Canadian NDP Leader Praises P2P Communities 169
newtley writes "The New Democrats' Jack Layton has become the first leader of a major Canadian political party to acknowledge the importance of the Internet during a federal election. He's using YouTube to carry his message specifically to the online community, launching it on P2Pnet. 'We don't want to see hidden fees and gouging and service slow-downs all in the interests of promoting the objectives of certain large corporations,' Layton says."
Other party members have also spoken out against increased internet regulation. We've been following the Canadian net neutrality debate for quite some time.
Wrong Tag (Score:4, Funny)
Need to include ' its a trap'..
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It is a trap and not a joke. The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office. Provinces like Saskatchewan have 11 billion dollars in debt. While that many not sound like much, they have less than 1 million people to support it. They love credit spending like no other.
Most experienced Canadians know NDP as socialists. Nationalization is a key plug of theirs.
Laytoon would say anything to get elected be he mean it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian cand
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That's about $10000 per person, much less than the U.S.
Traditionally, democrats/left-ish governments spend less while taking in more, thus reducing the debts, while right-wing capitalist governments tend to spend more. (what they don't spend on health care they spend on prisons and "national security")
Re:Wrong Tag (Score:5, Informative)
Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).
What the USA calls "right-wing" may not act like it at all, but in Canada generally fiscal conservatism means such, because we have an actual example of such that happened, not just theory like down south.
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They might have gotten rid of the monetary debt, but by how much did they damage their environment ? What would have happened to the debt if they would not have had Harper get rid of kyoto ?
Exploiting their petroleum sand like this, with almost no regulations, got them tons of money. Any other responsible governement should not have allowed that to go through.
Re:Wrong Tag (Score:4, Informative)
Oh yea, the Alberta Conservatives were, in their great, millions of years spanning foresight, entirely responsible for putting all that oil in all that sand in Alberta and then for driving global oil prices through the roof only so that they can rake in billions in royalties ... no?
But then again this is, and has always been, on par for the so-called "Conservatives" world-wide: take with great fanfare all credit for things you had absolutely nothing to do with, while at the same time trying to project blame for everything you've fucked up onto others.
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Try BC then. The BC Liberal party (made up entirely of former social credit conservatives) inherited a province from the NDP that was doing poorly economically yet managed to both put the economy back on track and balance the budget.
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Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).
I know a few people who live in Alberta, from what they tell me, this wasn't some Conservative 'just as planned...' scheme. [How could the have predicted the jump in oil prices?] This was pure blind luck. Alberta was spending too much money a while back, and needed some major cutbacks to be made so that the province wasn't digging itself into a hole. As the years went on after these cutbacks, the increasing price in oil kick started the Albertan economy into high-gear.
Re:Wrong Tag (Score:4, Informative)
Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).
All Alberta did was elect two successive by the people representatives as our leaders. Yes, I live in Alberta. Neither Klein nor successor Stelmach are professional politicians, both came from the working class from their successful stints in real careers. That is, they are not in-the-pocket of vested interests behind the scenes. When Klein got in, he spent the first 6 months on a hack and burn of government waste and excess. Civil service people still scream at this government overhaul event as the provincial debt was increasing.
Alberta voters tend to be smarter and avoided the liberal left promise of stars, spending and statist government at our, taxpayers expense. People here know when a candidate promises something they intuitively think, how is it going to be paid for?
While some say it is oil, they are over stating the facts. Klein did this before oil was lucrative and only $20/barrel and the industry was barely hanging on. And in lucrative times, the government piggy banked the increased revenue money which reduces taxes in a sound sustainable way.
It does not take long to turn around a out of control government, just a decent, honest, practical politician with lots of power that isn't doing the job for self ego. Even on Klein's last days, he would sit down with normal people and say hello.
What the USA calls "right-wing" may not act like it at all, but in Canada generally fiscal conservatism means such, because we have an actual example of such that happened, not just theory like down south.
We will see in the next few weeks. Canada's currency took a wild dip as the government is ailing out the banks too. Fiat currency management is on both sides of the border, they are not overlooking the Bank of Canada's propensity to create fiat money.
Re:Wrong Tag (Score:5, Funny)
It's not polite to refer to King Ralph as a monkey, even if drunk.
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Alberta is a fucked up case. It's another Sydney, Nova Scotia in the making. We're getting fucked.
We could have all those young people working building renewable energy structures, like hydro projects and tidal power generation. Instead, they're selling out our future to keep the American demand for oil slaked. They're dumping money into a highly overinflated housing market, going into ridiculous levels of debt, and long before they're ready to retire, the place will be a dead town, with no industry to
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Actually, I think tidal power generation projects in Alberta would definitely be a bigger mistake.
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Well, given the history of Alberta's deficits and debt, I'd have to say that, no, we had sober monkeys run us into the ground in the first place. It may have required some drunkenness to get us out.
And Klein did that *before* oil hit $80 a barrel. It required fiscal conservatism, and, oddly enough, not only did Klein run on a platform of erasing the debt, he actually fulfilled all his major promises (and most of his minor promises). Not too many Canadian governments have done that (Conservative or Libera
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$11 Billion divided among 1 Million people is more like $11,000 per person.
The example he is using is for the debt created in one province by a provincial political party. The equivalent of the debt of a state in the U.S. - is it really common in the U.S. to see state debt at $11,000/person?
The left of center governments in Canada typically create huge debt while the right of center governments create smaller debt. The previous left of center federal government (known as the "Liberals") ran up a huge d
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Growing up, my examples of "right wing" financial dealing involved Brian Mulroney as Prime Minister and Grant Devine as Premier of Saskatchewan.
Both of them left their respective governments deep in debt. It was the Liberals who came in and stopped the debt from ballooning out of control in Canada. And it is the current minority Conservative government that has started running deficits again.
Provincially, Devine left Saskatchewan in a ridiculous pile of debt. The "left wing" NDP party came in and straigh
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Growing up, my examples of "right wing" financial dealing involved Brian Mulroney as Prime Minister and Grant Devine as Premier of Saskatchewan. Both of them left their respective governments deep in debt. It was the Liberals who came in and stopped the debt from ballooning out of control in Canada.
You should have looked to provinces further West where the story was the opposite - left wing governments running up huge debt and right wing governments getting it under control. For example BC where the gros
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A quick note about US debt and Canadian debt that once accounted for show a very similar amount of debt per capita. In fact, considering provincial debt in Ontario and Quebec as part of a total debt load many Canadians are at least as hit by government debt. Here are the items.
The US accounts for projected shortfalls in Social Security as debt with a an entry on the books for it. Canada does not include this in their debt situation. While Canada does actually have a CPP reserve, it is short. Last I co
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Oh please. The liberals ran up huge deficits and only started addressing the issue when public sentiment forced it. Yes - they did indeed then start running huge surpluses - not hard to do when you overestimate costs, overtax the populace to cover the predicted costs and then declare a surplus when the costs don't materialize. A surplus means people paid too much tax.
To quote the article you reference: Canada posted a record budget surplus of C$13.8bn last year, allowing Ottawa to reduce its debt ratio t
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Well your statements are incorrect about the Alberta and British Columbia governments at the very least. They may be wrong about other provincial governments as well - I don't know as I don't have the facts handy but since you are wrong at least twice I'll safely assume I shouldn't trust you to be right in the case of the others.
And while I was no fan of the Mulroney Conservative government it was the Liberals who ran the debt to GDP ratio up to its historical high - years after the Conservatives left powe
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its a north american thing apparently (Score:2)
entire europe is on social democracy, and it already got past north america in terms of economy and life standard, - hell, in every aspect of life.
get this shit into your head -> in life EVERYthing needs BALANCE. without balance, everything flops. economy is not exempt from this basic rule.
'socialism boooooooooo' 'nationalization booooooooo' 'government intervention booooooooooo'
please, its 2008
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look pal, youre the only continent that is stuck with that mccarthian scarecrowing shit about left.
Ah, managed to get a NDiaPer to wake up.
entire europe is on social democracy, and it already got past north america in terms of economy and life standard, - hell, in every aspect of life.
Then you should move there. When I lived/worked in Europe the pay for the locals, well, wasn't good. And taxes, whew....great cultural place to visit but no want to live there unless I was filthy rich.
get this shit into your head -> in life EVERYthing needs BALANCE. without balance, everything flops. economy is not exempt from this basic rule.
Yes, everything needs a balance. It is also why the NDP are out of balance. They have great talk, lovely ideas, promise the moon. And it works great until the credit card comes past due. The balance for an NDP is credit runs out.
'socialism boooooooooo' 'nationalization booooooooo' 'government intervention booooooooooo'
I agree, all are bad in the above.
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yea yea (Score:2)
fuck your individualism. you are NOT an individual, you are a member of a SOCIETY. if you want to be an individual, go to a fucking mountain and feed yourself there.
as long as you live and enjoy the benefits of being in the society thing we humans invented, you are going to fucking stick by the rules, bridle your greed, and c
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The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office.
Of course, Gary Doer [wikipedia.org] in Manitoba has had a balanced budget every year for the last decade, as well as creating a rainy-day fund of hundreds of millions, but don't let that stop you from making black and white statements.
Laytoon[sic] would say anything to get elected [whether] he mean[t] it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian candidates lie often.
AFAICT, that's par for the course in Canada, the US, and the UK, and I suspect pretty much every other democracy. The Liberals did fairly well during the election a few years ago in part due to Sheila Copps promising to do away with the GST, and we all know how well that turned out. The Co
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Absolutely true. I would also offer up the example of the BC NDP party, and the unbelievably poor state in which they left this province. The NDP are fundamentally corrupt because of their close ties to the trade unions.
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You're extending a generality into a specific case, which isn't necessarily how they'd do it. They could implement, say, a DMCA-style approach to this sort of thing.
I agree that they should be more specific, but let's not make straw men.
Brain? (Score:2, Funny)
Strewth! A politician with a brain? Somebody vote for him, please!
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I have to admit I am no political guru but when you look at a party who actually has plans, advocates them well, has a leader who communicates fluently and can debate smartly I wonder why these guys haven't had better numbers. I suppose it is because Jack Layton doesn't attack the other parties in the media like the other leaders so the majority of voters seems to overlook them. He is simply not in the press shouting about a past scandal or taxes.
Honestly out of the three 'maj
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OMG - get your tv fixed! It's filtering out all those NDP ads attacking other parties! It must have also filtered out the televised debates where the NDP leader was attacking the Conservative leader!
The funny thing is that watching the debates the only leader who looked like a real competitor to Mr. Harper was Mr. Duceppe, who was passionate and obviously intelligent. It's too bad his party is based on breaking up Canada into two independent countries.
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I don't know... remembering past elections, the NDP seems to actually be taking this one seriously. I don't actually remember a federal election in which the NDP sounded so good since Ed Broadbent.
It's particularly impressive when you consider that the Conservatives are basically running on a platform of "hey, we're evil, but the Liberals are incompetent, so who ya gonna vote for?"
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Most of his plans are completely idealistic and borderline delusional.
I don't know about that - although I haven't read anything in-depth, the cursory readings seem OK. Can you provide some examples?
The leader is also a scummy politician.
On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)
Examples: The last election was triggered when the NDP (led by Layton) voted non-confidence against a Liberal finance bill. The election happened over the holid
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We don't have a great choice of leaders at all in this election:
Harper: uncharismatic, suspiciously socially conservative
Elizabeth May: an American(!) and devout Christian
Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out
Layton: commented that Punjabi should be made Canada's third official language - enough said
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Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out
This is the problem I have with Canadians. The Chretien Liberals were definitely corrupt, and definitely needed a time-out. So what did we, the Canadian people, do to punish them for their corruption? We inflicted Stephen Harper on ourselves -- not to mention such gems as Stockwell Day, Jason Kenney, and Maxime Bernier (at least he's out of the picture now).
Today's Liberal party is mostly devoid of the people who were involved in the Sponsorship scandal. Sure, Dion seems a little weak, but have you seen Ste
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And you make it sound as if Canada was on the verge of destruction when Stephen Harper came along and magically turned everything to gold with his impotent minority government.
The truth is, Canada was in great shape before the Conservatives came to power, and it will remain in great shape no matter who wins this election. The Conservatives are dangerously wrong on far too many issues to allow them to maintain the little power they have, or worse yet, to actually gain more power through a majority government
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Oh please - the French press didn't crucify Joe Clark for his lousy French? Even the English papers typically prefaced any mention of his French with "awkward" or "clumsy". And Dion doesn't appear all that bright to me - his "Green Shift" is a ridiculous policy - and in a widely distributed clip of his appearance on ATV, he didn't understand
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On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)
Sociopath? Maybe... he does kind of make my skin crawl when I watch him speak... there's definitely something off about about him.
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Layton i
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Oh, please
Please what? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying here. You seem to think I disagree with you somehow.
Don't you see Layton's TV ads where he claims he will hire 1,000 doctors?
No, all I've seen are his attack ads against Harper. But yes, that does seem pretty far-fetched.
The Tories have a much more practical plan. They will make it easier for foreign professionals to have their credentials recognized.
What does the Tory plan have to do with NDP? (Besides the fact that they've been in power for two years, and haven't actually implemented anything.)
Layton is not a good person
Yeah, that's why I used the term sociopath to describe him.
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Again with the co-op smear. The way a housing co-op works is high income residents pay much higher rent so that low income residents don't have to pay as much. That way, it doesn't have to be subsidized by government at all. Either you don't understand how a housing co-op works or don't care. This smear was discredited more than a decade ago. When raised now it just illustrates the ignorance of the person who is repeating it.
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New Democrats? (Score:3, Informative)
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Haven't you ever seen a TV ad with Jack Layton?
He generally finishes up his little talks with "Vote for Change, Vote for the New Democrats"
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I too am a long-time liberal (but just because we have a liberal MP and MPPs) and love Jack Layton.
I don't like the NDP (sorry, too socialist for me) but he is an honest, hard-working man. I never liked him before because during the debates in the last elections he was constantly going on "Oh vote NDP we're different we're better!" etc. While watching the french debates (I was planning on watching Joe Biden beat up Palin) though he changed for the better; although he's no Duceppe in terms of slamming everyo
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He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.
I guess "fellow man" is anyone in Canada who lives outside of Alberta.
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Re:Jack Layton (Score:4, Informative)
Bollocks. He lived in a mixed income co-operative housing unit that uses the higher rent charged to high-income earners to subsidize the costs of the lower-income units. It was not government subsidized housing. In fact, the housing unit would have failed financially if there were no higher income earners living there. You clearly have no understanding of how mixed incoming cooperative housing actually works, or you're just trying to toss an already much-discredited 15 year old smear with no basis in reality.
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No, it isn't, and even if it was, that's not justification.
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He is a very sincere and genuine leader who I would really love to lead our country.
It's too bad though that his party's platform is so far out in left field that it scares me. Some good ideas in there, such as their technology platform in general. But their protectionist policies would pretty much destroy our economy, including lending support (using my tax dollars) to unsustainable and uneconomical jobs for Canadian autoworkers, ending the North American Free Trade Agreement, and generally throwing money
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He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and wants to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.
Jack is nothing more than a walking soundbite. I lost any respect I had for him last election when he made a big show of handing a coin to a pan handler. As someone who has actually worked with street people I can tell you that the absolute worst thing you can do for them is give them money.
And if he really was about solving conflicts he would not be so eager to accuse his opponents of "hidden agenda
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The economy would have done well with or without him
As evidenced by the fact that it's clear, particularly after the debate, that his economic policies are to just let things kinda tick along and let whatever happens happen.
I agree about May, though. I think she was one of the best performing politicians in the debate (specifically the English language debate, which is the one I watched). Layton, by contrast, spent the entire time doing his best to paint Harper as the spawn of the devil, and neglected to
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As evidenced by the fact that it's clear, particularly after the debate, that his economic policies are to just let things kinda tick along and let whatever happens happen.
Part of letting things tick along is letting the Bank Of Canada do its job the way it is intended to do - such as putting out a 0.5% drop in the bank rate which was coordinated with the equivalent entities in other countries doing the same.
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Not a chance - she was rude, hectoring, and constantly interrupting Harper. Harper, in contrast, was polite, and calm. I thought the purpose of a debate was to give one person the right to speak at any time, and since I was on my debating team at high school, I know whereof I speak. The three wannabes were all terrible. Duceppe actually impressed me; it's too bad he wants to break up the country.
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Not a chance - she was rude, hectoring, and constantly interrupting Harper.
Yeah, I agree. But IMHO, she also came across as informed and educated. She was one of the few that actually cited numbers and real evidence, both when attacking her opponents and supporting her own positions.
Then again, in that group, that's really damning with faint praise...
In contrast, while Harper certainly came across as calm, I also thought he came across as superficial... he had a tough time defending his non-interventioni
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Yeah... in the end, she basically said "no", but I suspect that's not what her base actually wants to hear.
It's no different than the debate moderator (who's name escapes me) asking Harper if he'd vow to never raise taxes. Harper dilly-dallied over that question and never really answered it because, guess what, he *can't* say "yes", even if his electorate wants him to.
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Strange that you get this from Dion. I would think this description applies more to Layton, and Googlefight [googlefight.com] agrees.
http://election.globaltv.com/topstorydetail.aspx?sectionid=223&postid=49412 [globaltv.com]
Bush third term? Blatant Obama ripoff. Never mind that the GOP considers Canadian conservatives to be too liberal for their taste.
Well first off as it's presented it's
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For those of you with short memories, the last time that the NDP had any real power (at least in Ontario) was with Bob Ray and they ran the province into the ground.
Don't be fooled by a party full of idiots that happen to have the correct viewpoint on one issue. The last thing that Canada needs is the NDP in charge.
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I started doing some real research. And I have to say, he is the first politician (at that level) I've actually admired.
Then either your research is poor, or you're easily swayed by emotion rather than logic.
He speaks with a level of candor and immense credibility that is so rare.
Credibility?!?! OK, you really haven't done any research. He's prone to hyperbole ("Harper wants to quit his job as PM") and can't accept responsibility for his own actions. ("It's not my fault - the Liberals *made* me do it!")
want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.
Oh, come on. All he's ever done is fan the flames!
puke (Score:2)
Generally speaking any party that has words 'democratic' or 'national' or 'communist' or 'socialist' is puke to me, I was born in the former Soviet Ukraine.
Specifically it looks extremely ridiculous to me that a person who has never had a real job except of being a career politician (from a family of career politicians no less) talks about the underprivileged and the poor of the society. Layton is against a 2tiered health care system yet he used private health care himself.
Layton is a snake who speaks what
Video Professor Look-a-Like (Score:1)
What's with the P2Pnet logo? (Score:2, Funny)
How Ironic (Score:1, Flamebait)
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Regulation (Score:2, Informative)
That's goo, but I'd never vote NDP (Score:5, Insightful)
They're just to left-wing wacky on too many issues to be in power. I like them as a solid opposition though, they keep things relatively honest.
I've been voting Conservative since I started making good money.....but their copyright stance is just stupid and American. I may vote Green this time.
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http://www.greenparty.ca/en/lp/foreign_policy/intro
What's bad about that? Honestly, I'd like to know the downsides.
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What's bad about that?
Come on, they didn't *once* use the phrase "support our troops" - they're clearly freedom-hating communist-loving terrists!
Populist measures of NDP (Score:2, Interesting)
The NDP is pretty tech savvy usually. They have two other platform points that are interesting, although populist:
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And the reason we're not having a mortgage crisis is most people still get their mortgages from the banks, who expect to be repaid. In the US, the creation of CDO's spurred the gr
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Yeah but how much of that $131 billion that Citi has is part of the bad mortgage scheme that happened? Could it be that they're overstating their revenues using fancy pants accounting?
Of Course Layton likes P2P! (Score:2)
Layton's platform would kill so many jobs ...
Raising corporate taxes from 22% up to 30% as we get sucked into the US made financial crisis would make us so uncompetitive. He promises to do this to raise money for his child benefit plan. But we won't need his child care plan, we'll be stuck at home all day with the kids without jobs.
Layton was doing well in the polls (for the NDP) ... right up to the day the official NDP platform was released and Canadians let out a collective WTFOMGRUN !!!
Layton has to sup
Jack Layton talks a big talk, but can he walk ? (Score:2)
The thing I'm finding with Layton's NDP is they're saying a lot of things that make sense, things that would benefit society at large, but they are the ONLY ones making such promises. This begs the question of how are they going to make it all happen ? The answer is: they aren't.
I don't think anyone is remotely concerned about the NDP winning the federal election. The NDP excels as being the 3rd wheel in minority governments, as they proved back in the Trudeau years. For that reason, it is highly unlike
Jack would be a good Leader of the Opposition (Score:2)
Wins my vote (Score:2)
Full disclosure, I was heavily leaning toward voting NDP anyway, but this has won me over. While there's a little bit of me that considers that this may just be pandering, I think Jack Layton would make a great leader, I agree with just about all of their policies, and I think that they tap into what most Canadians want from their government.
If you saw the debate a while back, it was pretty much Harper attacking and everyone else attacking back, but Layton seemed to have the most concrete plans and platfor
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I'm likely voting NDP not because I want them to form a government, but because I want them to be the opposition.
The opposition is there to hold the government accountable for its actions, and sadly, the Liberals have done a terrible job of that lately.
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And let's not talk about what Mike Harris actually did to this province. My brain has still blocked that particular memory to protect itself.
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The problem with Mike Harris was that he was trying to be Ralph Klein, but without the drinking. Everybody knows you can't be King Ralph without the drinking!
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Right now we have a government doing a lot a business with a country that isn't doing well and what do we get? Nothing but a sinking dollar, the US is a sinking ship and we keep investing towards them. If the Conversative government had balls it would be making Canada more of a po
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Re:Green Party was the first to support open sourc (Score:2)
Anyone who has been sucked into the Conservative fear-mongering lies about the Liberal Carbon tax will run away fast from the Green Party. The plans are essentially identical.
Re:Slashdot shouldn't post partisan press releases (Score:2)
Wow man, what have you been 'Puffin'?