Scientology Charged With Slavery, Human Trafficking 802
eldavojohn writes "A formal complaint was filed in California (caged PDF) last week by John Lindstein naming David Miscavige and the Church of Scientology International as defendants. Lindstein claims that for sixteen years (from age 8) he was forced to work as a slave at Gold Base, a secret CoS site run by Golden Era Productions with 'razor wire, security guard patrols, surveillance posts, and three roll calls each day.' The pay was $50 a week. The allegations include 'Violations of wage and hour laws as well as unfair/illegal business practices actionable under California B&P 17200 Et. Seq.' and a complaint under the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution, which abolished slavery. Members of the group Anonymous praised the summons."
really? (Score:3, Interesting)
Was this a surprise to anyone?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I hate those motherfuckers and I live right in their neighborhood but seriously, it was a surprise to me.
Yes... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not fan of scientology, or any cult really - but a mainstream organization with illegal work camps? I just never expected that, at all. You'd think the lid would have come off something that extreme some time ago. And what are they even having them do in these camps, build the theta monitors?
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Funny)
You could question the order of these two events.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Cult: n, A small, unpopular religion.
Religion: n, A large, popular cult.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
And confusing "Charged with" with "Found guilty of".
I think you're confusing "not found guilty" and "not charged" with "innocent"
Either all these former Scientologists are in some kind of multi-decade conspiracy to slander CoS
OR the CoS really has been doing horrible things since its founding.
Which is the more plausible proposition?
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude - there are (and were) cults out in the US today that do much, much worse. Past examples? Branch Davidians (Waco), the SunYungMoon group during the 1980's ("Moonies"), and the recent polygamy compound in Colorado City, Arizona. They all stand out as some rather egregious examples, and I don't doubt there are more of 'em out there today.
They don't have barbed wire and guards per se, but I'm willing to wager that their denizens are brainwashed enough that none of the fencing and such is necessary.
Those are not mainstream (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude - there are (and were) cults out in the US today that do much, much worse.
Yes there are, but nothing on the scale of Scientology. The bigger the group the bigger the target, the harder to keep secrets.
That's what I mean by being surprised. A local compound in one city? Zero information coming out of that would surprise me. But again, for something as large and well known as scientology... it is odd to me that this has not come forward before and is being practiced at all. They don't need to do this after all, they are making money hand over fist as it is.
Re:Those are not mainstream (Score:5, Interesting)
People have known about the forced servitude of scientology for a long time. Its just that this is perhaps the first time anyone has had the combination of resources and bravery to stand up against it. And this is an example of bravery, some people that speak out against scientology have found themselves mysteriously dead.
Re:German Documentary on Gold Base (Score:5, Informative)
Its not like no-one knew about Scientology work camps - some german documentary team went out to go visit it and got stopped by a bunch of armed men (this was in the early 90's) - wish I could remember the title.
Missing in Happy Valley
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2742505831051424517 [google.com]
Re:Those are not mainstream (Score:4, Interesting)
Wow, you just exude Tom Cruise level craziness.
Re:Those are not mainstream (Score:4, Informative)
Look, it took almost a hundred years for the courts in Ireland to finally investigate the Catholic Church, and specifically the Christian Brothers organization, which just last week admitted to having known for decades about well-documented cases of child molestation, flogging, child slavery and horrible physical abuse at the hands of priests in their midst all through the 20th century (and probably earlier, but those victims are long dead). The church leaders knew about it and covered it up. It took some brave people to sue them and shame them in public to bring this out into the open. Now, the Christian Brothers have agreed to pay over $240,000,000 in damages to the surviving plaintiffs (some of which are now in their seventies and retired) to compensate them for the abuse they suffered as children.
Go to Netflix and rent "The Magdalene Sisters" for an eye-opening expose of what the church has done to children for many, many years. The film is fictitious, but based upon actual accounts of what went on in the Magdalene Asylums, as admitted by a number of nuns who left the order and wrote confessions about them.
The Church of Scientology is an evil organization, but they take inspiration from cults that are much older, and far more skillful at hiding their evil and masquerading themselves as "divinely ordained to save mankind." Too many people in this sick world are as stupid as cattle, and willing to believe any nonsense someone in authority spouts into their ears, especially when they are impressionable children. The fact that they continue to believe this garbage into their adulthood is a scathing indictment of our broken educational system.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite right. GP also referred to the CoS as 'mainstream'. There is nothing mainstream about them. Most other countries don't even recognize them as a religion. They are a money making / power grabbing scheme dreamed up by a second rate megalomaniac science fiction author that has now taken on a life of its own.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
The distinction between a religion and a cult, to my mind, isn't the quality of their beliefs-- we all believe utterly ridiculous things. (Do you actually believe in the *electron*? Or that we're all actually collections of waves? Quantum mechanics is as ridiculous as the virgin birth-- in fact, quantum mechanics ALLOWS for the virgin birth, since everything is possible (if highly improbable) in quantum mechanics). The difference is in the sincerity of the religion/cult's founders and leadership: do *they* believe in what they're saying, and are they primarily motivated by their belief? I personally think that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Baha'i, Buddhism, etc were founded in all sincerity, and even through the contempt I feel for the evangelical Christian movement, and for the Pope (speaking as a Catholic), I think they are acting from a position of sincerity.
Scientology, on the other hand, was founded by a science fiction writer who is on record saying that founding a fake religion would be a great way to make money. Now, I think there are a number of Scientologists who are sincerely so, but I don't trust their leadership, and that makes them a cult to me.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
The big difference is that we have the founder on record, in writing, claiming that:
1. He came up with this stuff under the influence of drugs.
2. That this is not a religion, in any way, shape, or form.
3. Later, that there is now a "religion angle" which exists only for tax and legal reasons, but that there is no change at all of the underlying facts.
They have written documents saying that they are not a religion, are not intended to be a religion, and are purely scientific. That does go a long way towards suggesting that they are perhaps not a religion. Generally, if you put in writing that you are filing forms saying you're a religion only for tax reasons, and not because you actually think you're a religion, that's a big sign.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege [wikipedia.org] :
The deaths that resulted were because the Davidians thought they were defending themselves from an assault. Several parts of the FBI and ATF forces wanted to negotiate more, but another faction wanted to ramp up the use of force. Tanks and CEVs were brought in. At some point, the compound was heavily tear-gassed.
I think it's safe to say that it's a tragedy, no matter how you look at it, but I certainly feel that a large portion of the blame for the deaths at the Waco siege were caused by the unwillingness of the ATF/FBI to negotiate, and their eagerness to push with force against a target that they knew would interpret that as requiring self-defense.
The Davidians' "wrongdoings" were small change compared to what happened there. Koresh was a polygamist, and I certainly don't condone his actions, but I don't think it's fair to blame him and his followers entirely for the deaths during the siege.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Interesting)
According to her telling of events, the altercation started when one of the Dividians neighbors complained about the noise from their target practice. The local sheriff went out and asked them to keep it down. She claims the sheriff had already resolved the issue before the Fed decided they had an excuse to assault the church.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
And what are they even having them do in these camps, build the theta monitors?
From the Infinite Complacency Link:
At 12, he was “deemed finished with schooling” and Golden Era Productions, an unincorporated division of Church of Scientology International (CSI) hired him as a messenger and errand boy.
But in 1997, at the age of 15, he was demoted to the post of dishwasher. “He worked 16-hour days cleaning pots, pans and the dining facilities,” says the lawsuit.
And soon afterwards, he was assigned to do construction at the base near Hemet, California.
So the answer to your question is messenger, dish washer then construction worker. I mean, why use all the money you take from your followers to hire people to do this work when you can force the followers to do it for less or even free? L Ron Hubbard's Get Rich Quick Scam is yet another valid title for Scientology.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, for example church-run (ie, most of them) orphanages in Ireland [wikipedia.org]. All of physical abuse, sexual abuse and forced labor.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, please, define "mainstream". Just because an organization makes the news frequently doesn't make them "mainstream". Take a hard look at the people who claim to be Scientologists. Fringe freaking element, all around. Huh? You point to some celebrity or other? Your point being what, exactly? Whoa, dude, you need to look at those celebrities again. We make celebrities out of people like Roman Polanski, who likes little girls. We make celebrities out of the likes of Michael Jackson, who liked - uhhh - sleepovers with little boys. We make celebrities out of rap singers who "sing" about killing cops. We make celebrities of other "singers" who celebrate gang raping little girls. Just because Tom Cruise happens to be in movies, people like his movies, does NOT make CoS "mainstream".
America worships freaks, but that worship doesn't make them "mainstream".
Re:Yes... (Score:4, Informative)
It did. The debt slavery in $cientology has been documented by its former members for years, including the child labor used to keep their buildings intact. Young $cientologists grow up with quite a large debt to the cult for their "auditing" sessions, during which they also confess any crimes with the e-meter, actually a primitive polygraph test whose results are often faked, and those confessions can be used to blackmail members into remaining in the cult or remaining silent if they ever escape.
Details are over at www.factnet.org and www.xenu.net, it's fascinating material.
Re:Yes... (Score:5, Informative)
"I'm not fan of scientology, or any cult really - but a mainstream organization with illegal work camps? I just never expected that, at all. You'd think the lid would have come off something that extreme some time ago."
It has, if you were paying attention.
CoS's 'Rehabilitation Project Force' labour camps and other extreme 'Ethics' measures have been common knowledge since the 1990s - just check the extensive files on Operation Clambake - http://xenu.net/ [xenu.net] .
However, CoS tends to sue massively and engage in lots of dirty tricks whenever the mainstream media cover them at all negatively, which is why you may not have heard about this stuff if you don't get your news from the Net.
They tried to censor Usenet back in the early 90s. It didn't work so well for them. Anonymous is just the latest round in a long battle of CoS Versus The Internet.
Re:really? (Score:5, Informative)
In the words of Trey Parker and Matt Stone, 'THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE!!'
As quoted from L. Ron Hubbard:
The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".
His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.
When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development.
One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.
In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.
One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.
Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.
Re:really? (Score:5, Informative)
If your question is serious, the serious answer is about $500,000.
That's about how much you have to pay to get to that "level" of information.
I Was Surprised (Score:5, Informative)
Was this a surprise to anyone?
As the submitter, yeah I have to admit it kind of was. This is a really unique opportunity for a case against CoS because normally the cases come from outsiders.
Lindstein was eight years old and says he was forced to work for 16 years. He was removed from school at age 12. Now, if you were removed from school at age 12, you probably aren't very well suited for a high paying job. So you have someone who's lost much of their youth to Scientology and has the motivation to see this suit through to the end.
You see, when you sue or slander Scientology, you might not realize what you're getting yourself into. People end up doing jail for posting verbal attacks on Scientology online. To quote the late L. Ron Hubbard [wikiquote.org] on his policy:
This is the correct procedure: Spot who is attacking us. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way. * "Attacks on Scientology" (25 February 1966)
That's what you're dealing with. That's what Lindstein has in his future. He probably knows it, his lawyer probably knows it. But he will soon be subjected to character assassination, harassment of just barely legal amounts, indirect threats and the same for any family he may have.
So yeah, I'm a pleasantly surprised that such an opportune individual has stepped forward to speak and let us know what Scientology is. Because in so many other cases, the individual has been silenced one way or another. And scientology has refined it's processes to force its members quiet and they have the resources and legal representation to make magic happen in the courts.
I hope Lindstein is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I wish him the best of luck in the courtroom and for justice to be brought against those who forced him into labor and stripped him of his right to knowledge.
Re:I Was Surprised (Score:5, Informative)
You see, when you sue or slander Scientology, you might not realize what you're getting yourself into. People end up doing jail for posting verbal attacks on Scientology online. ...
That's what you're dealing with. That's what Lindstein has in his future. He probably knows it, his lawyer probably knows it. But he will soon be subjected to character assassination, harassment of just barely legal amounts, indirect threats and the same for any family he may have.
I think most people also don't realize just how much worse a situation Lindstein is in. For non-Scientologists, the Church really has to work to try to dig up skeletons in the closet, to figure out just what could possibly embarrass and discredit you. But for ex-Scientologists, it's much worse, because they already know everything about you. You see, confession is part of the religion. That's hardly abnormal, but the difference is that you must confess something new. And you have to confess. So you'll be in a room with a dozen people screaming at you to confess some past sin. Something. And then that information is written down. Over the years they wring everything out of you, and it's all documented. Then when you turn against the church later in life, that information is released. Did you ever have a romantic affair with a fellow staffer? That will come out. Maybe when you were really young you curiously touched the family pet when he was humping your leg? Oh, you bet that will be shown. Everyone has something that they're not proud of that they don't want anyone to know. And the church will have confessionals for all of it. Of course they don't WANT to do this. " Yingling and Davis said the church doesn't relish using documents from ethics files. But after the four defectors spoke out against Miscavige, the lawyer and spokesman said they had no choice." That statement and others can be found from the amazing St. Petersburg Times series on Scientology: http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012148.ece [tampabay.com]. Utterly amazing.
So yeah, Lindstein is in for a rough time.
Re:I Was Surprised (Score:5, Insightful)
They're really that terrible. Sorry.
The very first thing that happens when you're brought into Scientology is that they convince you that all that money you're spending on doctors is wasted, that Scientology will fix everything. Some people with actual life-threatening problems don't survive this phase. Doesn't bother Scientology a bit, though.
Oblig. Fraiser quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Fraiser (to Niles): "Remember Niles, that which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
Nile: "Yes, but what about the people that don't make it into that second group?"
Fighting Cults: Rick Ross (Score:5, Interesting)
I love it! (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if we can see a slashdot article saying that they were found guilty and someone went to prison for it... the fat lady ain't sang yet, boys.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's pretty evil. (Score:3, Funny)
First the Catholics with child rape, now the Scientologists with slavery and human trafficking.
Any wagers on which one true religion will be busted next?
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they purport to deal in moral and divine matters, those who have power within the organization generally(either as an official point of doctrine, or in lay understanding) tend to be imbued with greater "goodness" or "holiness" or access to divine command, or whatever. Priests and CEOs are both potentially dangerous, and quite likely to cover for their buddies; but you don't generally tell children that CEOs are trusted authority figures who deserve their respect and obedience.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Funny)
> but you don't generally tell children that CEOs are trusted authority figures who deserve their respect and obedience.
Well, unless their name is Steve Jobs.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:4, Insightful)
I wish Acts 17:11 would get preached more: "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Healthy skepticism is part of a noble character.
I don't think examining the Scriptures to see if something is true can be reasonably considered "healthy skepticism". This would more properly be described as an unhealthy skewing of the meaning of "skepticism". Someone with a healthy level of skepticism would not consider examining the scriptures as a means of verifying truth. At best it can uncover contradictions, but proving that what Paul said was consistent would in no way indicate whether what Paul said was true. The Bereans, it appears, suffered from some very unhealthy misconceptions
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that science only requires observation as a postulate and no other 'leaps of faith'. That is the difference between science and religion. Science doesn't expect you to believe in a bearded man on a cloud that watches your every move, or in angels or in eternal damnation. Observation and thought, that's it.
But as long as your religion doesn't condone those slaves in the basement, that's fine with me.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm, how come every Scientology story must have some post diverting attention to Catholicism, trying to lend legitimacy to Scientology as a religion?
Let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we? And that topic is that Scientology apparently enslaved this person.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hmm, how come every Scientology story must have some post diverting attention to Catholicism, trying to lend legitimacy to Scientology as a religion?
Snicker, snort. You're mistaking digs at Catholic Cultism for ascription of legitimacy.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe you have it backwards. I think the post you reference is trying to point out that there is really no reason not to treat catholicism with the same utter contempt that we treat scientology.
I personally think it should be taken one step further than that. All organized religion should be treated with utter contempt.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Q: What is the difference between a religion and a cult?
A: Time.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't start a Scientology debate when Catholicism is in the news, so you shouldn't start a Catholicism debate when Scientology is in the news. It's completely asinine, and it's what the Scientologists want to 'legitimize' their organization. Whether you think the Catholic Church is more or less legitimate is irrelevant.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:4, Insightful)
I personally think it should be taken one step further than that. All organized religion should be treated with utter contempt.
That's an interesting thought, I'd like to hear more. Actually, no, I'll just blindly follow your authority. Could I give you money? If I treat all other organized religions with utter contempt, maybe declaring a holy war against them, will I go to some type of pleasurable afterlife?
The form? It's right here: (Score:5, Informative)
Principia Discordia. [principiadiscordia.com]
Disorganized religion. There you go. Read it now, thank me later fnord.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally think you took one step too far when you afforded the CoS the respect of referring to them as an organized religion. They're not, catholicism is, there's a huge difference.
Yep, about two thousand years and a few million followers.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:4, Interesting)
Many people would say some organizational structures are better able to resist corruption than others. It's been my perception that (monotheistic) religion is particular vulnerable to corruption since it's trivially easy for the organization to be corrupted from the top down. In most cases the leader is expected to be the holiest of people and thus even questioning the leader can easily be cast as lack of faith in the entire religion.
Even if everything can be corrupted, but it might useful to look at how easily corrupted different organizational structures are.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sticky subject that is likely to insult somebody, no matter how you approach it.
I can say that I have met some Jewish people with questionable business morals, but then again I've met people with NO religious beliefs that are far worse.
As far as slavery and forced labor goes, the long-running genocide in Darfur is essentially Muslim controlled militias attacking indigenous tribes-people, people that have been a source of slaves for Muslim slavers for hundreds of years.
The rallying cry for some of the Janjaweed (means "devil on horseback") militia forces has been "Kill the slaves, kill the slaves!"
But then again, the region where the Janjaweed are killing defenseless, unarmed villagers also happens to center around a government-held oil pipeline that sends 80% of the regions oil to China.
So maybe religion has nothing to do with it? Maybe some people are just assholes?
And to complicate matters, some people seem to feel compelled to put Scientology in the same group as Christianity and Islam when we ALL know Scientology is just a big SCAM. It is NOT a religion just because they say it is. It is a scam disguised as a religion.
Oranges and Apples, my friends...Don't give them the credit they so desire.
Re:That's pretty evil. (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be easy to respond to such a statement in kind. You don't like any kind of religion, so you fail to discern the differences in your attempt at lumping them all together as worthless and meaningless.
Yes, scientology and any real religion share "certain characteristics". They are made up of people. That's the main one. They believe in things you can't prove (but then, doesn't everyone?) They get together to meet with like-minded believers. All very damning similarities, I know.
This does not mean that others cannot make the discernment. For example, cults which have "secret handshakes" or require payments to achieve various levels of "salvation", versus religions that don't.
Go to a tent meeting sometime and ask the people there what their religion is about. You'll walk away having been told just about everything you need to know, and what you weren't told you can ask and find out. (I didn't say you'd believe it or understand it yourself, but the information will be made freely available.) Try the same thing at a Scientology meeting. Apples and rutabagas.
Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since they are classified as a religion (thanks to infiltration of CoS into the IRS) wouldn't his service be considered 'worship' and 'volunteering'. However it wouldn't surprise me if they actually were actually doing much worse than just killing people.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:4, Insightful)
what do you mean? they already had some kind of formal document about shooting people when necessary, there isn't much more out there. CoS needs to be gone, period.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Funny)
Its called audit method R2-45. Two .45 cal slugs to the chest will release the thetans inhabiting even the most infected person.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Ha. Ha. It's funny because it's true.
I read it like that in the voice of the character from Family Guy. It gave me a good laugh.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Interesting)
And L. Ron Hubbard apparently ordered it used on several occasions by Sea Org on certain individuals!
I need to look at the refs on this fucking wikipedia article this is unbelievable...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R2-45 [wikipedia.org]
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hubbard himself gave the order on 6 March 1968, referring to *specific people* in an HCO Ethics order that was seized during an FBI raid. Referring to these once valued Scientologists, LRH said, and I quote, "They are declared Enemies of mankind, the planet and all life." ... " They are fair game." ... and "Any Sea Org member contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45."
Would you consider that a joke? If so, it's a pretty bad one.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:4, Informative)
R2-45 is more of a joke than anything else and should be taken as such. It should be taken in the same vein of the Darwin Award.
From Teh Wiki (WITH citations, it seems):
On March 6, 1968, Hubbard issued an internal memo titled "RACKET EXPOSED," in which he denounced twelve people (Peter Goodwin, Jim Stathis, Peter Knight, Mrs. Knight, Nora Goodwin, Ron Frost, Margaret Frost, Nina Collingwood, Freda Gaiman, Frank Manley, Mary Ann Taylor, and George Wateridge) as "Enemies of mankind, the planet and all life," and ordered that "Any Sea Org member contacting any of them is to use Auditing Process R2-45."[7][8] Former Scientologist Bent Corydon wrote that in late 1967 at Saint Hill, he personally received a copy of an order naming four former Scientologists as enemies and "fair game" and ordering any Sea Org member who encountered them to use R2-45.[9][10]
Yeah, that sounds real fucking funny to me. I LOL'd.
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:5, Informative)
Since they are classified as a religion (thanks to infiltration of CoS into the IRS) wouldn't his service be considered 'worship' and 'volunteering'. However it wouldn't surprise me if they actually were actually doing much worse than just killing people.
It wasn't infiltration, though I'm not saying they didn't try that too. They basically said "give us religious status for tax purposes or we'll all misfile out forms and delay payments as long as possible, good luck finding the resources to pursue even a fraction of our members", and the IRS conceded that it would cost less to let them have their way than to try force them to behave.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Classified as a religion? (Score:4, Informative)
Since they are classified as a religion (thanks to infiltration of CoS into the IRS) wouldn't his service be considered 'worship' and 'volunteering'.
Interesting point, but the document linked by Iphtashu Fitz (the complaint filed) addresses this as follows:
The First Amendment does not exempt purported religious organizations from Minimum Wage and Child Labor Laws. Elvig v. Calvin Presbyterian Church, 397 F.3d 790, 792 (9th Cir 2003).
Bottom of page 6, top of page 7 in the Complaint (look for Iphtashu Fitz's link further down). It also details his age at the time of said service and the extent of services rendered.
About damn time. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:About damn time. (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you kidding? What does a prosecutor have to gain from prosecuting CoS for slavery? A little publicity for prosecuting on hearsay? You think he'll get warrants to investigate the tight-as-a-witches-bum CoS? Likely to backfire.
What do they have to lose? Credibility? Their career? Personal safety?
Re:About damn time. (Score:4, Informative)
If the civil suit is successful, that implies that the plaintiff (who obviously shoulders the burden of proof) was able to convince a judge that a major American and multi-national organization illegally enslaved him in a secure compound for a decade and a half.
The DA might take an interest considering a lot of the leg work will already have been done for them.
Charged or charging? (Score:4, Funny)
I think the headline is wrong...they usually charge people for services, not vice versa! wtf?
FLSA (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no law against working in a compound which has barbed wire. So that sounds like some crap to feed the media.
The $50/week pay could be grounds for him to sue them for back wages, supposing he has proof that he worked more than 10 hours per week and that they only paid him $50 during such weeks.
For the slavery charge, he would need to prove that he tried to quit/leave but was forcibly prevented from doing so. Did he call the police on such occasions?
I'm thinking he may have a hard time proving his case. Accusations alone won't do it; he'll need evidence.
Re:FLSA (Score:5, Informative)
There needs to be sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was kidnapped, and not staying voluntarily.
Did you miss the point that he was eight years old at the time?
Well, if there's no evidence that he was forcibly detained, there will be no successful prosecution.
Yep. you missed the point that he was eight years old at the time!
Eight-year-olds do not have free will under California law. They have the legally recognized ability to tattle, and that's about it. On the other hand, there *are* strict child-labor laws in effect.
I have no sympathies for any particular religious group. I just hope the law is upheld and no prosecution based solely on unsupported claims is successful.
First is the question: are they actually a regligious group? See France's recent rulings for more information. There's certainly reasonable doubt on the question!
Second: The claims are very, VERY widely supported. Literally hundreds of people (and I mean literally, not figuratively) have come forth with their stories of harrassment, false imprisonment / kidnapping, extortion, and plenty more.
Just take a look for yourself... [scientology-lies.com]
Original complaint (Score:4, Informative)
For those of you who are interested, you can read the original court complaint filing here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23175190/Complaint-filed112509 [scribd.com]
Ah My Homeland (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, along with that diversity is an unfathomable tolerance for some particularly poignant cases of stupidity...like our state budget. There is no doubt that the strong and vocal religious groups here in California would raise exception and a helluva kerfuffle over their church being towed to court for slavery. But I wonder if any of those groups see a case regarding Scientology as a threat. After all sometimes the most belligerent opposition to one religion comes from another religion. I have seen folks in Fawkes masks walking around my local famer's market protesting Scientology. However, I have also had Scientologists try to recruit me both in my home town and when I wander the rest of the state. So this will certainly be an interesting case to watch. I hope it garners some attention and noise in this state and, perhaps, even in our country. Exposing Scientology for the cult and crime syndicate it is certainly is, in my opinion, a righteous cause....
Well if there's one thing we Californians know how to do, its garner attention and make some noise. I'm gonna go pop some popcorn...
Gold Base (Gilman Springs, CA) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Gold Base (Gilman Springs, CA) (Score:5, Informative)
That is so cool - followed your link to Gold Base then switched to Google street view. At the corner of their property I saw a small compound with a cement block building - surrounded by a barbed-wire fence facing inward! [tiny.cc]
No difference than the Christian cult (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No difference than the Christian cult (Score:5, Insightful)
My parents forced me to go to church every week, then sunday school, and during the week I would be forced to work as an altar boy for no pay. All the time I was brainwashed with repetitive prayers and actions. A cult is a cult is a cult. It doesn't matter that here in North America we tend to be fond of a particular one.
That's a very poor argument. You can swap out "church" for almost any other childhood activity. For example, soccer:
My parents forced me to go to soccer every week and play a game on saturday, and during the week I would be forced to go to soccer practice for no pay. All the time I was brainwashed with repetitive stretches and drills.
In other words, equating Sunday school and being an altar boy to doing film editing production is silly. The former are childhood activities, not jobs. But I suppose most Slashdotters take any opportunity to bash Christianity (note: I am not a Christian).
Re:No difference than the Christian cult (Score:4, Interesting)
A cult by definition is a religious group - it's silly for you to equate a religious activity with a sports activity.
A cult is a religious group, but a religious group is not necessarily a cult. If all 'A's are 'B's, all 'B's are not necessarily 'A's. As another poster mentioned, Christianity is far from a cult. Yes, it has rituals, as does any religion. But rituals do not make a cult. You're free to leave the Christian church at any time. Blame your parents for keeping you in church as a kid, just as a kid who doesn't like soccer might blame his parents for keeping him in the sport against his will.
Re:No difference than the Christian cult (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, my parents had me in church a lot as a kid. As an adult, I pretty much stopped going. Know what? My mom still likes me and I still have plenty of friends who go to church, and as far as I know none of them have shunned me as a pariah. I don't think you can really give a group "cult" status when there's no penalty for leaving and they're still nice to you afterward.
This isn't the first time (Score:4, Informative)
CoS "base" in Colorado (Score:5, Interesting)
I once had the opportunity to read part of the diary of a teenage girl who had been at a Scientology "Base" in Colorado. I don't recall the name of it, or even whether she mentioned it by name (this was 20 years ago). The disruptive, corruptive effects her involvement with this Base and the CoS had on her state of mind were obvious from what she wrote. While I don't recall whether she described any physical enslavement, the mental enslavement was apparent.
Why they're still getting away with it mystifies me; pretty much everyone now knows what they're doing and how they're doing it.
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:4, Informative)
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Insightful)
Allow me to re-phrase that for you:
The problem wasn't the conditions in which slaves were kept; the problem is that human beings were indistinguishable from livestock in the minds of their owners.
You ought to learn about what the loss of liberty does to a human being before you trot out this useless tripe again.
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Informative)
Slavery actually connotes a position of involuntary servitude rather than one where payment is withheld. That is, it is the lack of freedom that is the main attribute of slavery, not the lack of compensation.
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Insightful)
Slavery actually connotes a position of involuntary servitude rather than one where payment is withheld. That is, it is the lack of freedom that is the main attribute of slavery, not the lack of compensation.
Slavery actually connotes a position of involuntary servitude rather than one where payment is withheld. That is, it is the lack of freedom that is the main attribute of slavery, not the lack of compensation.
The barbed wire at Gold Base is on the inside of the fence not on the outside.
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Funny)
You don't count being held in a compound surrounded by razor wire and forced to work 16-24 hours a day at age 8 as "involuntary servitude"?
No, obviously they do count that as involuntary, since the point was to contradict a post claiming this wasn't slavery due to him being paid. In other words, they are saying he was a slave.
This post has been brought to you by the Center For Explaining the Obvious to the Reading Comprehension Impaired, a tax-exempt religious charity organization that you can join and learn more about for the low low cost of $5000.
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Funny)
Do you have a pop psychology book and a secret black box with some electrodes I could tape to my skin?
I'm normally not supposed to answer questions like this until you pay the initial $5000 fee, but the answers respectively are "no, psychology is a mole-men conspiracy" and "yes, but the electrodes don't go on your skin, and you need lube not tape".
Re:If he was paid $50, he wasn't a "slave" (Score:5, Insightful)
how is that different from old mining towns? (Score:5, Insightful)
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don'tcha call me 'cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store."
That song reflected the reality of tens of thousands of people in Appalachia.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:5, Informative)
Scientology has become relevant to Slashdot and its readership ever since CoS removed content from Slashdot under DMCA [slashdot.org]. It's quote obviously News for Nerds now, and, noting the DMCA reference (and the fact that it's common CoS practice, not a single isolated case), definitely related to Your Rights Online. If it's still not clear, try posting OT-III materials in a /. comments and see how that goes.
ok (Score:5, Informative)
link 2 [wikileaks.fi]
link 3 [wikileaks.eu]
"If you want to control your child, simply break him into complete apathy and he'll be as obedient as any hypnotized half-wit. If you want to know how to control him, get a book on dog training, name the child Rex and teach him first to "fetch" and then to "sit up" and then to bark for his food. You can train a child that way. Sure you can. But it's your hard luck if he turns out to be a blood-letter. Only don't be half-hearted about it. Simply TRAIN him. "Speak, Roger!" "Lie down!" "Roll over!" Of course, you'll have a hard time of it. This - a slight oversight - is a human being. You'd better charge right in and do what you can to break him into apathy quickly. A club is best. Tying him in a closet without food for a few days is fairly successful. The best recommended tactic, however, is simply to use a straight jacket and muffs on him until he is docile and imbecilic. I'm warning you that it's going to be tough; it will be tough because Man became king of the beasts only because he couldn't as a species be licked. He doesn't easily go into an obedient apathy like dogs do. Men own dogs because men are self-determined and dogs aren't. --Official church documents
I got nothing better going on.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmmm ...
You don't think a story about a religion that was founded by a science fiction writer, teaches that we are from some other planet and uses something called an "E-meter" to locate and eliminate "engrams" in its followers belongs on Slashdot?
I must be new here.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:4, Funny)
I actually read the first half of Dianetics during a stint in a county jail, and quite a bit of it made sense.
Engrams, IIRC, are things that have happened to people during their childhood and are repressed to the point that they are damaging. A lot of what goes on in the "auditing" (again, IIRC) is equivalent to regressive hypno-therapy. Breaking down those walls could possibly open people up to entirely new aspects of life, and worlds of possibility.
Of course once the walls are broken down, they lay on the sci-fi-churchy-brainwashing-crapola. That is where I stopped reading.
When wikileaks first got famous in relation to Scientology, I grabbed copies of every available piece of CoS literature that I could download. Upon skimming through it I found there are some methods that seem quite useful as tools for training salespeople.
There are protocols where people train one another, for example one shouts obscenities at the other person nonstop for hours on end, and then the roles reverse and the training continues. Imagine how valuable this could be to salespeople, to make them immune to criticism and unafraid of verbal confrontation.
There are some good bits in the CoS materials, don't dismiss it out of hand.
The cult part of it is crap though. :)
And here is one for you, CoS - L. Ron Hubbard was a drunken pedophile who wishes he could lick the sweat out of my asscrack. Your religion is a cult, and your cult is worthless. Get a life, losers.
Word.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:4, Insightful)
I think most nerds are interested in a lot of topics beyond computers, sci-fi and anime. Thats the only reason needed. News for Nerds, stuff that matters... thats potentially everything, but with a nerd bias.
In other words, intelligent news.
If you want news about a cute doggy that's adopted a litter of kitty cats, then watch TV. If you want news about a study of inter-species social interactions, read slashdot.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:5, Interesting)
The war between Scientology vs. The Internet [wikipedia.org] has been going on pretty much since there was an Internet.
The Co$ practically invented the Hipcrime sporgery [wikipedia.org] attack technique that still plagues USENET to this day. It was directly responsible for taking down the world's first anonymous remailer [wikipedia.org] (anon.penet.fi) in 1996, and compromised every user of that service. Its shill legislator got his name stamped onto the Mickey Mouse Protection Act [wikipedia.org] in 1998.
It has been a consistent and implacable foe of the free exchange of information on the Internet for the better part of 20 years, and it will not stop until it - either the Cult or the Internet - ceases to exist in its current form. Anything that could deplete the cult's financial reserves is a priori a good thing for Your Rights Online, and anything that the cult wants is a priori a threat to Your Rights Online.
Asking "What does the Co$ have to do with YRO?" is like asking "What does NSA have to do with surveillance?" Both are threats to your ability to speak freely. NSA may break the law from time to time, but for all we bitch about it, at least it acknowledges the existence of legal restrictions on its ability to carry out its mission. Co$ doesn't even recognize the concept of law, except as a means of filing strategic lawsuits against public participation, or as a means to otherwise harass its critics.
Re:How Is This Nerd News??!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Look around for COS stories on the internet, and read the comments. You'll find some derivation of that exact comment over and over in every single one of them.
Re:Scientology as a force for good? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's really hard, because the benefits of most religions are often highly subjective. The only defense I can think of is that they could be a lot worse (ie. Jonestown, Heaven's Gate), and they certainly aren't worse than the TV evangelist types who also rake in obscene amounts of money from the True Believers.
I remember one article I read on them stated that their biggest problem is their intense paranoia of the outside world. A lot of the reasons they've done some of the nasty things they've done (like infiltrating Ontario government offices in the 1970s) are ill-informed and misjudged attempts at security.
L. Ron Hubbard was most certainly a con artist, but he was also a bit of a paranoid type, not to mention the self-aggrandizing that he got out of a lot of the cloak-and-dagger bullshit. The problem for $cientologists after him is that I think a lot of them didn't get the joke. In short, their inheritors of L. Ron's madness, but in a more pure and fanatical form.
Re:serious question: Isnt this a "Monastary"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Monasteries typically don't have:
* Sniper nests
* Double bladed razor fences
* Motion sensors facing inside
* Armed security guard preventing people from leaving
* A full arsenal of guns
* People are allowed to leave
* Phone calls & mail are not monitored & prefiltered
* Phone calls from concerned relatives are not coached
* People inside are not punished when someone leaves
* Nunneries don't coerce females to have abortions to keep up productivity
* Emergency calls to the police actually go to the police & not internal security
* Don't make 'bad' monks clean septic tanks with their hands (no tools, JUST their hands).
* Don't throw members into a shit pond for not behaving by their standards.
* Get to see their family
* Are not physically beat, kicked or strangled by their leader David Miscavige.
* Are not asked by their leader David Miscavige to beat/attack other members who are not living up to the leader's standards.
* Are permitted time for personal hygiene when being punished for information leaks.
* Do not go into lock down when information leaks