Venezuela Bans Hostile Videogames and Toys 335
An anonymous reader writes "In an effort to 'help improve child education and prevent misconduct,' the Venezuelan government began enforcing a law on March 3rd banning war videogames and toys, imposing a fine and 2.5 years in prison on the production, distribution, sale, hiring and use of video games and toys inciting violent behavior. Alberto Federico Ravell, former director of opposing news network Globovision, has already come on twitter denouncing the authorities for seizing imported Gameboy, Wii and PlayStation 3 consoles, due to considering them violent."
Story at 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Story at 11 (Score:4, Interesting)
Chavez does seem to have an ambition to turn "his" country into the new North Korea.
The sad thing is that the locals seem to be applauding him. Seriously, there will be comments on this thread saying "OMG THE US/UK IS JUST AS BAD".
No, they're not.
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Why not?
I am not aware of Venezuela under Chavez starting wars on the other side of the planet.
The economic and quality of life graphs on Venezuela's Wikipedia page generally show sharp increases around Chavez' rise to power. The biggest harm he's done is to foreign business interests who were stepping on his electorate.
Re:Story at 11 (Score:5, Interesting)
I have family in Venezuela, been going there for years. Here's an interesting story that was suppressed. The second time Chavez got re-elected by a super majority, 98.6% of the working population didn't show up to work the next day in protest. in contrast, he has done a lot for the poor in the haciendas on the mountain sides, but they don't have jobs and don't pay taxes. They don't contribute in major ways to the economy. I have no problem with job programs for such a populous, except that in Venezuela they don't get paid, they get tickets for socialized food programs. Still better than it was, but the working populous isn't making any of that money to invest in new business. All the job programs are run by companies Chavez owns. All the contracts those companies "win" are also owned by Chavez. You can't make any money without having to bribe officials. It's not just foreign interests he suppresses, he does it more internally. course he owns the media outlets and fines cable operators for not airing his marathon speeches. So I have no links. Take it as it is.
Anon because my family is high profile.
Re:Story at 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
So then don't move to Venezuela?
If you actually had a rough life you would not say that. If you have not eaten in a week violence in video games and the freedom to play them is way down on the list of shit you care about.
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Soviet peasants agree: life never better!
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Because you don't have the weapons, money, and worldwide military dominance of an Empire?
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Look, I agree that this is a crackpot law, and I have serious doubts about the viability of Venezuela's economy under Chavez. And, yes, he's a blowhard, a showboater, and a bit of a demogogue.
But Venezuela is nowhere near becoming the next NK, and is still very much a democracy. When a country with a lot of wealth has 70% of its population living in poverty, a redistributionist left-wing regime is going to be the inevitable result in a democracy, and for a (close) majority of Venezuelans, Chavez really has
Re:Story at 11 (Score:5, Informative)
He's actually a tinpot democratically elected president.
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Not really (Score:5, Insightful)
He was elected to being with, and that election seems to have been fair. However since then he has been taking increasingly underhanded methods of retaining power, stifling dissent and so on.
Do remember that a large number of dictators are elected to power initially. They then just misuse the power and suppress freedom. That someone was elected initially doesn't mean they aren't a dictator now.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Funny)
He was elected to being with, and that election seems to have been fair. However since then he has been taking increasingly underhanded methods of retaining power, stifling dissent and so on.
Do remember that a large number of dictators are elected to power initially. They then just misuse the power and suppress freedom. That someone was elected initially doesn't mean they aren't a dictator now.
I seem to recall a certain German dictator who I recall was originally elected, but I won't mention his name since I don't want to cause a Fuhrer.
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And folks dealt with him we he started invading our friends. He might be a nutter but Chavez has not invaded anyone yet.
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And folks dealt with him we he started invading our friends. He might be a nutter but Chavez has not invaded anyone yet.
Wrong: [csmonitor.com]
Venezuela plotted to kill Colombia president, Spain judge says
A Spanish judge on Monday charged that Venezuela plotted to kill Colombia President Álvaro Uribe, collaborating with rebel groups ETA and FARC to kill other political officials as well.
...
Information used in the indictment came from the laptop computer of a top FARC guerrilla commander killed by Colombian forces in 2008. In the months that followed, the computer files revealed what international intelligence officials say are close ties between the FARC and top members of Mr. Chávez's government.
So, not only has Chavez invaded other countries (a proxy invasion is still an invasion), Chavez has tried to assassinate the democratically-elected leader of another country.
And that's what we know of.
So you can stop lying for your favorite thug.
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I think the guy is a dirtbag, but this if this is the worst you can come up with he might not be that bad. The USA pulls this crap all the time.
ORLY? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, in your crazy little head, assassinating someone - which the CIA and our proxy Mossad do regularly - is the activity of a thuggish dictatorship...
I guess when Chavez plots an assassination of a government we subsidize, that's a crime. However, when we carry out plotted assassinations against our enemies, it's justice. Yes, it makes perfect sense to me now!
Hypocrisy? What's that, a new Morrissey cover band?
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Sure, but other than to bring up godwin why bother bring that up?
Re:Not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering we regularly used to oust elected leaders and that is how we ended up the the Iran of today, maybe we ought sit back and see how this plays out.
Not saying we should oust him (Score:2)
However I AM saying that he's a dictator.
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A popular one though, I would rather not see another Iran.
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That is how most dictators start out. Then they push for "reforms" that allow them to remain in office indefinitely and rig the elections. And that is exactly what he has done.
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Really? Because quite a few just get the USA to put them in power. The Shah is a nice example of that, and the end result was the modern state of Iran. So how about we not stick our noses where it does not belong?
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I think when we participated in the coup against him a while ago.
Because the USA has a bad habit of doing that. We need to learn to deal with our own problems first.
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You're doing it wrong (Score:2, Insightful)
Palestinians electing Hamas? That's not democracy. Venezuelans electing Chavez? That's not democracy. Bolivians electing Morales? That's not democracy. Spain leaving Iraq because 95% oppose the war? That's not democracy.
Pinochet taking over Chile? Triumph of democracy! America invading Iraq? Triumph of democracy! The CIA and the Shah taking over Iran? Triumph of democracy! Turkey supporting the Iraq war against the will of it's populace? Triumph of democracy!
All you have to do is replace "democracy" with "A
Re:Story at 11 (Score:4, Informative)
He didn't just change it on his own. He gets re-elected with the support of his countrymen and gets to amend the constitution only with the complicity of the legislature.
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So he used a legal process to alter the government? Oh Noes! To me this looks like it might end up being another Salvador Allende.
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More than I trust an AC.
Outrageous! (Score:2)
How DARE you talk about Ms. Pelosi that way! She's the duly elected... Oh, wait, nevermind.
Is This Really A Bad Thing? (Score:4, Funny)
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Prohibiting things that are not proven dangerous is plain stupid. Why would you want kids in venezuela to go out, if its one of the countries with the most terrible urban security problems in all of latin america?
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Yeah, but what about me? I am an adult and I want to play video games.
Will they ban violent and pornographic graphic novels? What about movies and TV shows? What about books and songs?
It always infuriates me whan video game is treated like a lesser medium, like it is something for kids. Even if it was, those same kids can find examples of bad conduct in any other medium.
On a second thought, I think I might have failed to notice the sarcasm of parent post, but my opinion stays the same.
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If they have no video games they'll go outside and play ... and then
the can be mugged, robbed, kidnapped or killed, or any combination, and "voila". [bbc.co.uk]
"Education and prevention of misconduct" (Score:2)
Slippery slope... (Score:2)
Alberto Federico Ravell an Asshole Liar (Score:4, Interesting)
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Make an. account so folks see this. Hugo Chavez is no saint, but the folks who run the media attacks on him are no Mother Teresas either.
Re:Alberto Federico Ravell an Asshole Liar (Score:5, Insightful)
Words have meaning. The meaning of terrorist is not "someone I don't like", despite US policy to the contrary.
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Can someone who creates and exploits fear be called a terrorist? Someone whose primary tool is terror. I would think that would be the core definition.
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As Wikipedia likes to say (Score:3, Informative)
[Citation Needed]
You'll have to forgive me if I don't believe some AC who likes to call journalists "terrorists." I find it equally probable that you are simply a supporter of Chavez who is making shit up.
So, cite or GTFO.
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Im Venezuelan, linving in Venezuela. And the seizing of gaming consoles is a lie.
You're a Venezuelan living in Venezuela, and the only thing you have to say is that the government is not seizing consoles? How about some outrage at the absurdity of this law? How about some disgust at the fact that your government is passing laws that shift parental responsibility to the state?
This is a silly ploy to make it look like the government is tackling crime. In actual fact, they are just trying to get political points at the expense of their citizens' freedoms and on the back of their citizens' [reuters.com]
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He's not responding like an American because he isn't American.
People from different cultures have different priorities.
Re:Alberto Federico Ravell an Asshole Liar (Score:4, Insightful)
If such a tepid response to an obvious overstep by the government is a cultural difference, it certainly isn't a good one.
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People from different cultures have different priorities.
But trolling is universal.
Kids will be kids (Score:4, Insightful)
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Obviously, shoot the kid with a real gun.
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How in the hell did this get modded informative? It might be funny to read this, and it is certainly even funnier when it's tagged "informative", but really, this is a mod system failure.
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Hmm? Why funny? It's actually true. You think a cop who see's a kid doing something like that isn't going to shoot the kid?
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Or a sword, or a bow and arrow, or a club, or a mace...
Guns aren't the first weapons that ever existed, and kids playing with fake swords is FAR older and way precedes video games.
As a person interested in science (Score:2)
I'd like to see what happens. I do not support this ban, but I look forward to reading about its effect on the behavior and crimes of children and young adults (assuming that a few years from now, someone manages to get good data about the behavior of children).
The results of censorship (Score:2)
ISPs (Score:2)
Internet is the ultimate test to tell when some law is just stupid, and you don't need to be a "benevolent dictator" to have in your portfolio a lot of that kind of laws.
Caracas didnt want any competition (Score:2)
The capitol of Venezuela also happens to have the highest per capita murder rate in the world. They just seem to be following the rest of the world...if you cant blame someone blame video games and anyone who doesnt want to be one of those statistics knows not to blame Chavez's regime.
I'm bias-sensitive (Score:2)
When it comes to news about Venezuela, I'm bias-sensitive. There's a political divide there that is ten times as vicious as it is here. With that in mind, I'm confused about this bit of the summary, "former director of opposing news network Globovision." How does that fit in context?
Also, I understand that Venezuela has the highest murder rate of any country in the world. That seems like some necessary context for a law that punishes things that appear to encourage violent behavior.
Look at the bright side! (Score:2)
A country without hockey!
I'm All For it! (Score:2)
Which is why I'll shortly be pitching my new product line, "Fondle Me Elmo"
Not a big deal... (Score:5, Informative)
The way things are developing right now in Venezuela, in a couple months we'll have no electricity to power our violent video games anyway.
It's another violation of our rights, but it'll have to take the back seat while we deal with the hijacked supreme court, the lack of separation of powers, 12000+ violent deaths a year, the constants attacks on freedom on speech and the money unlawfully gifted by Chavez to foreign countries while lobbying for its revolution and the 21'st century socialism, and estimated over 50 billion dollars.
This could be called my two cents, but being in Venezuela I can't exchange local to foreign currency freely, another right violation that's 6 years old and counting.
Referendum to revoke this (Score:4, Informative)
There is no seizing of consoles, that is a lie. However, this stupid law is true. In short, any sale, rent, distribution or even promotion of video games with any sort of "violence" in it, can get you 3 to 5 years in jail.
It is explained in the law proposal that this is meant to protect the children from violence, but there is no exception for adults. Yes, for ages 18+ porn is legal, prostitution is legal, bearing firearms (with permit) is legal, but video games? no sir.
Most game software companies will be unable to sell their products, the most affected are of course console games.
I oppose this law and the constitution (art. 74) allows a referendum [embavenez-us.org] to revoke it. The question is, will enough people get together to start this?
Here is the law in the official print [asambleanacional.gob.ve] (in spanish).
Key excerpts from this law (forgive my translation):
Article 3.1
War videogame: Those videogames or programs usable in personal computers, arcade systems, video(game)consoles, portable devices or mobile phones and any other electronic or telematic device, which contain information or symbolism images promoting or inciting violence or use of weapons.
Article 14
Any who import, manufacture, sell, rent or distribute war videogames or war toys, shall be penalized with prison from 3 to 5 years.
Hostile Videogames and Toys? (Score:3, Insightful)
When a headline writer can employ the incoherent phrase "hostile videogames and toys" with a straight face, the battle is already lost.
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is a dictatorship with deep financial troubles. The reasons they give for seizing valuable equipment don't bear deep inspection.
World in Flames (Score:3, Informative)
This is a dictatorship with deep financial troubles. The reasons they give for seizing valuable equipment don't bear deep inspection.
Venezuela wrote forgave Haiti $295 million in oil-related debt. South America leaders hold Haiti aid summit [bbc.co.uk]
It's unlikely that Chavez has forgotten or forgiven Mercenaries 2. Video game simulating invasion of Venezuela raises ire of Chavez allies [usatoday.com]
There have been other irritants in the Tom Clancy lie: Venezuela [giantbomb.com] [As a Video Game Setting]
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Insightful)
As a gamer talking to a parent I ask you: WHy in hell do you want ME to suffer for YOU to educate YOUR CHILD in whichever way YOU decide?
Do I violent gamer have a say in how you educate your children? Then why do you advocate in favor of people telling ME how to educate MINE?
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Not only that, but confiscating video game consoles is sure, without doubt, 100% going to make those people more calm ! ... well, not very happy!
Not sure about everyone else, but if you want me to not turn into a dangerous driver, taking my car is not how you do that, and if you do, I'm going to be
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>Okay, conspiracy theorists. If we are in the "Brave New World", where the fuck is my free drugs and obligatory orgies?
Haven't you seen the education and the fashion being promoted this days. Anyone advocating against drugs and orgies, is ridiculed. We may not be in "Brave New World" already, but we cannot be far.
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As a gamer you should be educated enough to know which games are appropriate for a child, and as a parent you should be aware of what he/she is up to and police them yourself. As a parent I understand children are willful and disobedient at times, but once he's old enough to sneak one by me, he's probably old enough to handle some nudity and violence without turning into a serial killer.
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Good for you, but how about you let people make their own decisions?
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I find it entertaining, and given the amount of money people spend on violence containing entertainment, I'm in good company. But I'm not going to let a young child around it.
Nudity and sex may not bother you, but I'd rather my child not be exposed to the usual treatment of the subject you'll get in video games. It is every bit as crass as their treatment of violence, which is also another basic element of nature.
Either way, these distinctions are up to us individually to use on our children. It should not
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Tag's pretty violent when you get down to what the goal is, you're basically hitting your friends while running around. Should we ban that? All competition is violent, and some of us enjoy competing.From a certain perspective even Pong is violent (Slam that ball into your opponents goal! Yeah! Right past that loser!) so have fun without any games (not even number cruncher passes a strict definition of violence).
Perhaps you're referring to blood and gore which is an entirely separate thing from violence?
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I don't think censoring as a society is the answer. But censoring as a parent for age/development appropriate levels to create a nurturing environment for kids makes a lot of sense IHMO (up to some point).
Resources about non-violent cooperative games:
http://www.familypastimes.com/ [familypastimes.com]
http://www.amazon.com/Playfair-Everybodys-Guide-Noncompetitive-Play/dp/091516650X [amazon.com]
http://www.amazon.com/No-Contest-Case-Against-Competition/dp/0395631254 [amazon.com]
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Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:4, Funny)
Stomping on people and throwing fireballs is pretty violent, but I dont think Mario made me a bad person.
Yeah, but look at what it did to him [youtube.com] .
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As a parent, I lament losing the opportunity to be able to teach my child right from wrong and instead having state opinions foisted upon children.
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Insightful)
You are the embodiment of everything that is wrong with actions and laws such as these. It is not the governments place to parent your children yet you cheer them on every time they do.
You think of your children, no one else should have to.
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As a parent you applaud them giving out time in prison for the "production, distribution, sale, hiring and use" of violent video games for everyone, in the name of 'protecting the children', even when there's no evidence of it harming anyone? The whole thing is ridiculous on multiple levels. You shouldn't be applauding factually baseless think-of-the-children moral panic laws imposing harsh punishments and broad restrictions of the rights of others even as a parent.
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:4, Insightful)
However, seizing the consoles seems overboard.
Seizing anything is overboard. You might applaud the effort, but what do your kids learn? That responsibility is someone else's problem and that you have the right to control what others do? Those are the attributes of a reckless bully, exactly how we teach kids not to think. Parents should be against this for that (and the whole freedom of speech trampling of a universal human right thing).
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Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Insightful)
killing other humans is just as if not more natural than sex.
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Not so much "replaced" as "supplemented". For a very long time, killing people was quite a popular punishment for various crimes, and still is in much of the world, though the more civilized parts have largely abandoned it. And even in those countries, people still sometimes solve their problems (in a less than legal manner) through killing. Not to mention motives like greed. There are many more reasons for killing than 'lol crazy people' or 'evil government evilly forcing people to do it, through evil'.
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I'm sure Native Americans, tribal Africans, the Celts, the Vikings and all other tribal peoples without anything close to formal government or religious establishments never resorted to war, rape and pillage out of territorial instincts/motives or material desires. I'm just sure of it.
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"People killing other people is not natural."
Look up instraspecific competition sometime. Biology disagrees with you. People not killing others for their stuff is far LESS natural than the alternative, without civilizations killing goes up (after all if I want joes stuff and nothing bad'll happen to me if I just go and take it what's there to stop me?)
I usually don't bother with tabula rasa people but really now? You're going to make an argument that's contradicted by ALL of human history and everything we
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Informative)
Chimp tribes have been observed to go to war with other chimp tribes, and brutally kill them. As repulsive as you may find it, war is a natural activity for humans.
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Sex is natural, killing other humans is not.
Whaaaa? Killing is very natural and we have been doing it since day zero. It's taken a long long time to bring that natural act under control, and it still slips out now and then.
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How so? It is *your job* as a parent to raise your kids and it is not the government's job to harass the rest of us.
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:5, Insightful)
As a parent, let alone a human being, you should really FIND OUT about who Hugo is and what he has done to the people of his country.
I work with person from Venezuela, his family is here (U.S.) from Venezuela and they are all, everyone, completely opposed to mad-man, his usurping of power, his decimating the what freedoms the people of his country had, etc.
Hugo and the antics of his government deserve the ridicule and condemnation of all free people. This gaming thing is just a small small piece of the overwhelming oppression he has rained down on his people.
Re:Great, but don't go overboard (Score:4, Informative)
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Well since all the wealthy right wingers started funding violent opposition - complete with actual military coup attempts, egged on relentlessly by the media companies they own ... it is hardly surprising.
Their remedy for "calm" is a traditional South American military crackdown on all uppity poor, complete with mass disappearances and executions in soccer stadiums - Chile style. Would this "reduce" violence? Of course - until it spa
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watch your fucking kids
if your kids are fucking you have bigger problems
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Yeah. Grandchildren!
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Better that they fuck than fight.
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Nice Troll, but if you want responses you should create an account. Also you might want to add some stuff about how these games are clearly for children.
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I know for a FACT that violence has always been the heart and soul of video games! Did you know that the first video game, Pong, was based on two bullies pushing a nerd back and forth between them, with the "loser" being the one who didn't get in the last push before the nerd ran away?
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At least in video games it's virtual violence.
Perhaps it's due to a guilty conscience that they are putting this in place. Any other explanation would simply make my head implode due to the density of hippocrasy.
Funny though how all thought stops when you "think of the children!" (tm)
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hypocrisy
Perhaps so, but reasons and what-ifs aside, I wonder how they plan to block the vast amount of browser games that are certainly violent? How do you stop the internets?
Do they really think it's possible to put a block on every violent game link? What about phone games? I seem to recall that Quake 1 just got ported to Andriod or iPhone?
Interesting stance for a government to take, but really, honestly, truly. Goodluckwiththat.
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As much as I hate censorship, I do agree with this sentiment. Has anyone actually sat down and watched a kids' show? Ben10 has something like 10 violent acts every 3 minutes.
Being anti-censorship does not mean "anything goes". I am the primary carer (uncle for my adopted nephew) for a 4 year old, and I can tell you there is a marked increase in hyperactive behavior, aggression and general lack of control for hours after watching Nickelodeon. Consequently, I have banned TV in my house. It was a few days of t
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Looking at it from an evolutionary perspective, the human race grew up doing some nasty things, and individuals evolved to take in those experiences, survive, a
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Violence in media is not the issue, its the acceptance of violence as a resolution in society that it.
I know a guy growing up, extreme fundamentalist family who filtered everything he watched, as 12 yr olds when we started watching Aliens and Terminator he was barely permitted to watch Blinky Bill. He was shipped off to a religious school as soon as was permissible and the last I heard, he'd spend his life since 18 in and out of rehab. His