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Caldera Government The Courts News Technology

Grokking SCO's Demise 242

An anonymous reader writes "You have already heard the news that the SCO Group's US$5 billion threat against Linux is effectively finished. It was the Web site that broke the news and posted the complete 102-page ruling; after that, it was picked up by mainstream media and trade press. In fact, it's Groklaw that has covered every aspect of SCO's legal fights with Linux vendors IBM , Novell and Red Hat and Linux users Daimler Chrysler and AutoZone ever since paralegal Pamela Jones started the site as a hobby in 2003. This feature does a great job of chronicling Groklaws' hand in the demise of SCO's case."
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Grokking SCO's Demise

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  • Groklaw (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jhines ( 82154 ) <> on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:05PM (#24647439) Homepage

    Groklaw is the best thing to come out of SCO's mess. Thanks PJ.

  • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:10PM (#24647519) Journal

    I don't think that was what this was all about at all. There's enough peculiar connections to Microsoft, plus shades of pump and dump, to make me suspicious that this whole thing was orchestrated as FUD against Linux. Sure SCO must have been upset that it was being relegated to a few legacy POS applications. We'll probably never know the whole truth, but this has all the hallmarks of a deliberate attempt to destroy Linux's legitimacy.

  • eh (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:12PM (#24647557)
    I met Pamela Jones a few years ago. She makes Cowboy Neal look like a fitness freak. Last I heard, she doesn't use Linux, though.
  • by scribblej ( 195445 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:12PM (#24647563)

    From the article:

    Did Groklaw really have an impact on those court cases? Naaah.

    I love Groklaw as much as the next guy, but this article is truly worthless; it just reads as worthless praise for groklaw without even so much as a particular.

  • by Tolvor ( 579446 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:19PM (#24647637)

    Groklaw was certainly informative, and it is nice to see major media give a nod of thanks to an internet site that had done their research. What I wonder is where is Groklaw to grok next?

    I'd vote for Groking RIAA, big time.

    Grok IP law and squelch that mess once and for all.

    And since it the season, groking certain political parties (or all of them) would be nice.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:22PM (#24647675)

    Exactly how is this the power of open source? Looks to me more like the power of high priced corporate attorneys.

  • by hardburn ( 141468 ) <hardburn&wumpus-cave,net> on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:27PM (#24647759)

    Because it's perfectly possible to come to the correct conclusion even while being intellectually dishonest.

  • It is kinda like how people say "we won" when their favorite sports teams win.

  • by oyenstikker ( 536040 ) <> on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:31PM (#24647813) Homepage Journal

    Now, they're painted with 98 shades of evil. . .

    Everybody who thought they were evil beforehand still does. Everybody who loved them beforehand still does. Everybody who did not have a clue beforehand still does not.

    No PHB is going to avoid Microsoft products because of this.

  • by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:31PM (#24647817) Journal

    Thing is, I believe that SCO knew it was doomed from the start, but did it anyway.

    McBride still made millions of bucks off of the deal, as did most of SCO's principals. Unless/Until there's criminal proceedings for SEC violations, they probably don't care, and are only making noises for long enough to provide plausible deniability. In short - they got their dough, and they probably don't care what happens to SCO from this point on.

    SCO lasted five years longer than it probably would have if it had simply died quietly as Yet Another Dot-Bust Carcass.

    Finally, most corps know nowadays that getting into bed with MSFT is a sure recipe for disaster. PlaysForSure, HD-DVD, Windows Defender, OS/2, and numerous other smaller examples are proof-positive of just how badly you get burned in any partnership with MSFT... unless of course you're Microsoft. I think only NBC has managed to not get raped in a MSFT partnership (and even then, only because of NBC's vastly different market segments).

    As for Sun? I think they simply got caught in the crossfire. They were looking to license SVR permanently so that they could protect (and eventually open-source) Solaris. Otherwise, they were (and are) hating life anyway, as market dynamics dictate that buying pricey Sparc-based servers is kinda stupid for most applications.


  • Re:Interesting?! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by multisync ( 218450 ) * on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:38PM (#24647943) Journal

    The only way this drivel is "interesting" is if you're observing the posting habits of bitter, spite-driven, FSF worshiping Zealots.

    It isn't the "spite-driven, FSF worshiping Zealots" who sound bitter, my anonymous friend.

  • Re:Groklaw (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LehiNephi ( 695428 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:38PM (#24647947) Journal
    While SCO's demise brings a smile to the faces of nearly all of us, I would argue that the impact of Groklaw will far outlive the SCO vs. Linux cases. Groklaw has also brought to light (and made easily accessible and searchable) the flaws in the OOXML comedy, the testing of open source licenses, and some of the intricacies of the piracy and DRM debates. SCO is done, but Groklaw will continue to provide a valuable service, hopefully for years to come. Yes, Thanks, PJ.
  • by LarsG ( 31008 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:40PM (#24647963) Journal

    Oh, please...

    It is perfectly possible to be both correct and partisan noisy at the same time.

  • They have confused reasoned opinion with bias. Our mass media has decided that being unbiased means not favoring one side. This is wrong, of course; if the facts overwhelmingly favor one side, it would be dishonest not to report that fact. Unfortunately, it's easier just to take one press release from each side of a dispute and report both, without making an effort to determine which side is full of liars.

    And anyone who does call a liar a liar is called "partisan". It's pathetic.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18, 2008 @01:55PM (#24648251)

    I think what he's saying is just that Linux people had a stake in what side prevailed. "Partisan" doesn't mean wrong, and it's not a smear.

    Yes, some people think partisan is a smear, but those people probably all watch TV news, where a "non-partisan" bill means something other than "harmful to everyone" and a "partisan" bill means that some legislators happen to oppose it.

  • by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @02:00PM (#24648325)
    And there was this little gem:

    Did Groklaw really have an impact on those court cases? Naaah.

    Boy, does this guy do Groklaw and all its contributors an injustice.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18, 2008 @02:33PM (#24648769)

    While I hate to break the news to you, SCO is technically alive, could still be a general nuisance to the who computing business. Until a judge declares them irrevocably bankrupt, they are bought out for remnants and SCO managers are pounding the pavement for work, so is alive. I don't believe in kicking when they are down, but for SCO, I make the exception. Keep the presure on and finish SCO right off.

  • by osu-neko ( 2604 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @02:39PM (#24648839)
    There's nothing intellectually dishonest about having a point of view. (Pretending not to, on the other hand...)
  • by macraig ( 621737 ) <> on Monday August 18, 2008 @03:18PM (#24649295)

    What is most incredible to me is that Darl McBride and company will be able to walk away from this... humbled and humiliated publicly, but nonetheless able to walk away and try to do the same all over again. Everyone knows what they did was socially and economically unethical, and yet the corporate Old Boys' Network simply views what they did with a knowing wink and a nod. In the back social rooms, McBride will laugh and joke and reminisce with other CEOs about his stunt, and perhaps even be offered a few sage tips how he can improve his chances the next time. For people like this, there's always a next time because they never pay the full consequences of their actions.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 18, 2008 @03:22PM (#24649335)

    It's not a bias. Reality is open sourced. Anyone can participate in it, modify it and force the changes in the reality to everyone else. In fact, it is so open source that the act of not participating in the reality modifies the reality. And if you believe in multiverse theories, reality has been forked many times too.

  • by someone1234 ( 830754 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @04:49PM (#24650469)

    Then the court system is rotten to the core.
    Luckily it isn't :)
    How do you think a paralegal site should (and could) influence a court case significantly?
    The courts must (and i bet they would) have decided the same way without Groklaw.
    Of course Groklaw was sorely needed to dispel the fud and to keep concerned people informed.
    It balanced SCO quite well, even with its 'partisan noise' :)

  • by Lost Race ( 681080 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @05:01PM (#24650615)

    How do you think a paralegal site should (and could) influence a court case significantly?

    Maybe by giving the defense lots of good ideas and research to work from.

    However great the IBM lawyers are, they're not as good at reviewing code as thousands of independent programmers.

  • Perhaps I'm missing something here. When did SCO have a major run-up on their stock?

    From what I understand, SCO was one of the most heavily shorted public stocks ever. So much so that a number of even stock brokers who know what was going on with the lawsuits were discouraging clients from getting too aggressive on the stock in this way.

    BTW, a short position can have a varying window that you need before you "buy it back". It all depends on the contract that you sign, although I would agree it tends to be in the range of a few weeks to a few months... not the years and years it has been with SCO lately. I do remember that shortly before it was delisted on NASDAQ, the price suddenly shot back up briefly, and there was quite a bit of speculation that it was due to some large groups of folks covering their short positions. That was about the only "good news" I've seen with this company since the lawsuit was initiated.

    As far as the folks who were in a "long position" on SCO.... they're screwed. They now have a bit of computer history in terms of the paper their stock certificates represent, but only for collectors of that sort of esoteric historical document.

  • One trick pony? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @09:28PM (#24653447) Homepage

    I wonder if Groklaw can find something useful to do after SCO? So far, when it is ventured into other areas, its record has been spotty. There was a lot of inaccuracies in its coverage of OOXML standardization, for instance--I'd often read things there, and then follow the references to the original sources, and find out that the Groklaw reporting was just plain wrong.

    I hope Groklaw can turn into an accurate site for legal issues beyond SCO, and not just degenerate into another anti-MS site where accuracy is not important as long as the story is anti-MS.

  • by Zak3056 ( 69287 ) on Monday August 18, 2008 @09:54PM (#24653689) Journal

    They have confused reasoned opinion with bias.

    FWIW, there is very little on groklaw that can be called "reasoned opinion." Most of the stuff by PJ that is focused on the core cases is absolutely wonderful, and there are probably twenty or thirty people who bring plenty of insight to the discussion... but as for the rest? "Four legs good, two legs bad!" would not be an unfair description of the mindset, and sadly enough that sometimes applies to PJ herself.

    I say this as someone with a three digit GL uid who has been following the SCO saga since day one.

  • by ultranova ( 717540 ) on Tuesday August 19, 2008 @12:42PM (#24660405)

    There's nothing to suggest our species isn't capable of maintaining a sufficient level of voluntary reproduction in the absence of rape, nor that it ever was incapable of it.

    Well, for the sake of pedantry: if we take the view that any sexual act with someone without a normal adult humans mental facilities constitutes statutory rape, then it follows that any sexual reproduction prior to humanity reaching its current level of intelligence was rape.

  • by magus_melchior ( 262681 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2008 @03:17AM (#24669671) Journal

    Being partisan and right means:

    - Being the sort of person to rub salt in an opponent's wound, hopefully figuratively.
    - Being subject to the same treatment from critics when the shoe's on the other foot.
    - Being derided anyway by critic and spectator alike, because no one likes a jackass.
    - Being, equivocatingly, a neoconservative (Right) or a libertarian (politically right). One would need a very flexible dictionary in this case.

What this country needs is a good five cent ANYTHING!