracy with a loosely regulated free market and a limited set of public services. The government shou
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Then I suppose you are donating at least 45% of your after tax income to pay for the treatment of others, correct?
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Since Marx and Engels didn't really have anything to do with the later corruption of their works, I'd have to say the two that lead a revolution against their government would be the bigger monsters. That said, I wouldn't really classify any of them as being particularly monsterous. A better comparison would be to Lenin and Stalin, the fathers of what most people think of when you talk about communism.
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So, getting cancer, getting in a car accident where you're not responsible, or getting alzheimer is being careless?
I never said that. You are reading too much. However, I did say that you have to accept that you will die. That's the end of my argument with you.
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It's just as well. "Sucks to be them" isn't much of an argument to begin with.
--Jeremy
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You didn't answer his question. Let me recap:
You: Socialized/Community medical care sucks
Him: What if you get cancer and can't afford it?
You: Sidestepping cancer, throw up strawman of roof jumping. I shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes.
Him: Bites on strawman.
You: You will die.
But you never answered the cancer situation. If we have the technology and resources (and in a first world country, we DO have the resources) in our society to cure the sick, aren't we morally obligated to do so? Sure, there i
Re:One world government (Score:4, Informative)
You have an inflated sense of what medicine can do right now; medicine doesn't reliably "cure the sick". Medicine can cure some simple diseases, improve quality of life for some others, give you a slightly better chance for yet more, and even make you sick or kill you. Medicine is not a very effective way of saving lives.
The problem is really one of resource allocation: every dollar you spend on medical treatments is a dollar you don't spend on education, research, public health, etc. That only makes sense if that dollar spent on medical treatments saves more lives and produces more happiness than if you spent it somewhere else. We're already far beyond that point in our medical treatments in the US.
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Protect it from whom? The only people I currently see potentially taking away that right are the people in charge of the military.
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There are many problems with socialized medicine, not the least of which is that there isn't a limit to what care can be provided, or that the limit is something dictated by a government bureaucracy.
Back about a hundred years ago, there were hard limits in terms of what a physician could do to help you out if you got sick. Giving you a couple pills, prescribing you some cocktail of chemicals mixed with alcohol, and some rudimentary surgery was about all that could be done, and none of that was really all t
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If we have the technology and resources (and in a first world country, we DO have the resources) in our society to cure the sick, aren't we morally obligated to do so?
I don't know where you are from, but I'm in the United States. Last month, our government spent eight times what it took in. Our total deficit is larger than our GDP. We're going to have to cut trillions from the budget just to break even and then to tack on another few trillion to pay for socialized medicine, we will need to cut from somewhere else. Currently, the government is about to shut down because one side wants to cut $60 Billion from the budget out of a deficit of about $1.6 Trillion, and the
Re:One world government (Score:4, Insightful)
We're going to have to cut trillions from the budget just to break even and then to tack on another few trillion to pay for socialized medicine, we will need to cut from somewhere else.
we are already spending twice the most expensive single payer system to service fewer people why do you think we would need to add to out tax burden? take what we are spending today on health insurance, eliminate all but 10% admin overhead and we could have a gold plated health coverage for everybody. starting up means rearranging what we spend on health, not adding to it.
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Well, its tough, but am I truly my brothers keeper? Should that not be my choice rather than forced on me by the government?
And we DO kill prisoners, if the crime fits the punishment. Remember, prisoners are being punished for crimes, and the death penalty isn't justified
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Yes, like it or not, you are your brother's keeper. You can bellyache all you want but in healthcare alone there are myriad things we do, as a civilization, that benefits the whole far more than an individual (vaccination is a great example of this). This extends, of course further than healthcare, but since that's the typical US libertarian bugaboo I thought I'd use that one. So unless you want to go back to the days of Polio and other horrid diseases that were common, for you and your kids, and go back
Re:One world government (Score:5, Insightful)
Vaccinations are public health, not health care. Public health is clearly underfunded in the US: we should be spending more on vaccinations, health education, statistics and monitoring, and public health research.
Public health may also include some treatments for infectious diseases. All of those should be free and provided by the government. Effectively they are. But even this overlap between public health and health care is negligible.
Almost all US health care spending is on diseases which pose no threat to others: heart disease, diabetes, stroke, cancer. Most of that spending is wasted: either the disease is preventable, or it is treatable with lifestyle changes, or treatment is nearly ineffective.
That kind of reasoning is pointless; markets aren't socially fair, but they are still better than the alternatives. Government should do a little bit of work to smooth the excesses that markets sometimes produce, but anything more doesn't really work.
The real question is: what is going to get people off their butts so that they make the changes in their lives that keep our health care spending in check.
Re:One world government (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, its tough, but am I truly my brothers keeper? Should that not be my choice rather than forced on me by the government?
Well, what do you suggest? I don't want to live in a country full of sick beggars. It's cheaper to spend a small amount of money on socialised heathcare to stop people getting sick than it is to deal with the rampant spread of disease that having expensive private healthcare causes. What would you do when the sickly beggars die on the streets? Leave them there to rot and spread more disease, because you can't bear the thought of your precious pennies being spent on burying them?
Forget all that Ayn Rand shit and live in the real world.
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Not really...and depends on the state you're in.
Heck, in recent years...Texas has been putting in laws that will streamline the process for heinous acts of murder that have like 3-4 credible first account eye witness of the act.
Sure, some states are trying to outlaw the death penalty, but Texas is putting in an express lan
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That brings up one question I can never reconcile. Should people that have kids (or lots of kids) not pay more in taxes than those with few kids or none...since they do in fact use more resources?
I mean, if I drive a larger gas guzzling car/truck, I pay more fuel taxes....
And no....I don't buy that it is to encourage people to have kids (future tax payers). People will naturally fuck, and naturall
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So, getting cancer, getting in a car accident where you're not responsible, or getting alzheimer is being careless?
I mean, Why do we support prisonners? Why shouldn't we just kill them? After all, they are sucking up ressources, right?
And yet socialised health care works for many countries...
We *should* just kill them. They *do* suck up resources out of proportion to their productivity. And they aren't likely to get any more productive as time goes on, recidivism being what it is. Convict them, then dump them on the waste heap ASAP is the most economic solution.
But most people have this thing about reciprocity, and seeing things from the other guy's point of view, and walking in his shoes, etc. Keeps them from killing people that are not immediately threatening their life, or going to threa
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So, getting cancer, getting in a car accident where you're not responsible, or getting alzheimer is being careless?
I mean, Why do we support prisonners? Why shouldn't we just kill them? After all, they are sucking up ressources, right?
And yet socialised health care works for many countries...
Indeed, why are we supporting convicted criminals? Bring back exile! There are plenty of isolated islands that are suitable for permanent exile. I'd rather pay for college scholarships and medical care for law abiding citizens than for kenneling criminals. Offenders who currently get life sentences or the death penalty would get a one way ticket to an island somewhere far away (the Pacific Ocean is a very big place). So much for the hand wringing over the death penalty.
Seriously, most countries simply
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Why can't we live our lives in a matter of micro-transactions without everyone knowing what you are doing? I mean, do I really need a global ID to buy a loaf of bread or visit the someone (say, a doctor) and pay them in cash?
Do you typically cross a national border to buy a loaf of bread or visit your doctor? Why would you think you needed a global id used for border control and migrants if you don't cross a border, and how do you deal with the requirement for id and recordkeeping that already exist if you do?
Why would you think that an ID you use to cross the border to buy your loaf of bread would stop you from paying for it in cash, or for a doctor the same way?
If people lived their own lives to the extent that they, as an individual, can afford there would be no need for IDs to make sure you are getting your fair ration.
So live your life to the extent that you can without crossing
Re:One world government (Score:5, Insightful)
"Please log into the internet with your global ID. No sites will load without it. "
No World Order (Score:2)
Nihilo Ordo Seclorum
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One world corporation. Interpol is a private company.
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It is not a private company. Interpol is an international organization that fosters coordination and mutual assistance between law enforcement organizations. Its TLD is .int, and that is only provided to international organizations after a strict vetting process proving that it was formed by way of international treaty.
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Haha, not quite so. As the end of the war (WWII) there was the growing concern amongst various war criminals in Germany that they might end up in big trouble. The idea was formed to start an organization that would be looking for criminals, but manned by them, which would hold them above suspicion (plus they had new identities). At least that was the idea. That organization was named Interpol. It certainly was a private organization without any powers which is often given all sorts of powers in movies, but
I think I heard of this somewhere before... (Score:3, Funny)
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Re:I think I heard of this somewhere before... (Score:4, Insightful)
Revelations was a political tract railing against Emperor Nero. It was a capital crime to dis the emperor, so they wrote in code - seven hills, three heads, yadda yadda. The "Beast" was Nero. The "Whore of Babylon" was Rome. It was a political/religious pamphlet.
Any sufficiently nebulous set of metaphors can "predict" anything, if you want it to. What would impress me? St. John of Patmos saying, "In 2011, Interpol sets up an international ID card system." If you can see the future, there is no reason to obfuscate.
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Revelations was a political tract railing against Emperor Nero. It was a capital crime to dis the emperor, so they wrote in code - seven hills, three heads, yadda yadda. The "Beast" was Nero. The "Whore of Babylon" was Rome. It was a political/religious pamphlet.
Any sufficiently nebulous set of metaphors can "predict" anything, if you want it to. What would impress me? St. John of Patmos saying, "In 2011, Interpol sets up an international ID card system." If you can see the future, there is no reason to obfuscate.
Nostradamus predicted your post...
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As much as I hate to defend religious nutjobs, asking St John of Patmos to make clear predictions isn't really fair. Imagine someone from the first or second century really was magically transported to the present (or rather, the future if this international ID thing were to go through). Saying, "There will be this thing-y that you have to have, because if you don't have it you won't be able to work or sell things" seems like a pretty reasonable description for someone from that time period to come up wit
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... a pretty reasonable description for someone from that time period to come up with for a system that requires migrant workers to register for an ID before they're allowed to work.
You mean like a social security number?
This article is about registering for an ID before they are allowed to cross the border, whether or not they are going to work. Sorta like the PASSPORTS we already require people to have, but with the ability to tie into an international criminal database instead of just the national one.
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The predictions contained in the Bible (and in the works of Nostradamus, Mother Shipton, the Koran, etc) all are so nebulous as to be applicable to virtually any time in history, rendering them utterly useless.
Not utterly. They are a statement that bad things can come to pass unless we are watchful, and this is what to watch for. I'm not particulary worried whether the prediction applies to a plan from the Barons and Earls in 16th century England to require the peasants to have the Baron's number tatooed on their forehead if they want to buy grain, or a global electronic payment system replacing all cash in the 21st.
Just another data point in the debate of who/what the beast is: Seventh Day Adventists will tell
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Problem, the glimpse of the future would have to be expressed in a manner that can be understood by the locals from your home time.
So explain something like, "At some point in the future, all will have to carry a numbered marker in order to buy or sell things, and this marker will either need to be in hand, or you will need to remember it's number. This device will come from a blasphemous, heretical government and will bear their name and the number they assign" in terms that someone from early AD Roman Em
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I think Peter should probably have taken Time Travel 101 before writing Revelations and been a bit more vague.
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What have the Romans ever done for us?
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Metaphorically it is. Most are right handed, so most will present this card with their right hand, and certainly much like SS, most will remember the damn number because of frequent use, thus having it in their head.
I honestly expect the genuine mark of the beast to be something like "CC companies merge, create global electronic currency system accepted as legal tender worldwide." You know, something like what "cred" was in Shadowrun.
If you think about it credit/debit cards already have the traits of the
And INTERPOL wants to be in charge of it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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INTERPOL doesn't need global ID capabilities for its job.
Surely global ID would help them locate Assange more rapidly... snicker snort
Criminal Activity is IMPORTANT!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, theft and murder are bad, but a mass global ID means that anonymous existence will become impossible. Just think what access to such a system will mean to governments that run by dictators. Even the oh so sweet and trustworthy "democracies" will abuse this. Sometimes, it is important for the good of mankind to disappear into a crowd.
Re:Criminal Activity is IMPORTANT!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
The usual majority laugh at privacy and point at illegal immigrants and drug traffickers. "You have nothing to worry about unless you're doing something wrong", they giggle. They watch as the world police state clicks on. We're all safe behind the police walls, they agree.
Then the masks drop and our real bosses appear, and they ain't governments. And there is no where to hide. Forever.
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In a way, it's true today. If you do nothing wrong you won't have a police record. It's been working out fine... Pushing it to mandatory IDs though is a very... very bad idea.
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If you do nothing wrong you won't have a police record.
Police records are created the moment a person is charged with a crime. There are plenty of people who were found not guilty but still have police records.
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If you do nothing wrong you won't have a police record. It's been working out fine
If the government is honest and acting in your intrest, this is true. We try to protect certain rights so that the government can't screw us too badly when they're dishonest and out to get you.
Madison said it best:
If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.
I'm stunned by the number of /.ers who both complain that the US government has been corrupted by corporations, and avocate systems where we trust the government implicitly, often in the same post!
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You'd think that a bunch of self-proclaimed science and tech geeks would at least be self-consistent in their beliefs, but you're right.
It's odd how the government is "a police state" that's overrun with corporate greed and cronyism, hell-bent on subjugating the unfortunate citizens of the third world in a relentl
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Is peaceful protest "wrong"?
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Other countries do that, I think the reason we don't is simply that we consider ourselves better than that. We have a constitution which doesn't allow for individuals to be judge, jury and executioner. The closest thing to an exceptions are forcable felonies and certain cases where law enforcement is authorized to use lethal force. But in both cases it's a matter of practicality and the individuals have a clear ability to avoid it.
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The closest thing to an exceptions are forcable felonies and certain cases where law enforcement is authorized to use lethal force. But in both cases it's a matter of practicality and the individuals have a clear ability to avoid it.
Sounds like this would be a matter of practicality where a felony is taking place.
And here's a hint for those who don't understand how to avoid becoming a casualty of the system: DON'T GO INTO THE DMZ. Sounds like a "clear ability to avoid it" to me.
So, now that we've put this proposal smack dab into the middle of existing and acceptable procedures, what's the reason not to do it?
Clue: I'm not saying we should do it, just that your reason not to was already contradicted by your admission that there are
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I don't agree with the notion that we should kill border crossers, but I can at least see the logic. There is no logic in burying land mines to deter them, however. Not only is it a problem to future generations, but crafty criminals can harvest and redeploy them. Given the drug subs we've been seeing, would mine redeployment robots be a stretch?
People are crossing our borders because they are being employed and because of opportunities to move illegal substances. If you go after the people employing illega
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I really hope you're being sarcastic. But just in case you're not, or someone else thinks you're serious and that this is a great idea, here're the problems with this:
1) You're suggesting a capital punishment for a civil offense. That is blatantly unconstitutional.
2) Where do you propose we put these snipers and mines? The border is pretty much all private property, and large sections of it are range land for cattle. Something tells me ranchers won't be too hot about having bombs put out where their propert
it's not the card, stupid... (Score:2)
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Why do you need to prove who you are? Honestly. What services do you benefit from that require a global ID card?
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Why do you need to prove who you are? Honestly. What services do you benefit from that require a global ID card?
You know, if there were only some form of identification that would allow migrants and others to travel across national borders while allowing those nations the ability to identify criminals who want to enter their country ...
Wait a minute. It is called a "passport". We already have a reasonably global system in place. It appears that Interpol is looking for a system that is common enough between states that they can also check interpol records for criminal histories, as well as the individual country.
D
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I think the issue is that while in places like the US, and the EU, the reliability of the documents as proof of identity is pretty good, there are other parts of the world where it's basically just proof that they paid their fee or bribed an official. Some places for a nominal bribe they'll put whatever name you like on the documents.
That being said, I'm not sure this is the correct solution. And I'm positive that this solution scares me.
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there are other parts of the world where it's basically just proof that they paid their fee or bribed an official. Some places for a nominal bribe they'll put whatever name you like on the documents.
And the Interpol would solve this problem exactly how?
No self-respecting sovereign country would allow the Interpol to send agents to verify that the data is correct, they would still depend on people being correctly identified by their nation of residence or citizenship. Not to mention the cost of installing Interpol offices everywhere in the world.
Besides, even in the USA or EU it's not so difficult to assume a fake identity once you realize everything starts with a birth certificate, and birth certificat
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Did we miss the part about "migrants" and "border control"? If you don't want to be in someone's database, you probably don't want to travel to another country where they control their borders anyway because they'll be keeping a record of you entering, and that border is where you'd need this card.
But, as you said, these issues are already provided for with a passport. So why do we need a global repository to manage this? And why does <Country 1> need to know that I travelled to <Country 2> three years ago? Especially if my homeland is <Country 3>? Because that's the big difference I see in this.
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There is already a register of everyone with citizenship in Norway. It works quite well as far as I know and is used for verifying identity and not much more.
How is this going to screw me over exactly? Are there not already a myriad of registries you have to appear in to get anything done in the real world?
I personally prefer having a national registry like this compared to having to present a birth certificate if I want to prove my identity...
Dear Interpol, (Score:3, Insightful)
On behalf of humanity; "fuck off"!
And I want (Score:2)
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At birth (Score:2)
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Ummm... (Score:3)
But all of the pastor's I've listened to told me the Beast was going to come from the USA!
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That can't be right, Snooki was born in Chile.
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But she was raised in Jersey.
You can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can't take Jersey out of the girl.
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Hmm - never gonna happen (Score:2)
This reads like Interpol want more funding. Global ID cards will not effect illegal immigrants - they'll still be brought over to wherever in container ships etc.
If anything it will create a market for illegal ID cards in countries with less scruples - INCREASING the level of corruption.
What's wrong with the passport system we have already?
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That market already exists, I think that this will likely make little to no difference one way or the other. You'd still have to trust the documents that are issued by the officials in whatever part of the world the individual comes from. And I assume you remember how those bigots reacted to the documents provided to substantiate President Obama's citizenship.
Passports? (Score:2)
Isn't this what the current passport system already provides? Passports already have unique numbers, and there are existing standards about reading the mag printed strip and RFID tags in there now.
-molo
Let me be the one to say it (Score:2)
On behalf of all the forgers, ID-theives and other people who have to hold a damn lot of different forms of ID creation and their various security schemes at hand to satisfy all their customers:
PLEASE! MORE POWER TO YOU!
And while you're at it, at least condense it all into one big database, too. Hacking hundreds of national ones is really cutting into profits.
Cards get lost or taken away (Score:2)
...what?
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tattoos are for wimpy girls....
Branding or cutting it into your flesh with automated knives is more permanent.
Yeah and... (Score:2)
I want a pony...
Is interpol going to PAY for this?
self interest (Score:2)
Why I am always even more sceptical of any claims that "greater access to information and control is needed" (to paraphrase) when they then state it should be themselves doing it?
I keep finding myself wondering "needed by whom?", and why wasn't a relatively independent observer saying the same thing?
Wait, "enable cardholders to be eligible for electronic remittance schemes"... Soooo, Interpol wants unhindered access to all your international bank transfers? Oh I see.
Anyway, I imagine most of the participati
Yeah we should privatize it too... (Score:2)
Criminal Activity? (Score:2)
smart ones might.... (Score:2)
If they want this to take off, they would approach facebook and gmail and offer them some sort of deal for making this happen using their social network as a base to catapult this thing forward.....
Tunnel vision (Score:2)
So what. I do research with disease transmission among stigmatized populations and I've been saying for years that my job would be a hell of a lot easier if we just put a barcode tattoo on everyone at birth. I can even justify it by describing the advances in public health we'd be sure to get out of it. Does that make doing so ethical or desirable? Hell no, not even close. The problem with people like these is that they get caught up enough in the specific needs of their little world, and the specific
Only one word for this, but it's a big word. (Score:4, Insightful)
Even the United States, with its big-government push toward national IDs, has failed completely in that effort. The States won't comply, nor do they have any reason to. Interpol will never get anything like it in my lifetime. And for good reasons.
Electronic IDs are an illusion of security at the cost of real security. People put faith in them but they are hackable. The end result is that they go unquestioned, so those with hacked IDs can get away with murder, so to speak.
Every time somebody has said they have come out with an "un-hackable" ID system, somebody else has hacked it within a very short period of time. I do not see that changing any time soon.
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Cue ideas spinning in my head about hacking these and creating fakes.
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"Be good to each other" takes one sentence. The rest is rubbish.
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"Be good to each other" takes one sentence. The rest is rubbish.
Personally, I think Bill and Ted said it best: "be excellent to each other".
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The somewhat more long-winded version is Rabbi Hillel's summation of the Torah:
Do not unto your neighbor what you would not have him do until you; this is the whole Law; the rest is commentary.
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As far as I'm aware, the Star Trek world is anonymous. There is nothing in any of the shows where they connect to a local satellite and zoom in on someone taking a crap because they know precisely where they are or what they bought at the store.
In fact, I'd say that the ability to sustain oneself through technology would lead to more private lives where people could settle on a distant planet and enjoy whatever they like.
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Er, what ? They snatch people off random places on the planet (or in space) with transporters all the time !
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I know that in Washington State the issue with Real ID was more of an unfunded mandate issue. Also, it doesn't really DO anything for the citizens of the state. Washington does have an EDL* for those that want it which DOES provide value as we head up to British Columbia often.
Come to think of it, Real ID would would more likely hurt the state as most of our crops are picked by "migrant" workers.
*The enhanced driver license (EDL) or enhanced ID card (EID) confirms your identity and citizenship, and is an a