Driver's License to be the Next Debit Card 394
prostoalex writes "Your US driver's license has a magnetic stripe with unique ID in it, and your debit card carries a magnetic stripe with account information on it, so why not link the two together and allow people to use their driver's licenses as debit cards? That's precisely what a young company National Payment Card is doing in select locations, according to Business Week: 'Gas-station owners are pleased with the program too. Because NPC processes the payment as an e-check with the Automated Clearing House (ACH), a network most commonly used for direct deposits, participating retailers bypass credit card companies such as Visa and Mastercard.'"
So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Funny)
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Oh, I'm sure there will be other results from the mishmash as well. Such as your interest rate going up if you get a ticket (I give the legislators just a little time to come up with that one.)
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What makes you think they'll limit this to a debit card? Credit cards are basically a license to mint money, debit cards aren't. So which do you think this idea will end up with? Remember: If they tie your license - a government issued thing - to your finances, you'll end up with the worst of both worlds. It's always that way.
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Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just what I always wanted.
Oh, and now someone can make counterfeit licenses that double as fake debit cards.
Nah, no problems here.
Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:4, Insightful)
How is the government colluding in this? Near as I can tell, it's just private enterprise.
Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus there are all these benefits:
1) You can identify where people are at all times
2) You can track every purchase everyone ever makes and where they make it
3) You can use the above to profile almost every action and behavior of every individual
4) You can shut off the ability to buy anything for alleged criminals and political dissidents
Sounds like a great idea. I only hope we can continue to move in that direction even faster.
Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Funny)
Then how could we tell the Manticore transgenics apart from everyone else?
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Plus there are all these benefits...
You forgot the most important one: the cost of implementing the national ID card will be measured in millions, possibly billions, and for the power elite who control government, spending tax money is simply good business.
There's a reason why the US government of today dwarfs the US government of only 50, let alone 100 years ago, both in revenue and power over the people -- and it's not because making government bigger is unprofitable for those in the business of gove
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Re:So when your license is overdrawn... (Score:2)
And if it's overdrawn you shold only be allowed to drive to and from work.
"Your US driver's license" (Score:5, Insightful)
I see where this is going: National ID, financial account ... next is it medical data stored on same card?
Heck, this card will be TOO important! What if it is lost! Why, I can't be identified, buy or sell, get health care... you'd better just tattoo the damn number on my arm and forehead.
No, thanks.
Re:"Your US driver's license" (Score:5, Funny)
They are going to implant it into our right hand.
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Re:"Your US driver's license" (Score:5, Funny)
Ahhh... since if they implanted it into the left, the action could be seen as sinister.
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You cant use (regular) debit cards online (Score:2)
A person certainly can use their debit cards online, I have.
FalconRe: (Score:2, Funny)
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Doesn't freeze account. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope.
When your license is suspended it doesn't keep you from using it as ID. It just keeps you from driving legally.
All this system is doing is using your license as an ID to look up your account in the e-check processing service's database. This keeps on working until the service decides to stop accepting that particular license as ID. (Probably when it expires and/or is replaced with a new one.)
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Re:So when your license is suspended... (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds Neat (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not for me, but I can see where some people would like this. One less card to carry around and potentially lose.
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id checks (Score:2)
I process cards for customers every day that have 'ask for id' in big letters on them. It is the card owner's way of making it harder for a thief to use his card.
My card says "check id", however even when sales clerks look at it, which is rare, they rarely ever ask. I rarely even had my id checked when I wrote checks. And the thing is is where I used to live, even those who knew you still checked your id.
FalconRe: (Score:3, Insightful)
MasterCard's Merchant agreement says:
If the card is not signed, the card acceptor must:
obtain an authorization from the issuer, and
ask the cardholder to provide identification (but not record the cardholder
identification information), and
require the cardholder to sign the card.
The card acceptor must not complete the transaction if the cardholder refuses
to sign the card.
Writing "ASK For I.D." or "See I.D." or "CID" is NOT a signature. A signature matc
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No one is supposed to check for a photo ID for (Score:2)
Mastercard or Visa.
I don't know about Mastercards but with VISA cards Visa doesn't require id checks for purchases under $25, or is it $50, but they do require it over this.
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Re:Sounds Neat (Score:5, Informative)
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular
card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for
merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or
phone number, on a sales receipt.
-Pg 29, Rules for Visa Merchants--Card Acceptance and Chargeback Management Guidelines
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If someone says "papers, please," I expect them to have a badge, a gun, and probable cause.
Sadly we've gotten away from that in several areas, but on my more optimistic days I still think there's some small chance of fixing it without another Revolution. Guess we'll see.
id checks (Score:2)
And in America we find this creepy.
If someone says "papers, please," I expect them to have a badge, a gun, and probable cause.
I live in the US and it bothers me when I am not asked for my id when I use my credit card or write a check. While I don't like having to show id when I'm out somewhere but not buying something and using a credit card or check, I hate the thought someone can mess up my credit. Someone could steal my card, or could apply for credit using my name and screw my credit reports.
There are better ways to do that. (Score:2)
Drivers licenses aren't that hard to fake, particularly when you only need to get it past a store clerk who isn't really trained to inspect them and probably doesn't care that much anyway. (When's the last time you've ever had your signature questioned? There's a page around where a guy signed CC slips with increasingly ridiculous things, and never got stopped.) Add in a lot
File a complaint if they demand ID! (Score:5, Informative)
Remember: if you try to buy something with your Visa, but they won't let you because you won't show your ID, you can file a complaint against the merchant by calling (800) VISA-911. So far I've never had to make the call, just had to threaten it.
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I don't sign my credit cards; they are marked "please ask for ID" on the signature line.
Seriously, are you that lazy that you can't provide an ID when you use a credit card? You've already gone into your wallet to get the card, why not pull out your license while
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While this may have been true years ago, now this is simply false - read your cardholder agreement. Many banks, including Wachovia (the one whose rep I've heard doing this), actually recommend writing the words "See ID" if you wish additional verification on charges.
And why wouldn't they? With credit cards,
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Just downloaded seconds ago from VISA.com:
""See ID" Some customers write "See ID" or "Ask for ID" in the signature panel, thinking
that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not
on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don't take
the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a
theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you
not to look at the back of the card and
id theft (Score:3, Informative)
I wouldn't worry about credit cards when worrying about identity theft. What's much more difficult to track is loan applications made in your name,
You wouldn't worry about credit cards when it comes to id theft? Hell, it's easy and getting easier to get a credit card in someone else's name. And when they do, you don't get a bill from the credit card issuer unless whoever got it used your address. However it can and will come back to haunt you.
What's much more difficult to track is loan applications
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http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF/MERC-Entire_M anual.pdf [mastercard.com]
Check page 71 under Acceptance Procedures for Purchase Transactions where it says
************
For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official governmen
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wont work every where (Score:2, Interesting)
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Linearly encoded (greyscale or color) information instead of color/no-color encoded information. Slope encoding. Fuzzy encoding. Charge or field encoding (linear only, of course.) 1D binary digital is more convenient by far than analog (or systems like trinary and upwards, 2D and upwards) but analog isn't out of the question, either.
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bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like to be the first to say this is a really bad idea.
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Re:bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sorry, you're going to have to take your place in line behind all the people who think RealID is a bad idea. This just isn't quite as bad, as yet. These ideas are all very much along the same lines. They are all about consolidation of your resources, identification, and risks, and that is a bad idea in general for your safety, your privacy and your liberties.
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Translation: "This isn't raping your rectum any more than it already is already raped."
The problem is that the government shouldn't be tracking me to begin with. There's nothing inherently wrong with this kind of credit card combo, but with government out of control it's as stupid as tattooing a bullseye on your butt in the county jail.
Re:bad idea (Score:4, Interesting)
I want a card with my driver's license, my grocery store card, my debit card, my work ID, my AAA card, and every other damn thing cluttering my account all on one card. And I want an electronic device, too, that has my cell phone, my garage door opener, my car remote, my mp3 player, and any other little bullshit electronic device on it.
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What would be interesting to know is how much information about you is kept on that magnetic strip? I imagine the licensing office only has some sort of binary hash on there that can be read as a straight number and applied to a debit account, seeing how each number would be unique. So even if someone managed to swipe that data, they'd still just have a u
They say... (Score:2)
Just what we need. More interconnected national databases...
Identity theft is a bad enough problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Give out name and address to complete strangers who work cash registers
2. Get identity stolen
3. Profit (for identity thieves).
Well, at least it fills in that elusive second step.
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First step towards National ID (Score:5, Insightful)
As of today, driver's licenses and ID cards are state-specific. Layout, extra features (barcode, magnetic strip), anti-forgery techniques, etc are all decided on a state-by-state basis. If you move to a different state, you need to get a new license from that state within a certain amount of time (usually it's within a few weeks of establishing permanent residence). In order to roll out a nation-wide license-as-debit card program, either states will have to standardize on specific extra features like a magentic strip and what information is stored there, or licensing will have to be handled by the federal government.
As a believer in states' rights, this looks like nothing more than an end-run around opposition to a national ID program. If they can get people hooked on using their license as a debit card, nobody will object when the fed steps in to take control of licensing to make it "more efficient".
You don't have to roll it out nationwide (Score:2)
US Driver's license??? (Score:2)
I don't know anyone with a "US" driver's license. I have a Virginia driver's license. Hopefully it will stay that way.
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You haven't been paying attention [wikipedia.org], have you? The role of a driver's license to simply prove that someone has the requisite expertise to operate a motor vehicle are long gone. Now the federal Department of Homeland Security mandates what states put in the cards, and you'll be required to show your national ID whenever you fly or enter a federal building.
Re:US Driver's license??? (Score:5, Informative)
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It happened to me. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It happened to me. (Score:5, Informative)
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so why not link the two together (Score:5, Insightful)
Shall we enumerate some of the problems?
Suspended/surrendered license = no money
Hacked debit card = hacked license
numerous swipes = worn card + license. I'd rather not deal with the DMV any more than absolutely required.
What is the benefit for me? Nada.
No fucking way... (Score:2, Interesting)
I refuse to use debit cards at all (as opposed to an ATM card or a credit card), because they draw directly from your account and they don't require an independent piece of verification (like a PIN) to use.
But this? This is even worse. At least a debit card can be cancelled in the event it's stolen, even though by then it may be too late. How are you going to cancel your driver's license when the DMV is only open Monday through Friday 8-5?
It's even worse if it makes use of the RFID chip that's e
You misunderstand the system: (Score:4, Insightful)
Now that depends on the debit card, doesn't it?
There's nothing to prevent this company, or one like it, from requiring a PIN to transact business when you identify via driver's license.
At least a debit card can be cancelled in the event it's stolen, even though by then it may be too late. How are you going to cancel your driver's license when the DMV is only open Monday through Friday 8-5?
By calling the "card stolen" hotline of N.P.C. and telling them to disconnect your license from your bank account.
Your driver's license is just being used as a key to a database. It's another way to go from a piece of plastic in your pocket to your name and account number - after that it's E-checks on your account with the E-check processing company.
The only real issue I see with this (besides people reading personal data off the plastic) is if the state doesn't make some distinction in the data on the license between a lost/stolen one and the replacement. Without that, once you've had ONE license lost or stolen you can't turn such a service back on for your new driver's license without re-enabling it for the missing one. (Of course you can change the PIN - presuming a PIN is required to use the service.)
make drivers license a target? (Score:2)
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Biggest Colossal Mistake (Score:4, Insightful)
Without the end-user being able to revoke a stolen card, the whole system is worth squat, security-wise.
And none of that clear-text personalized info on the magstrip, thank you very much, NO!
Won't work in Michigan; We use Soundex (Score:5, Interesting)
We use a system that combines soundex codes with date of birth. You can find anyones michigan driver's license number if you know:
First name, Middle Name, Last name, Month of Birth, year of birth.
If you're from michigan, get out your driver's license and see for yourself.
http://www.highprogrammer.com/cgi-bin/uniqueid/dl
There are only a few times where it might be a few numbers off. If you happen to share a first name middle name last name month of birth and year of birth, then the last 3 numbers will be off by 1. Besides that, this works really well.
This is great for catching fake ID's. None of the fake ID's bother to calculate the right number. Most bouncers who police doors are familiar enough with the codes to flag fakes quite easily.
It's already to easy... (Score:2, Offtopic)
What possibl
MultiPass! (Score:2)
Pay the Speeding Ticket Immediately? (Score:5, Insightful)
Err... wouldn't that mean that you could pay a traffic fine immediately? Which translates to:
"Do you really want your state government having easy access to your bank account?"
"How fast will the state legislature pass a law requiring the immediate and direct payment of fines via the license/debit card?"
"A hold has been placed on your account for the amount of the fine. The hold will be removed if you are found innocent. Your court date is in 30 days."
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I think Ohio already did this -- credit card machines connected to cell phones in highway patrol cars. If you were from out of state, you could either pay it, or wait to go in front of a judge and post bail. Guess which option most people chose?
-b.
What is the actual purpose? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think debit cards and driver's licenses should be combined simply because you usually don't carry that many of such cards anyway. What most of us hate is - this problem is applied to women in particular - all the shopping cards people collect. These are the cards that need to be combined into one configurable card, so that people can have only three useful cards. One for shopping discounts, one driver's license and one debit card. But combining them is kind of pointless.
Also, other side effects include situations like not being able to give your husband/wife/daughter/son/xyz your debit card to use at the ATM machine, simply because it is too risky to lend someone a driver's license AND a debit card.
Do away with paper money altogether (Score:2)
Progression (Score:4, Insightful)
Hey lets make our drivers licences national ID Cards
Hey lets make everyone in the World have ID cards that can be used as money which makes a world currency
Hey we're too lazy to carry cards anymore, lets have a microchip imbedded in everyone.
Doubleplusungood. (Score:2, Informative)
Am I the only one that see's this as a way for Big Brother to have absolute, total power over your buying/spending abilities? The people that worried about bar codes and now RFID are probably shitty fuzzy spiders over this concept.
I'll refuse to accept this bullshit concept, period.
Cash is King.
ACH network has no consumer protections (Score:5, Insightful)
This is very bad.
When you use a credit card, you get fantastic levels of consumer protection. By law, you're liable for at most $50 of bad transactions on your credit card, and most of the major payment backbones (Visa, Mastercard, etc) have reduced that to $0 liability over the Internet. There's no burden to reporting the charges as bad - you report the charges and go on with your life and you get a bright shiny new card in the mail in a few days.
On the ACH network, it's very different - it's like you're writing checks (the ACH network is used to settle checks). In other words, you're limited to the laws protecting you from bad checks, which puts the burden on you to prove that the charges did not come from you. Recovery of the money can be a nightmare, which can only be mitigated by the policies of your bank. The law offers you very little protection. Some banks are very good about this, others won't lift a finger to help you unless it's required by law.
Debit cards are bad, but at least their widespread use have made banks familiar with the issues. This is much, much worse.
Hello Officer (Score:5, Funny)
Universities do it (Score:2, Interesting)
Stay away from Debit cards anyway (Score:4, Interesting)
A Better Idea (Score:5, Interesting)
RFID Entry key (With an actual battery it can be truly secure)
Debit/Credit Card (Same deal, different implementation)
Driver's Liscence/ID
Etc. Etc. Etc...
I should have to type in a PIN or something to spend money. You can already deactivate phone immediately if they are lost or stolen, so that's not really an issue. I'm sure this is the way things are headed.
University ID (Score:3, Interesting)
The University of Minnesota already does this with their student ID cards [umn.edu]. Not quite the same, but I still don't like it, as it makes the ID itself less useful. Policies then restrict what can be done with the card, and you end up having special cards for other functions (like, say, checking out a music practice room key card) because no one is allowed to keep the student ID because it's an ATM card. So, it really doesn't even result in fewer cards.
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That may be true, but a debit card only gives access to your draught account, not your savings. I, for one, rarely keep more than a couple of hundred dollars in my draught account, due to the better interest paid by the savings. In the event of writing a large cheque, I make a transfer into the draught account to cover it.
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