You Are Not a Lawyer

Paul Ohm is starting a new "very occasional" feature on the Freedom To Tinker blog called You Are Not a Lawyer — "In this series, I will try to disabuse computer scientists and other technically minded people of some commonly held misconceptions about the law (and the legal system)." In the first installment, Ohm walks through the reasons why many techies' faith in the presence of "reasonable doubt" is so misplaced. "When techies think about criminal law, and in particular crimes committed online, they tend to fixate on [the 'beyond a reasonable doubt'] legal standard, dreaming up ways people can use technology to inject doubt into the evidence to avoid being convicted. I can't count how many conversations I have had with techies about things like the 'open wireless access point defense,' the 'trojaned computer defense,' the 'NAT-ted firewall defense,' and the 'dynamic IP address defense.' ... People who place stock in these theories and tools are neglecting an important drawback. There are another set of legal standards — the legal standards governing search and seizure — you should worry about long before you ever get to 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'"

Ohm's Law?

[loshwomp]

Sounds like the piece should be called "Ohm's Law".

Pfft, lawyers

[Rogerborg]

Difference between them and us?

• Techie: If you don't know how to do what I do, then learn.
• Lawyer: If you don't know how to do what I do, pay me $500 an hour or your children will die penniless in the gutter.

IPBIC*

[paiute]

IANAL
YANAL

then who the hell is a lawyer?
TWTHIAL?

WWJD?
JWRTFM!

*I post because I care

YANAL

[shma]

Y not?

Is Paul Ohm a Lawyer?

[Anonymous Coward]

It sure does not sound like this guy is much of a lawyer based on that craptacular display of writing. He does not seem to back up any of his arguments with things a lawyer usually includes in a law article such as citations, jurisprudence, and you know, actual evidence.

I guess law school + blog = expert

Oh praise ...whatever!

[Samschnooks]

I can't wait until he goes into Civil Torts and IP law especially about the GPL - I hope. I really hate it when I have a question and some IANAL chimes in with an opinion and says that "it's right there in the GPL in black and white" and how can I be so stupid as to not understand it! But yet, folks get into trouble with it all the time without any intent on malice. The GPL is all legalese that I don't understand and therefore, I will not use it or software under it for commercial use without advice from an IP attorney and since I can't afford one, I will not use the GPL.

I guess I'm too stupid to use GPL software.

Re:Ohm's Law?

[lastchance_000]

I'll start a feature called "You are not a techie."

My first entry? Make sure your webserver/webhost is up to snuff before letting /. loose on it.

Re:Reasonable Doubt.

[elrous0]

At least people expect the cops to break down your door in the U.S. Nobody expects the...

Oh, forget it.

Re:Ohm's Law?

[Sponge Bath]

Years ago I saw a US Air Force training document refer to "Ohm's Three Laws".
V=IR, I=V/R, and R=V/I. :P

Re:Ohm's Law?

[FalseModesty]

(2) Academic lawyers generally have a slanted view on the world

As opposed to ACs?

Well, at least if you are not a lawyer . . .

[PolygamousRanchKid]

. . . you won't be among the first against the wall when The Revolution comes.

Hard skills, like hacking Perl scripts to keep The Leader supplied with porn, will trump soft skills, like litigating about microwaving poodles.

Beware . . . it IS coming . . .

I'm not?

[iamangry]

Hmm, yeah, I guess I forgot I wasn't a lawyer. I'm glad I have /. to keep track of these sorts of things for me. Thanks ./ !

Re:Legal standards of search and seizure

[FalseModesty]

I never got in trouble as a kid. but then I was aware of my location and had a scanner in my pocket with a earphone in all the time.

Wow. Just seriously paranoid, or did you commit lots of crimes?

Re:LEARN

[metamechanical]

Yes, people do have to use an ounce of cation online.

I prefer to use an ounce of anion, but I guess I'm just a negative kind of guy.

Re:Pfft, lawyers

[JustinOpinion]

Problem is IT guys are whores. we give up our craft for free at the drop of a hat.

Whores don't give anything away for free. Sluts do.

Techies are sluts. Lawyers are whores. Personally I prefer sluts to whores, but YMMV.

Re:Ohm's Law?

[3dr]

I think he's going to get a lot of resistance fighting the current of Techie Law Knowledge.

Re:IPBIC*

[fan777]

Jesus would ride the fucking motorcycle?

That doesn't make any sense.

Re:Legal standards of search and seizure

[Paracelcus]

Encrypt everything, hide everything, obfuscate everything, always assume that THEY are out to get you. Keep your bags packed at an alternate (undisclosed) location, keep some cash hidden and have an extra passport ready (always lose the first one they send you) in case they confiscate your first. Always pay cash, wear a broad brimmed hat and large dark glasses in public, grow a beard (you can quickly change you appearance by shaving). Use anonymous pay as you go cellphones or be careful what you say over the phone, keep your phone turned off and the battery removed.

  Remember it ain't paranoia if they really are out to get you!

Re:Legal standards of search and seizure

[Lumpy]

Friends that got nailed a LOT and watched their pain. Also I had a brother that got nailed and was ground up through the system.

when you see it happen and pay attention, you know what happens and what to do to stay away from it. I also was a big protester in college.. I was never arrested because I would not be stupid and dress like the others protesting. I always looked like a innocent bystander on purpose..

Once when asked by a cop why I was holding a sign I said, "some cute chick over there gave it to me, I dont want to drop it and litter" He took the sign as a favor to me.

Re:Ohm's Law?

[Anonymous Coward]

You think that's bad - My parents are worse.

I mean, with the last name Coward, who in the hell names their kid Anonymous?!?

Re:Wow! Who ever would have guessed that!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind your fucking Venn diagrams.

!?

*squints his eyes*

You just made a powerful enemy.

Re:Ohm's Law?

[Roger W Moore]

A couple of considerations...

Here is one more:
(4) If you are not in the US, US law does not apply.

Re:Totally off topic now but what the hell

[digitig]

Two of the Roman Catholic priests in the town I used to live in were Father John Lennon and Father Michael Jackson. To their credit, they never did put on the seemingly inevetable and ultimately disappointing fundraising concert double-bill.

XKCD

[Rei]

As always, XKCD has already covered this [xkcd.com]. ;)

Re:Wow! Who ever would have guessed that!?

[Sj0]

PROTIP: Memorizing Latin phrases doesn't actually mean you didn't manage to completely miss the point of the post by quoting the example of his point, then reiterating the point he was trying to make.

Re:You fell victim to one of the classic blunders

[russotto]

Smart people make mistakes too. More often in areas where they lack expertise. Even though in an abstract way you know all these things, in practice, they elude many people who really ought to know better. Just ask Hans Reiser how well his cunning plan worked out in practice.

Hans's plan:
1) Kill wife
2) Hide body where cops can't find it
3) Throw up smokescreen in court
4) Don't testify at trial in such a way that makes me look like a murdering loon.

You'd have thought 1, 2 and 3 were the hard ones, but sometimes the simplest things trip you up...

Re:XKCD

[DrgnDancer]

It's a really big wrench

Other series for geeks

[TheSync]

1) "You are not an economist"
2) "You are not a political scientist or expert in public choice theory"
3) "You are not a businessperson"
4) "You are not a pick-up artist"

Re:Ohm's Law?

[Repton]

But what about Ohm's Fourth Law, V/IR=1?