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Posting Porn Link Judged Unlawful in Hong Kong 146

Posted by Zonk from the touchy-on-titilation dept.
hkxforce writes "Can you imagine posting a link to a website that would get you arrested by the police? In Hong Kong, a middle-age man has been heavily fined for posting a porn link in an adult discussion forum. 'A court in the Kwun Tong district of the city heard that Woo provided a hyperlinked message on the forum which, when clicked, would enable other forum users to access an overseas pornographic website showing the photos. But Internet Society chairman Charles Mok Nai-kwong said the court case raised several concerns. 'In this case, the court has given a new direction to the public concerning the responsibility of internet users,' he said. Mok added that he also believed the case could damage the freedom of information on the internet. 'This man posted a link on the internet which now becomes an act that constitutes the breaking of law, and my question is whether a link is being regarded as the 'obscene article,'' he said.'"
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Posting Porn Link Judged Unlawful in Hong Kong More

Posting Porn Link Judged Unlawful in Hong Kong

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  • How about flooding the forum in question with, let's say goatse links posted by users registered from outside the courts juridiction?

  • red light district? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by polar red ( 215081 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @05:35AM (#19094469)
    Is telling someone the correct way to the red light district also illegal then ?

    • Methinks slashdot would do good to provide a "-10 on first post" option.

      I wonder if even a car analogy could be worse than this one. The two situations are different on so many levels. In the story, the man offered information that nobody asked for, it was in a public forum, and the the information made the provocative material very accessible. In your example, one would expect the guy was explicitly asked, it was in a private conversation, and the stuff probably requires a bit of effort to get to (at leas

      • In the story, the man offered information that nobody asked for

        I have to ask because TFA doesn't say, so how do you know if no one asked for the links? Are you a member of the forum?

        the the information made the provocative material very accessible

        Being on the net, it's already readily accessible. Now whether it can be easily found is another matter, but obviously the person who posted the links found them.

        People didn't ask for it

        Again, how do you know no one asked for it?

        Falcon

        • Good point, I should be more careful in the future. However, there's still a significant difference between answering such a question in private and answering it in a public forum.

    • Is telling someone the correct way to the red light district also illegal then ?

      Not in the states at least. Telling someone how to descrable CSS is though.

  • CSI (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ohreally_factor ( 593551 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @05:43AM (#19094493) Journal
    So when can we expect to see CSI: Goatse Victims Unit?
  • So it's OK to post a link to a non-porn site that posted a porn link? Like this link [slashdot.org]?

  • Yes, I can. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Chris_Jefferson ( 581445 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @06:10AM (#19094571) Homepage
    Can you imagine posting a link to a website that would get you arrested by the police?

    Yes I can. If I posted a link to hard-core snuff porn on a primary school web-forum, it wouldn't suprise me. In my world of analogises, that would be like walking into a primary school and handing the stuff out on DVDs, and I'd hope most people would want that to be an offence.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      walking into a primary school and handing the stuff out on DVDs, and I'd hope most people would want that to be an offence.

      God, what is it with you americans and sex. Why is it dangerous to see two people have sex, but it is perfectly OK to see people be beaten up, maimed and killed??

      Handing out DVDs in a school is, and should not be, a criminal offence. That is ludicrous.

      I don't know how repressed you were as a kid, but when I grew up, 10 year olds were reading pr0n on paper. They were just curious and i

      • Re:Yes, I can. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Chris_Jefferson ( 581445 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @07:05AM (#19094767) Homepage
        1) I'm not American
        2) I said "snuff film" which a) is people begin killed and b) I really hope you weren't watchin when you were at school.

        • 1) I'm not American
          2) I said "snuff film" which a) is people begin killed and b) I really hope you weren't watchin when you were at school.
          You forgot:
          3) Does not really exist

          Meanwhile, shame on you for wanting to criminalize what is essentially a terms of service/contractual violation.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I'm Canadian and when I was in junior-high I had a friend from Romania. His mom would give him playboy magazines for his birthday. We all thought she was the coolest mom ever.

      • God, what is it with you americans and sex. Why is it dangerous to see two people have sex, but it is perfectly OK to see people be beaten up, maimed and killed??>

        Because there is a vocal minority of prudes and Christian Talibans. Much like what they do to people that have sex outside of marriage in Iran, there are some Christians who want to stone people to death for having any sex outside of heterosexual sex in marriage.

        I don't know how repressed you were as a kid, but when I grew up, 10 year ol

    • Pron != Murder (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nymz ( 905908 )

      If I posted a link to hard-core snuff porn

      That would be illegal because murder is illegal. If you were to dress up as Mickey Mouse and tell children to go out and kill for Allah, that would be bad because murder is bad, not Mickey Mouse. Though I could understand the confusion. :)

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mikiN ( 75494 )
        If you were to dress up as G.I.Joe and tell children to go out and kill for Jesus, that would be bad because murder is bad, not G.I.Joe. Though I could understand the confusion, more so if the G.I.Joe guy happens to be an Army recruitment officer.

  • so what happens when... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Phil246 ( 803464 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @06:12AM (#19094575)
    someone posts a link to a perfectly innocent thing; the host for which later either changes the image maliciously or as a result of a security breach into something forbidden.
    Would they hold the person who posted the link at fault then?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by iknownuttin ( 1099999 )
      someone posts a link to a perfectly innocent thing; the host for which later either changes the image maliciously or as a result of a security breach into something forbidden.

      On the other hand, if someone intentionally posts a link to kiddie porn or to some hate site, they can use the excuse of "I didn't say anything, I just posted a link!"

      The same would go here on /.. If I posted a link that just abused Apple or Linux users, I would be modded "Flamebait" or "Troll" even though I wasn't the one who actual

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by aussie_a ( 778472 )
        a) Hate sites should be legal. As much as despise whats spouted, I believe in freedom of speech. b) Comparing it with posting a link to child porn would only be correct if normal porn is illegal.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by bheer ( 633842 )
          And you'll be surprised how this ISN'T the case throughout much of the world. Most Americans take it for granted, but it's pretty much an American innovation. Even liberal European democracies reserve very broad powers to curb speech in the name of a vaguely defined "public order". And you should hear Germans on how Nazi speech should be curbed (I wonder if they're really that afraid of neo-Nazis, or are they trying to suppress a rather painful national nightmare).

          And even though some people claim that ther

          • And you'll be surprised how this ISN'T the case throughout much of the world.

            Actually as an Australian I understand this. In Australia we don't have constitutionally protected free speech. We instead have laws that define what we can't say and everything is fair game. And your dead right on other places around the world (heck, even Canada I believe) banning hate speech. Perhaps because there is nothing stopping my government from enacting such laws is why I'm more for free speech then I would be otherwise.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by bheer ( 633842 )
              I could be wrong, but if I'd guess what keeps free speech going in England and Australia (and Canada) is Anglo-Saxon culture. Historically Britain always had the local wit and court jesters saying the most inconvenient things, and that I believe made it into judicial attitudes in a bottom-up sort of way, as judges became increasingly reluctant to ban any sort of expression on moral grounds (e.g. the case of the band on Lady Chatterley's Lover).

              It's interesting to look at countries like Germany or India, whi

        • Hate sites should be legal. As much as despise whats spouted, I believe in freedom of speech

          ie, "while I disagree and hate what you say, I defend your right to say it." Instead of oulawing hate speech it needs to be countered with facts.

          Falcon
    • I dunno, I've only had the reverse happen.

      - RG>

  • Where would something like that happen...? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by julesh ( 229690 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @06:22AM (#19094627)

    Can you imagine posting a link to a website that would get you arrested by the police?


    Yes. [wikipedia.org]
    • What was really random, was I just read that article because of something completely unrelated. Weird.
    • That would be getting arrested for disobeying a court order. Don't conflate, the context was getting arrested for a simple link (like, out of the blue), not for links explicitely cited by court.

  • Ain't surprised. (Score:3, Informative)

    by GomezAdams ( 679726 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @06:56AM (#19094737)
    Remember this is in Communist China. The press loves to tell us that China is now post-communism since it allows citizens to own businesses. There is still only one political party there, they have very strict policies against just about everything. And very strict punishments for all the offenses. And anything can be considered a crime if you cross the local CCP representatives. There is very little of what most of the rest of the world consider to be basic personal rights allowed there. Sure they can earn and make more money than before but the economy is still centrally controlled and the government has it's hand in the till to build up it's military and maintain it. The People's Liberation Army is there to keep it's citizens in line (Tianamen Square), not to keep people out of the country who want to enjoy having their lives being controlled and being threatened with punishment for just about any action we take for granted. The Chinese do not have freedom of press, speech, religion, freedom to gather in groups unless it is approved, due process of law, and ownership of anything can be revoked by the Communist at any time for any reason.

    Remember this when you buy all that cheap Chinese stuff at the stores that it is helping to maintain what is in fact a slave nation.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Watson Ladd ( 955755 )
      They are not communist or socialist anymore. They are keeping the name, but betraying the principles. "From each according to ability, to each according to DEED" lasted for about 1 day after the revolution in China.
    • Hong Kong is autonomous of China.

    • Re:Ain't surprised. (Score:5, Informative)

      by erbmjw ( 903229 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @07:35AM (#19094947)
      Not really -- they are in semi-autonomous Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_administrativ e_region_(People's_Republic_of_China)#High_degree_ of_autonomy [wikipedia.org]

      Currently, the two SARs of Hong Kong and Macau are responsible for all issues except acts of state like diplomatic relations and national defence: consequently, they have their own judiciaries and courts of final appeal, their own legislature, immigration policies, currencies and extradition processes. The pre-existing legal systems, namely common law in Hong Kong and Portuguese law in Macau, are preserved except consequential to establishment of courts of final appeal. With listed exceptions, national laws applying in the mainland do not apply in a SAR. These listed exceptions must involve diplomacy, national defence or something beyond the scope of the SAR's autonomy.


      The laws of Hong Kong are based on a mixture of British law and Chinese law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_of_Hong_Kon g [wikipedia.org]

      IANAL --- but I did live in Hong Kong for a while trust me in Hong Kong you want to buy/rent/watch porn or go to a strip club to see naked women -- no significant problems.
      • And when you walk around the red-light district, you would see clients roll up in their Rolls Royces or Mercedes, and a kind gentlemen would go to all of them and cover up the license plates with a piece of velvet cloth while they are patronizing their favorite businesses.

        Or so I was told.

    • Re:Ain't surprised. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by suv4x4 ( 956391 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @08:05AM (#19095087)

      Remember this is in Communist China.


      Oh right, in Fascist America we beat 'em again by suing people for links as early as 2000, in a case related to our beloved DMCA.

      Don't get me wrong, I don't have a beef with USA, but such remarks piss me off. The label doesn't mean a thing. Communist or Fascist or Democratic, actions speak more than words.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by emilv ( 847905 )
      Communism and democracy is not each others opposites. You can very well have a communist country where you have your right to free speech, where you can choose your leaders and so on.

      • Communism and democracy is not each others opposites. You can very well have a communist country where you have your right to free speech, where you can choose your leaders and so on.

        Well, we're yet to see an example...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by iamacat ( 583406 )
          Sweden, Japan, India... Many countries or provinces have or once had an elected socialist government.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Oligonicella ( 659917 )
        Yes, this can happen in print. In the real world, people who persue democracy are hardly willing to be told all of their work belong to gov and so would either not impliment actual communism or quickly dissassemble it.

        It don't work. Marxists need to get over it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by iamacat ( 583406 )
          Do people enjoy being told that all their work, even their thoughts (intellectual property) belongs to a corporation, which in turn controls the politicians who pass laws to perpetuate this situation?
    • Hong Kong is autonomous and seperately governed from the rest of China last time I checked. I believe it has its own legal system and everything.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by tksh ( 816129 )

      No, this is not Communist China; this is bloody Hong Kong. You know, former colony and now special administrative region with its own law and mini-constitution, you know, based on British common law, you know, where courts swap judges with Australia on multi-year loans.

      I know you have an axe to grind but this isn't the story for you to sneak it in. This is about a judge making a stupid decision and a lot of people in Hong Kong getting worried about the interpretation of old obscenity laws on modern circu

    • Actually, it is not Communist China.

      HK still operates under the British system of courts and Common Law independently of the mainland's judicial system.

    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This is the most moronic statement I've read on Slashdot all month.

      Hong Kong is a seperate, autonomous state of China (and China itself isn't even communist anymore, but that's a seperate topic). Until 2047, it's using Britain's system of law.

      Hong Kong is the freest economy in the world. It's pretty much the biggest finance centre in the world. It upholds free speech and British law. It is not "communist China".

      Although this case is ludicrous and Hong Kong's government should be shamed for it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by renoX ( 11677 )
      >Remember this is in Communist China. The press loves to tell us that China is now post-communism since it allows citizens to own businesses.

      And? Your post suggest that having the freedom to own business is the same as having freedom of press, speech, etc of course those are very different freedom.
      So yes, China is post-communism, it is still a dictatorship governed by a kind of oligarchy.

    • The press loves to tell us that China is now post-communism since it allows citizens to own businesses. There is still only one political party there, they have very strict policies against just about everything

      Ah but China is post communist seeing as how communism [askoxford.com] is an economic system wherein the state owns all property and businesses and controls the markets. However China never was Marxist [m-w.com], which is political as well as economic, as Marxism focused on industrial workers whereas Mao and the Chicoms

    • It's pretty sad that people still get all emotional and jerky when they hear "China" and assume that everything related to "China" is communist, human rights degrading, under militarist rule, and so on.

      Doubly so when Hong Kong gets accused of such sh!t. As others have posted, Hong Kong has a totally separate legal, political and economic system from mainland China, and the fact that you (and many others) couldn't grasp such an idea is a testimony to how much of a feat this is. Listen, after the handover fro
  • I find this very odd - I didn't think that HK had such a strong stance on moral issues, particularly compared with the rest of China (which is very strict.

    When I was in HK a couple of years ago, free weeekly magazines (which you could pick up in coffee shops, etc) carried columns with advice on personal issues, sex, how to get better oral sex from your partner, etc - it was quite explicit. I'm really surprised that posting a link to porn was such a major offence.
    • Indeed the local magazines openly and freely sell sex all over the place in Hong Kong. Even the local non-shrink-wrapped magazines expose local celebs in their toilets, showers, etc., take pictures up their skirts during performances, etc. They also love discussing boob jobs, etc. and other stuff that would be immediately banned in China. Remember... half a MILLION (500,000) people in the past few years demonstrated IN THE STREETS against the local chief executive officer. They got him fired/out. Of course,

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by erbmjw ( 903229 )
      The big problem I have with the article is that they did not tell us what forum he posted the links in.

      While it might have been listed as an "adult" forum did that mean the Hong Kong adult forum equivalent of Good Housekeeping or Hustler? If he posted hardcore porn to the Good Housekeeping type of forum I can see a common law smack down being used against him based on HK decency/obscenity laws

      Anyone know the name of the forum where he posted the links?
      • Very good point... could it have been very hardcore porn, animal porn, or EVEN have underage porn on it?

      • The big problem I have with the article is that they did not tell us what forum he posted the links in.

        Seeing as how the newspaper is located in the UAE, United Arab Emirates, where they've banned Flicker [metafilter.com] because of corrupting photos a link could not be included.

        Falcon
    • Here we have funny laws/regulations which had somehow been enacted at some point in history but nobody cares enough to look at/enforce them.

      If you still remember, our courts convicted a guy posting some movie on a newsgroup using BitTorrent, and the specific clause relied upon for the conviction was some 100 year old provision that have not been used EVER until now. (By the way, I've heard the case is still on appeal, so keep your fingers crossed)

      I'm guessing the abundance of these laws is because of the co
  • So I'm reading the summary: why on earth we have a made up word for this kind of material.

    'Pornographic photos'

    First of all, can photos not be "graphic". Any "sonic photos" you've seen recently or something? So we're left with:

    'Porn photos'

    Why have a made up term for this "porn". Erotic photos seems descriptive enough. Sex photos if they're more explicit.
    Is it because having a special term "porn" makes it sound more evil? "Pornographic" also sounds more scientific, something that could be written in a law.

    S
    • It's Latin: 'porne' means a whore or harlot, so pictures of harlots are called pornography.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by suv4x4 ( 956391 )
        It's Latin: 'porne' means a whore or harlot, so pictures of harlots are called pornography.

        Do you call your dog by its official Latin scientific species name?
        There's apparently a term in place that makes demonization of erotic photos easier.

        It's similar with plenty of other conditions and events. People invent words to put a certain spin on them. There are special words for things that are a "sin" for example. A religious fellow will not tell you that being "gay" is a sin, but it's a sin since being gay mea
        • You'd be suprised. Down here in the Navy we talk about sodomy all the time. And those other mainstays of civilization; rum and the lash.

          More seriously, language patterns have changed. This is quite a bad example as "Sod" and "sodomy" are not commonly used any more, but "bugger" is, or "anal". It just reflects language patterns of a couple of centuries ago. Which would be the rough timeframe of the "Rum, sodomy and the lash" quip.

    • What's the point for the term "porn", you ask?

      If we used the word sex photos, then what about scat porn? Or anal porn? Or gay porn? Or BDSM porn? Or any of thousands of other fetishes? The point of the word porn is to get an overarching umbrella to cover the entire assortment of photographs, movies and literature related to any number of fetishes. It's not just a stupid word - it's a word we use to categorize a huge amount of incredibly diverse material.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )
      The word "pornography" predates photos - and etymologically it's about text rather than images.
  • China's government apparently doesn't realize they are causing a problem on themselves.

    Why spend all the resources to restrict people from viewing porn? So you can then spend all the resources to reduce birth rate.

    Look at the other modern democratic countries: you can watch all the porn you want, and birth rate is so low that most of said countries rely on excessive immigration to keep the population numbers stable.

    There's gotta be a connection here somewhere...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by IkeTo ( 27776 )
      What a billiant example of Slashdotters who don't know the topics he post on. Please point your browser at the following and read the first two paragraph:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_ Kong [wikipedia.org]

      What do you think about it? 0.9? It's less than 1, meaning at least 1 in 10 couples never give birth to any children in their whole life span, the number is likely much more since there are couples giving birth to more than one! According to your theory, now Hong Kong should start criminalizing all

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by suv4x4 ( 956391 )
        What a billiant example of Slashdotters who don't know the topics he post on.

        Billiant? I learn a new word every day. The post is a joke, as such, it can't be considered a reliable source of information. Just like you don't go to The Onion for advice on the actual world news, I suppose.

        Please point your browser at the following and read the first two paragraph:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_ [wikipedia.org] Kong

        I tried to point my browser, but it's really tricky. Can't I just click the link?

    • Birth rate relates to porn? What a ridiculous new theory!

      High birth rate is the result of poverty, low education, and, in China, the must-have-male-offsprings-or-damned-by-ancestors traditions.

      In fact, in modern Chinese cities, the birth rate has been dropping; in Shanghai, it is about below 1.

    • Look at the other modern democratic countries: you can watch all the porn you want, and birth rate is so low that most of said countries rely on excessive immigration to keep the population numbers stable.

      The birthrates in developed countries is low because they are developed not because they allow porn. A nation's birthrate is inversely related to the socio-economic situation of the people. As people enjoy more freedom especially women, ie women's sufferage, they tend to have less children. Raise the

  • Osaka Poice arrests two guys,because they show URLs of pedophilistic websites at their own website [altavista.com].

    Though I have no love for pedophiles,and strongly oppose child abuse...I doubt this arrest is "correct".
    We discussed about this case recently [slashdot.jp]
  • Oy! In other news, you can buy pizza in Italy.

  • Very important detail (Score:3, Interesting)

    by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Saturday May 12, 2007 @09:05AM (#19095433) Homepage
    Did anyone notice the guy posted on an adult board to begin with ? So in Hong Kong, theoretically speaking if you're in a sex shop and you point out one of your favorite DVDs to another customer, would they toss you in the slammer ?
  • "...heavily fined for posting a porn link in an adult discussion forum."

    5000 HongKong dollars equals approx. $650.00 us dollars. Just a shade more than double that of a parking ticket. By HK standards, at least, this is not a 'heavy fine'.
  • You're only posting a link (i.e. saying where to get illegal content) you've got no control over or responsibility for the content itself.
    Is it illegal in Hong Kong just to tell someone where illegal goods are sold? It amounts to the same thing...

    This stupid verdict sets the precedent that anyone sharing a link accepts legal responsibility for all the content. This itself is unworkable. Imagine what happens if you publish a link on a forum to a foreign website that only contains content that is legally acce
  • If a link to porn is illegal, how about a link to a link to porn? If that's illegal, then a link-to-a-link-to-a-link etc. Eventually any link becomes illegal, probably. Is there a way to get from any site to any other only by clicking on links? Probably.

  • ...post the link that got the guy arrested?

    It seems to me that in a forum where adults discuss the case, the answer "should be" no but in a forum where children come to play, the answer "should be" yes.

    There's many practical problems with making these distinctions, and no doubt repressive governments get it wrong all the time, but as a general principle what's the difference between publishing a photo and publishing a link to the photo?

  • Local news and the forum in question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by francium de neobie ( 590783 ) on Saturday May 12, 2007 @02:26PM (#19097881)
    If you can read Chinese, here is the local news entry:
    http://hk.news.yahoo.com/070510/12/276r4.html [yahoo.com]

    The forum in question was inside the adult section of Uwants [uwants.com]. There used to be a forum there that focuses on adult pictures, but that particular forum has been removed since the incident.

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