70% of P2P Users Would Stop if Warned by ISP 318
Umpire writes "As the UK considers a three strikes policy to fight copyright infringement, a new survey reports that 70% of UK broadband users would stop using P2P if they received a warning from their ISP. 'Wiggin commissioned the 2008 Digital Entertainment Survey, which found that 70 percent of all people polled said they would stop illegally sharing files if their ISP notified them in some way that it had detected the practice. When broken down by age group, an unexpected trend emerges: teenagers are generally more likely to change their behavior than older Internet users.'"
I'm in the 30% (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honesty (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me that the gov't came up to me on the very first day I ever worked and declared I would only get paid for about 25 of the 40 hours I work each week, and that they would take the rest. What's your point, other than that bad analogies make bad arguments?
Why -1? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Ignoring the fact that no one would be brave enough to try and pass a bill like that, I believe that is a little too harsh as you're not giving time for the markets to adapt and try new models. It'd make a lot of businesses bankrupt.
If you really wanted it to work you'd need to reduce copyright on all products to 10 years. At least there is then motivation for creating new works.
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Unlikely? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
From my perspective, enforcing those policies would be entirely within their mandate.
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's about the extent of what they can do given the terms, but given how few options there are for internet connectivity, it's a fairly serious threat.
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
The terms are there to protect the ISP from lawsuit when the client gets sued by a copyright holder - it's not a mandate to become the police.
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They probably do. I can't claim to have read the terms recently, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that kind of clause in there. In -1pt, I'm sure, but that's beside the point.
Of course, this kind of thing is the fundamental basis for net neutrality laws or lack thereof, and the idea of being a common carrier. Do we just spit out bits and have no responsibility for what those bits form, or do we give ourselves the
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"If you use our service to break the law, we'll disconnect you" is likely a valid, legally binding contract clause.
Re:Unlikely? (Score:4, Informative)
"If you use our service to break the law, we'll disconnect you" is likely a valid, legally binding contract clause.
It's unlikely that that is a valid, legally binding contract clause.
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Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Once they start down that road, its only a matter of time before someone sues them for something that came through their network. I mean, it's not so far-fetched to have a class action suit against a provider for allowing crackers to run mass automated remote exploits on their network...If I can recognize them on my end, then they should be able to recognize them on the network. Hell, that's trivial beside trying to determine whether someone is downloading kiddy porn or lol cats.
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The only problem with that is of course that they rarely work together well. Somebody is always waiting to pick up the monthly subscribers
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Out of curiosity, are you based in Europe? Even given the seemingly downward spiral of American rights or expression, I believe that hate speech is still legal here, and not at all deserving of being lumped with child-porn in a list of no-nos.
I know of several future lawyers who spend a lot of time on the net researching fringe movements and their psychology. A ban on the transmission of the hateful speech of these fringe gr
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
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You're making the flawed assumption that for anything agreed to in a contract, any circumstancial evidence or means of verifying it is implicitly ok. Just because the contract with my landlord says I can't do certain things doesn't mean he can set up video surveilance in the apartment or lock himself in and search it any time he wants to. Some random guy on the street can't get me evicted just by making an accusation. The ISPs don't know, don't want to know, shouldn't know and what you're seeing is nothing
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So thats 15% who go ahead and give their CC number after we have told them to stop.
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Doh!
Teens are afraid of their parents (Score:2, Funny)
From: ISP
To: Teen
CC: Parents
Subject: We know what you did last Summer
Dear Teen, we know you've been pirating music. The people who make the music you love so much want you to know PIRACY IS THEFT!!!! If this doesn't stop we will have no choice but to SICK THEIR LAWYERS ON YOU!!!
--snip--
Later that day:
Mom: Susy, we have to talk. We don't care if you spend all night online with your 35 year old boyfriend who sends you dirty pictures, but this piracy thing stops NOW or no more Internet for you!
Susy
Reading the data another way... (Score:5, Insightful)
When broken down by who's paying the bills, an obvious trend emerges: People who have to answer to Mom and Dad as to why nobody in the family can get their email anymore are generally more likely to change their behavior than people can just buy another throwaway account.
But (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, there is a lot of illegally distributed-content. That's a given. What's not a given is how the ISPs (or indeed, anybody) is supposed to distinguish between the two at all reliably. Without a mechanism for that, the whole thing is moot.
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Do you know that is true or are you making that up (Score:2)
For illicit use to be a declining share legitimate use would have to be growing (in absolute terms) faster than illicit use and that sounds highly unlikely to me.
Suggestive question (Score:5, Insightful)
Did they also asked: "Would you stop your perfectly legal activity, when reprimanded by your ISP?"?
Or: "Do you think it is right, that your ISP should monitor your activity on the internet?"
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On top of that, the email I received didn't even directly implicate me. Basically they suggested I "secure my wireless connection".
I believe, at least with Speakea
Re:Suggestive question (Score:4, Informative)
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Teenagers (Score:3, Interesting)
Because teenagers are more likely to feel they can't live without the internet. Older internet users may have been on it longer, but can remember a time when they easily lived without it.
is this the internets version of speeding (Score:4, Interesting)
Just like with speeding. You get pulled over, maybe you get off with a warning, maybe you get a fine and points (In the UK 12 points on your license and you lose it for a time), or maybe you get off with a warning. Either way you are more aware for a while - then you're back to your old habits.
Will downloading P2P copyrighted material be the same?
You get a warning, stop for a while (maybe change ISPs, so the new one doesn't have a record of your "offence") and then drift back to your old behaviour.
If this is a good analogy (comments?) is there really any way to stop it completely - or do people just expect to punish the most blatant offenders and keep everyone else, more or less, under control?
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The thing is, you can download all the copyrighted material your HDs can possibly hold and no-one will really get hurt.
If all that happened from my driving 125mph on the interstate was that some execs at Sony BMG lost a couple of bucks... man I'd go buy a Z06 and drive 175mph across the country fifty times!
Speeding doesn't kill, stupid drivers do. (Score:2)
Alexander Roy beat the record for the Cannonball Run while hitting up to 160 mph and averaging 90 mph and yet did it all completely safely.
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Let's say everyone on a free way is driving 100mph when the speed limit is 70mph. What is the safer speed to drive: 70mph ? Or 100mph ?
Of course that might not be a fair example since if EVERYONE was speeding you don't really risk getting pulled over.
But the point is that driving fast does not necessarily mean driving dangerously. If you're alert, matching traffic, keeping your eye on the road and leaving adequate space between you and other vehicles you can drive quite fast and still
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Re:is this the internets version of speeding (Score:5, Insightful)
In any case it's not the place of the ISPs to impose a (flawed) version of morality on anyone, just like it's not the place of the phone company to monitor my phone conversations for possible illegal or immoral content.
Profit (Score:2)
Interesting idea there, as it turns enforcement from an expense into a profit center, just like banks and credit card companies who make big bucks from overdraft charges and late fees.
And if the points add up and you lose your account, then what? Most people only have a few choices as to DSL or cable providers. Having a 6-month hold on any data lines to your house could be a major disruption.
But I think they'd like the idea of just slapping a $100 per-occurrence fine
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The page you are viewing has a copyright. It was downloaded so your browser can display it. Some vendor's pamphlets could carry copyright yet the vendor wants as many downloaded as possible. The problem exists with copyrighted material that was never authorized for free distribution.
Downloading isn't even the real issue. The copyright violation on some piece of music occurred when it was copi
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PeerGuardian is a great start. It blocks a CRAPLOAD if the Riaa,mpaa and BSA rats and is updated daily.
Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
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Technical Question #2: (assuming that #1 has a solution) What do you when <big corporate customer> calls and complains that their IT staff can't use SSH to connect to the web server from home and must, instead, spend 30 minutes driving to the office on a Sunday morning at 2am to figure out why it's not responding ?
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"What do you when calls and complains that their IT staff can't use SSH to connect to the web server from home...."
Like I said, torrent traffic is a different pattern. An SSH connection is a steady link to a
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There are plenty of legitimate uses for torrent type P2P traffic - and if anything, this will only increase.
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Most of the parasites are there because they can get content for "free". If, however, they're now paying out of their own pocket for everyone else to get free content, I'd be willing to bet t
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By the time you'd managed to download from the hundred seeds, you'll have probably provided 30 or 40 distros worth of material. Maybe more. That would soon add up to a not-so-trivial amount, meaning that people would soon be stopping acting as seeds. This would mean the availability may ju
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Isn't this what they are doing now?
Commandment 11, Don't Get Caught (Score:3, Insightful)
it was further found (Score:5, Insightful)
get clue, riaatards. the game is over. you lose. your business model is dead, and cannot be extended with legions of lawyers
More like... (Score:5, Interesting)
70%? and for how long? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to get paid for your stuff, you better make sure all those that would pay for it legally have the option to...
case in point...regions on dvds. If say a blockbuster movie was released in DVD in the US but not in, say, ASIA...do you really think everyone of that 70% (that wanted it) will wait for it to be released?
The media groups need to embrace 'online'. They need to release product 'online'. They need to market it 'online'. They need to get everyone so hooked on getting their information 'online' that people 'offline' are looked at as pathetic. Then the media groups can release to the world...launch Ad campaigns to the world...and never have to worry about this region stuff again!
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Mass warning-spam in 3, 2, 1... (Score:3, Interesting)
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Oh goodie!
That means my ISP would be giving me a rebate check on part of my bill, right?
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the boy who cried "wolf" (Score:2)
The first time you receive this email you might think a bit, but after that if you get it againa and again, I doubt you'd pay any attention. I dout this would have much effect after the first or second generations - no matter how much more threatening they made subsequent emails.
Response to the EU Commission (Score:5, Interesting)
Response to Commission from Pirate Party leader [falkvinge.com]
(the first few lines is a preamble in Swedish, followed by the actual letter in English.)
In short, this does not deal with copyrights and culture anymore. It deals with the cost to society of enforcing today's copyright. That cost involves the abolition of the messenger immunity, freedom of the press, and private communications as a concept.
No right exists in a vacuum - there is always a cost to society of enforcing that right. Without a proper cost-to-benefit analysis, no informed decision can be made.
When the warning comes, I would have questions... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Yes I have been using P2P, but I have been torrenting legal stuff like unlicensed media and free software. So why the warning ?
2. Could you please give me the reasons as to why you think I am downloading illegal content ?
3. Could you please show me the logs which show I have downloaded illegal content ?
4. What are the methods you have followed to come to the conclusion that the stuff I am downloading is illegal ?
If the ISP has valid answers for my questions, I will have no choice but to comply. It after all, is the law. The answers however, I would need.
Source? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a self proclaimed British Media Expert, and I can hereby announce that a credible source has revealed to me that 85% of artists think privacy and free speech is more important than profit.
Sorry, but based on previous events "media lawyer" is not something which smells particularly credible.
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Hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe in a less independantly minded country 70% is the case, but on this side of the pond the best response you will get is laughter.
Whoever posted this article, thanks for a much needed laugh.
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well then (Score:2, Funny)
Some of us pirate to help the current Music and Movie industries implode quicker
Re:well then (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of us pirate to help the current Music and Movie industries implode quicker
Too bad pirating something you never would have bought does about $0 in economic damages.
What was your media budget pre-internet? That's about as much damage as you can inflict regardless of how much you piss off your ISP.
Re:well then (Score:5, Funny)
Stupid Statistics (Score:5, Funny)
Where's the tag? (Score:2)
C'mon people! You're dropping the ball here!
well, that's easy (Score:2)
I stopped sharing... (Score:2)
I would stop 70% of my downloading... (Score:2, Insightful)
Ed
Stealing from Bull Durham (Score:2)
I wouldn't (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this an unexpected trend? (Score:2)
I wouldn't (Score:2)
Poor Association (Score:5, Insightful)
50% of all statistics are made up (Score:2)
I did! (Score:2)
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70% (Score:2)
ISPs are rather aware of the fact that P2P is the main reason for many people to have broadband. They will fight like tigers against complying.
Say Versus Do (Score:5, Insightful)
i'm missing the part where.... (Score:2)
For how long? (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of folks stop speeding for a while after they get a warning from a cop. Virtually none of them stop speeding forever.
Most people stopped using the networks which got downed, and if there's a high chance of getting caught using a particular service then yeah they're going to stop, but with encrypted connections, and the general fact that ISP's will only do what they're forced to by law or which benefits their bottom line, and you're probably looking at a pretty low number of people actually getting caught, so you're looking at pretty low risk.
I know the brits tend to have a please sir give me some more attitude when it comes to government shafting(or so it seems lately, though the US isn't much better), but this seems rather silly.
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P2P traffic patterns just say you're doing P2P, not what you're sharing with peers. Plenty of legitimate applications use P2P (Skype, iPlayer, 4oD, not to mention legal BitTorrent sources).
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Or have you never heard of the concepts of 'trade secrets' and 'industrial espionage'?
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And if removing 5% of users like you results in 50% more bandwidth to dish out to commercial customers who pay waaay more than you do, in the end, on a spreadsheet, it's a net win for the provider. They won.
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Yay capitalism!
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