China Starts/Stops Blocking Google 142
shekared was one of a number of readers to write in to tell a similar story. He says "I'm an American currently living and working in Chongqing, China. As of 9am (UTC +8) China began blocking google.com, gmail.com, google analytics and many if not most other google sites other than google.cn. Internet speed for connections outside the mainland have in general have come to a crawl. Surprisingly this has yet to pick up major coverage in the press. Using an open proxy or VPN for connection to hosts outside of the mainland continues to allow access to google, as does connecting directly to a google.com IP address.
As of 6pm (UTC +8) access to gmail and google.com have returned to normal."
Please come to the local station (Score:5, Funny)
Dear Sir,
We know who you are, we were just conducting tests and installing tools to enhance your dedicated internet connection.
Now that you have made this public, could you come to the local authorities station right away so we can settle things up ?
If you do not come, we will have to go get you at your work place and we would like to avoid this embarrassment for yourself. We also have enabled airport and border checks for yourself so you won't be allowed to leave the country before we meet.
Regards,
Liu Cheng
Security officer,
Republic of China
Re:Please come to the local station (Score:5, Informative)
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They are both Republic of China, one is the Peoples Republic of China, the other is the Democratic Republic of China. They both call themselves "The Republic of China" internally. The Democratic Republic is normally the one to have the descriptor dropped in the west however.
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Re:Please come to the local station (Score:5, Informative)
You're correct.
A Chinese passport says "People's republic of China" (PRC), and a Taiwanese passport says "Republic of China" (ROC)
Supermarkets in China will often have imported goods under the label "Chinese Taiwan"
Let's leave the details for diplomats, our government overlords, and deranged Chinese nationalists to squabble over.
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...deranged Chinese nationalists...
History has shown that a list of nationalists that aren't deranged would be very short indeed. Nationalism and religion share a very high derangement factor. And that's what makes them both very effective tools in motivating masses of people to do the authoritarian's dirty work for them, with great enthusiasm. It doesn't matter what country they live in. The disease is global.
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"The Nationalists" usually refers to the KMT - the party that were defeated in the civil war by the communists, and fled to Taiwan.
To be fair, I think you should refer to the "deranged Chinese Nationalists" AS WELL AS the "deranged Chinese Communists". Please be a little more inclusive. Thank you.
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Internally, the PRC's official name is pronounced: "Zhonghua renmin gongheguo" (sadly /. doesn't seem to work with Chinese characters). That "renmin" bit means "the people", whereas thee other two words mean "China" and "Republic" respectively. In English, they usually just call themselves "China" these days, even in official documents like a Chinese visa, but when they use the full name, they always put the "People's" bit in.
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Republic of China is Taiwan, not mainland China.
There, fixed that for you.
There, fixed that for you.
Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
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Can you still access www.castleargh.com?
Block Google Since Bing Will Play Ball (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Block Google Since Bing Will Play Ball (Score:4, Informative)
Does MS ever resist? (Score:1, Troll)
Sorry for being cynical, but I always get the feeling that if there is something authoritarian to participate in Microsoft is first in line. Examples:
- Windows DRM
- Windows Media DRM
- Zune DRM - incompatible with Windows Media DRM
- Windows Advantage - when it works
- Site blocking
- HDCP
- Paying Zune royalties to the media industry
- Others?
Sure, Microsoft did not come up with all these solut
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And if they did, would it be newsworthy?
After all, Google is a household word almost everywhere on the planet. Most people think that Bing is a kind of cherry, or a movie star from the '40s.
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My first thought was 'Yeah, because it can't possibly be a problem with the internet... It has to be China doing something nasty.'
Hell, the article itself said service came back for some before others... That in itself says that it's probably the net and not China.
Nothing to see here, move along.
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That's what people are afraid will happen.
Re:calm down chinaphiles... (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's kinda unusual for it to happen blanket across all DNS's at the same instant, following a critical piece of reportage on Google by the government owned television network (which received a 40bn Yuan advertising revenue gift from arch-rival Baidu shortly before the Google critical piece, and shortly after a critical pie
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Part of what China's blocking/filtering systems do is to transparently filter all DNS requests. e.g. to block YouTube at the moment, not only do they do IP filtering, but they screw with the DNS. If I try to look up www.youtube.com, I get a totally random, totally different IP address each time. This happens EVEN if point dig/nslookup/resolv.conf to a DNS server outside China... they just transparently filter it and give me a bugus response.
So a "failure of DNS", as you put it, doesn't necessarily absolve C
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...because it can't possibly be a problem with the internet...
Maybe a Zeppelin dropped a skyhook on one of their cables.
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Hell, the article itself said service came back for some before others... That in itself says that it's probably the net and not China.
In my experience (I'm in China), that's not really an indication. The "great firewall" seems to be constructed in various parts, and they don't always do the same things at the same times.
Gauging response? (Score:3, Interesting)
It seems to me that google is one of the sites on the internet that make china's censorship work much more difficult. It's not hard to imagine that they'd like google gone for good. Unfortunately, google is a very real part of a lot of people's lives.
Is it possible that this (and other similar actions) are attempts to see if they would be able to get away with blocking google for a longer period of time, and not cause a mass uproar?
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Not gauging response. Sending message.
"We can destroy your business in here on whim. Now, be nice and play by the rules."
And people wonder why Google turned evil while ago and cooperates with censor-states.
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Google is a real part of YOUR life. Most Chinese haven't even heard of it.
In any event, google.cn is apparently still available.
Local Laws (Score:1, Insightful)
This is not news, nor should it be news. China is a sovereign nation and can do as it pleases within its own borders as long as no international laws are broken; and I'm pretty sure that denying access to Googl
Re:Local Laws (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes because obviously he's complaining that "The great evil china is violating my rights".
No.. it simply stated that china started blocking google. When one of the most censorship happy regimes starts blocking the biggest search provider in the world IT IS NEWS.
Your rock, go back under it.
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A) i'm in the states, i have no problem
B) try a different DNS
Re:Local Laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Saying that something is okay as long as it's not covered by existing international law is saying "do anything you want as long as the rest of us haven't thought of it yet." Indeed, international law barely exists - at core it's nothing more than the various treaties and agreements between states. It tends to have very little to do with individuals. There is no international Congress that can pass a law that affects all nations - don't even get me started on the UN (or as I've taken to calling it lately, the League of United Nations).
If China wanted to execute all couples who had more than two children, they could do so. It wouldn't be against any international law. Does that make it right? Does that mean humanitarian organizations should back off and shut up? Hell no.
Being a sovereign nation gives you the ABILITY (not the right) to do as you wish in many circumstances. It sure as hell doesn't give a "Mandate of Heaven" that says all your decisions will be correct and good for people.
Sure, censoring Google may seem like a small thing, but compare it to the censorship that still exists regarding things like the Tiananmen square massacre - or as it's euphemized in China, the "June 4th incident." It's still a completely forbidden topic in media and print. That's the kind of BS that overarching censorship can lead to.
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Correct or good decisions for whom? You as an American?
Re:Local Laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Correct or good decisions for whom? You as an American?
Yes, him as an American, or me as a Brit. Or you as a... whatever you are. Us, collectively, as people with subjective ethical systems. Being aware of certain types of behaviour[1] allows us to make judgements on whether these countries are, collectively, following an ethical system we regard as compatible with our own. If they are not, then we have the option of not visiting them, not doing business with them or (in extreme cases) supporting rebellions in these countries. Making ethical decisions is a large part of what being human entails. If you are not comfortable with it, then pick a mass media outlet to make these determinations for you; it's easier than thinking.
[1] In this case, it sounds like someone just messed up with a DNS cache configuration, rather than doing anything malicious, but let's talk hypotheticals for a bit.
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For example:-
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Britain - Surveillance society (*cough* Echelon *cough*)
Are you seriously suggesting that no brits are criticizing this?
EU - Fines US companies for breaking EU law (oh noes)
Technically, it was EU departments of an US company that got fined. EU cannot fine a US company. And why should a company be exempt from laws just because their mother firm resides in another country?
I'm British BTW, and getting tired of all the rhetoric and hypocrisy
Heh.
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Not at all. Just that its our business and our problem to sort out.
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I have great respect for America's determination to protect freedom and free speech. That word means a lot to you, as it does to me.
But wait, before you call it a Tiananmen square "massacre" - do you consider that ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND [iraqbodycount.org] people are now dead in Iraq. Last week, a drone killed 140 people in Afganistan, mostly innocents.
So, as opposed to thousands of their own people killed by the Chinese, you went to another country and killed much much more.
I am not saying it is worse; just saying that taking a
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Second, there's a moral difference between shooting at someone intending to kill them and someone getting caught in the crossfire du
Re:Local Laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Trade restriction. And EU is bringing that up to UN. Just like America did recently about CHina restricting EXPORTS of Steel making minerals. China is cheating all the way to the bank, and the west either needs to crack down on China, or better yet, SLOWLY raise similar barriers. For example, slowly drop the dollar and Euro against the Yuan on imports. That will encourage China to free their money. Likewise, if China does not drop their trade barriers like they agreed to do by 2002, then we should slowly and methodically raise ours.
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As to the economy, that is why I said to raise barriers SLOWLY. Give China time to do the right thing (free their money and drop trade barriers). It is far better to have full 2 way trade, then not. If they do not do the right thing, then slowly basic manufacturing will return to the west.
As to the softwood issue, that is not a big deal. I am guessing that Canada will do the co
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Free trade with nations that are not free is call exploitation. It's collusion between an authoritarian government exploiting its silenced population and the merchants exploiting the ignorance of their consumers. Authoritarian governments rule by force and it's naive to think that there will not be a corresponding rise in military prowess with every net inflow of economic dollar, yet we continues to feed countries like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia as if freedom is indeed free. One day, we are all goi
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No, really. I find no fault in your words. It sucks that China does this but it is their choice. Denying people access to Google is not a crime in the international courts. People may not like it but gov't doesn't always make choices that people like. OT: I particularly enjoyed how the mod trolls moded you as troll. If i had mod points I'd give you a point UP. Unfortunately I used it all yesterday
Hey
Let's all go shop at Walmart to Protest! (Score:5, Funny)
I have a great idea! Let's show our support for Democracy and condemn the actions of the fascist dicatorship with a big shopping spree at Walmart. Maybe if we give these guys 500 billion dollars a year, they will be nice to us and freedom will reign and shower everyone with joy!
Re:Let's all go shop at Walmart to Protest! (Score:4, Insightful)
The sad part is that few care enough about Democracy, Liberty, and Freedom (add Western Liberal Tradition Value here) to pay higher prices for non-Chinese (or other Slave State) products. Of course, many care enough to endure hardship and risk life and limb in Iraq and Afghanistan to promote those same values (as they genuinely believe). Strange, isn't it?
Re:Let's all go shop at Walmart to Protest! (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't see where Authoritarian or Anarchism ever effectively promoted Liberty, Freedom, or any other Liberal Western value. Authoritarian states always limit or deny these ideals and Anarchist states always fail to defend the citizenry against outside aggression.
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What is the deal with you and Liberal Western values? Are you suggesting that the whole world should adopt the same values as their own?
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I don't advocate "regime change" through outside force as a normal practice. The whole world would probably be happier if it did adopt Liberty, Rule of Law, Representative Government, etc. These aren't exclusively Western ideals or ideas, nor should only Westerners be the only ones to benefit.
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And you're a coward and an idiot. The key word in my previous post is "effectively".
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Have you tried to buy non-Chinese products lately? I have, when purchasing power tools and hand tools. So far, I'm 2 for 5 at finding the right product IN ANY PRICE RANGE that's not marked "Made in China." The metal Vise-Grips were made in the USA and the hedge shears were made in Mexico, with parts from Taiwan and Vietnam. The corded electric drills were all from China. The routers were all from China, except one professional-grade model far beyond what I needed. The wet-dry vacs were all made in Chi
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> to pay higher prices for non-Chinese products
No one wants their Apple stuff to be even more expensive that it already is, thank you very much!
NB, not all Chinese products are cheap and/or poor quality; it's all a matter of quality control and demand.
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And of course, walmart itself is a fascist dictatorship if you think about it. A rather hostile fascist dictatorship that economically destroys local small businesses, lowers overall GDP of the area, and subverts nations' economic control. IMO it is worse than China, it's like early stages of the soviet union but without communism.
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walmart itself is a fascist dictatorship if you think about it.
Close, as various people have pointed out that it satisfies one of the primary features of fascism: The close ties between the business and your local government. (Yes, people in the US do mostly use "fascist" as an epithet that's empty of meaning, but the term has a historic definition. Close ties between government and business is one of the important pieces of that definition. Use of patriotism and religion rather than logic or science are t
Google analytics (Score:2, Insightful)
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the difference is usually it's the user blocking them outside of china via adblock or whatever
my experiences... (Score:4, Interesting)
im traveling in china for the last 6 weeks and the state of internet connections here is very random.
domestic sites, like the immensely popular QQ and baidu, are always _very_ responsive.
google sometimes gets a slow down to the extend that it is nearly unusable (that really help people here to move over to the super fast and slightly more chineese friendly baidu).
the main thing is the randomness, if it is connectivity/ congestion issues, or some conspiracy: no-one knows.
local plus great wall (Score:2, Interesting)
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What the hell do you do that you have a whole apartment full of people watching your every move?
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I lived in Shanghai last year. It's definitely the randomness that's the killer. Some sites would work for me at home, but not in the office, and vice versa. Some sites would be responsive, but then grind to a halt. Latency to sites outside of China was variable, and often incredibly high. Packet loss sometimes became high enough to make some sites inaccessible. I ended up installing Squid on a machine on our corporate network in California and then accessed it over the VPN (which also seems to be mor
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My personal opinion is that the randomness is a tool to coax people into changing their behaviour. If you find that some foreign site is frequently unreliable, you'll change to another one (possibly domestic) that is more reliable.
It's like a glitch in the Matrix (Score:5, Funny)
They just changed something.
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This happens all the time. (Score:1, Informative)
International connections slow to a crawl on any politically sensitive event(most likely green dam filtering in this case). Any major news source that carries said political news(say hello google news) will slow down to a crawl, or not load at all. The major news doesn't carry this because it happens at least a half dozen times a year....
Google should block China (Score:2, Interesting)
Give them a week with no google, no gmail, no google maps, and see what kind of reaction the chinese government gets. Then say they can have their google back when they agree to stop blocking it.
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This is not a good idea: imagine what happens when they discover that life can be better and more productive when they do not waste their time with google services...
BIG MISTAKE (Score:3, Insightful)
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Planning for the future? (Score:1)
Trends (Score:2)
20$ on China being the first country in the 21st century to make encryption illegal. Things are only going to be worse, not better.
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Chinese people would be great schoolteachers (Score:1)
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I've long thought that "maturity" was typically used to mean "willingness to knuckle under". Thanks for confirming that.
regardless of china's public claims (Score:5, Interesting)
making google unreliable is a subtle argument for chinese citizens to depend upon chinese competitors to google, such as baidu
http://www.baidu.com/ [baidu.com]
does the outlay of that page look familiar to you?
for example, if my gmail account in china is unreliable- due to no fault of google, but unreliable nonetheless, that means i would tend to use some other email provider for that vital service. for baidu, all you have to do is have a fellow nationalist stooge in the government hit the flicker switch on google's traffic every now and then. since china is filtering everything anyway via centralized national authority, that's not hard to arrange
its a subtle and effective form of protectionism, something which the usa and other trading partners of china have noticed a severe uptick of recently, due to the global economic climate. which is especially hypocritical, since china, as a major exporter, is always complaining about protectionism
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/business/economy/24yuan.html [nytimes.com]
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making google unreliable is a subtle argument for chinese citizens to depend upon chinese competitors to google, such as baidu
I don't think google has ever been a big hit in China in the first place. There're differences on how they're being used: http://searchengineland.com/chinese-eye-tracking-study-baidu-vs-google-11477
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that's not capitalism (Score:2)
that's cronyism, corruption, nepotism, protectionism
capitalism implies the notion of fair competition. manipulations of the system, like the three issues above, or monopolies, impede capitalism, they don't enhance it. of course these manipulations can develop organically out of a capitalist system. well, a dictatorship can develop out of a democracy organically too, but that doesn't mean a dictatorship is part of a democracy. it means that systems can devolve and morph over time into something else, a devel
If the IP works, it's not a block (Score:1)
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China's blocking system also includes manipulating DNS. Chinese DNS servers currently return toally random IP addresses for www.youtube.com; and queries to non-Chinese DNS servers are transparently proxied and altered with the same effect. I haven't seen a case of DNS being blocked without a corresponding IP block, but it's certainly do-able. I don't think just saying "but the IPs aren't blocked, it's only a DNS problem!" doesn't mean it's not the gov't doing it.
DNS issue (Score:2, Interesting)
Also Covered by BBC (Score:1)
The BBC is covering it here [bbc.co.uk], and adds that China has accused Google of spreading pornography. This comes as China is requiring all new computers to come with "Green Dam" filtering software.
directly to a google.com IP address (Score:2)
Thats funny, so just use alternate DNS servers and you are home free.
Pretty lame if you ask me.
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China transparently redirects/alters DNS requests to non-Chinese DNS servers.
ZH connections (Score:2, Informative)
I'm posting this from China.
Google was off and on all today. Youtube is still blocked, 1 or 2 months since the last /. article about it, thought one proxy easily deals with the issue.
Other random factoids of note from a Chinese computer (not from a hotel; they use different censorship deals for Hotels than private residences).
The New York Times site is fully functional
Wikipedia works on everything except articles specifically talking about Chinese badstuff (IE you can visit the Chinese page, the PRC page, n
Thought Police (Score:2, Insightful)
When are they going to learn that the flow of information can't be stopped?
Shame on Google, Yahoo and Microsoft if they continue to bow down to the dictators so they can make money in China!
Local DNS problem? (Score:2)
Why doesn't anybody suggest the obvious first guess, the reporting guy had a local dns problem, either his office or his provider accidentally misconfigured something.
Doesnt have to be this of course but I usually assume that the risk for human errors are larger the lower in the food chain you go, and the redundancies also are fewer, so instead of assuming all of China lost google, why not start by digging and looking around how spread the issue is first?
In 90% of all cases you find the problem in the first
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China's filtering capabilities include screwing with DNS.
A reply to the "it's not a block" comments... (Score:2, Informative)
Software to bypass China's filtering (Score:2)
^ Above software packages are free for Chinese & Iranian citizens.
Surprising indeed (Score:2)
Surprisingly this has yet to pick up major coverage in the press.
Major coverage? In mainstream press? When Michael Jackson has just died?
Not that I am a great fan, but let's face it, a lot more people know and care about MJ than about whether China blocks one or more aspects of Google. And even without big news stories and things happening in the world, a story about a minor, technical upset in a foreign country is hardly Earth shattering any way.
As for the poor Chinese, who can now no longer access Google's mixture of real search results with undisclosed, sponsored ones
I hate to be a grammar nazi, but.. (Score:2)
"China Starts/Stops Blocking Google"
"China briefly blocks Google" would've done. Honestly, the quality of English in Slashdot stories these days is deteriorating below 5th grade.
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Just elect the Chinese version of Barack Obama, and your problems will be solved.
I'm not sure to laugh or cry
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We did. They was reagan and W.
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In China, you don't have the opportunity to elect someone to run the government...
No, you have no rights to choose your leader (even false hope is not given)
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by Anonymous Cowardon Thursday June 25, @05:40AM