EFF Offers an Introduction To Traitorware 263
theodp writes "The EFF's Eva Galperin offers a brief primer on Traitorware, devices that act behind your back to betray your privacy. 'Your digital camera may embed metadata into photographs with the camera's serial number or your location,' writes Galperin. 'Your printer may be incorporating a secret code on every page it prints which could be used to identify the printer and potentially the person who used it. If Apple puts a particularly creepy patent it has recently applied for into use, you can look forward to a day when your iPhone may record your voice, take a picture of your location, record your heartbeat, and send that information back to the mothership.' She concludes: 'EFF will be there to fight it [Traitorware]. We believe that your software and devices should not be a tool for gathering your personal data without your explicit consent.'"
Traitorware (TM), Pat. Pending (Score:2)
Open Office Gave Up "Anonymous" Alex Tapanaris (Score:5, Informative)
Even well-intentioned software can backfire: Greek designer who issued “Anonymous” press release caught by metadata [newswhip.ie]
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Re:Open Office Gave Up "Anonymous" Alex Tapanaris (Score:5, Insightful)
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I didn't know that Open Office did this. It's not common knowledge.
Perhaps you live in a CAVE? Virtually *all* "office" type applications save meta data about who/what/when. If you didn't know this, you where not paying much (any) attention. It *IS* common knowledge.
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Neither did I. I thought only MS Office had it.
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It is. I learned it by exploring the interface of MS Word. So it is kind of obvious that Ood files would behave the same.
I mean, of course it is not common knowledge by the average user but it is know by the average geeky user who sets things up for their boss/family.
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http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q139432/ [microsoft.com]
"documents created in these programs may contain extraneous data from previously deleted files. This extraneous data is not visible within the document and does not affect your ability to use these programs normally. However, it is possible that legible portions of previously deleted files may be viewable if you examine these document files using Notepad or file-utility s
Xerox et al. (Score:3, Informative)
This is typically done by commercial colour laser printers,such as those made by Xerox, Konika Minolta, Ricoh, and so on. The code's printed in yellow toner - which isn't normally noticeable but becomes infuriatingly visible if you use these machines to print light coloured backgrounds - for example, a business card with a silver/light grey background tone. I don't know about Konika and Ricoh, but with the Xerox machines the code can lead right back to you pretty easily.
That said, the Xerox machines do some other interesting things as well - for example, they'll refuse to copy UK banknotes from the glass (presumably they identify the UV markers in the notes? amongst others. I assume this is either to reduce their liability if their machines were used that way, or due to a legal statute in one of their markets? Either way, interesting behaviour.
Re:Xerox et al. (Score:5, Informative)
That said, the Xerox machines do some other interesting things as well - for example, they'll refuse to copy UK banknotes from the glass (presumably they identify the UV markers in the notes?
More likely, they look for EURion constellations [wikipedia.org].
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I assume this is either to reduce their liability if their machines were used that way, or due to a legal statute in one of their markets?
The way I heard it, they had been threatened with regulations and statutes if they didn't voluntarily do these things.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
There's yer problem: (Score:5, Insightful)
without your explicit consent
Yup, there's the real issue. They can bury a one-sentence fragment within 52 pages of EULA that gives them "explicit consent." Someone will notice, it'll get a story posted on Slashdot, but still, only maybe one or two out of every several thousand will resist purchasing the next iPhone 5GSXT Pro-Air.
The root of the issue is the backtalk and walls of text used to placate users into 'agreeing' without understanding what rights they're sundering.
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The root of the issue is the backtalk and walls of text used to placate users into 'agreeing' without understanding what rights they're sundering.
That and the one-sidedness of the deal. If two people were sitting at a table negotiating a business deal and one of them said:
You can use my product, but I get to dictate how, and I get to rewrite this contract whenever I want, and, if you want to know the new terms, you need to check my website every day, and also, my product may not work. It may damage your equipment. It may yell racial slurs at your co-workers. Who knows? We can't find every bug, and we don't promise to fix it if you find one that we didn't.
Well, 9 out of 10 times. the other guy would walk out before the second sentence. But the "we dictate our terms to you" age has desensitized us to unreasonable terms.
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Flamebate this all you like /.'ers but frankly this is a bullshit, asshat perspective and it pisses me off.
At what point is it NOT laziness? 20 pages? 40 pages? 10,000 pages? How about 1,000,000+? My privacy should not be subject to whether or not I've taken the seconds/minutes/hours/days/weeks/years necessary to filter through, read and comprehend every line of small print just so I can protect my family from corporate abuse. That's akin to being taken hostage by legal process and absolutely NOT reasonable
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Data in EXIF is a feature that many people want. If they read the manual which they should be doing anyway they would know that it is there.
It's simple, you convert the images into a format that doesn't support metadata. There are plenty of programs freely available that will do this for you in batch, or you could do it manually.
A camera that captures metadata such as GPS location does not make it a privacy issue. People share data without checking what it is that they are sharing is a privacy issue
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And what happens when it's written in such legalese that only one with a law degree can understand. I believe all contracts should be written so a person of average education can comprehend it, and any contract that obfuscates itself with legalese should be invalidated.
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And who is going to pick which contracts are in legalese and which are not?
It sounds like something very hard to define.
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Unfortunately, the legal system still relies on the antiquated notion that people have a choice unless they're under duress. The problem is that if you don't agree to the terms of service for a bank, you're locked out of a lot of things. Probably won't be able to
The real issue is (Score:5, Insightful)
not that our devices embed information; but how that information is used. For example, having a geo location and serial number on every picture can aid in searching for images as well automating workflow (based on specific sensor characteristics). For me, that is good. Sending that info to the "mothership"" (sic), without my knowledge or permission, is bad because they have no reason to need that data; other than to sell it or use it for marketing.
I'd like to see companies that collect date require a more informed consent than burying it in a 50 page TOS agreement; and perhaps notification the first time teh data is sent.
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Sending that info to the "mothership"" (sic), without my knowledge or permission, is bad because they have no reason to need that data; other than to sell it or use it for marketing.
What are you talking about? When you installed the software you clearly indicated that you had read and understood the terms and conditions, which clearly stated that your camera software would be sending information stored in each image the camera records back to the camera company.
That little check box is legally binding. Some specific parts of some ridiculous EULAs are not legally binding, but on the whole they are legitimate. You gave them permission to do this, I don't see why you are upset about it
Re:The real issue is (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be true in an idealised fantasy world where everyone had infinite time, were lawyers, and were aware of the potential problems with EULAs. Back here on Earth...
EULAs aren't upfront. Nobody reads them and nobody expects them to be read. People couldn't understand them if they tried. They're created with that fact in mind:
EULAs aren't specific. They are to a lawyer, but for the people reading them the text is incomprehensible obfuscated gibberish. Clearly they don't give a shit about agreement since it's physically impossible for most people to agree:
Consent requires comprehension. Perhaps you've heard of statuatory rape, a law that employs this principle. Contracts are also supposed to require mutual understanding because the entire concept is logically incoherant otherwise.
But of course that wouldn't be convenient in consumer electronics. So it's ignored, leaving us with a nonsensical system that bears no relevance to reality whatsoever. We pretend to agree and they pretend we agreed. And everyone knows it's bullshit.
Except for the law of course. "Legally binding" loses meaning as a defence when the law itself loses relevance. A law which completely fails to take into account how society operates is a law that should not exist.
Therefore, EULAs are hokum, people are dumbasses, companies are shitheads and the law is morally wrong. Merry Christmas!
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"Either find some other way to use the device, or simply return the device."
There's a big, big hole in your theory. "Either find some other way to use the device" now often violates either the DMCA, patents or the companies last resort, the EULA. As far as returning the device, most of this applies to software which is pretty universally non-refundable. So the company gets your money whether you use the product or not. They're even successfully attacking the first sale doctrine so you can't even eBay it if you decide that you don't want to use it due to the EULA. As far as ot
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Sending that info to the "mothership"" (sic), without my knowledge or permission, is bad because they have no reason to need that data; other than to sell it or use it for marketing.
What are you talking about? When you installed the software you clearly indicated that you had read and understood the terms and conditions, which clearly stated that your camera software would be sending information stored in each image the camera records back to the camera company.
That little check box is legally binding. Some specific parts of some ridiculous EULAs are not legally binding, but on the whole they are legitimate. You gave them permission to do this, I don't see why you are upset about it.
If you actually care about your privacy, you should actually read the Terms and Conditions, in which they actually tell you what they are actually going to do with your private data. If there is something in there you don't agree with, don't check the box, and don't install the software. Either find some other way to use the device, or simply return the device.
Well, if you had read all may post you might understand what I am talking about. I never said anything about the validity of an EULA, or that I am upset about what is in them. I do think they could be more clear, and think that you should have a legal right to opt out regardless of what is in a EULA. BTW, I do read them and have not bought some products as a result. I also think that if you cannot read the EULA before purchase (and having it on a website would not be sufficient) companies should be requ
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IANAL, but clauses in a contract that which create a duty and/or burden on the customer which is generally unknown and/or has nothing to do with the normal performance of the contract are null and void.* It doesn't matter if they are hard to find, they could be printed in 48pt bold text right on the frontpage and it wouldn't matter.
I assume that sending your private info over to the man every time you shot a picture falls under that broad category.
*In the jurisdiction I live in. The Free Market Utopia a.k
A list of such products (Score:5, Interesting)
Is there a list of this kind of products? When I buy a camera or a printer I'd like to know which ones hide serial numbers or the like in the images they produce. EFF should maintain such a list, I think.
Re:A list of such products (Score:5, Insightful)
I like the fact that the EXIF data has the camera serial number. Over the years, I've used a number of different cameras. Even multiple versions of the same model. It's nice to have that information in the database. Giving it to anyone else is another issue entirely. But here again, the onus is on the individual to know how to deal with one's complex modern objects. For EXIF data, it's easy to strip entirely or individually.
What EFF needs to do is to bring this issue up to a level where 'normal' people at least understand the problems. It would be nice if manufacturers would give us the tools to control the flow of data better, but until the drum starts to beat louder, they have little incentive to do so.
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For the EFF to do that, there first needs to be a problem in the first place. As you point out, this data is actually quite useful (for EXIF). In the case of printers, it's also a non problem as far as I can see. (Though I'm certain that Slashdot's resident tinfoil hat brigade will be along in a moment with their far fetched scenarios 'proving' me wrong.)
What I see here is the EFF crea
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You can edit EXIF data too, which opens up some interesting possibilities...
Re:A list of such products (Score:5, Insightful)
Digital Cameras put this stuff in the exif data structures.
Add a GPS device to your DSLR and it goes in too.
Many Serious (both Pro & Amatuer) Snappers find this information really useful. Match the GPS up with Google Maps and locating where you took a particular shot is simple.
You can easily get rid of the data in the images you publish.
In fact this is useful to help you prove your copyright of the image.
So not all 'Traitorware' is bad to all people. There is a thriving marked for GPS Addons' to high end DSLR's.
Things like the Laser Printer data is IMHO worse that useless. Just but yourself a $50 inkjet, print the offending pages and junk it. After all, the replacment inks will often cost more than a new printer....
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Add to that the fact that some cameras actively advertis
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They have an incomplete list of printers. It is obviously hard to collect this information as I'm sure most companies aren't too eager to help. I would also imagine an updated firmware could add this 'feature' to a previously non-tracking printer.
It surprises me that the US secret service didnt ask MS to add this as standard to the windows printer code on higher quality prints (or even if certain watermarks/EURion codes are found..
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not true the fbi created the method... i fix copiers. no color copier is allowed to be sold in the usa without this dot pattern encoded in the image it is created in the print engine not from the image process even when the machine is internaly calibrating itself these dots are formed and visable on the transfer belt the only information encoded in the dots is model numbers and time and date that way if a faudulent document is found it can be traced back to the source ...one day the fbi showed up and took an entire machine as evidence when some funny money showed up...BTW most high end color copiers can detect money being prited on them and will actually code to the point where your local rep cant fix it and a rep from the manufacturer has to come in and reset it ...that how deep the rabbit hole goes my friend for the manufacture i represent there are only 4 people in the usa that can reset that code
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I don't know about cameras, but somebody else who replied posted something that looks promising.
Et Tu, GPS? (Score:4, Interesting)
How Much Information Does Your GPS Store About Where You Have Been? [poi-factory.com] So, is Max Speed on your GPS a bug or a feature?
but with ATT low download cap will apple force tha (Score:4, Insightful)
but with ATT low download cap / high data costs $10 a GIG will apple force that?
what about over seas up to $100 or more in data fees per location?
Hanlon's (Score:5, Insightful)
Dont attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Sometimes a software can be well intentioned, see a place where a lot of maybe useful information could be place and no look further on that, putting that in. Sometimes in some context that added information could be useful and intended, sometimes not, and you have not enough flexibility to decide by yourself when enable or disable that action.
Could the smtp protocol (and so every software that implements it) be considered traitorware? If you want to send an anonymous message it adds from which IP was sent, how different would be that from cameras that automatically adds gps coordinates in photos?
In the last term, a line between malice in this and what is not should be drawn, and will be very broad with a lot of things in the gray area, but would be good to have a list of what cleary is in the wrong side of it. And if well couldnt call traitorware all that is in the field of what sends somehow away information that could hurt your privacy, awareness of what they send and what exactly implies in that topic to use them, sometimes even in the manuals they warn which private information could be disclosed, well, that it be even the ones that don't disclose that.
Re:Hanlon's (Score:4, Insightful)
We put up with far too much of both. I see no reason not to treat both as malice.
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It's like the facebook issue. It doesn't matter how private the data is. What matters is how you share the data. Every other image editor has the checkbox that will allow you to strip metadata when saving the image, just like you don't need to upload that photo of you and a hooker onto Facebook, no
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When GPS is already included in your camera stops to be something that you must buy intentionally and install on it to be something that you could be aware or not. Take current smartphones, with both camera and gps functionality, that could show or not that they are using geotagging, and that even depend on the app your using are using for taking photos.
And not just the camera, where you can eventually check the metatags of a photo and see if there is something that you could not like. What about apps tha
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My point isn't that endless hidden metadata is bad, it is if the user's unaware of it. But the EFF's war against features that actively benefit users in electronics which are actively advertised and not buried down in some obscure section of the EULA is ridiculous.
I fu
Digital Photocopiers Loaded With Secrets (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/19/eveningnews/main6412439.shtml [cbsnews.com]
Do we need more words? (Score:3)
"EFF will be there to fight it [Traitorware]. We believe that your software and devices should not be a tool for gathering your personal data without your explicit consent.'"
This sounds a lot like spyware. Why do we need a new word?
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One is hardware, the other is software.
Oh Noes! (Score:2, Flamebait)
Apple's iPhones know where you are when you use the maps and Apple can gather that data and use it to launch missiles at you! Adobe Photoshop can use the GPS data encoded into your photos and send that info to the CIA who will visit those places and scrawl lewd graffiti about your sexuality in all the nearby bathrooms, thus ruining your reputation in the locality and preventing you from being elected to political office!
This would be a lot more of a story if they actually cited some real misuse of data ins
Re:Oh Noes! (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole point of the EFF is to think about such problems and issues before they become common; hence the 'frontier' in their title. They are trying to alert people to a potential situation so that people can be aware of it and start thinking about the implications, and formulate either consumer strategies or legal frameworks before there is wide spread abuse.
Your point is still valid in that you yourself may not be interested until there has been abuse, but to ask the EFF not to write about it until that point does not make much sense.
Look on the bright side. (Score:2)
At least the missiles they'll fire at you won't be made using itunes. Since its against the license agreement.
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Your retort sounds eerily similar to the 'if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide' chanters. Or, 'you conspiracy theorists are such nutters'.
You'll have to be more specific in your comparison. You see, the first phrase you cite is important because it refers to an argument that sidesteps civil rights, by trying to distract from the issue by trying to point to the number of people most affected will be small, as if that were relevant. As for conspiracy theorists... most are nutters. The reason conspiracy theories are considered dubious in general is because they require multiple disparate people to be secretly conspiring to hide a truth. For exam
I like "traitorware" (Score:3)
I read the article, and see nothing in the so-called "traitorware" that is objectionable.
I *like* cameras that incorporates metadata. This protects me from lawsuits and proves that the picture is mine and can be used however I want and as often I want. Because I can prove that the photo is mine through the metadata I have an easy way to defend myself in copyright and infringement lawsuits. For me the metadata is a selling feature and a benefit.
Printers that include tags on the paper that can be traced back to the person doing the printing I can also understand. People misuse printers to print out pedophilia (you are scum, and hope you are caught), counterfeiting (I like being able to use money, and hope you are caught), and threatening letters (my sister got several, and I hope you are caught). I just can't get that excited about anyone being able to trace what I print back to me. I can't think of a situation where I would care.
I don't own an IPhone (Droid), but I *like* the idea that it can send my location and heartbeat back to Apple. I'd have liked this on my laptop that had gotten stolen. I'd just call the police, and send Apple the police report. It would make tracking the device actually feasible, and maybe get some of these thieves to be arrested. Cars to some degree have this (called OnStar) and it's a big selling point. I refuse to get concerned about Apple wanting to listen to my heartbeat. Now if they would be so kind to implant the phone, monitor continuously, and notify medical help (and tell them where I am) if the heartbeat becomes arrhythmic and/or stops I would really appreciate that (heart problems is the leading cause of death).
How is this so-called "traitorware" an issue?
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From reading the comments, you and I are the only ones to RTFA. I believe EFF has leaped off the deep end.
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How is this so-called "traitorware" an issue?
Remember in university when you learned that argument from lack of imagination was a fallacy?
Remember in highschool when you learned that there was more than one side to an issue, and that issues generally aren't black and white even when you fully agree?
Remember in primary school when you learned other people had different preferences and sensibilities, that they didn't like everything you liked?
Combine them and *bam!*, understanding!
Re:I like "traitorware" (Score:5, Informative)
I *like* cameras that incorporates metadata. This protects me from lawsuits and proves that the picture is mine and can be used however I want and as often I want.
Sure, someone who wants to claim ownership of a picture would never be able to insert desired metadata in the file.
People misuse printers to print out pedophilia ... counterfeiting ... threatening letters ...
You forgot terrorists. They also use printers.
Yes, there are legitimate uses for all these traitorware features in software/hardware. The point is that these features should be opt in and disabled by default, so that people who truly want them can enable them.
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Sure, someone who wants to claim ownership of a picture would never be able to insert desired metadata in the file.
Sure, it has been done. Most notably demonstrated here [petapixel.com]. I only mentioned that the camera metadata protects me in case of a lawsuit.
There is a stock photography provider called Getty Images that looks for people that have been using their images without approval or payment. To those that infringe they send a RIAA-like letter offering a settlement if a fine is paid. I use a lot of stock photography (mostly through a different but well known and very legitimate site). When possible I use my own puny 6 megapixe
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Because I can prove that the photo is mine through the metadata I have
Or you're proving that you can edit metadata.
counterfeiting (I like being able to use money, and hope you are caught)
Last time I checked off-the-shelf printers can't print out shiny paper and holograms...
I just can't get that excited about anyone being able to trace what I print back to me. I can't think of a situation where I would care.
Printing subversive anti-government materials in oppressive regimes? Anonymously organizing a protest, strike, or other mass demonstration? Whistleblowing? (also, this last point applies to camera traitorware as well).
I don't own an IPhone (Droid), but I *like* the idea that it can send my location and heartbeat back to Apple. I'd have liked this on my laptop that had gotten stolen. I'd just call the police, and send Apple the police report.
Or, alternatively, how about an app that sends my location back to me? All the security, none of the privacy infringement.
I'm just waiting for the day of convergence... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bad thing #1: Locking down devices. Right now, people like the Dev Team jailbreak stuff within a month or two of release. However, eventually hardware chips will get added that are as hard if not harder than baseband modules to crack. Perhaps chips that "supervise" the OS, and if it runs something out of some strict parameters, the device gets shut down until taken to a $AUTHORIZED_STORE and fixed there.
Neutral thing #2: Phones do a lot. They acquire a lot of knowledge about the carrier.
Bad thing #3: Info by #2 is sent back home to carriers.
Bad thing #4: A combined push by LEOs and our *IAAs to find more info about people to start criminal or civil proceedings with ease. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that suing users in the thousands for having a song available, or snarfing a video clip was not thought of.
Bad thing #5: Ad providers being such a strong force. They don't just show disinterest in stopping malware payloads from being delivered through their networks, they want to add new vectors for infection using Phorm-like injectors. They will happily sell any information they get to all and sundry who have the cash.
Bad thing #6: The "piracy" bugaboo. This is a major excuse used for device lockdown.
Bad thing #7: No interest in anti-monopoly regulation.
Bad thing #8: Blacklists are in common use in the industry. For example, if someone gets banned from one casino in Las Vegas, they get banned from all of them.
Now, the day of convergence happens. All this stuff winds up merging. Joe User now buys a smartphone after all these converge:
Day 1: Joe goes out on a date with a co-worker to discuss business. His device notices that it is near other devices, transmits the GPS info to an ad agency. Joe's wife has a search tool that uses info gleaned from ad agencies to monitor where Joe is 24/7 even though his stuff isn't connected. She gives him a tongue lashing when he gets home.
Day 2: Joe visits a MMA place to see about casual sparring. The phone transmits the location, and insurance companies pick it up. They kick Joe off the health insurance because he is engaging in too risky pursuits.
Day 3: Joe posts a private rant on his favorite social network of choice about his job from his home computer. The social network has a top notch privacy policy and has no advertisers at all. However, Joe's phone has an app that quietly slurps up his posts, even though they are posted by another device and sends them to an ad agency. His work subscribes to an employee monitoring system which sends relevant posts if they have the company mentioned. His boss gets handed the rant, and Joe gets fired.
Day 4: Joe decides to go buy a dime bag because he has no job, an estranged wife, and no health insurance. He drives to a part of town that isn't too bad, but where the "upper" level distributers hang out. On the way back, Joe gets pulled over, his car searched and seized, and he ends up in jail. The local PD uses the ad agencies which keep track of all GPS settings of cars in the area, and has pattern matching. Any traffic pattern that is suspect gets an automatic traffic stop and the dog brought out.
Day 5: Joe's wife decides to file a divorce because she wants to move to someone who is making money. She gets someone to check the phone ad agencies and give her the goods on Joe. She serves him divorce papers via E-mail, and because the ad providers know when someone received the message, the E-mail stands up in court as a proper service, just as a visit from the constable.
Day 6: Joe is afraid of monitoring, so tries to flash a ROM without the 24/7/365 monitoring. The device auto-bricks, and he has to take it into an authorized store, pay $300 for them to flash a replacement ROM onto it. Essentially do a fancy version of RSD-Lite. Joe then uses a better utility that prevents the phone from bricking. However because it downloads a utility like su or Cydia, the cellular provider notices the communication between
Apple's non-removable batteries... (Score:3)
Good for aesthetics... ...apparently also good for preventing you from quickly disabling the phone once stolen...
It might take an unpracticed hand well over 5 mins of prying to get into the case before the battery can be pulled (assuming you did not want to destroy the device in the process)... you can upload a lot of data on a high speed network in that time... Apple will spin this as a feature which enables preservation of your important data prior to a remote wipe, of course it also has other uses...
The Shopper's Guide (Score:2)
'Your printer may be incorporating a secret code on every page it prints which could be used to identify the printer and potentially the person who used it.'
Which is precisely the audit trail your boss is looking for.
The same guy who buys the high end color printer that can produce a plausible counterfeit bill.
Laser printers (Score:2)
Oh Well. (Score:2)
Last month was my last check to the EFF. It appears they are firmly entrenched in the world of paranoid conspiracy theory now.
LTR Patent FTW..
Your digital camera knows your location? (Score:4, Informative)
Record your location? Sure, if it's a smartphone with GPS. For standalone cameras, GPS is not exactly a common feature. There are about two models of pocket digital camera on the market that have GPS, and not very many SLRs with it either ... go look. Those that have it make no secret of it; it's actually a big marketing point for people who want to record where they've been taking pictures.
As for smartphone models, I don't know about the Apple or Windows offerings, but Android's camera app exposes it as an option right on the main screen, next to the flash and focus settings ... and I'm pretty sure it defaults to off. People turn this on because they actively want it.
Rather than scaring people about what their devices might be recording, it would be a lot more useful to tell people how to find out what tags are on their photos. For instance, the Linux command line program "exiftags" will tell you this kind of stuff: (Picked from a random image file I had lying around on my laptop.)
Don't Forget Cars (Score:4, Insightful)
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Don't forget the Black Box recording in modern cars that rat you out to police, insurance companies, and the car companies themselves on items that are none of their business such as how fast you drive, and how long before the collision it was that you braked. You certainly didn't knowingly agree to this in buying your last car, yet it's common for your opponents to be able to get this data after an accident, insurance claim, even a vehicle warranty issue. THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED WITHOUT YOUR EXPLICIT CONSENT.
You car doesn't call the cops and rat you out for speeding; the data only gets pulled after a serious collision with airbags deployed. At that point it's a legitimate criminal investigation and not simply a matter of privacy.
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Well, if your bad driving was the cause of an accident, isn't it fair that you get punished for it?
There's far too many bad drivers out there, or drivers doing everything but pay attention to the road while driving, and I'd love for them to be scared shitless over being the cause of an accident, which makes them wake up and pay attention to their driving. No more cellphones, fiddling with the radio, lighting a cigarette, looking the girlfriend deep into her eyes, arguing with the people in the back seat and
You don't know me (Score:2)
Features (Score:3)
...you can look forward to a day when your iPhone may record your voice, take a picture of your location, record your heartbeat, and send that information back to the mothership...
Look forward?
I thought it was able to do these things already, and they were marketed as features.
Finkware (Score:3)
They already have your consent... (Score:3)
"We believe that your software and devices should not be a tool for gathering your personal data without your explicit consent.'"
Uh, they already have your "explicit" consent. It's buried in line 4,724 of the EULA that you never read. Don't feel bad, nobody reads those damn things anyway...
Re:Who really cares, though? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oooooh (Score:4, Insightful)
If your heart rate is elevated or you're palms are sweating, and you're close to an airport/school/gov office building/whatever, you might be planning an attack, why not just be on the safe side and have you come down with the nice men in black down to the local station for questioning?
Turn yourself in, before your own personal (not private) polygraph does!
Re:Who really cares, though? (Score:4, Insightful)
If your heart rate is elevated or you're palms are sweating, and you're close to an airport/school/gov office building/whatever...
Good grief! Maybe I'm just in the back of my window-less Econoline rubbing off a quick one! What's the problem?
Re: (Score:2)
"What's the problem?"
Lack of pics? (runs)
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Lack of pics? (runs)
Obviously you haven't been to my FaceBook...
Re: (Score:2)
-1, Paranoid
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Worse yet (Score:3)
In the state I live in, for example, oral sex is a felony even between man and wife (old
Re: (Score:3)
So what business does Apple have with my SSN that would benefit me?
People who respect freedom for its own sake care. (Score:5, Insightful)
You have no idea where the collected data goes and what inferences will be made from it. Since corporations don't care about your freedoms of speech, assembly, and other freedoms, there's no good reason to assume that the collected data won't eventually serve malevolent ends. Furthermore, the data is often collected without explicit announcement that it is being collected. The data is often distributed to others without explicitly getting consent on a case-by-case basis so the end user has an opportunity to decide that they trust one party but not another. It's very easy to let those who promote convenience and flashy presentation take away your freedoms; it's hard to regain your freedom after you've lost it. The solution, therefore, is to not lose your freedoms in the first place.
Re:Who really cares, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
So when I sell you a chair I should be allowed to dictate when and how you may sit on it, that you may ONLY use it to sit at a table and ONLY to eat your soup but not your burger? And when I sell you that burger, I should be allowed to dictate that you may ONLY drink MY soda while you eat it (I bet McD would love that!)? Yes, even if you order it to take it with you.
When I sell you something, I also have to relinquish the right to determine its use and purpose. If you take my chair and use it to juggle, I can't do jack about it. If you want to burn it, I can't say you must not do it because I invested so much work into it, you can't just burn it! I sold it to you. I surrendered every right to it to you.
Why the fuck should this be different with things like iPods and XBoxes? Because they're sold at a loss because its maker thinks they'll recover the loss with the add on gizmos? Then sell it for a profit! It's not my fault that your business model is flawed!
Protecting a flawed business model with laws is pretty much what kept communism afloat so long.
Isn't it inconsistent? (Score:2)
No, not really. Its invasive and wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
Fine but I want to know about it before I buy the product, I don't want them collecting this info by hiding the terms in smallprint and indecipherable legalese. If you have to hide the fact your doing it then you aren't doing it for my benefit.
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For background, here is the Wikipedia article on Corperate Personhood. [wikipedia.org]. I would like to raise the point that maybe corporations are just smoke screens for powerful individuals. We have to be careful to attack the Matidor, not the cape.
Re:Who really cares, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it inconsistent to deny this freedom to the companies that sell us these devices?
What about a person's right to not be secretly recorded, logged, tracked and monitored purely for corporate greed?
I'm pretty sure that AC was just trolling. At least, I'd really like to think so.
Unfortunately there really are a lot of people who, for some reason, will act against their own self-interests and vehemently defend this kind of intrusive surveillance. I believe the term for them is "useful idiots".
Throughout history, every time a relatively free nation became a brutal dictatorship, there were such people who welcomed it with open arms at least until it was finally their face smashed by a jackbooted thug. The GP might be one of those.
Re:Who rules America? (Score:5, Funny)
(p.s.: I'm being sarcastic, and totally agree with your post.)
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You speak like a conspiracy theorist, therefore you must be a terrorist! The news said so! (p.s.: I'm being sarcastic, and totally agree with your post.)
It's OK for this type of digital behavior in America, yet, it's also OK to go after Assange for the deeds of persons known and unknown to proliferate the issues of wikileaks. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander, so to speak. To be a patriot is to be a traitor. Go figure.
Re:Who rules America? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Now you know why so many people think Ron Paul is cool. They don't click on the links.
Re: (Score:2)
I clicked the link but didn't read the whole thing.. Although I don't see how it would change anything, I said I agree with what he pasted, I don't know what the rest of the article talks about, nor should I care really - I don't think the source of information should detract from its message.
Unless I missed something?
As for the Apple patent article from EFF, yes I did read it as well.
Re:Who rules America? (Score:4, Informative)
Well, the article is from a 'White Nationalist' (aka Neo-Nazi) magazine, National Vanguard, sponsored by the 'White Nationalist', National Socialist organization National Alliance. Most of the rest of the article after what the AC posted is a little more blatantly obvious as to what their message really is. Just sayin'.
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Of course, the article, written by the research staff at National Vanguard books, continues:
"For example, a racially mixed couple will be respected, liked, and socially sought after by other characters, as will
a “take charge” Black scholar or businessman, or a sensitive and talented homosexual, or a poor but honest and
hardworking illegal alien from Mexico. On the other hand, a White racist—that is, any racially conscious White person
who looks askance at miscegenation or at the rapidly dark
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You didn't include the important part of the link. All the stuff about how its the fault of the Jews.
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EFFing A!
Re: (Score:2)
Don't you think that Betrayalware would be a better term?
What exactly do you think a traitor is?
I'll help you out with the actual definition:
# someone who betrays his country by committing treason
# double-crosser: a person who says one thing and does another
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's also change "suicide bomber" to "bomb murderer".
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I don't care. Life is better with data. I would actually pay for a phone that records my heartbeat and location and communicates it to a trusted 3rd party. You know what, it might save my life.
Yeah, if it's sold to you that way and openly listed as a feature then I'd say buy it if you find it useful.
The subject of this story is the multitude of devices that record such data without your knowledge and without your consent and secretly send it to third parties you have no reason to trust at all.
Surely you can understand the difference?
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"I don't care. Life is better with data. I would actually pay for a phone that records my heartbeat and location and communicates it to a trusted 3rd party. You know what, it might save my life."
Crowdsource that monitoring function to 4chan for redundant backup.
Re:Paranoia (Score:4, Informative)
The East German gov flooded the area with agents as the fingerprints where not on file and someone had a printer and was using it.
Her husband "hung" himself in prison in 1980
http://www.laurahird.com/newreview/stasiland.html [laurahird.com]
The paranoia of a gov facing an unknown protester was very real
If your wondering where the stasi people ended up, the US did offer a lot of cash for their best and brightest.