FTC Busts Domain Name Scammers 125
coondoggie writes "The Federal Trade Commission said today it had permanently killed the operations of a group that it said posed as domain name registrars and convinced thousands of US consumers, small businesses and non-profit organizations to pay bogus bills by leading them to believe they would lose their Web site addresses if they didn't. As with so many of these cases however, the defendants get off paying back very little compared to what they took. With today's settlement order, entered against defendants Isaac Benlolo, Kirk Mulveney, Pearl Keslassy, and 1646153 Ontario Inc., includes a suspended judgment of $4,261,876, the total amount of consumer injury caused by the illegal activities. Based on what the FTC called the inability of the settling defendants to pay, they will turn over $10,000 to satisfy the judgment."
DOA - Domains of America (Score:2)
I used to get mail from these jerks all the time.
It must have profitable as they spent a fortune in postage.
Crime Pays. (Score:2)
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Only when you break the laws big time. Petty thieves are often fined more than these guys are paying. Small minded vandals pay more. Tax cheats pay more. If you want a good deal when you go to court, you have to steal millions, or billions. A few thousands make you a nobody.
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Are you trying to trick me?
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I also used to receive postal mail from these guys, but haven't seen anything recently
On a somewhat related note, I have noticed that the fake lottery scammers and 419'ers seem to have migrated from email to actual physical postal mail. It's not a lot (over the last year I've received maybe 4-5 of them) but it makes me wonder whether these scams are actually lucrative enough to cover the cost of postage (often from overseas). The other possibility is that these scammers have figured out a way to hack the po
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DROA (Score:5, Informative)
That would be DROA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Registry_of_America [wikipedia.org]
I got their invoices all the time. Good for a laugh at least. I'm sure they scammed thousands.
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They apparently also run The Domain Registry of Canada. I received a bunch of letters from these scammers. These guys have scanned the one they received.
http://www.sibername.com/support/droc.php/a [sibername.com]
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And they've given me, who runs The Domain Registry of Slovenia, a bad name.
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Granted, 1and1 isn't a great host (and I've got my eye on a new host/registrar), but there hav
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They caused over $4million in damages and had to pay a fine of $10k.
It might be profitable, yes.
Re:Headline (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, like putting them into the automatic mail sorting system.
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Thinking more about the problem, probably some size adjustments of the subjects would be necessary, and adding more horsepower to the machinery seems also unavoidable. But yes, the desired result is achievable.
What happened to debtor's prison? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:What happened to debtor's prison? (Score:4, Informative)
In the latter one, the taxpayers fund your stay. In the former, you have to fund your stay WHILE paying back what you owe. They were outlawed because people would never be able to get out of debtor's prison.
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What do you mean 'taxpayers fund your stay'?
You still have to pay the prison that kept you back for the time you spent in it.
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meaning, your tax dollars are spent on feeding, clothing, and giving immediate medical care to incarcerated felons.
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you are correct. and there is also an absurd condition that happens in those states when a person is exonerated.
I recall a year or two back the story of a guy who spent a sizable (5yrs?) duration in prison before he was found to have been convicted on bad evidence, bogus testimony, fly in the typewriter, etc.
Anyway, this guy was found to be wrongly accused and totally innocent. He was released and cleared of all charges. Not just had his sentence commuted, but ALL charges dropped, apology from the DA, etc.
S
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So he is released with a handshake and apology from the warden, only to be told "oh, by the way, about that room and 3 squares a day we gave you for the last few years... Here's a bill for your stay. Will that be Visa, Mastercard or Discover?"
I'm sure the wrongful conviction lawsuit will cover that, with a few million left over.
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Possibly, but since the prison can charge anything they want and you're forced to accept their offer, it may not be.
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They have a nicer letterhead?
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The provision that prevents our congressmen from being stopped and prosecuted if they are on their way to a session of congress exists for similar reasons. Also the th
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Debtor's prison does not exist in the US
Did you know that if you bounce a check at the casinos in Vegas they'll throw you in prison if you can't pay your debts?
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Bouncing a check isn't the same thing. That is more like lying about how much money you have.
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However, "they'll throw you in prison IF you can't pay your debts" does not really describe debtor's prison. Debtor's prison is when they'll throw you
Barbaric and unnecesarry (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with debtor's prison is that people can fall into debt for all sorts of reasons ranging from maliciousness to recklessness to just plain bad luck. Do you really think that someone who can't pay their bills because a hurricane destroyed their house and their place of employment should be put in prison?
What you are looking for is thieves' prison and last time I checked we already have those. However, AFAIK [ftc.gov], the FTC doesn't have the authority to prosecute criminal cases, just levy civil fines. Inst
Blame Canada (Score:2)
1646153 Ontario Inc.
I wonder if they trademarked that number? Epic spammer business name is epic.
Re:Blame Canada (Score:5, Informative)
Not to detract from the humour.... If you incorporate without a name, you get to be known by the serial number associated with your incorporation.
There was a similar scam in Canada, with some registrar sending out renewal notices to other registrar's customers. I forwarded one to the RCMP fraud division, and they said it wasn't technically illegal so they wouldn't do anything.
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Re:Blame Canada (Score:5, Interesting)
I forwarded one to the RCMP fraud division, and they said it wasn't technically illegal so they wouldn't do anything.
You know, that's the RCMP's answer to everything. I have sent them so many tips on how to catch these guys - from the phone numbers they call from, the email servers they use, the post box they send from, and even how I as a regular citizen was capable of tracking all that info to at least a common city - if not an address that they could raid.
However, there is nothing I can do, and the police all claim that this kind of cyber crime isn't in their jurisdiction, so no one does a damn thing about it. I had someone sending me emails saying that they were going to sell me medical records for a low cheap rate - which already sounded sketchy enough as is but I decided to follow it through on the premise that if this was someone illegally selling that kind of stuff I could aid in his capture.
However, the RCMP basically told me that until they actually sell it - it wasn't enough for them to go on, and that following through would make me a criminal for purchasing it, and that they weren't capable of following the lead. That was the day I lost my faith in the legal system.
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You know, that's the RCMP's answer to everything.
Not true, not true. If you pie a politician [youtube.com], you'll get a very very stern talking to from the RCMP.
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This sounds like a good reason for masked heroes to exist.
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I could burn through that much money just by having my dream home built.
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Which is a physical asset that can be seized and sold.
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I could burn through that much money just by having my dream home built.
Which is a physical asset that can be seized and sold.
Not if it's made out of dreams.
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True, but the FTC doesn't seem to believe in civil asset seizure (much like DA's in drug cases do).
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Sure, but is that nest egg able to be discovered by the lawyers? When you have that mush cash, it can't be TOO hard to figure out/find a way to hide some of it offshore.
Also, easy come, easy go. A lot of criminals spend cash like there's no tomorrow, because they know if they get caught, they forfeit it.
Besides, if I was an evil mastermind with untold millions, I'd spend it
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It's really not that difficult to make illegally-gained money "disappear". For example, overpay for fictional services provided by businesses set up by people who aren't officially tied to your main business. It's a lot harder to prove that money paid for, say, marketing consulting wasn't legit, at least without launching a full-scale investigation into the company that supposedly provided it. If that company is actually semi-legit (but happens to be taking a kickback, or has the perp's wife's sister-in-
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Good accountants truly are undervalued.
Also in the News: (Score:2)
FTC outlines new business model.
Hey guys, I'm the cyber police and you've all been backtraced. Hand me your sloshdat credentials or your consequences will be permanently altered.
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In order to prevent anyone *else* from seeing my sloshdat credentials except for you, I have transferred them directly to your computer and hidden them in a special file called
Not debtor's prison (Score:4, Interesting)
In due time... (Score:2)
It wasn't that long ago that stealing a man's horse was a hanging offense, and in most circumstances you were given wide latitude to use deadly force to defend yourself against theft, precisely because loss of resources like a horse could imperil a person's life.
Our era of bounty and consequence-free living is nearly over, though, so you can rest easy, it won't be long before we will be living in an era where these guys will get what they have coming to them.
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You're saying that since we have such comfy lives, we don't punish people for taking some of our stuff, since it's easy to replace.
I get the feeling that you're referring to some kind of resource scarce apocalyptic scenario where Thog hits Grog over the head with a relic broken-off parking meter[1] because Grog tried to take Thog's supper?
I
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The rules regarding theft of property and the use of lethal force (which in today's language is nearly any force, not just the use of firearms or dangerous weapons) have really changed radically since the mid-1960s.
Prior to the mid-1960s, the law appeared fairly soundly on the side of theft victims. I trolled the back issue database of the NRA's "Armed Citizen" column and was surprised to see a ton of stories from about 1965 and earlier where theft victims shot thieves *in the back* as they ran or even *dr
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I think it's a little far-fetched to say the law was soundly on the side of theft victims. I think the reality is that the law, as w
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More like a thorough drubbing for discretion and judgment. Zero tolerance is another symptom.
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So you believe that possessions are more valuable than a human life? Really? Wow, that's some scary morality you have there. I sure hope you're not Christian, because that doesn't fit in with Christian morality.
Yes. I've never heard that phrase every week... not when I was young, not when I was fresh out of college, and not in the ensuing 15 year
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So you believe that possessions are more valuable than a human life? Really? Wow, that's some scary morality you have there. I sure hope you're not Christian, because that doesn't fit in with Christian morality.
My life is more important than someone elses possessions, that's why I don't steal.
My possessions are more important than someone elses life, that's why I wouldn't feel bad about shooting them.
I wonder how much of every dollar spent in society is wasted on securing things needlessly. If I buy a $200 bike, I need to buy a $20 lock and a quick release seat and front wheel. Plus home owners insurance to secure it.
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Let me guess: You're a Libertarian?
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Exodus is Old Testament. The New Testament supercedes OT for Christians (I'm not one either) :)
Well, now y
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Maybe people who didn't steal anything, were getting shot. "I shot him and then took my wallet back off his corpse." The guy who got shot can't present his side of the story. How is anyone to know who the victim was and who the criminal was?
If it's ok to kill criminals, then it makes a lot of sense for you (who doesn't intend to be a criminal) to wonde
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Depends on the level of 'resource scarce apocalyptic scenario' you're talking about. Read the book One Second After (EMP takes out all electronics in North America and elsewhere).
Small towns - a week, followed by an uneasy local truce. Urban areas - 1-2 days.
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Sounds fascinating.
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I was in Enschede when the fireworks storage exploded in 2000.
Aside from the really bad devastation to the surrounding area, the blast also broke pretty much every window in the inner city. Within less than 5 minutes people were looting from the stores that had thus been exposed.
The layer of veneer between our civilization and the return to good old "my club is bigger than yours so hand over everything you have" barbarism is very, very thin indeed.
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I was just thinking that the reason we're living in such an impolite society is because the penalty for cold-cocking someone for being rude is so huge.
It's that way in Hawaii. and many Polynesian islands: if you're rude to someone they might knock you out and no one will think anything of it. People are a lot more polite to each other, too, and a lot more obviously friendly. A lot of times when people talk about the 'aloha spirit' I think what they're really seeing is the, "don't hit me brah" spirit.
On the other hand it is nice to walk to the street and not have to worry if someone's going to hit you in the face or not. You take your trade-offs: eithe
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If history is any guide, when going gets tough, robber barons live like nobility and the rest of us live like serfs. So no, these guys won't get what they have coming to them, because the less wealth Joe Average has, the more guards, lawyers, judges, policemen and political influence Joe Robbers ill-gotten loo
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The settlement order, entered against defendants Isaac Benlolo, Kirk Mulveney, Pearl Keslassy, and 1646153 Ontario Inc., includes a suspended judgment of $4,261,876, the total amount of consumer injury caused by the illegal activities. Based on the inability of the settling defendants to pay, they will turn over $10,000 to satisfy the judgment. The default judgment order was entered against defendant Steven E. Dale and includes a judgment in the amount of $4,261,876.
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No they should be hung on a 20' pole for all to see. Photographs should be distributed to all newspapers.
and with the facebook generation. They would say "Cool look at me, I'm in the paper" the problem with many of these types is they have no shame
Another pointless FTC slap on the wrist (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, I don't know why the FTC even bothers. If these clowns aren't criminally prosecuted, what exactly is the point? $10k, and an order to Go Forth and Sin No More is just a waste of time.
And the "Go Forth" orders are routinely ignored... I think Kevin Trudeau has been slapped by the FTC for infomercial scams no less than three times, and he still doesn't give a $hit.
SirWired
Re:Another pointless FTC slap on the wrist (Score:5, Insightful)
Riddle me this: Why is it that these guys get their judgement whittled to $10,000 for doing an active crime with victims, while some guy who left a directory full of songs on LimeWire gets stuck with a multi-million dollar amount that the only way it can be discharged is an immediate bankruptcy... and most likely a judge would turn that down?
Yes, IP violations are crimes, but scamming people out of money is a far greater crime than downloading the latest remix of "Oops I Did It Again."
I wish the FTC would have gone whole hog on these people, wage garnishment, tax return attached, property seized, etc. so the fine is paid.
Re:Another pointless FTC slap on the wrist (Score:5, Insightful)
The obvious lesson here is that if you *MUST* either download a song, or scam thousands of businesses out of hundreds of dollars each, the federal government wants you to NOT download the song. Why else would the punishment/fines be higher?
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the obvious lesson here is: if you must download a song, scam thousands of business out of hundreds of dollar each, buy all the songs there are, and save just enough for the fine the courts will slap on you.
obviously the government wants this - must be something to do with keeping money sloshing around boosting the economy or something, so go knock yourselves out. I believe the Domain Registrars Association of America business is still available.
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Why is it that these guys get their judgement whittled to $10,000 for doing an active crime with victims, while some guy who left a directory full of songs on LimeWire gets stuck with a multi-million dollar
Money buys good lawyers. Good lawyers can make a person innocent or incriminated on demand. Legal battles are like real battles in one respect though -- the result isn't predictable and guaranteed just by using overwhelming force. A low-power, underfinanced, disadvantaged opponent can sometimes be very resourceful. Vietnam won, in the end. The music industry isn't winning, in spite of lawsuits. Microsoft is still winning, though, nobody's managed to circle the wagons quite efficiently yet.
A Good Lawyer (Score:3, Funny)
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Really? I thought they were just a civil matter, not a criminal one.
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Such a dreamer [copyright.gov] you are.
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That actually is a very good question. I think it's because people don't have any effective lobby groups; unlike the RIAA/MPAA/etc. people just get to vote, which has become quite meaningless.
If you study the history of rebellions, they were all rather organized. No organization among people means they are accepting, not rebelling. Businesses and money runs the government, and people "just work here", and "just live here", basically doing nothing other than contribute their labor and money to their masters.
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the 10k is to pay for the legal process. its call payola
It is better than nothing. (Score:2)
No, it *IS* nothing. (Score:2)
Note that the operation was shut down and the people involved are likely going to have problems starting up a new scam now that they've got this record.
Bullshit.
These clowns *ALREADY* have a record of scamming, and it hasn't stopped them yet. There is no realistic reason to assume that a 10k fine means anything at all to them.
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You call this progress? I call it a big fat advertisement for would-be fraudsters. "Make millions! Pay $10k and do no jail time years later!"
You've got to be joking (Score:2)
WHAT record? WHAT problems? The only record there was ever a problem is this FTC press release, and attached orders. All the scammers have to do is pay their 10k, and then set up shop again using different names.
And do you know what happens when they get caught again? (The FTC has a lot of repeat offenders.) They'll get another, virtually identical court order. The second one will not only "enjoin" them from violating the law, but will also order them out of the business entirely. If the FTC is feeli
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sounds more like a shakedown than a punishment.
a TRUE punishment would be "According to our investigation you made exactly 4 million dollars pulling off this scam of billing people fraudulently. As punishment you owe us $4,010,000 in penalties, PLUS JAIL TIME."
"Attention consumers: Anyone who can produce proof they paid these yahoos please come forth with your cancelled checks, etc for a full refund."
now THAT would be a punishment.
Just for the record, that $10k/4M ratio isnt even a slap on the hand
How profitable is this really? (Score:2)
Wrong business (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's TRUE! You're in the wrong business!
Send $1000 to the address at the end of this posting and I'll teach you what business you SHOULD be in if you want to MAKE MILLIONS!
Discontent (Score:2)
Lately the talking heads have made a lot of news about growing discontent with the U.S. federal government. To some extent I've written that off as muck-raking by Fox, CNN, Republicans, etc.
But I've got to say, it really does seem like the government is failing at very basic issues regarding law enforcement, especially with letting white-collar criminals get away with pretty much anything.
Are things actually getting worse in that regard, or has the problem existed to this same degree for many decades now?
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Amusingly, most white-collar criminals are actually republicans.
Amusingly, most white-collar criminals are actually democrats but spread the myth that such crooks are mostly republicans. B-)
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Amusingly, most white-collar criminals are actually republicans.
Amusingly, most white-collar criminals are actually democrats but spread the myth that such crooks are mostly republicans. B-)
Amusingly, most white-collar criminals are actually indifferent to political party and will claim whatever political affiliation they think will get them the maximum amount of leverage/sympathy/etc. possible. :-P
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problem existed to this same degree for many decades now?
Some things have become worse, some things have become better, usually over a long period, quick changes are rather rare. I believe the mistake of the current government is that people were led to expect some kind of a massive change, although it was never promised or said in any way. But now they are wanting it. In any case, people don't really know what they want, and the politicians don't either, at least not in terms of a political and social proposal. Everyone wants money, and cares little about any
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Well nuts (Score:2)
Further proof that if you want to commit crimes... (Score:1)
in the U.S. that you must first incorporate and go after the peoples money. Never commit a crime against the government or against a corporation unless you want the full weight of the law brought down on your head.
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in the U.S. that you must first incorporate and go after the peoples money. Never commit a crime against the government or against a corporation unless you want the full weight of the law brought down on your head.
Yeah, that's usually the case. These guys did most likely send domain invoices to rich people too though.
Just post their full address and contact info (Score:1)
My boss got suckered. (Score:4, Interesting)
Our domain was up for renewal in September. In July we get a letter from Domain Registry of Canada (Domain Registry of America is their US version). Looking like a normal and official bill, the boss paid it by VISA despite it being nearly 10x what a domain registrar should be charging. The next day I'm going through the paperwork and find the DROC invoice. I'm baffled because they are not our domain registrar. First thing I do is call our real company and confirm that the domain is still locked. I also renewed at the time just to make sure. I then called DROC and after a few minutes on hold I was assured that the charge was cancelled. I contacted VISA the next day and was informed that the charge had been cancelled. They seemed to be pretty routine and mechanical about cancelling people though I imagine a few people never realized they had been suckered.
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Hurray For Crime! (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently the courts and the FTC actually seek to encourage crime. How is it with the overwhelming number of useless laws on the books that we do not have a single law that states that the wrong doer must always pay back more than was taken?
Oh them. (Score:2)
Good to hear they got what was coming.
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You don't say (Score:1)