Time Warner Cable Box Rental Inspired Antitrust Lawsuit 291
EmagGeek writes "Matthey Meeds, a real-estate agent, was so irritated about having to pay the monthly rental fee that on Tuesday he filed an antitrust suit against Time Warner Cable and its 84 percent owner, Time Warner Inc. The suit alleges that, by linking the provision of premium cable services to rental of the cable box, the companies have established illegal tying arrangements. 'Time Warner's improper tying and bundling harms competition,' Meeds' lawsuit states. 'Since the class can only rent the cable box directly from Time Warner, manufacturers of cable boxes are foreclosed from renting and/or selling cable boxes directly to members of the class at a lower cost.' I pay Comcast over $25/mo for my two DVRs. I'd love to just be able to buy them or build my own. I can't wait to see how this unfolds."
As an Ex cable industry insider.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I really hope this goes a bad way for cable companies. They have had a tight lock on cable boxes for too long, we have been stuck with the crappy quality cable boxes from motorola and SA for too long.
Re:As an Ex cable industry insider.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As an Ex cable industry insider.... (Score:5, Insightful)
And the reason those boxes are of such crappy quality is because the cable companies have such a tight lock. The cable companies want to keep the box cost down to maximize their own profits. If Motorola and SA could sell directly to consumers, they would suddenly have an incentive to improve the quality.
If consumers would grow a pair of balls and realize that TV isn't really worth this much money Time Warner would eventually have to lower their rates or be content with less subscribers. I remember when basic cable (roughly 40-50 channels back in the day) cost $20/mo around here. That was as recent as nine years ago before the local cable company got bought out by Time Warner. Now it costs $60/mo for the same number of real channels and about a dozen home shopping channels that weren't available before.
I dumped my cable down to 'lifeline' (local stations only) four years ago and haven't looked back since. Hell, I'd dump lifeline and go with an aerial if I could get decent reception out here in the boonies. The combination of the internet, books, PBS and the major networks is all the entertainment I need.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm much happier watching shows on dvd, on my schedule, and not interrupted by horrid ads.
Netflix doesn't work for sports (Score:2)
I pay $20/month for online dvd rentals, and haven't had cable in about 6 years. I never looked back.
Sure, DVD rentals work for films and scripted series, but not as well for time-sensitive live broadcasts like news, weather, and sports. True, news and weather are easy to get on the web or over free-to-air TV. But what do you do for sports, or do you just happen not to have a sports fan in your household?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure he watches broadcast TV for that, like Americans have been doing for decades.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but many local teams have moved their games to pay services. Some of these channels (like the New England Sports Network) are advertiser-supported and carried on cable programming tiers, while a few are still a pay-per-channel service similar to HBO.
In the case of the Boston Red Sox, probably some 140 or more of their 162 games are on NESN. The national outlets, Fox and ESPN, carry the occasional game (usually Red Sox vs. Yankees), but certainly not enough to satisfy the desir
Naked cable? (Score:2)
If consumers would grow a pair of balls and realize that TV isn't really worth this much money Time Warner would eventually have to lower their rates or be content with less subscribers.
I seem to remember reading that some cable modem providers require all residential high-speed Internet customers to subscribe to some cable television package, especially in areas where the phone company provides no high-speed Internet access. You're lucky that this package is "lifeline" and not "basic cable".
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Agre
Re:As an Ex cable industry insider.... (Score:4, Informative)
Umm, I'm pretty sure we aren't on the gold standard any longer so what relevance does the price of gold have to do with anything? Somehow I think if we had 300% inflation in the last nine years that it would be a story..... according to this [westegg.com] $20 in 1998 was worth $25.75 in 2007.
Re: (Score:2)
Dude, $20 nine years ago is way way way more REAL money than $60 is now. Take a look here [goldprice.org].
Gold is not REAL money. It hasn't been since 1933 (in the US). Gold is a commodity.
Re: (Score:2)
Gold IS money. The price of gold in USD is the exchange rate between USD and gold. The price indicates the demand / scarcity relationship between the two currencies. However, in most countries people are not forced to accept gold as payment of debt. The price of gold is along with other metals is a fairly good indicator of how much our currencies have been devalued by central banks.
Re: (Score:2)
uhhh
having just spent some time at my parrents house in raleigh, nc, and looking at what SA says their cable box has for features, versus what their local CableCo actually allows them to use, it's vastly different.
so just like some mobile phone companies (looks sideways at Verizon) gimp their phones, so too do some CableCo's gimp the boxes.
Why stop with cable companies? (Score:2)
Satellite is just as bad if not worse. Let alone the fact that HDTV has opened up all new fee structures that these companies can impose.
Case in point. I actually canceled Dish TV yesterday. I have been a subscriber for nearly two years. What went wrong, well I bought a HD TV. Now they have these great packages costing $24.99 and up for HD only. Guess what, I can't get them because their "billing" system can't handle the switch and won't be able to until 2009. If I want HD from them I not only have t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I hope for the best (Score:4, Informative)
Bandwagon (Score:4, Insightful)
We should join the venture and do this with Verizon FIOS.
I'm paying out almost $30 a month extra for 2 set top boxes and a DVR because they're required. We can't even watch the 10 "normal" channels anymore on a STB free tv. I have 2 more TV's i'd love to hook up but dont want to spend an extra $10 per STB per month.
David needs to take down Goliath again.
Re:Bandwagon (Score:5, Informative)
For a while Verizon Fios was giving out free Digital adapter boxes if you went to a service station and asked (no purchase or rental). They're really cheap-quality boxes, about the size of a CD wallet and don't have a TV Guide or VoD server. They just allow for manual entry of channels via a remote (which is what most people really need anyway).
But they can watch all non-HD channels that you subscribe to, all the way up through the 1000's.
I think they charge for them now as a purchase (not a rental). So you might want to ask about it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This is correct. They piggyback on the cabling already installed in the house.
Choice is there, he just doesn't like it. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
So, by your justification, Microsoft was never guilty of any anti-trust violations because "people didn't have to have it (Windows), they chose to buy it?"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't tell if that's sarcasm, but that's not the definition of monopoly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly [wikipedia.org]
Monopolies don't need 100% market share, they just need enough to be able to shape the nature of the market in that type of good. How the market is defined affects whether or not the entity is considered a monopoly. In the case of desktop OS, the 90% share means MS can affect the market in a big way. It may not be able to dictate terms, but it can certainly shape it.
He should be able to choose his hardware (Score:2, Interesting)
It's *not* alright for the company to charge me to rent the hardware, and t
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Choice is there, he just doesn't like it. (Score:5, Insightful)
it is Time Warner's network and they should be able to do whatever they want with it. I hate this current generation of people who think they're entitled to something just because they don't think it's "fair". Well, I've got news for you, this is how property rights work. If it's your property, you get to decide what to do with it.
But... It's not their property. It's actually the government granted right of way. What does that mean? That means IT'S YOUR PROPERTY. If there were actual competition, then sure, what you said is valid. But there isn't competition, cause the government said they don't need any competition. the government said they can go ahead and abuse YOUR PROPERTY to setup this network. In return, they are obligated to follow rules that are supposed to be more stringent because the free market is not capable making sure the deal is fair.
Re:Choice is there, he just doesn't like it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
From what I've seen of the comments on this article, people are confused about the nature of Time Warner's services. Time Warner does not give a simple DVR, in fact, the machine they give you is not technically a DVR at all, from what I can tell.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a SA 8300HD DVR from Time Warner and it most definitively has a Hard Drive in it. I can hear it spin up when I turn the box on, or intermittantly throughout the week as it checks for software updates and performs system maintenance.
If the recordings were stored off-site then the service would be useless to me. VOD services at my location are spotty at best.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The whole cablecard thing has fouled that all up.
Before "digital TV" you could use the same equipment on both
landline and sat cable. Now you are stuck with a limited
selection of equipment that will ONLY work on landline cable
systems and not at all with satellite cable systems.
If everything was just going through component, or some
channel on ATSC on the coax line, this situation would
not exist.
This entire "lack of replaceability" is due entirely to
this misguided cablecard idea and the notion that the
cable si
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I've got news for you, this is how property rights work. If it's your property, you get to decide what to do with it.
Property rights aren't always absolute. E. g. You might get some disagreement from a surprising source if you started exercising your property rights to remove your local cable provider's transmission lines from your yard
Re:Choice is there, he just doesn't like it. (Score:4, Funny)
Property rights aren't always absolute. E. g. You might get some disagreement from a surprising source if you started exercising your property rights to remove your local cable provider's transmission lines from your yard
Yeah, Comcast got surprisingly upset when somebody took an axe and cut their cables at my property line. The cables were all neatly tied back to the nearest pole and everything, you'd think they'd appreciate the tidyness of it. There was no easement in my deed that applied to Comcast, so I refused their repair crew entry to my property and they had to route around me (in the power company right-of-way that they were supposed to be using in the first place). My property had a lot more curb appeal without their ugly, poorly maintained wiring draped over it, so I have no complaints.
At about the same time, I happened to find some nice abandoned coax with an integrated heavy steel suspension line, that was very useful to a project I was working on. Go figure!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That argument failed AT&T, and it is what allowed 3rd party hardware (phones, modems, faxes) to use the telephone system, as long as it did not cause harm/damage/interference with the network.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
My parents have a Sky 'freeview' card - they get all the USA/European/Asian news channels for free (CNN, Russia Today, CCTV-9, Euronews, Deutsche Welle, FR-2) while with Virgin Media Cable, you have to pay for the most expensive channel bundling option in order to get the very same channels.
Virgin media more or less has an monopoly over anyone (or any apartment block) that hasn't been cabled for a satellite dish. Of course, there are portable satellite dishes [maplin.co.uk], but that depends on having a South facing wind
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
interesting point:
over here in europe we have less ad breaks than in the US and they tend to be shorter, the channels I'm used to generally have 1 break every 15 minutes for 2-3 minutes. Do you really have breaks every 10 minutes or less on some channels? I notice it in shows made for american TV that every now and then there's a point where it breaks for a split second and cuts back like at the start and end of an add break.
Some old kids shows were quite funny, *hero gets into impossible to escape situatio
Re: (Score:2)
Some programming blocks on some channels are nice enough to only cut the half hour block in half. One example is Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, where they tend to show like 11 minutes, then a few minutes of commercials, then the other 11 minutes, then five minutes or so of commercials.
Basically...
11 minutes show
3 minutes break
11 minutes show
5 minutes break
But I figure what is worst, is when some networks, which I won't mention, have pop-ups during the show advertising other shows on their network. And these
Re: (Score:2)
I'm "less" annoyed by the popups now, but only because some people got a clue about the noise-factor.
If I'm watching a crime drama I don't need to hear the sounds of car engines roaring and impact wrenches activating to notice the Nascar logo on the bottom of the screen.
Seeing the logo is one thing, not being able to hear the dialog in a friggin MYSTERY show is infuriating. Thankfully I don't experience many of those loud popups anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
That's what subtitles in the program are good for! :-]
Maybe if a joint effort is done to complain about the pop-up:s will have some effect. Everyone sends a postcard the same day and also calls the same day to complain about the same issue...
Re: (Score:2)
oh wait... your argument just fell apart there...
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah... but a DVD is a random access medium.
You can go straight to the feature if you really want to.
If hardware manufacturers aren't interested in implementing this feature you can do so yourself.
Re:What's more disturbing to me... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The greatest example of the commercial creep is the TV Guide channel. 15 years ago, it was a dedicated station that showed all the channels and programming. Then they went to 2/3 of the screen and had the weather at the top. Then it was 1/2 the screen and it was sponsored by The Weather Channel. Then it had ads. Now, it's barely 2 lines tall and completely unusable. With 80% of the screen dedicated to the trashiest TV ads you'll ever see. I just use TitanTV online to get listings.
TV Guide channel is useless in the digital cable (Score:2)
TV Guide channel is useless in the digital cable days WOW! cable dropped them. Even if you still have them they don't show the full digital cable line up.
Re: (Score:2)
When I started paying for Cable, it was $34.99 a month, plus HBO and the decoders. We had about 30 channels. The rate is still about the same for basic cable, but now we have 150+ channels. These other channels can't survive without advertising, and I don't mind it much at all. What I DO MIND, very much dislike, is the way the in-program advertising is ruining my viewing ability. They are not only splashing a tiny icon in the corner anymore, nor a small and innocuous banner at the instant return to a s
Re: (Score:2)
...and when alla carte cable comes out, and I drop all the analod and digital chanels except about 12 (since the ones I watch most are free over the air, and there are not many others I care about) I might keep cable around at $10/month, once I can get my own boxes that support CableCard II. With netflix (if I signed up), I don't really need VoD...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Excellent point, I always found it odd that even the quite expensive "premium" channels have advertising.
Define premium.
Around here, we define premium as HBO, ShowTime, Starz, etc. The only commercials I've ever seen on these channels are adverts for themselves... like "Tune in next month for a new season of Dexter, everyone's favorite serial killer" or "The Tudors are returning this fall." I find that completely acceptable.
Then again I don't watch any premium Sports channels so I don't know much about them.
Don't get me wrong, I find it annoying that there are so many adverts on basic cable.
Re: (Score:2)
Define premium.
TV service that you pay for, as opposed to OTA.
When the movie is a commercial (Score:2)
Around here, we define premium as HBO, ShowTime, Starz, etc. The only commercials I've ever seen on these channels are adverts for themselves
On the "premium" movie channels, I've seen 100 minute movies with 100 minutes of commercials. Try removing all NES commercials from The Wizard (1989) [wikipedia.org] and what do you get?
I wonder... (Score:3, Interesting)
Would a consumer-positive result (IE: Time Warner loses) also have any kind of side-effect on the issues surrounding the cable "Broadcast Flag" controversy and digital T.V. cards for PC's? Admittedly, I stopped following that entire scene a year or two ago when the flag came to life, so it may have already been resolved, but it does make one wonder what far-reaching effects a positive ruling in a case like this might have.
To quote the great philosopher, Fezzik: "I hope we win."
I can think of an interesting parallel in the UK (Score:3, Interesting)
Way back in the mists of time, the UK telecoms market was a government-granted monopoly - initially granted to the Post Office, later spun out into a separate company.
Go back far enough, and anyone who wanted a telephone was obliged not only to rent the line but also the telephone itself (which was listed on the bill as a separate item that you rented). Someone did take the telco to court over this and won - and today there are any number of telephones on the market you can plug in.
Furthermore, the cable company (another monopoly...) always goes to great pains to stress that the cable box (and/or cable modem) is free, you're just paying for the line it connects to. I don't doubt that these two are related.
Re: (Score:2)
Whatevs (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Wow, I don't believe i. They have to wait a whole year to recoup a capital expenditure.
My god, how do they stay in business ?!?!?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, it used to be than Long term was 20+ years, medium term was 5-20 years, and short term was anything under 5 years.
Nowadays it seems that long term is a whopping 12 months, medium term is 2-6 months, and short term is anything up
I don't get this at all (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
MythTV (Score:4, Insightful)
If this pans out than MythTV will finally be a viable solution. MythTV is a great system and works splendidly as a DVR and it has its own browser and you can do pretty much anything linux can do from your remote and they are cheap because they use standard parts. So you could probably build your own set top box for 300 dollars. Moreover if these set top boxes were mass produced than they could be really cheap. Even though they probably wouldn't have too many bells and whistles but they would be cheap and you wouldn't be forced to pay a monthly fee for a POS device.
Either way all this bundling is killing us. Whether its cell phones or cable boxes they are sapping all our money.
Re: (Score:2)
I haven't keep track of MythTV lately as I have a TiVo HD. The problem with MythTV going forward is that it can only do HD with OTA. Since CableLabs won't approve MythTV (or any digital cable tuner cards) as a CableCard device it handicaps the usefulness for digital cable. As far as I can tell the only way to make it work with digital cable is to have the MythTV use IR blasters for the set top box. Which is the main reason I dumped my previous TiVo when the HD model came out. The IR blasters are not reliabl
Re: (Score:2)
The IR blasters are not reliable and the cable companies will not activate the serial port on that back.
Really? Weird. I have my Myth box configured with two SD tuners hooked up to a pair of Motorola STBs, driven with blasters from irblaster.info, and in the two years the system has been running it has never, repeat, *never* missed a tune. Ever. And I record a lot of crap. :)
For HD (if I ever upgrade), I'll go with the exact same setup, just using one of the new HD component capture devices that've hit
Re: (Score:2)
There is already an analog HD capture solution. It's supported in the current
development release of MythTV and is already supported in a number of commercial
PVR solutions (not MCE though).
That "advantage" just flew out the window for Tivo.
Tivos only work with your local landline monopoly. Mine only carries about 5
HD channels beyond the locals that I can already get for free myself OTA.
This is the most annoying aspect of this cablecard mess. In the old days, I
could have quite effectively hooked up a Tivo to
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, I think CableLabs should be forced to release the specs to communicate with CableCards as open source and the providers be required to activate anything that can do the handshake. They shouldn't be required to offer tech support other than getting the card to communicate, but they shouldn't get to lock it all down either. I think it's retarded that they can lock out anyone they don't like.
Note that I said the specs to interface to a CableCard, NOT the internal code or schematics. that means that
Re: (Score:2)
Don't underestimate MythTV. It's been a viable option for awhile. I've been running a Knoppmyth [mysettopbox.tv] box for almost 2 years. The initial outlay was small (I was replacing my computer anyway, so I needed a HTPC case and a TV card (total about $200). Added to the cost of components, it's a little steep, but it's got a lot of advantages.
1. No "rental" fees to Comscat. $20/yr to schedulesdirect beats $10/mo
2. The box is MINE.
3. The integrated DVD player ignores stupid "Don't skip" directives on FBI Warnings, Preview
Re: (Score:2)
MythTV as good as it is not the ultimate solution. It's great on analog cable. Unfortunately HD cable requires you to have a HD cable decoder which only the cable companies supply. This HD decoder is different from the over-the-air kind you can buy and is likely to have DRM. Now you can pair your MythTV with your digital cable box (all digital boxes must have a digital out like USB or Firewire port), but you are limited to what those boxes can do. Almost all digital boxes only handle one stream at a t
Re: (Score:2)
Did you use a device that specifically support or
at least acknowledges Linux?
There is an HD capture board specifically made for Linux.
There is also a nice network capture solution with dual
tuners that also has explicit Linux support.
Also, HD takes more box to handle (decoding or transcoding).
who cares? cable TV is circling the drain... (Score:2)
Cable TV as we know it is circling the drain already.
The whole idea of sending a 750 MHz wide signal (yes! nearly 3/4 gigabit!) of signal to a home, where only 3-6 MHz of signal is actually going to be used is just plain silly.
I cannot wait for IP-based television to become predominant. The television and video entertainment markets as we know them are going to be stood on their heads, and it could not happen to a nicer bunch. (You can already see this happening with Apple TV and the RoKu NetFlix player.
TV sent to a neighborhood (Score:2)
The whole idea of sending a 750 MHz wide signal (yes! nearly 3/4 gigabit!) of signal to a home, where only 3-6 MHz of signal is actually going to be used is just plain silly.
The 750 MHz signal is sent to a whole neighborhood. How does the cable operator know which live streams someone actually wants to watch, unless the cable operator sets everything up on demand? There are already delays in waiting for the next keyframe when tuning in a channel; treating every channel as an on demand stream would just make the delays longer.
I cannot wait for IP-based television to become predominant.
What in television is not intellectual property-based?
I'm Switching (Score:2)
Yet Another Useless Lawsuit by the Ignorant (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, you just said they don't exist yet! Re-read your own comment. Sure, I can get a CableCARD, but no VOD or any other two-way services.
Besides, go to Comcast's website and try to find a CableCARD and the fee. You won't. And why should I have to pay the damn fee anyway? Why can't I just give them a serial number off the back of the damn thing after I bought it at WalMart?!
Re: (Score:2)
I'll be excited about this when it's actually OPEN, not that it just has "open" in the name. That means I can download specs, for free, to build a device to decrypt channels that I paid for and the parts needed to do it are available from a large supplier like Digikey with no further licencing requirements and no requirement that the cable company or CableLabs "approve" my device. If it's technically capable of being connected and not harming the network, I should be able to connect it and the cable company
On direct TV each box after the 1st is $4.99 a mo (Score:2)
On direct TV each box after the 1st is $4.99 a mo for any box. Dish and cable make you pay more if the other box is a HD or DVR on top of the box free.
Comcarp web site makes it very hard to find the true cost for of the box fees with pick the boxes with out a way to tell you want you need to pick for the 2th or more box is it the HD fee + digital outlet fee or the HD fee + the DVR fee Just the digital outlet fee and so on? And they want $10 - $30 per box up front based on what box you pick. And the HD boxes
At least you don't have Dish (Score:3, Informative)
Paid $300 up front for my DVR, then the setup fee, then the activation fee, then I still have to pay a fee each month for the rental of the box (their excuse is that its a $700 box and I got it at a discount), then I have to pay for the DVR service. Then I paid the $40 one time fee to activate the USB port so that I could use MY external HD, which they cut access to if I am just one day late on my bill.
Wonder if (Score:2)
It doesn't make sense about set top boxes.
You can buy one, but they are not fully legal, because it may be a hot box.
Yet they offer you the option to purchase your cable modem from them.
What if he wins? (Score:3, Insightful)
Full disclosure: I work for a small cable operator.
Ok, what if he wins. TW still has to pay for the costs of those boxes. The ones we use cost up to $400 from SA if they have a DVR. Instead of spreading the cost fairly among all subscribers, everyone's price goes up.
The guy can try to sue for openness, but that's exactly what the FCC has tried to push with the CableCard system. It hasn't worked. The free market isn't there because it's not a sustainable business model.
In the year we've been on digital, we've had one person ask about using a CableCard because his TV was supposed to support it. He finally found out that his TV was built on a draft version, and wouldn't work without a hardware upgrade.
Anyone here ever performed an upgrade on their TV?
If TW was violating the FCC rules, I could see this guy having a case, but he can't even find hardware that will support the CableCard lock/key system operators employee to secure their system.
Re:What if he wins? (Score:4, Insightful)
The cable card system DOES work, I am using it now. However I was forced to rent a cable box as a basic requirement for getting premium services in addition to the cable cards. I only plugged it in once, and as it turns out, the thing is broken. It sits in my closet, sipping up $15 a month out of my wallet.
And yes I have performed an upgrade on my TV, if by upgrade you mean firmware ( this is slashdot, right? ).
As far as taxing everyone to spread the cost of the boxes ( by way of forcing everyone to get one ), it would seem like TW could save $400 by not forcing me to stash on in my closet and maybe charge everyone a bit less.
You guys pay $400 for a cable box? Seems a bit stiff considering the price of a tivo. Maybe this is exactly what I am talking about.
As far as an open platform not being a sustainable business model, how would we know? I mean, TW did force me to get that cable box right? Seems like cable companies are not giving CableCard a fair shake on purpose. If it were not for FCC mandating it, TW would not support it at all ( they barely do now ). I wonder why? I lied, I don't wonder much at all.
Stop drinking the CoolAid, its not good for you.
Re: (Score:2)
Switched video's been a problem for over a year (I remember worrying about it before buying my Tivo HD). The 'solution' from Tivo has been 'coming' for months - I want to say this was announced in January.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Last I heard, it was a dongle you plug into the USB port on the back of the Tivo. Engadget [engadget.com] reported it was supposed to be available 2Q2008.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Yup. The big beef is that the manufacturer serial number is a rendom length value too. Plus the billing system was only designed to accept either moto or SA valid serial numbers. So it has to be re-educated to take a device ID(cablecard) and a host ID (the random number of digits and type of characters manufacturer's serial number) for billing instead of just a fixed length serial number.
Using the account number is a bad idea. Especially when some boxes are provisioned to NOT get HD or HD on demand, or p
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, I can say truthfully that comcast's billing system is HAPPY to run on a VT100 terminal... They just make a snazzy front-end to it for the "normal" reps to use. Only supervisors and above can go in and "manually" change things.
Re:Better solutions are out there.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Naughty. You used the word "Vista" and "solution" in the same sentence without a negative. This is Slashdot, what were you thinking?
Anyways:
Enjoy your 3 months of free DVR rental as part of your settlement offer
The point here is not to make a quick buck in a settlement. It's to get the cable company to unbundle thier service from thier hardware. If the company won't give you access to thier premium services without renting thier cable box, your alternatives don't help.
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me where I can buy one of these Vista MCE boxes with a cablecard in it?
The current regime in cable encryption is just a weak excuse to lockout meaningful competition. ...and no the vanishingly small number of large corporations capable of
getting cablelabs blessing doesn't constitute competition.
Re:Better solutions are out there.. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are two sides to this coin though.
Yes, TiVo's are awesome. Unless they break, then you have to fix it. 'Fix' sometimes = Buy a new one.
Time Warners box costs $6.95 or whatever a month. It'd take you 43 months to pay $299 that say a TiVo costs (ok not all do, but I'm doing the HD dual tuner model)
When has one TiVo stayed on the market for 43 months without a new model with new features?
At time warner, I get a new one if a new functionality/feature comes out, and if it breaks, I get a new one no questions asked (barring 'why does this look like it was beat with a hammer' kind of thing)
oh, did TiVo stop charging monthly too? I quit using one about two years ago. yes you can buy the one time thing I think, but again that's a good chunk of money.
Having had a TiVo Break, or a new version come out within 43 months of purchase, I can say that to me the time warner deal isn't that bad.
Re:Better solutions are out there.. (Score:4, Insightful)
So you're paying almost $50 a year for two cards that costs cents each to produce. They've done exactly the same thing by forcing you to rent cards rather than cable boxes.
What exactly is the monthly fee supposed to be covering? It may even be that their margin on cable box rentals isn't much different than that on card rentals.
Once, the card is issued all it is is a number in a database to them. This is like a hotel charging you per night for the room key.
Why on earth aren't they charging you a couple of dollars for the card and then being done with the charging? Perhaps you should join the suit or start your own?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because they it makes it harder for them to claim they still own the card.
Subscription pricing makes it clear it isn't yours.
Re: (Score:2)
Keep in mind that TIVO is not a one-time cost. They also have a monthly cost for listings.
This monthly cost alone is MORE than what my cable company charges for renting a DVR box (and there is no capital cost or commitment on my part: I can cancel DVR at any time)
In short, if you're buying a TIVO, it's not because you want to save money vs. cable companies' offerings, even factoring out the cable card part. It's because you prefer TIVO's presentation or features. If you just want the least expensive DVR
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Tivos do not necessarily have a monthly cost for listings. Lifetime service (tied to the box) has returned for all. You have to decide whether the 'gamble' is worth it to you, but generally the thing to go wrong on a Tivo is the hard drive. (Even if it is not, you can usually pay a certain fee to Tivo to get a new box and have the lifetime transferred. That refers to the case of a broken Tivo. What you can't do is just go buy a new Tivo and expect to transfer the lifetime service -- with rare exceptions
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They'll just raise the monthly rate to compensate if they can't charge a rental fee for the box.
They'll just raise the monthly rate
Fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:2)
Companies are scared to death of actually having to advertise the price they charge, so that's unlikely. They LOVE $5 fees that they don't have to advertise, so they SOUND like a good deal in the ads, and only after subscribing would you realize you've been screwed.
Anyhow, they could have done that in the first place, and bundled the boxes for $0, if not for the above. But now that it has gone to court, and is on record, expect a second anti-trust lawsuit if they try tha
Re: (Score:2)
I thought all the fees were laid out in the contract they sent you. It's too bad that people are impulsive, and don't research what they are buying into. But it's hardly something that you can't find out about before you sign up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In some localities (like mine) you can't get a TWC cable card because TWC is the only cable provider and thus they can permit refusing to give you anything unless you go along with their plan. I just got TWC because, again, it's the only thing I can get in my rental property for a reasonable price and TWC knows it. They have a butt-ugly modem and a very customer-unfriendly SA box. Anything but the free-to-air channels (regular or HD) are scrambled to any other receiver and no, I can't get anything to decode
Re: (Score:2)
If your locale is under the coverage of the FCC you should report them. They do not have the option to "not supply" cable cards - it's not something they do to be nice it's something they do because they legally have to.
From wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
The "rare exceptions" I believe come into effect when
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The other thing, that everyone needs to realize, is that that $7 a month is called a box rental fee, but that's also to cover support costs for that box. When a customer has a problem with the box itself, are they calling Scientific Atlanta, or Time Warner Cable? They call Time Warner Cable.
So fine, get your own box, but then, just like the phone company, if a customer is having technical issues with that cable box that is unrelated to Time Warner's cable signal, then that customer calls the manufacturer
Re: (Score:2)
So you are also a fan of the phone company not allowing you to own your own phone, right? Things were so much better when AT&T owned all phones, and you couldn't hook up anything neat like, say, an answering machine to the network.
Get a clue. This is purely a consumer-hostile move by the cable companies to keep a higher revenue stream coming in, built on the back of their government-granted (aka granted by you) rights of way to provide service.
Would you be happy if you let your neighbor park his car i
Re: (Score:2)
It costs me $1.50 a month to rent that cable card. I also see a lot of people saying why do I need a cable box with a digital tuner in my TV. Most of those TVs, have cable card slots in them. Again, get a cable card, now you're not paying $7+ a month to rent a box you don't need.
No, you're paying $1.50-$4+ a month to rent a cable card you don't need. Your solution, well, isn't.
Re: (Score:2)
...all of that would be valid and true if:
IF you could actually buy your own equipment and then
install it yourself without any interference or help from
the cable company.
The problem is that you can't do that. This entire
cablecard bullshit setup is designed specifically to
prevent that.
No more going to Best Buy and picking from a selection
of 30 VCRs, going home and just plugging that into your
coax.