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French Assembly Adopts 3-Strikes Bill 343

An anonymous reader writes "After lots of turmoil, including a surprise rejection and a European amendment against it, Sarkozy's 3 strikes law has just been passed by the French Assembly [in French]: 'The first warning mails ... should be sent in the coming fall. In case of second offenders, the first disconnections should start beginning 2010.'"
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French Assembly Adopts 3-Strikes Bill

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  • by Spatial ( 1235392 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:15PM (#27923343)
    We all know it wasn't decided on merit.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:19PM (#27923395)

      How long until offenders start using the easily accessible encryption to avoid losing their connections? This will effectively make it harder for rights holders who have legitimate claims to go after offenders.

      Whenever you pull the pendulum in one direction, it always swings back in the other one.

      • by calmofthestorm ( 1344385 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:37PM (#27923661)

        Tell me more about this encryption, and who I buy to outlaw it.

        Is this a time to whip out terrorism? Muslims invasion of our culture? Or perhaps child pornography or French culture is the way to go this time.

        • by El Jynx ( 548908 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:45PM (#27923799)
          Encryption has some nasty surprises: you can easily maintain an I-didn't-do-it or I-didn't-know-it level of innocence. This is going to give P2P encryption techniques as well as anonymisation networks a HUGE boost. A LOT of french programmers are going to be quite pissed off, and rightly so.

          Oh man, do I want to do a rant against the French right now. But it'll be allright, just another felix culpa. Die gedänken sind frei, plagiarism is built into nature and the French politicians are swimming upstream; they'll tire sooner or later. Unfortunately this will mean that some families will start using iTunes stores and such, and no doubt the Big Four will take and twist those statistics into an I-Told-You-So.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Plagiarism isn't the same as not recognizing copy "rights". To plagiarize is to take credit for some else's work as if it were you're own. Not recognizing copy "rights" means copy and distributing something that is in you possession, with no claims to authorship. The former is unethical and the latter is natural.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by azgard ( 461476 )

            I think you can. The encryption can be made so user-friendly that you may safely say that you weren't aware that the P2P application you have is using encryption. This is assuming encryption is wrong - you may just as well not care.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by ameline ( 771895 )

          > perhaps ... French culture is the way to go this time.

          I'm sure Sarko is thinking something along these lines...

          Si la transmission est encryptée, n'est-elle plus en français, n'est-ce pas? Ceci diluerait la langue française sacrée. Ceci doit être proscrit immédiatement! :-)

      • by CODiNE ( 27417 )

        Then they outlaw encryption without a license.

      • by Jurily ( 900488 )

        Whenever you pull the pendulum in one direction, it always swings back in the other one.

        Or they could just make a law against encryption, like some countries did against owning big amounts of gold after they left the gold standard.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) <> on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @01:14PM (#27924271) Homepage Journal

        It's a shame such systems are not already in widespread use in the west. On the far east, Japan and South Korea in particular, fully encrypted P2P applications like Share and Perfect Dark are more popular than BitTorrent. Both of those require high speed internet connections, with a high upload rate in particular, so perhaps that's why it's taking longer for them to catch on here.

      • by TerranFury ( 726743 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @02:02PM (#27924987)

        Encryption cannot solve this problem. For filesharing to work, peers who have data must somehow advertise this fact. It doesn't matter if that data is encrypted; you still know what it is and who has it.

        There are only two things filesharers can do:

        1. Try to restrict the people that they advertise to so that they are not caught by the authorities. Here, there are conflicting goals: In order to have lots of data available, you want the largest network possible. But in order to keep things secure, you need as few people in on it as possible. So the more pressure the copyright groups put on the networks, the more the equilibrium shifts towards smaller (and less valuable) networks.

        2. Give data to intermediaries who pass it on. Either this is done with something like onion routing, or sites like rapidshare are used as the intermediaries. This relies on being able to trust the intermediaries to whom you are adjacent. There also must be some incentive for the intermediaries to pass on your data. In the case of onion routing, the incentive is that other people's traffic serves as "noise" which your own traffic can "hide" in. In the case of Rapidshare et al, it's simply cash, through a combination of paid memberships and advertising revenue.

        Neither #1 nor #2 are encryption, really, though #2 may involve some.

        • by JesseMcDonald ( 536341 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @03:43PM (#27926667) Homepage

          Either this is done with something like onion routing, or sites like rapidshare are used as the intermediaries.

          These are completely different approaches. Both use "intermediaries", but nested encryption is inherent in onion routing (and similar protocols as used e.g. by I2P), and there is no need to trust those adjacent to you, since they never know who you're communicating with or what data you're transferring. A site like Rapidshare, on the other hand, can see the content being shared as well as the IP addresses of both the uploader and the downloaders, and is thus fully capable of betraying all those involved.

          There is also an additional incentive to participate in some onion-routing networks beyond the benefits of "background noise": the more bandwidth you make available to others, the better your own transfer rates become. (At least that's how I2P works.) It's rather similar to the incentive for seeding in BitTorrent itself.

    • by ionix5891 ( 1228718 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:24PM (#27923481)

      In Soviet France Freedom Fries youz?

      • by commodore64_love ( 1445365 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:30PM (#27923579) Journal

        I prefer "pommes frites". It sounds sexier.

        • I prefer "fried taters" said in a southwestern accent. It doesn't sound sexier, but it's got coolness.
          For sexy, I'd say "Give me your tots". Women really seem to strongly respond to that movie. You never get ignored when quoting Napoleon D. It's a really polarizing piece of film.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by MBGMorden ( 803437 )

          "Pommes frites" always confused me. From my high school French I learned that "pommes" means apples, and that potatoes was actually "pommes de terre", ie, apples of the earth, or ground-apples. That makes sense. "frites" essentially means fried.

          So "pomme frites" means "french fries" but literally translates to "fried apples". That's weird.

      • And this is why I wanna move down south and get sweet potato fries, cause the damn soviets would never eat those....

    • Really, I want to know. I know it's the "American Pasttime" but is the metaphor of "three strikes" even used there?

    • I think that Carla Bruni, Sarkozy's wife and model/singer, is the real author of the bill. In fact, the two first met at a official function where Bruni had come to promote copyright enforcement and authors' rights. IMO, Sarkozy is just acting out of love for his wife. The man is dangerous.

  • Sarkozy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Krneki ( 1192201 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:22PM (#27923435)
    I hope the Internet era will put a stop to this type of politicans.

    I can't wait to see how this thing blows in his face.
    • I can't wait to see how this thing blows in his face.

      Eeeeew! I can wait. Bleah.

    • The (mainstream) Internet Era has been around for some 15 years now and it hasn't yet.
      • by Krneki ( 1192201 )
        When the Internet was born I was there, hell I even saw his parents trying to connect us all.

        We just need to bring everyone online.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Opportunist ( 166417 )

          Erh... you have been watching where it leads to?

          Think back, if you can remember the "good ol' times". The internet was an exchange of information and idea, it was full of intelligent, witty people who connected and congreated to think up dreams that formed ideas which spun projects...

          Then came AOL and the people that came with it...

          Do I have to go on 'til we reach Web2.0?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:23PM (#27923443)

    With more and more gov services being available on the internet, does that mean that those disconnected won't be able to use said services?

    • That's right. The people disconnected will have to go check-in with their unemployment office in person. Everyone else will do it online.
      • You are aware that there's a lot of offices (apparently California in particular) that won't do anything in person, anymore? And with the EU being usually more socialist than anywhere in the US, I can't see that being reasonably different.

        • Sorry, just remembered, also, a majority of British unemployment offices are particularly bad for that, just to add to my point.

  • by berenixium ( 920883 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:23PM (#27923455) Journal
    After months of bullying and sneakiness, he finally got it through, and well done.

    But I won't feel much sympathy when the cut-off peasants storm his gates holding pitchforks, hot pokers and rope.
    • Re:Vive La Nation (Score:5, Interesting)

      by discord5 ( 798235 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:43PM (#27923761)

      But I won't feel much sympathy when the cut-off peasants storm his gates holding pitchforks, hot pokers and rope.

      Entertaining as the thought might be, both you and I know that this won't happen. The worst that will happen is another few cars getting lit up, which gives him another excuse to "get tough on crime".

      It might be interesting to note that in the UK a similar proposal [] is rearing its ugly head, and ISPs are "opposing" [] it, although ulterior motives are more likely to be the true reason, as found in the bottom of the article:

      He said that ISPs might be willing to consider a graduated response to tackling piracy if content providers were willing to pay distribution fees to ISPs.

      The rough translation of that sentence reads as "It's not really our problem, unless you pay us to make it our problem."

      I think the next couple of years are going to be interesting at the very least to see what our lawmakers are going to cook up to monitor our activities (if the whole ordeal doesn't get outsourced to the private sector), and more interesting will be the creative ways around those systems.

    • But I won't feel much sympathy when the cut-off peasants storm his gates holding pitchforks, hot pokers and rope.

      You mean old motherboards with pointy edges, unshielded power supplies and LAN cables?

  • tit for tat (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:24PM (#27923465)

    Don't you just wish that polititions were subject to three strikes too? Get caught three times in a lie, or claiming invalid expenses, or outright graft, and you get a life time ban on holding any political office ( or lobbying ), don't pass go, don't collect any of your pensions, just get the f*ck out of here.

    • Re:tit for tat (Score:5, Insightful)

      by twidarkling ( 1537077 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:35PM (#27923641)

      How about jail for incorrect expenses and graft 3 times. That's more than a mistake, that's fraud. Yet politicians get away with this shit way too often, regardless of country. Can anyone name a politician that was even *fired* for it, let alone charged? They're all allowed to resign, step down, or otherwise voluntarily leave office. I think that's wrong. Most jobs, you're caught pulling that stuff, you're escorted out of the building.

    • No . . . just one time should be enough.
    • YES!!!

      Then we wouldn't have any politicians.

      Sounds great actually, doesn't it?

    • Re:tit for tat (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CherniyVolk ( 513591 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @01:19PM (#27924327)

      I had a boss, who used to suggest with total seriousness that all politicians should be sent directly to jail after they serve their terms; without trial, without jury, straight from their table to their cell.

      I just laughed at this as though it's a joke. But he never showed a joking manner with his opinion. It was often haunting, but the more he insisted on a poker face when saying the more I thought about it.

      His claim is that all politicians are liars, and due to the gravity of their lies (in affecting the masses), their crimes have far reaching consequences and hence they should all go directly to jail after they serve for the rest of their lives.

      I used to say, 'but we would have no politicians then', to which he said 'good'.

      Funny though, he didn't seem to mind the man-behind-the-curtains, in the sense of the CEO of a locally publicly traded international business... who, he never voted for, nor even could identify by name or photo, having probably done more to influence his life than any politician has. For, the politicians he blames, were told what to do by Big Business.

      It's only in light of this perspective that I would agree with my boss. Not on grounds of them lying, but more on the grounds they are supposed to serve the people, and not the companies. Since their fibs are a result of Big Business, and they choose Corporate spoils over the People.

      I agree with my boss. They all should go directly to jail for not protecting the People.

  • France vs. EU (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DoofusOfDeath ( 636671 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:24PM (#27923471)

    So is this France's rejection of EU sovereignty in these matters?

    And if so, will consequences might France experience for rejecting an EU ruling?

    • Re:France vs. EU (Score:5, Insightful)

      by varcher ( 156670 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:36PM (#27923649)

      The consequences will be simple, and depends on how fast the Telecom pack legislation passes in Europe

      1) The Conseil Constitutionnel gets mandated to have a look at the law, and the Telecom pack is already there. It will throw the HADOEPI law back to the parliament as incompatible with the EU legislation, and hence invalid. And it's all much ado about nothing.

      2) The telecom pack gets delayed, and the law proceeds without major challenge (the selfsame Conseil might also invalidate the law as being incompatible with key elements of the french constitution itself, go to step 1). The telecom goes in force, and France gets X years to put his legislation back into conformance (i.e. geld the HADOEPI's extra-judicial powers) or face punitive damages.

      3) The Telecom pack gets brute forced AGAINST the wishes of the european parliament, which will simply demonstrate to all europeans that EU isn't a democratic institution, and needs bigger reforms than the last treaty, and the french presidential lobby is happy, and can wield a big ban stick to cover their abnormal business model based on luxury-levels professional content duplication (in an era where anyone can duplicate any content for less than an euro cent, paying any service to create a copy of a content for you is an economic aberration)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by MrMr ( 219533 )
      The EU parliament has reverted the proposal to the secret meetings where the first version was created. At the moment there is therefore no EU rule to reject, and everybody can make up legislation for the highest bidder as usual.
  • It's too bad (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Sarkozy was elected. Seems to be the worst thing to happen to France in a long time.

  • Sad. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tikkun ( 992269 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:25PM (#27923495) Homepage
    We've built a network designed to share information across vast distances very cheaply. This is a very good thing.

    Being able to share your movies with people across a continent the same way you would in your living room is a feature.
    Allowing people to share books with one another and learn from them is a feature.
    Letting people remix content from artists and share it with the world is a feature.

    Telling people they cannot speak, read, listen or watch because they're part of the future and not part of the past is a bug.
  • Without being able to read French or refer to the previous writeup, there's no way to know what this writeup is referring to. How about a little context with my stuff that matters?
  • by StillNeedMoreCoffee ( 123989 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:30PM (#27923581)

    I should imagine that some French Government organization will be caught downloading allegedly illegal content. Then, of course, the government will have to follow the letter of the law and cut off its own Internet Service. That should be fun to watch. Or, someone will get fired, internet service will not be suspended and they will reference Nixon's famous quote, about if they do it its not illegal, or they will reference Bush, who followed Nixon's fine example of little emperorism.

  • Not yet (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:32PM (#27923599)

    It has only passed the lower chamber. Now it has to be approved by the Senate with the exact same wording. In case a coma is changed, the assembly will have to debate, edit and vote again the law. Then it will have the pass the check of the constitutional council which could take down large chunks of the law. In other words, the battle is not over yet and the relief could come from Europe. Wait, fight, and see.

  • 3-strikes makes it a crime to break the law too many times.

    • But how many times?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Krneki ( 1192201 )
      Still it would be nice for a court to decide when you did the first one.
    • My point is that you're being punished twice. Once for the crime and again for doing it too many times.

      In California it's simple, you go back to the first violent felony you committed when counting for your three strikes. After that you can just count violent or serious felonies to add up to 3. The bar for the third strike is very low, you could commit non-violent grand theft(over $500 in CA) for your last crime.

      In my opinion California has a 2 to 2.5 strikes law.

  • We've all seen the cases where the big media companies have been caught using people's copyrighted content without permission. There's the case just recently where Sarkozy's own party got caught at it. So, if they want three-strikes, give it to them. If you see one of their political parties using your content without permission, report them. If you find one of the big media companies there using your content without permission, report them. And demand, loudly and publicly, that the law they were so bound a

  • Guys, (Score:4, Funny)

    by Coraon ( 1080675 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:37PM (#27923667)
    Start e-mailing links to copyrighted material and get the government's internet shutdown, and if they don't shut themselves off then start suing and having them charged with corruption until they force them to repeal their bill.
  • by durrr ( 1316311 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:38PM (#27923681)
    Okay so you lost internet. How many minutes does it take you to figure out that letters full of 16gb microSD cards actually have higher bandwidth than your connection? Quite abysmal ping though, but there's public acess points for the latency critical applications.
  • No one has explained the process in entirety, but it should be running through the legal system. I hate people suggesting to give ISP their own legal authority because they aren't interested in following the letters of the law. If it is running through the legal system, it will get so bogged down under the workload that they will have to suspend many of those cases for a very long time.
  • Or internet cafes will become REALLY popular places.

    as for granmas... since they like to click on all these "fix your computer" and "you won" stuff, (not to forget about grandchildren that would be happy to use granmas computer), it is just a matter of time till someone will bombard the France with trickery ads that will download some easily trackable music. Once more then some percentage of population (say 15-20% ?) will not be able use internet from homes, then or the ISPs will put a blind eye on it (they

  • Bot nets (Score:5, Interesting)

    by future assassin ( 639396 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:51PM (#27923871) Homepage
    So what would happen if someone used a bot net to get half of France banned from the internet.
    • So what would happen if someone used a bot net to get half of France banned from the internet.


  • Go Dark! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bob9113 ( 14996 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:51PM (#27923883) Homepage

    I am not a supporter of copyright infringement. I am, however, a passionate supporter of due process. If they will not abide by due process, disappear.

    Start building your darknet, today. []

    Don't use it for copyright infringement, that would be illegal. But use it to make everything you do on the Internet much harder to detect. If they are going to use our openness against us, we must stop being open.

    It's a little hard to set up a darknet right now, but it will get better if we all work together. Now go forth and start the hard work of remaining free.

  • Easy solution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Thaelon ( 250687 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @12:57PM (#27923971)

    There's an easy solution to this.

    Disconnect France from the internet until they stop this nonsense.

  • So,

    How long do you think it will be before someone figures out a way to use/fake Sarkozy's IP addresses (or all government IP's?) for obviously illegal P2P and get them knocked off the net?

  • by jabjoe ( 1042100 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @02:17PM (#27925203)

    I guess this means French file sharers will be moving to anonymous p2p programs like FreeNet, GnuNet, etc and darknets. This is silly, bring it all out in the open, money can be made if the price is low and service good, for example No rubbish about the artists will be cheated, they are badly cheated in the existing system:

    Trent Reznor : "One of the biggest wake-up calls of my career was when I saw a record contract. I said, 'Wait - you sell it for $18.98 and I make 80 cents? And I have to pay you back the money you lent me to make it and then you own it? Who the f**k made that rule? Oh! The record labels made it because artists are dumb and they'll sign anything'

    Lets make a new system and pay the artists the lion share and let them own their music. Where an artists work can be got from multiple competing vendors. The artists and their fans is the more important thing. These fat middle men need to go on a slimfast diet and get the hell out the way. As for TV, Mark Pesce told the world that in 2005 []. Movies the same, plus we are still going to go to the cinema.

    There are many ways this could work, but the world has changed and law makers legal world offers a tiny fraction of what this new world has to offer. Are they just too old fashioned? Still struggling with email let alone file sharing and hooking up the TV with the computer...

  • Ha ha ha! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Hurricane78 ( 562437 ) <deleted@slashdot ... minus physicist> on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @03:21PM (#27926253)

    And funnily, as I said before [], the first one to actually lose his first strike, was Sarkozy himself: []

    I also proposed how to make him take his medicine own the two other times too. ^^

  • by gwait ( 179005 ) on Tuesday May 12, 2009 @08:42PM (#27931243)

    Oh great, some smartass with a botnet could get all of France banned from the internet..

"I prefer the blunted cudgels of the followers of the Serpent God." -- Sean Doran the Younger