British "X-files" Released to Public 231
Smivs writes "Britain's Ministry of Defence has just released files regarding investigations into UFO sightings between 1978 to 1987. Over the next three or four years, 160 files will be handed over to the
National Archives. The first group of eight files, one of which is more than 450 pages long,
is available today.
The Guardian newspaper details many of the events in question, some interesting and many just bizarre.
A similar release of UFO files by France's national space agency last year attracted more than 220,000 users on its first day, causing it to crash. To avoid such problems, the National Archives is using an external hosting company which can add extra capacity as needed to handle the web traffic."
UFO Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
He, and his colleagues, knew all along that this is what would happen. Apparently.
The interviewer tried to get him to say "the truth is out there" but he wouldn't bite!
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PG: The Government is out to get me man! They have traps everywhere for me.
OD: Wtf? Why would they spend millions or billions after you. You are just_another_dude!
PG: Exactly! They are all a bunch of crazies I tell ya. Why would they do that otherwise?
OD:
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Decent argument if well presented, actually. An ad hominem would be something like, "You're nuts, but our viewers want to watch me make fun of you. So would you like a clown nose to make it easier on me?"
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The sad thing is I woke up lying in my own bed
Re:UFO Expert (Score:5, Informative)
Some people see aliens (a common modern thing), many see ghosts. When researching this (I suffer from this disorder myself) I found out that in earlier times many people would see a succubus or demon raping them.
These episodes can be lucid if you work at it (I can lucid dream but I've never been able to have a lucid ASP episode), so you could actually make your alien babe abduction fantasy come true
Re:UFO Expert (Score:5, Funny)
I had one (Score:3, Insightful)
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More info please.
Re:I had one (Score:5, Interesting)
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I experience that when I sleep under an electric blanket.
You don't get used to it, and it is really freaky.
I did get to the point where I could breath load and sometimes that wakes my wife, who shakes me so my body come awake.
Once I realized my episodes were all linked to have the electric blanket on, it mostly went away..mostly.
Re:I had one (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't get used to it, and it is really freaky.
I get them pretty often though. Normally once every 2-3 weeks, for as long as I can remember. What really helped me was learning the medical explanation. Once I knew that no ghosts or zombies were actually coming into my room to terrorize me, I was able to handle it much better.
Re:UFO Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
Since then I have been skeptical of so called OBE's and alien visitations/abductions.
ASP (Score:4, Funny)
I always thought it stood for "Active Server Pages", silly me.
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The sad thing is I woke up lying in my own bed
parent poster is right (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:parent poster is right (Score:5, Insightful)
(UFO documents are released)
UFO nuts: Those documents don't offer the evidence we wanted! Therefore, there must be more documents somewhere that do! Release more documents!
(rinse, repeat)
This cycle has been going on for 50 years. If there was anything to this, some country somewhere would have released documents proving something by now.
And just because the government investigated UFO sightings, it doesn't mean aliens are visiting. The government investigated ESP too, and it's still hogwash.
Re:parent poster is right (Score:4, Interesting)
in 50s and 60s, people who claimed that they saw ufos with a solid argument would get visited by intelligence agencies and told to shut up, and if they didnt comply either suddenly disappeared from public life, or extremely discredited to the extent that they would need to move and hide. if there isnt anything important about ufo things like skeptics like you argue, no intelligence agency would need to go that far.
nowadays in the last 3 years, we are seeing an increasing level of 'allowance' for ufo talks. first it started with main outlets like cnn showing ufo clips, whereas they never did before, and then started the government agencies - first mexican air force, then japanese government official drops a hint. then some documents are released in france, then in uk now.
can you see a pattern ?
Re:parent poster is right (Score:5, Funny)
Take off the tinfoil hat (Score:5, Informative)
No alien civilization is expending the mammoth amount of resources needed to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space just to stick a probe up your ass. Deal with it.
Re:Take off the tinfoil hat (Score:5, Funny)
But you aint SEEN my ass, honey.
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This book is a shockingly candid and measured look at the UFO evidence through the 1950's, doesn't engage in speculation and is very much worth a read.
Re:Take off the tinfoil hat (Score:5, Funny)
One of the greatest moments in the history of TV occurred on a show I can't even remember now, though it was probably an old episode of the Daily Show.
The show featured three different and independent UFO crazies who all claimed to have had close contact with aliens, and it brought them together to tell their tales.
One of the guys claimed that he had been abducted and raped on a repeated basis. Not probed, raped, because the aliens intent was to impregnate him with their alien eggs, and I guess the human rectum was a viable implantation spot.
One of the other crazies, who if I recall claimed that she had seen aliens wandering around the woods by her house, chimed in to say something along the lines of "That's just silly; nobody is gonna travel half way across the galaxy just to have anal sex with you."
How do you know you're a true UFO crazy? When another UFO crazy tells you off for being too damn crazy! Oh man I about died that day; and it would have been okay because my life was complete.
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Just because you can't identify it doesn't mean someone else can't. In the 50's and 60's UFO's were mostly experimental aircraft that the USA didn't want anyone to know about. Things like the prototype for the SR-71, various technology demostrators. Most of them have been declassified and the list of one-off planes built by the US government is long. To date No UFO evidence has been recorded with modern camera's Only old style black & white, or camera
Re:parent poster is right (Score:4, Funny)
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Because the aliens are actually smart enough to only appear:
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For example? I'm not saying that didn't happen, just that it would be helpful to include some supporting evidence, as it's a surprising claim (to me, at least.)
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But really - there have been multiple people who have admitted to voluntarily faking UFO sightings. Remember when people thought crop circles where signs from aliens?
If we have proof that a large number of UFO sightings are fake, isn't it more likely that the rest are also fake, rather than that we just haven't proved any of them real yet?
Re:parent poster is right (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm not sure I'd say that about ESP.
Jessica Utts, one of the statisticians involved in the government projects, has said that [ucdavis.edu]:
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I might suggest to Ms. Utts that, if there really are 'ever-increasing and consistent results', she could easily get funding from James Randi, who has a cool million just waiting especially for her!
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Scientists are interested in questions such as probability of a Type I error across multiple experiments and meta-analysis, Randi is interested in something flashy.
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He also has a team of very bright people that work with him and set of the scientific tests.
Considering the number of Dowsers tested, I would suspect that it is more then 'something flashy'.
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Randi is a sad little man who cannot get the world's attention, even with a million dollars (a million non-existent dollars, by the way).
So is this (PDF file) [randi.org] and this [archive.org] fake? From the Million Dollar Challenge FAQ [randi.org]:
The medium-length answer: The money is held in the form of immediately negotiable bonds held by Goldman Sachs, a highly respected investment firm. Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Go
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These people believed that a spaceship companion to the Hale-Bopp comet had arrived to take them to the "next level". They returned a telescope they had purchased when it failed to show the spaceship. Obviously the telescope was defective.
They all killed themselves in order to get on board the spaceship. Apparently, it never occurred to them to question their own beliefs.
How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exist? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis (Score:2)
Re:How exactly do you prove something DOESN'T exis (Score:2)
Have you never heard of a narwhal? What did you think happened when a narwhal and a horse mate?!?!
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Thats a lame excuse... I think the general public wouldn't care unless it turns out that the aliens use humans for food or reality TV.
Re:parent poster is right (Score:5, Informative)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_aliens [yahoo.com]
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then you are naive. Religions force people to believe that god created Man in his image and we are the center of the universe because of it.
And science pretty much forces religion to back the fuck off, every time -- see Galileo. Sure, it takes time, but eventually, religion adapts so that it can still theoretically be right, even when things it used to hold as core beliefs are completely disproven.
Do you really think that there are enough religious nuts in control of enough of the world who, say, haven't seen Star Trek? For that matter, do you honestly think that it's easier to hide "the truth" from the world than to simply declare that we're
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If we found out there were extraterrestrials there isn't going to be a 'freak out' or panic.
Anymore then there was a freak out and public panic when Native Americans were discovered.
There is no solid evidence. Think about it. Going public would be a great way to get billions and billions of dollars into a space race and a great excuse to militarize space. The military would have a base on Mars by now.
Evidence of non-existence (Score:5, Informative)
Everything regarding UFOs, paranormal effects, and such, is like that. They always claim that something is being hidden, and how can you possibly prove that some file is not being hidden somewhere?
I once tried to counteract that, asking for an UFO expert to give me the very best case they had for UFOs. He answered with a case that is cited in the Encyclopaedia Britannica as being one of the most reliable cases for the existence of UFOs: in August 13, 1956 RAF jets were sent after some objects that were detected by radar, coming from above the Soviet Union at very high speed. Those objects disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean. My answer: that sighting coincides exactly with the Perseid meteor shower [wikipedia.org]. Those UFOs had the same behavior that would be expected from a meteoroid. And that's one of the "best established and most puzzling" UFO sightings, according to the Britannica.
To sum up, we cannot prove that "real evidence" isn't being hidden somewhere. But if one of the most respected publications in the world cannot give us one single example of an UFO sighting that cannot be trivially explained with five minutes of research, then I really cannot believe that any stronger evidence exists.
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Regardless, the biggest reason there are all these conspiracy theories that the Governments aren't forthcoming with their secrets. Personally, I believe this is the worst thing possible in a democratic society in a peace time environment.
Why is there a need to have secrets such as the Nevada bases? Why can't the military be forthcoming about projects 40 years ago? Maybe its not alien
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You have a point. (Score:2)
Alright I'll bite ... (Score:4, Informative)
During the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles the military instituted a mandatory black out of the entire city & fired 1400+ Anti-Aircraft rounds at a single, quoting the military, "unidentified aircraft." This lasted for more than an hour. Despite numerous confirmed hits the craft remained airborne and eventually flew off without ever being identified. (read the LA times article).
In 1948 green fireballs were seen over the south-western skies of the US near nuclear weapons research sites. Famous meteoriticist Dr. Lincoln La Paz declared they weren't normal meteors. In 1949 the USAF started Project Twinkle under the direction of Dr. Anythony Mirachi.
The study concluded in a now unclassified report that cinetheodolites had tracked 4 objects traveling at an "altitude of ~150K ft" (~28.5 miles!), were "30 ft. in diameter", & traveling at an "undeterminable, yet high speed." Mirachi went on to later criticize a Time magazine article that claimed there was no proof to support the existence of UFOs.
Mirachi wrote, "There was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation. The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.' He said he didn't see how the Navy could say there had been no concrete evidence of the phenomena."
Also in the year 1948 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a self-proclaimed skeptic, joined Project Blue Book as a scientific advisor. By 1969 when Blue Book was shutdown Hynek did an about face. He wrote several books, particularly, "The Hynek UFO Report" which repeatedly stated that the attitude of Blue Book was, "it can't be therefore it isn't."
He also gave an interview, available on youtube watch?v=pyDVR2B14dw, where he said, "I was there at Blue Book and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, don't rock the boat, & I saw it [with] my own eyes.
On July 13-29th, 1952, over the skies of Washington DC, numerous UFOs were seen on the ground, in the air, & tracked on radar. The situation escalated & General Samford, Director of Intelligence of the USAF, held an emergency press conference. When asked by a reporters what people were seeing he suggested the lights on the ground may have looked like they were in the air because inversions act like an "air lens" & bend light rays. He added that something similar could have "tricked" radar in to thinking it was tracking aerial targets.
In 1969 an Air Force scientific report titled "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages" (Menkello, F.G. Report No. 6112, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center) made it clear inversion strong enough to create the visual effect described during the 1952 press-conference could not exist in earth's atmosphere.
1956 at Bentwater/Lakenheath an object was sighted by several military officers on the ground while simultaneously tracked on radar at 2 different stations. The object moved at ~4000 mph and was monitored for several hours during which two planes were scrambled.
When the 1st DeHavilland Venom locked on to the object it shot to the rear of the plane. The pilot tried evasive maneuvers, couldn't break free & eventually had to return to base to refuel.
The 2nd plane encountered mechanical difficulties as it flew within range of the object. The US sponsored Condon Report had this to say, "In conclusion, although conventional or natural explanations certainly cannot be ruled out, the probability of such seems low in this case and the probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved appears fairly high."
Astronaut Gordon Cooper claimed he saw his 1st UFO while flying over W. Germany in 1952. During 1957 while filming at Edwards AFB base he stated he saw a UFO land in the CA flats and that t
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British 'X-Files'? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:British 'X-Files'? (Score:5, Funny)
You're confused. That's the British gay porn show.
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You're confused. That's the British gay porn show.
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I forgot how I was going to make that point.
Proof at last (Score:5, Funny)
Finally! Undeniable proof in the existance of Santa Claus! I knew it!
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You're the only one who is going to RTFA. reading the (choice of for letter f words) article
reading the (face |fact |fade |fado |fads |fags |fail |fain |fair |fake |fall |falx |fame |fane |fang |fano |fans |fard |fare |farl |farm |faro |fart |fash |fast |fate |fats |faun |faux |fava |fave |fawn |fays |faze |feal |fear |feat |feck |feds |feed |feel |fees |feet |fehs |fell |felt |feme |fems |fend |fens |feod |fere |fern |fess |feta |fete |fets |feud |feus |fiar |fiat |fibs |fice |fico |fido |fids |fief |fife |figs |fila |file |fill |film |filo |fils |find |fine |fink |fino |fins |fire |firm |firn |
Don't forget (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Don't forget (Score:5, Informative)
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Exactly; it's a semantic cop-out. "UFO" holds two, related meanings, which they love to conflate...
1. Unidentified Flying Object: Something that's flying that wasn't identified.
2. Unidentified Flying Object: An alien spacecraft kept secret through government conspiracies.
The UFO believers really, really want to talk about #2. But if you point out just how
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If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If you believe in alien spaceships on Earth... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Overly Anthropomorphic (Score:2)
There is a good reason that these odd experiences seem to you to be overly anthropomorphic. We are anthropomorphic creatures. We relate or describe things that are completely outside our experience with terms we can understand. We, reasonably, compare the strange and unusual with things that are within our experience, philisophy or religion. Hence, "little green men" vice .8 to .9 meter tall, semi-translucent green exterior membrane, bilaterally symmetric organisms.
Read the Revelation of John and count
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You forgot 28 (Score:4, Funny)
Well fuck me silly.... (Score:4, Funny)
But all the good stuff is blacked out so what is.. (Score:3, Funny)
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Really, the truth has no obligation to be what you want it to be.
Highlight (Score:5, Funny)
seen them (Score:2)
Interesting. (Score:2, Insightful)
Aliens visting us would change nothing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe some of the religious monkey elders would get upset but that's about it. It's not like the monkeys are going to suddenly figure out how to turn sticks and branches into a car and drive out of the forest and start wearing suits and ties and drinking $4 lattes at Starbucks.
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however we are not going to go screaming in the night panicking.
A few might, but then they will realize there isn't anyplace to run to!
I would wager there will be some tragic cult deaths.
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If we don't have the cognitive ability to grasp it, then we can't even see it.
If we see a saucer hovering, then we will know it is possible. It might be beyond are grasp to immediatly figure it out, but we will.
This does assume it's a verifiable object.
I am just saying we have the ability and knowledge to move on with out needing much more then observation.
Wrong stance (Score:2)
Flying Saucers as a Jungian archetype .. (Score:3, Interesting)
I believed when I was young (Score:5, Interesting)
As I matured it began to dawn on me. My experience, had it been real, would have been reported by somebody else. The memory was from my childhood, it could have been a dream before I understood the difference.
The more I tried to relive the memory, the more an unnerving recognition hit me. Shit, I had seen the spaceship from ET in my backyard! It had been a dream created by my overactive imagination.
I had wanted it to be true I swore that it was, because the memory backed me up, but my own memory betrayed me.
Looking back I see that misconceptions are common human fallicies, and that is why scientific data, which is checked and doubled checked by many people is so critical in the search for truth.
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I Used to Get UFO Calls From the Public (Score:5, Funny)
Way back in a previous life, when I was a USAF Recruiter working out of the Reno, Nevada office on Moana Lane, I would occasionally get a UFO report from an excited member of the public. The recruiting office was the only number listed under U.S. Air Force in the Reno phone book because the nearest Air Force base was located across the Sierra Nevada mountains in Sacramento, California.
At first, I tried to explain that the local Air Force recruiting office wasn't the right place to report a UFO sighting, but then I realized what a gift these calls were.
From then on, whenever a UFO report came in, I got as excited as the caller, asking them for details, etc. Then I explained I wasn't the correct office to report UFOs to and then gave them the number to the Nevada Air National Guard's base operations office.
And I always told the caller to not take "no" as answer from whoever answered the phone.
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Kidding, kidding...
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Re:Awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
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let me do something similar :
i was the one who persuaded napoleon bonaparte to proclaim himself emperor and depose republic.
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Re:Awesome (Score:4, Informative)
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In fact he is the father of all are major conspiracy theory. Bermuda triangle, Roswell, Philadelphia story and others.
Usually taking a grain of truth, or piece of a quote and then expounding on it.
Even though these are fictional books, quoted from them often circle within the conspiracy community.
The books are presented in a way as to give the appearance of not being fictional.
When analyzed even th
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On the other hand, that's exactly what they'd think, and they'd know that we knew, so you may just as well be a government spy. Well, I'm not saying anything.
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You still ahve 'need to know'.
So If I am working with nuclear materials, that doesn't mean I get to know the security system at the white house or get to look at the latest test plane.
Yes, I have had that clearance, and yes I worked with nuclear materials.
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Original Documentary (Score:2)