Tokyo Rail Billboards Scan Viewer's Age, Gender 235
eldavojohn writes "The AFP is reporting on digital billboards in Tokyo that scan for a viewer's age and gender to tailor the message to them. It's a Digital Signage Promotion Project that 11 railway companies are debuting. The head of the project said, 'The camera can distinguish a person's sex and approximate age, even if the person only walks by in front of the display, at least if he or she looks at the screen for a second.' Philip K. Dick's Minority Report draws closer every day."
Stop, Citizen! (Score:3, Funny)
::pause::
OK, move along.
Re:Stop, Citizen! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Stop, Citizen! (Score:4, Funny)
Quick! Everyone put on Larry King masks so all the billboards turn into adult diaper ads!
No, everyone put on "interkin3tic" masks, so we can get all the billboards to turn into weird hentai ads!
Just, let's please come to a consensus, all one or the other, because if we half do Larry King and half do me, we're going to get wierd hentai ads featuring adult diapers. And there are some lines even I don't want to see crossed.
Re:Stop, Citizen! (Score:5, Funny)
Methinks he dost protest too much...
hmmm (Score:2, Interesting)
waiting for it to call you a female and you are a male...
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
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This is Japan we're talking about. Have the system identify all males as tentacle monsters.
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Re:hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd assume that when the detector cannot discriminate, a general advertisement should come up.
I could come up with a basic list of what could be shown: Old man: viagra
Middle age man: sport cars
Young man: condoms
Old woman: Body lotion
Middle age woman: gym equipment or subscriptions
Young woman: tampons or female hygiene products
man (unable to discriminate age): cars
woman (unable to discriminate age): magazine subscriptions
young (unable to discriminate sex): video games/soda
middle aged (unable to discriminate sex): banking products
old (unable to discriminate sex): vacation spots
unable to discriminate age and sex: consumer electronics/cellphone plans
Now, group these categories and show something different every time.
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OK, TFA has absolutely no details, but I think all it's doing is recording information about the demographic that looks at the billboard, thus allowing the billboard owner to say: "57% of the people looking at this billboard are male, 18-35 years old" and then pick an appropriate ad for the space.
The issue with this, of course, is that if you have a billboard showing some iteration of rule 34, a certain demographic is going to look, and you'll get the impression that only this demographic looks at ads, and
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But TFA says nothing about going so far as gathering information on who is actually looking at the billboard, only who is present. That's a pretty significant difference and they don't fall into your positive feedback loop. Also, even if you see that 57% of the audience are male, 18-35, you'd still want to reach out to the rest about 43% of the time.
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D'oh. Never mind. It does say they have to look at the ad, at least for a second.
Re:Crossdressers/transgendered? (Score:4, Funny)
Since the system is being developed in Japan, we know that crossdressing guys will be identified as evil because of the Square-Enix rules [gawker.com].
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Come see Dr Okawa, voted best plastic surgeon by surviving patients in the greater Kyoto area! Free consultation! Mention this billboard and save 5% off all elective procedures!
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I can see a couple scenarios:
1) TG (Transgendered - using as umbrella term for Transsexual, Transvestite, Crossdresser, etc) is presenting in chosen gender and is identified as their genetic gender. Annoyance at first, then anger over a contant reminder of their genetic gender.
2) TG is closeted. Targetted adds begin to cause doubt among TG's companions regarding their identity eventually outing them.
Really, the next issue with facial recognition is the killer - Ads for dresses or heels naming you and talkin
This can't end well... (Score:4, Funny)
Automatic recognition, on a wide scale / network, of young females, in Japan? Oh my...
Re:This can't end well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Automatic recognition, on a wide scale / network, of young females, in Japan?
Uh, no. It's not automatic recognition on an individual level beyond age and gender. It won't say "Hey! Yoshiko! You there! Buy some Pocari Sweat!" It might say "Hey! Big group of mostly 20 something guys heading to the business district! How about some Evangelion-themed pachinko after work!"
It's not going to be a wide scale network, at least I see nothing suggesting it's going to be networked. Which, getting back to the previous point, would be pointless anyway. "Hey! You might be one of the 10 million 15 year old males we saw in Osaka last week! Drink Coke Zero!"
The "looking at the billboard" is a clue. I think it's just going to try to measure which demographics are looking at which ads, so they can target them better. "This particular location near the line to Akihibara 'electric town' saw a whole lot of 20 to 30 year old males, so that's where the ad for the next Dragon Quest would be most effective. Meanwhile, the exit from the Keio line had mostly elderly people, so lets not pay as much for those locations."
Re:This can't end well... (Score:4, Informative)
They could also do timed advertising as well. Some supermarkets play different kinds of musics depending on the day of the week and the hour.
Additional Features (Score:3, Funny)
- Diet Services for those who appear overweight
- Viagra ads for those who appear to have undersized genitals
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- Selective b0m8 detonation
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Finally (Score:2, Funny)
Now that's just not right... (Score:2)
Code excerpt:
Person.setAge(getAgeEstimate()); // Giggity giggity
Person.setSex(getGender());
if (Person.age 18 && Person.sex == "F")
Person.setAge(18);
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D'oh. HTML swallowed my <
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Giggity.
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Get age, get sex
if age is 18 and sex is F then set age to 18... ? (It's already 18).
Or were you just going for the giggity?
OK, too far. (Score:3, Insightful)
At what point do we turn to the marketing overlords and say "Fuck you, you don't have a right to know my age or gender, as much as you think you might". Advertising has gone too far already with being microtargeted, someone has to draw the line.
YOU DON'T HAVE AN INALIENABLE RIGHT TO MARKET TO ME. Make money by doing something useful, not leeching off those who do.
Re:OK, too far. (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, yeah, it's kind of annoying to get to a web page and there's advertising on it, but the ideal advertising is when you only tell people who are interested in a product about the product. That way you don't have to worry about people who aren't interested, or people who might become homicidal because of it, like you. This just goes one step closer to only giving people advertisement for things they might be interested in.
Really, don't kill anyone over this.
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Yes, actually, it would. It's none of their business, leave me alone.
If I'm interested in a product, I don't need to be told about it. If I want to find it, I'll find it, I don't need it thrown in my face constantly like a monkey hitting a typewriter.
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Yes, actually, it would. It's none of their business, leave me alone.
You worry about the wrong things, babe. Go put your effort towards something more productive.
Re:OK, too far. (Score:5, Insightful)
If I'm interested in a product, I don't need to be told about it. If I want to find it, I'll find it
My head just exploded.
In general terms, the point of most advertising is to either introduce an unknown or new product to the public or to inform the public of benefits of using said product. As such, if you don't know about a product, how would you know you don't need to be told about it? Which means, you know you don't know so you don't need to know, therefore not knowing means you know enough about it to not need to know. WTF?!
*Boom* There it went again.
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When I find myself in need of a product or service, I am perfectly capable of seeking out said product or service. If you need to tell me about it to convince me that I need it.. I don't need it.
I don't need to be told about it if I don't need
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When I find myself in need of a product or service
That's the point. Many times, without advertising, you wouldn't know of a product of service and therefore wouldn't know you could seek said product or service.
*BLAM* There, it happened again!
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I'm perfectly capable of typing, for example, "Blue Jeans" into a search engine and reading the result.
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Somehow this simply subject seems to go completely over your head.
How about, "black jeans". If you never knew they existed and no one ever told you they existed, its likely it would never occur to you to even search for, "black jeans". Obviously jeans in an all around bad example, but the point is, you insist you know you don't know and therefore since you don't know you know. The fact remains, its impossible to know everything you don't know; especially when you don't know what you don't know.
We all agree
Re:OK, too far. (Score:4, Insightful)
Coca Cola? McDonald's?
It isn't like these aren't already known world wide. Sure, I guess new generations come out...but surely you don't need to advertise them THAT often, that is, if the main reason like you argue, is to inform people of products they might not know about?
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I'm perfectly capable of typing, for example, "Blue Jeans" into a search engine and reading the result.
That's a rather excellent example.
Why 'Blue'? Denim isn't naturally that color, is it?
Why 'Jeans'? Do you typically purchase products from Gênes (France)?
The entire reason you're aware that 'blue jeans' are something you'd want is due to the marketing efforts folks like Levi Strauss and Co.
Now if you had said 'dungarees' or 'denim trousers', maybe I would have believed you. But this product has already been marketed, and thus is a bad example for your no-marketing world.
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The purpose of advertising isn't to inform you of the existence
You entirely missed a very important series of words, "...in general terms...". Good advertising does both. Classic examples are all those medication commercials where they not only tell you of medication you very likely didn't know existed, they tell you its medication for problems you likely didn't even know was a problem. Then they convince you, of all possible treatments for your problem, their medication is the one you want - so go tell your doctor.
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You're not alone. They just don't get it. I think I could explain it a little bit better, but I completely understand your frustration and your rage is not unjustified, or unexplained.
I may not be willing to kill, but I am perfectly willing to destroy the infrastructure doing this. Perfectly Willing To Do So.
Advertising is an unacceptable offense against our intellect and common decency. There is nothing honest, sincere, or productive about it and as a species we will be better off without it.
Taking it t
Re:OK, too far. (Score:4, Informative)
In general terms, the point of most advertising is to either introduce an unknown or new product to the public or to inform the public of benefits of using said product.
Maybe if it was 1880. The idea that "giving consumers information about a product makes them buy more of it" is easily the least effective and most simplistic type of marketing. This is sometimes combined with more advanced forms, but is often left out.
Modern marketing theory has its roots in the 1920s and Edward Bernays. At its core it is about associating a product with a person's desires at a subconscious level. It has long since gone much deeper and more manipulatively past this. Look up "Century of the Self" if you want a good account of what really went into forming modern marketing strategy.
Look at recent Corona ads or Dos Equis ads for examples of where this has gone these days. The ads have almost nothing to do with the beer they are trying to sell, and no information at all about the product. Yet it is still very effective advertising.
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Duh.
Assuming you are somewhat competent, sure.
But what about a product you would be interested in, should you know about it? Something that you would seek out, if you knew it existed? How do you find out about it? Word of mouth? But then you're just moving the burden of being advertised to onto your friends.
I've seen people, for instance, advertising their hobby groups. It never would have occurred to
Re:OK, too far. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it's good to worry about privacy issues, and slippery slopes and all that, but this isn't a slippery slope. We can draw a line between things that need a warrant (or permission) and things that don't. "Think of the privacy issues" is like the nerd equivalent of "think of the children," you can use it to manipulate geeks to oppose things, but I don't see this one as crossing the line.
In any case raging about it does nothing except make you look silly, and probably reduces your chances of actually doing something practical about it.
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Re:OK, too far. (Score:5, Insightful)
Easy, because a human can't automatically upload an image of your face to a database, correlate your movements with all of your credit card purchases, make inferences about your long-term buying patterns, and then sell that information to someone else who has no business with it in the first place.
The technology allows for far greater scale of privacy invasion, and provided an opportunity for data about you to persist in ways you couldn't even conceive of.
Think of it as Big Brother, but operated by commercial interests.
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I don't know. At what point do you?
Every person is going to see this question differently. If you really have that much of a problem with who is marketing something to you just write to them and say "I love your product but your advertising method gives me the chills. I won't be buying from you again until you amend your ways." Then: STICK TO IT! Boycotts don't work unless companies lose profits because of it.
If enough people agree and follow your le
Re:OK, too far. (Score:5, Insightful)
>>>YOU DON'T HAVE AN INALIENABLE RIGHT TO MARKET TO ME
Yes actually I do. It's my mouth and if I want to stand on a street corner and market my "the world is ending" speech all day long, I can. If you don't like it, move to a different part of the public street or only frequent private areas (like malls) where I can not enter.
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Not only that but I can identify your approximate age and your gender. Then I can approximate income level by your clothing and accessories and begin to tailor my "the world is ending" speech to have more effect on my audience.
And do it from 5000 different sites 24/7 and collect the data to determine if certain groups congregate at certain locations at specific points in the day! And try similar messages at nearby locations to see which has the most positive response and then sell that information to maximize profit!
Oh, wait, you can't do that.
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Your analogy is flawed. If you ride the Tokyo rail system, essentially you are a captive audience for this kind of surveillance. And if some lunatic is ranting about the end of the world on the street in front of my place of business, I can't exactly avoid them either.
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Advertising has gone too far already with being microtargeted, someone has to draw the line.
Try to look at the upside; do you really want to watch ads for feminine hygiene products?
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I don't want to see ANY ads. Period. I don't want to be marketed to. At all. Nobody has a RIGHT to market to me if I don't want it.
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Nobody has a RIGHT to (speak) to me if I don't want it.
I disagree. Vehemently.
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Is this any different than hiring a real person to try to drum up business for an establishment, who can (as a human being) recognize things like race, gender, and age and give different pitches to members of different demographics?
Why is it ok for a human to do it, but not a machine?
Now if it's programed to identify specific individuals and track or reference data on you in order to target you, then I could see you getting upset... then we're moving into Amazon and Google territory!
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It isn't ok. If your product or service isn't good enough to attract customers on its own, then You're Doing It Wrong. Good products sell themselves, they don't need shithead MBAs who can't tie their own shoes to tell the great unwashed what they want.
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It isn't ok. If your product or service isn't good enough to attract customers on its own, then You're Doing It Wrong. Good products sell themselves, they don't need shithead MBAs who can't tie their own shoes to tell the great unwashed what they want.
Or, perhaps...
If your (idea) isn't good enough to attract (followers) on its own, then You're Doing It Wrong.
Communication is an understated thing in your world, it seems. Imagine the difficulty in spreading your anti-marketing idea if you were forbidden to discuss it with anyone. Further imagine opening a new business in a strip mall down town and being forbidden to advertise on the radio, pass out flyers, or even hang a sign out front. How long are you in business?
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Never?
Oh no! A company is trying to let me know about a product it sells!
Oh no! A company is trying to target it's advertising so that I'm not bored with useless ads!
The horror?
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They don't have the right to exploit my privacy to do so. THAT is what I have trouble with here. All I want is to be able to walk down the street (ride the train, etc) without someone trying to sell me something. What the hell has happened to the world where that's not possible anymore?
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All I want is to be able to walk down the street (in private)
Um, no.
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At what point do we turn to the marketing overlords and say "Fuck you, you don't have a right to know my age or gender, as much as you think you might".
A train station is a public location, *everybody* there has a right to look at you and guess your age and gender.
If you don't like that, you can start wearing a burqa everywhere you go. But guess what? It's a right in our (and Japan's) society, and one that is not going to be taken away no matter how paranoid you happen to be.
Advertising has gone too far alr
Wasn't in PKD's Minority Report (Score:5, Informative)
The commercial eye-scanners were all Spielberg.
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I don't see any indication that these cameras can predict future murders.
But if they could, they would be more likely to offer ads for weapons, ropes, shovels and lotion rather than report you to authorities.
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They're referring to the the movie version, which showed the characters constantly walking past 'billboards' that recognized the passersby via retinal scans and pitched customized ads to them by name. They were intentionally annoying, and were used as a plot device to show how difficult it was for the main character to remain anonymous in public places, once he was wanted by the police.
Movie version vs. original story (Score:2)
Remember those sequences in Spielberg's take on 'Minority Report' in which advertisements would actually call out names of passers-by or customers entering shops - how that would work with groups of people (or whether it would just default to a generic pitch) I do not know. The technology around this sort of thing looks pretty attainable by 2052 which was the year that movie was set. Same as a few other things in the film. Infact it seemed quite a prudent take on the future except for all the precognition s
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Remember those sequences in Spielberg's take on 'Minority Report' in which advertisements would actually call out names of passers-by or customers entering shops - how that would work with groups of people (or whether it would just default to a generic pitch) I do not know.
Person with the highest probability to buy the product being advertised. Factor in disposable income, interests, gullability factor, and so on to come up with a number from 0 to 1 for each person. Choose the highest. Of course, playing on group dynamics would also be neat if you can determine that some the members of the group know each other.
"Hello Mr. Yukkamoto (Score:2)
...and welcome back to the GAP!"
I keep wondering why Minority Report type advertising (esp. in-store) isn't here yet despite advancements in face recognition. Plant an innocuous camera at the checkout, and cross-link data from the credit card (your name is on there). Next time you walk in, an animation on a prominently positioned HDTV or projection display greets you by name, and a clerk can sidle up offering help & suggestions based on your buying history.
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Because it would creep too many people out and drive them away from the store.
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...and welcome back to the GAP!"
I keep wondering why Minority Report type advertising (esp. in-store) isn't here yet
Maybe because customers would generally be freaked out, and not come back?
Philip K. Dick (Score:2)
...Just gasped in his grave.
You look like a girl (Score:2)
And this computer agrees with me, so you scientifically look like a girl
Reverse Effect (Score:2)
Y'know, I don't know about the rest of you, but for me the harder they try to get me to buy stupid shit the more I feel that I don't want to buy things advertised in mass media.
I see these billboards as a giant warning sign of what NOT to buy. If I fall into some assumed demographic and I don't already have the product I likely don't need it anyway.
Yeah, yeah you're immune. (Score:2)
They'll just put up some bikini-clad bimbo with a geek-oriented sales pitch ... and you'll buy.
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Fine by me, it's a dead avenue.
Islam countries? (Score:3, Funny)
So this tech will not work against two types of foes:
Muslim women with only their eyes exposed
Those of us who will see these billboards everywhere in 30 years and start dressing lie ninjas in public.
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Need Ninja supplies? Why not stop off at Goemon's One Stop Ninja Shop for all your Ninja needs! ...
Hey ladies, tired of targeted advertising? C'mon down to The Burqa Boutique, we've got the latest fashions just time in summer, all in the new classic; black! ...
A new life awaits you in the Off-World colonies!
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Time to mass-produce these, I guess (Score:2)
FU masks [blogspot.com].
QUIT WRITING DYSTOPIC SCIENCE FICTION... (Score:5, Funny)
... you're giving them ideas!
Re:QUIT WRITING DYSTOPIC SCIENCE FICTION... (Score:5, Insightful)
... you're giving them ideas!
The whole point of *good* science fiction is to issue a warning to the world about what will happen to us all if we don't act now to stop whatever issue the writer is writing about. Scifi that presents a good future is escapism. Scifi that extrapolates our current trends and demonstrates the catastrophe that will ensue, is great literature, and from the standpoint of its potential worth to our culture, it's probably the greatest literature we have.
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Whoosh.
Imagine a dystopic future where the cruel masterminds that rule our society steal ideas from science fiction writers to aid them in their domination of mankind.
Cable companies ... (Score:2, Funny)
Hi Bob,
As a 47-year-old married guy with two teen-agers who is having trouble paying his bills, we don't want to make you feel worse by showing you ads for products you can't afford, like new cars. We show those ads to Dave, next door. What you need is ... Pepto-Bismol, and maybe some antidepressants, right?
Oh, hell. Maybe they are doing that and I haven't caught on yet.
Will they screen the ads first? (Score:4, Funny)
As a 47-year-old married guy with two teen-agers who is having trouble paying his bills, we don't want to make you feel worse by showing you ads for products you can't afford, like new cars. We show those ads to Dave, next door. What you need is ... Pepto-Bismol, and maybe some antidepressants, right?
"Money problems? Did you know there are places in this world that will buy your children? Press "9" on your television remote for further details."
Happy fun time signs! (Score:3, Funny)
"Hello [scanning] sir."
"Now that you are [scanning] in the prime of middle age, couldn't you see yourself in a brand new Generic Sport Sedan From GeneriCo?"
"Yes, sir, approach this kiosk, and I will display the many features of the Boring Oval Shaped Sedan 300Q"
"It is not necessary for you to hold a [scanning] metal pipe to view this ad."
"Neither is it necessary for you to [bzzzt] strike this kiosk with the [blargle] metal pipe."
"Please [buzz] stop [skree] hitting [roar] me, [bzzzzrrrzzzzzzzzzz] sir"
"[zzzzz] maintenance required [skttttttktktktk] please [bzzzzz] Daisy daisy [zzzzzz] rosebud"
"sssssssssss boop!"
(blessed silence)
Thankfully, the Japanese have given us a solution (Score:2)
Thankfully, the Japanese have given us a solution - namely, 1 watt blue laser diodes.
And Wicked Lasers has made them portable.
Burn out all cameras
For Great Justice!
The technology is already in use in the US (Score:4, Informative)
And this is different from signs with the same capability that have been in US Malls for a good while only in that they're actually actively acting on the info, whereas the US marketers, AFAIK, only so far use it to analyze who is viewing their ads and for how long. Next time you're out and about the mall, look for the small camera on top of the ad. They're out there/
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Reference link from two years ago: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/10/digital-billboa.html [latimes.com]
Burkhas forever!!! (Score:2)
gender??? lol (Score:2)
Every time I hear about this my interest is piqued. I've been taking estrogen for almost a decade now, but that was after my skeletal structure was permanently changed by testosterone before I found a doctor who was willing to treat my androgen problem (instead of assuming that more testosterone = GOOD yay testosterone. maybe for some, but not for me.)
Basically, I have a mix of male and female features. On some days guys hit on me because they think I'm cute and like my hair, and on other days females
Re:I have been to Japan... (Score:5, Funny)
...I doubt they get much accuracy in age, and probably a large number of "indeterminate" or false positives on gender...
If some electronic add calls me a chick, I'm punching its lights out!
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If some electronic add calls me a chick...
you'll do an electronic subtract?
Must be that time of the month (Score:2)
Time to market some anti-PMS drugs to this chick.
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Its a good point - mis-identifying a customer is so insulting that I would be surprised if it is a net win for marketers.
Negative feelings about brands can to tremendous long term damage. There are a number of companies that I won't buy from if there is any alternative, simply because they have pissed me off in the past.
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18+, but looks 13, big eyes, short skirt!
Wow, sounds like Craigslist's adult section.
But of course she's really a 38-YO, crack whore with a C-section scar and a tattoo of some man's name on her ass.