Google Settles Buzz Privacy Suit 165
bouldin writes "This evening, Google e-mailed Gmail users who had been invited to Google Buzz to advise of settlement on a class-action privacy suit. The class action suit alleged privacy breaches due to the default privacy settings when Google rolled out the service. Terms of the settlement include $8 million to cover lawyer fees and fund privacy policy education on the Internet, but do not include cash payouts to Gmail users. With several outstanding class action privacy suits against Facebook and Zynga, it is interesting to see Google set this precedent."
I for one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I for one (Score:4, Funny)
The winners were users, who made a powerful, Microsoft-esque company that much more wary of violating privacy.
Re:I for one (Score:5, Insightful)
Some lawyers received $2,125,000 for suing Google and getting their clients (all american gmail users) no compensation at all. How can people tolerate the idea that a lawyer is profiteering in their name (if you use Gmail and are American you were included in this settlement). Class action lawsuits like this seem to exist as a way for lawyers to extort companies, it certainly had nothing to do with compensating the people who allegedly had their privacy invaded. I doubt if you asked the people who this lawsuit was in the name of they would have thought settling for $0 compensation, $6.275mil privacy group funding and $2.125mil lawyer bonaza was acceptable. In Fact how on earth is it ok for the lawyers to settle without the agreement of the person the suit is in the name of!?
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I agree completely. I think, as a group, we should OBJECT to the terms of the settlement because as the aggrieved parties, we were never in anyway contacted by the attorneys in question, never gave implicit or explicit permission for them to represent us, and are currently sharing none of the windfall. Some lawyer among us should draft and official response that we can all cut and paste. Ten or twenty objections will be blown off. Ten or Twenty thousand will not.
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I agree completely. I think, as a group, we should OBJECT to the terms of the settlement because as the aggrieved parties, we were never in anyway contacted by the attorneys in question, never gave implicit or explicit permission for them to represent us, and are currently sharing none of the windfall. Some lawyer among us should draft and official response that we can all cut and paste. Ten or twenty objections will be blown off. Ten or Twenty thousand will not.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
You can object all you want, and it will have NO effect. A settlement has been reached and that's the end of that ...
... HOWEVER, the email we all received includes a link that permits each of us, as an individual, to OPT OUT of the settlement. By opting out, we, in effect, each, individually, make the statement that "these lawyers do NOT represent ME, and I accept no blame or responsibility for this shyster-enriching settlement, nor am I satisfied with its outcome." As a
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... HOWEVER, the email we all received includes a link that permits each of us, as an individual, to OPT OUT of the settlement. By opting out, we, in effect, each, individually, make the statement that "these lawyers do NOT represent ME, and I accept no blame or responsibility for this shyster-enriching settlement, nor am I satisfied with its outcome."
I've looked - to completely opt-out (identified as "Exclude Yourself"), it appears you have to mail a letter. No quick link as in 'unsubscribe me'.
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IANAL either, but it strikes me as odd that any lawyer can purport to represent me in some legal affair without some consent from me. Pursuing legal actions on my behalf without my issuing of power of attorney is, in fact, illegal. I have to sign over power of attorney to my accountant to have him interact with the IRS on my behalf. How is this any different?
Typical In The US (Score:2, Interesting)
I read about something like this every couple of weeks. Usually the benefactor is our State or Federal government. I have even experienced this at a much greater scale.
About 5 years ago my wife needed some surgery. Our surgery was covered by my insurance. The doctor's staff reviewed our insurance and said we had "great insurance" and that they never have problems with our insurance.
Anyways, she had the surgery and a few months later we received a bill for over 10 thousand of dollars. Turns out that our
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They automatically notified anyone with an account (Score:5, Funny)
They sent me an automatic message into my two Gmail accounts.
Which were then, ironically, filtered into the 'Spam' folder automatically. How awesome is that?
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Precedent? (Score:5, Informative)
What precedent? Settling a privacy class action suit by promising to pay millions to fund some kind of privacy foundation, and no payment to individual users?
Facebook did that last year [circleid.com] when it settled the class action suit over its "beacon" program.
Re:Precedent? (Score:4, Insightful)
"oops, we harmed you. we admit it. our bad. So uh, we're legally liable for it, but we've decided to pay somebody else. you know, someone who's not you. just letting you know."
Re:Precedent? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Precedent? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I hear in Zynga's lawsuit their proposed settlement includes the ChickenHawk (+150 ATK,+150 DEF) for Mafiawars, and 10 free chickens in Farmville.
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Well I hear in Zynga's lawsuit their proposed settlement includes the ChickenHawk (+150 ATK,+150 DEF) for Mafiawars, and 10 free chickens in Farmville.
Zynga flipping their customers the bird again.
Alternate Headline (Score:3, Funny)
Google Settles Buzz Privacy Suit - Refund Issued to All Gmail Users
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You pay to use GMail. You just don't pay cash. You pay by letting them whore you to advertisers.
Google is an advertising company. The tech ventures are just the bait.
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I agree, and what is the problem? When I buy something from anyone else, I don't use it, and then demand my money back. Likewise, Google hosts emails for free, in exchange for the fact that they can look at them at any time and do with them what they please. Why should I be upset when there is a breach in privacy? The only difference between posting a message on Facebook, and sending an email through GMail, is that Google has better security settings. It would be ridiculous to use GMail for anything sensiti
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You pay to use GMail. You just don't pay cash. You pay by letting them whore you to advertisers.
Google is an advertising company. The tech ventures are just the bait.
Fine, so give them their ads back and you'll be even. 8^)
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"oops, we harmed you. we admit it. our bad. So uh, we're legally liable for it, but we've decided to pay somebody else. you know, someone who's not you. just letting you know."
Er..no.
It was a settlement, not a judgement against Google, so there was no admission of liability on Google's part. And, although I'm not privy to Google's internal discussions, I'd bet a shiny, new quarter - your choice of state - that, given the size of the settlement, it was merely a tactic on Google's part to make this particular group of legal parasites go the fuck away.
Again, IANAL, yadda, yadda, yadda ...
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Ok, true, it was a settlement, not a judgment, but the fact that they are legally required to tell us what they did and what their "punishment" is as part of the settlement is pretty much an admission of wrongdoing, wouldn't you say?
This is a company that prides itself on it's reputation. I don't think they'd have agreed to a settlement that required them to send out an email like that even if it was cheaper than an expected judgment... well, unless it was significantly cheaper by an order of magnitude etc
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- Dan.
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Lawyers and Consultants keep the cash! (Score:2)
Terms of the settlement include $8 million to cover lawyer fees and fund privacy policy education on the Internet
Lawyers: $8M
HR Consultants to teach "Privacy policy Education": Some token amount
Actual users who got @#$%ed: $0
There's justice for you. There needs to be a law established that in a class action suit, the lawyers can get no more than x times the average defendant payout.
Re:Lawyers and Consultants keep the cash! (Score:4, Informative)
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And hire some more lawyers to win a case that was already won?
Yes, that's a way better option... for the lawyers.
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And hire some more lawyers to win a case that was already won?
Yes, that's a way better option... for the lawyers.
Assuming Google caused you a higher loss than the amount you receive (and you can demonstrate the loss in the court), you can certainly go for it and cite this case in your suit.
If you didn't lose something, help me understand why are you complaining?
Re:Lawyers and Consultants keep the cash! (Score:5, Insightful)
What is the value of your privacy? How do you quantify the damage caused by loss of said privacy?
This is the problem with lawsuits that try to reduce everything to dollar amounts. That might be an objective measure in some sense, but the value of the most important things in life is rarely measured in cash, and often compensation for losing them can't be measured in cash either.
Re:Lawyers and Consultants keep the cash! (Score:4, Funny)
you lost your privacy?
hmm, have you tried searching on google?
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What is the value of your privacy?
Whatever value a jury places on it should you win a lawsuit, or whatever value you settle for. Same as emotional pain and suffering.
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I don't know how to answer the questions properly in a single post on a forum like this. You could write entire books on the subject of what privacy really means in an age of fast-evolving technology, what real dangers arise if it is given up or taken away, what "dangers" are more fear than reality, and so on.
One thing that is clear is that once privacy is lost, it is very hard and sometimes impossible to truly recover it. Thus the penalties for invasion of privacy in the first place must be a strong deterr
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The settlement agreement states that class attorneys are going to seek 25%. Where are you getting your $8M number?
even if they gave me money (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:even if they gave me money (Score:5, Insightful)
It shouldn't be up to the user to "learn about my privacy" and how to control it -- it should be incumbent upon the company that holds my personal data to not release it without my explicit consent. Revealing to the world who I chat and email with the most was not a smart move on their part.
If I post something on my Facebook wall, I expect the world to be able to see it - even if I've only allowed my "friends" to see it, I understand that I have no control over the data after my friends see it.
However, if I send a lot of emails to my ex-girlfriend, I don't want my wife to find out about it when she sees my Google Buzz followers.
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I think the issue is that, unlike Facebook, Google was probably an incompetent boob that simply fucked up.
Facebook we are quick to castigate because they have a record of instant updates to their TOS that let them have the right to screw over your privacy at any time.
Google, however, rarely does this. In fact a lot of the time they go out of their way to Not Be Evil, as is their company motto.
The phrase about malice and incompetence applies well here, especially with a company that doesn't have a soiled re
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I think the issue is that, unlike Facebook, Google was probably an incompetent boob that simply fucked up.
Google considered the issue and didn't expect the backlash it received. They did let you opt out of having all your contacts published, but it wasn't by default. They made a business decision in favor of populating the service over privacy.
Facebook we are quick to castigate because they have a record of instant updates to their TOS that let them have the right to screw over your privacy at any time.
Google retains those same rights.
Google, however, rarely does this. In fact a lot of the time they go out of their way to Not Be Evil, as is their company motto.
They had to be arm-twisted and cudgeled to start respecting user privacy. You can go way back to the flap over them not deleting email when the user requested it, or to the retention of IP addresses in their web logs.
especially with a company that doesn't have a soiled reputation.
You just haven't been
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I actually *am* North American, which is why I can't count on my government to protect my privacy like those in the EU where they have real data protection laws.
I don't understand the "racial joke" comment, are US citizens considered a "race" now?
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I don't understand the "racial joke" comment, are US citizens considered a "race" now?
Apparently it's the whole continent.
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So tell me, how many days of you get at google per year? :)
Uhm... what?
-1, Unintelligible.
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I thought it was a riddle at first :)
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It still is.
Re:even if they gave me money (Score:4, Insightful)
Look, I enjoy Google's products as well but I think you're missing the point here; Google Buzz automatically took everyone on Gmail and published their contact list to the public.
What kind of friend gives away your private information without your permission?
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Mark Zuckerberg?
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So what if I have a YouTube profile? Why would that give permission for Google to publish my contact list?
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Could you take your lips off Google's ass for a second and acknowledge that it shouldn't be the burden of the user to navigate a company's privacy settings just to avoid having their email history revealed to the world? There's a reasonable expectation that a product or service you use won't exploit you or your personal information. Not accepting the money just makes you an embarrassing corporate tool who is saying, "Feel free to disregard my privacy, Google!"
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Could you take your lips off Google's ass for a second and acknowledge that it shouldn't be the burden of the user to navigate a company's privacy settings just to avoid having their email history revealed to the world?
The user's email history was not exposed. The profile (account name) was.
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The profiles were a list of you were emailing most. In other words, a history of your email activity.
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Freakin lawyers, bunch of [my attorney has advised me not to complete this sentence].
I believe the term you are looking for is "motherfuckers".*
*This statement protected by the decision rendered in Falwell v. Flynt.
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Cry me a river, GodfatherofSoul
I will likely opt out. (Score:2, Interesting)
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Then I realized I have to actually write a letter or do something physically to opt out, and I gave up. Yes, you can see how deeply run my convictions.
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Get what you pay for. (Score:3, Insightful)
"...With several outstanding class action privacy suits against Facebook and Zynga, it is interesting to see Google set this precedent."
Just goes to show you that as with most free services, you get what you pay for. And they (lawyers) get what they "paid" for.
Lawyer Payment (Score:3, Interesting)
The lawyers are taking home 25% of the 8.5 million (plus interest), plus reimbursement of costs and expenses, according to the class action website [buzzclassaction.com].
Frankly, if I had to choose between a company keeping the money it has earned versus going to a random group of lawyers, I'd go with the former. Maybe I'd be more for punishing an organization financially if they were engaging in risky behavior and refusing to stop; however, from what I can remember about the incident, Google apologized and shut the thing down quickly (I'm not 100% on that, though).
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Maybe I'd be more for punishing an organization financially if they were engaging in risky behavior and refusing to stop; however, from what I can remember about the incident, Google apologized and shut the thing down quickly (I'm not 100% on that, though).
While I think the lawyers are just in it for the money for themselves and don't deserve this huge chunk of cash, an argument could be made that Google IS engaging in risky behavior and refusing to stop. I don't think any of this is an accident. I think Google (or at least someone at Google) tries to slip this stuff in just to see if they can sneak it by, then when users catch it they apologize and remove it and claim it was a mistake. The first time, sure, it may have been a mistake where some boilerplat
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Important: Read This! (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, this only affects US citizens.
If you used GMail after February 9, 2010 then you *must* opt out of this settlement or you will lose your right to sue Google for privacy violations - forever - with no compensation.
To exclude yourself from the Settlement, you must send a letter or other written document by mail saying that you want
to be excluded from In re Google Buzz User Privacy Litigation, No. 5:10-cv-00672-JW. Be sure to include your full
name, address, reason why you want out of the Settlement, as well as proof that you used Gmail at some point after February 9, 2010, your signature, and the date. You must mail your request for exclusion so that it is received no later
than December 6, 2010, to:
CLASS ACTION ADMINISTRATOR
In re Google Buzz User Privacy Litigation
c/o The Garden City Group, Inc.
P.O. Box 91088
Seattle, WA 98111-9188
You cannot ask to be excluded on the phone, by email, or at the website. An exclusion request is not a claim for payment.
Re:Important: Read This! (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think that's true. AFAIK, You only waive your right to sue Google for claims settled in this particular case. A clarification from a lawyer would be nice.
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What are my options? [...] Do nothing - Give up your rights to sue Google about the legal claims in this case and thereby accept the terms of this Settlement.
You do not forfeit anything other than for this case. And if they are lying, you have a new case anyway.
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That's good to know. I want to keep my options open should I ever decide to sue a mega corporation.
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If you used GMail after February 9, 2010 then you *must* opt out of this settlement or you will lose your right to sue Google for privacy violations - forever - with no compensation.
I'm not sure you get how class actions work. You can only lose your right to sue for the period that the class action referred to. Courts would never uphold a "settlement" in which the winners or unrelated parties lost their right to sue the loser ever, for anything, including unlawful acts that the loser was going to do in the future. You can only lose the right to sue Google for the specific privacy violations mentioned in the suit (i.e. the stuff they did right at the launch of Buzz).
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Sigh. *read the settlement*.
This is exactly the same argument we had back when Google Books got their settlement. Will you never learn?
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Sigh. *read the settlement*.
Ummm...I did? Because it was sent to me. Quote: "Give up your rights to sue Google about the legal claims in this case and thereby accept the terms of this Settlement." The legal claims in this case are the claims related to the specific privacy violations happening at a specific time that were brought up in the suit when it was filed. They are not "privacy, generally". As a matter of law, "the legal claims in this case" can never mean, "privacy, generally".
Will you never learn?
Will you never think logically? Or educate y
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* no, not class actions like this, and no, not class actions where the plaintiffs only get a coupon or something (actually in a lot of them a lot of individual plaintiffs got a lot more than I ever did out of them); slashdot's consensus about what class action cases are is really, really off-base.
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"slashdot's consensus about what class action cases are is really, really off-base."
Really? So you claim you've done a handful of more-legitimate class actions, and you think that overturns the common view of what class-action cases "are"?
Tell you what: enlighten us. What are class actions? Then we can all dig through our records for records of class action settlements that affected us, and see what percentage conform to your description vs. the /. concensus. I can already tell you which one covers 100%
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More importantly, I've had to read extensively cases on the subject, and yes, just because a view of an esoteric subject is common doesn't mean it's right. Just because 95% of people believe something doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
Tell you what: enlighten us. What are class actions?
Class actions are just regular civil cases where, due to th
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Yes, I've heard the term "selection bias"; apparently one of us knows what it means, and you aren't the one.
I'm not "selecting" the cases I'm looking at. I'm looking at every case that has impacted me in any way, and suggesting that everyone else in the discussion do the same.
If that's a biased selection, then what you're really saying is "yes, class actions that affect people are crap, but that's not a fair sample" (apparently meaning that we have to include all the cases that don't affect anyone).
When I
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Yes, you ARE "selecting" the cases you're looking at; you're looking at cases where you were a class member. You fit a very specific profile. You are more likely to be class members in certain cases more than others. How on earth could you make the enormous logical leap that what you experience must be the norm without looking at the
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Yes, I've heard the term "selection bias"; apparently one of us knows what it means, and you aren't the one.
What is it they say about pots and kettles?
I'm not "selecting" the cases I'm looking at. I'm looking at every case that has impacted me in any way, and suggesting that everyone else in the discussion do the same.
Definition of Selection Bias:
In this case, data is systematically excluded on the basis of not having happened to you, producing th
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"slashdot's consensus about what class action cases are is really, really off-base."
Really? So you claim you've done a handful of more-legitimate class actions, and you think that overturns the common view of what class-action cases "are"?
By tautology, the legal view of what a legal definition is overturns the common view of what a legal definition is.
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Sigh. *read the settlement*.
To put it in the actual terms of the settlement (where before I was using the terms of the class action notification): "This Agreement shall be the sole and exclusive remedy for any and all Settled Claims of Class Members. Upon entry of the Final Order and Judgment, each Class Member shall be barred from initiating, asserting, or prosecuting against Google any Settled Claims that are released by operation of this Agreement and the Final Order and Judgment." "Settled Claims" means any claim for the specific
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Nonsense. A settlement cannot bar one party from suing another for future misdeeds.
Opt out (Score:3, Funny)
Ironic that the only way to opt out of the privacy settlement is to mail in your full name, address, phone number and signature.
As a buzz user who cares about privacy (Score:4, Insightful)
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Presumably, by "protect their privacy online," you mean somehow knowing that Google is going to automatically link your Gmail account to Buzz and list your most emailed contacts?
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Presumably, by "protect their privacy online," you mean somehow knowing that Google is going to automatically link your Gmail account to Buzz and list your most emailed contacts?
I'm pretty sure Google stopped doing that as soon as there was a public outcry, even before the suit was filed, and isn't going to do that again if it cost them $8.5 million. But yeah, people should know these things and how to disable them. Would you prefer that Google automatically display your most emailed contacts and NOT tell you that or how to disable it?
I got one of these from Citi one time. (Score:2)
Settlement distribution? (Score:2)
Lawyers: $7,999,999.
Privacy Policy Education Fund: $1.
Buzz is public since beginning (Score:2)
I have used Buzz for a month now and I'm quite satisfied with its functionality. IMHO Google Buzz is way different from what we all thought and is much more sophisticated. Buzz is some sort like Facebook operates in Twitter mode, that is, conversations and social interactions are made in Facebook style, but the social connection model is Twitter's public follower/followee style.
I feel that Google Buzz was already designed for public communication since it is launched. Currently I'm following 90 people with
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I use Buzz differently, I don't follow anyone and at the same time keep adding auto-aggregate links so that all my tweets, blog posts (i have 3 blogs and counting...), youtube uploads, picasa photos etc get posted to Buzz. Then I just point people at my Buzz page, it summarises (most of) my public internet activity in one place. Handy for new friends and stalkers alike
Amazed Google Did It In The First Place (Score:2)
People signed up for Gmail without any expectation that their address book would be used to distribute information about their habits. Google did that, did it without permission and even did it without notice.
I'm amazed that Google thought that people wouldn't have a problem with those moves.
My guess is that there was a socially retarded executive at Google who thought people would like it, had enough power to silence the common sense wielding opposition to push the release of Buzz through.
To Googles credi
Prece-what? (Score:2)
"With several outstanding class action privacy suits against Facebook and Zynga, it is interesting to see Google set this precedent"
That is, of course, unless you know the first thing about the law. In that case, you are aware that one defendent deciding to settle doesn't set a precedent at all for other defendents in separate lawsuits (even if the nature of those suits is similar).
Between that, my lack of interest in suing Google over this matter, and my general antipathy toward class actions in practice,
They offered me, a Gmail user, a cash payout (Score:2)
Nonsense! They offered to refund every cent I've paid them for my Gmail service for the last half-decade I've been with them, which totaled to $0.00.
Re:Official link (Score:4, Insightful)
Follow the link provided in the email and then press "FAQ" on the website. RTFE(Read the fucking email).
So your method of confirming that an email is real is to click on links in said email. Flawless.
Re:Did I miss something? (Score:4, Informative)
The point is, if you used GMail, you were signed up for Buzz without any warning - If you never "used" Buzz, you still had a public profile, listing everyone you "follow" - which by default was the people you e-mailed the most.
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Because Lawyers need to eat.
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Because Lawyers need to eat and don't like fighting over carrion with the flying vultures.
FTFY.
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I personally have a problem when I live in Georgia and a California judge arbitrarily lumps me into a class action without my consent. The simple fact that Google believes they can avoid a major problem by misleading people into believing that a California judge has the power to take away your rights arbitrarily is disconcerting. No matter whether you send in your letter, if you do not live in California, you are not binded to this class action unless you specifically stated so, and even those that live in California have a right to object, because no judge can force a ruling upon subjects, no matter how many options he/she proposes to make his ruling seem legit.
[citation needed]
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