Student Arrested for Writing Essay 890
mcgrew writes "The Chicago Tribune reports that an eighteen year old straight-A High School student was arrested for writing an essay that 'disturbed' his teacher. Even though no threats were made to a specific person, 18 year-old Allen Lee's English teacher convened a panel to discuss the work. As a result of that discussion, the police were called in. 'The youth's father said his son was not suspended or expelled but was forced to attend classes elsewhere for now. Today, Cary-Grove students rallied behind the arrested teen by organizing a petition drive to let him back in their school. They posted on walls quotes from the English teacher in which she had encouraged students to express their emotions through writing.'"
Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well there you go... (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course how many of these "depressed kids" [myself included in that instant] are just bored and looking for attention, I wonder.
in this case would it have been so hard to pull the kid aside with the parents and ask what's up? Instead of going all omgbbq!!!!111oneCRAZIES over it?
Tom
Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Insightful)
My friend had a similar situation happen to him after the Columbine High School shooting. He made up a death-list and talked about it to friends and other students in school PRIOR to Columbine. After Columbine, he was picked up by the school administrators and police and spent several days in consoling until they decided that he wasn't serious.
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Funny)
I'm really scared for the future of our country when kids these days are walking around with essays. I hear that Mexicans go around with them all the time, too.
Don't even get me started on pens. We'd be safter if kids brought swords to class instead.
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, I read this one that had witchcraft, rape, incest, slavery, prostitution, murder, cannibalism, ethnic cleansing, baby killing, and strange religious cults.
It was called the Bible.
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:4, Funny)
Sure it does, if you consider rape, murder, incest, slavery, ethnic killings, torture, etc. to be "virtues."
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me guess: whatever commands or actions by God that happen to be convenient to use for proselytizing. We can safely ignore the rest and chalk it up to "intrepretation."
When my angel goes in front of you, and brings you to the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I blot them out, you shall not bow down to their gods, or worship them, or follow their practices, but you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces (Exodus 23.23-24).
When Yahweh your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you -- the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites...and when Yahweh your God gives them over to you...you must utterly destroy them...Show them no mercy...For you are a people holy to Yahweh your God; Yahweh your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession (Deuteronomy 7.1-11; see also 9.1-5; 11.8-9, 23, 31-32).
But as for the towns of these peoples that Yahweh your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them--the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites--just as Yahweh your God has commanded, so that they may not teach you to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their gods, and you thus sin against Yahweh your God (Deuteronomy 20.16-18).
Three different passages, from two different books, and and the same message from the mouth of God commanding the death of every man, woman, and child. Let me guess: it's taken "out of context," right? Or perhaps the message has been adulterated through man--in which case, what standard of measure do you have to claim any other aspect of the Bible hasn't been also.
I know: whatever happens to be convenient to believe.
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:4, Interesting)
I count my blessings for having attended HS prior to Oklahoma City, Columbine and 9/11!
My friends and I never would have graduated if we had been forced to go to school in the current environment of paranoia. I should probably go over to my Mom's house and burn all of my old school essays(full of guns, knives, explosives, chain saws, nuclear weapons and endless amounts of carnage) just in case.
Re:Knee-jerk reaction to Virginia Tech (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't worry, I did it too. After a year or two I realized the irony of the situation and found great humor in it.
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was disruptive because I was bored and looking for attention.
I was depressed because I was bullied, because you are not permitted to be an individual in school.
And when I was kicked out of a school for finally getting in an actual fight and winning, instead of just being casually punched and kicked, or having things stolen from me, or having my bicycle destroyed in the mandatory-use bike rack, I was depressed because it was proof that the system was not there to educate me - I was an inconvenience to them and they were working to eliminate me.
Kids who aren't depressed by school are the ones with something wrong with them.
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course I was also fairly well occupied outside of school. I was in Air Cadets, went out with the few friends I had, played music, and was a general all around PC hacker.
I think the trick to surviving school is to think, as I did, that school is a small part of your life and 1 second after you grad from high school it's all over anyways. It's been 7 years since I left school and I have yet to meet any of them again, even though I still live in the same town.
It's the kids who put too much stock into their station in school life that get wicked depressed when they're not part of the cool clique.
Tom
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it doesn't help that the media hypes up the existence of the school life. "So then like brittany totally dated john, but john was like totally into jane, but
Admittedly, what little of american schools I've seen they're different from us cannuck schools. More emphasis on being the "captain of the sports team" and all that jazz. While we have sports here, and amongst the sports fans there are popular folk and all that shit, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. We don't have packed stadiums to watch 14 year olds toss a football around, etc.
Tom
Re:Well there you go... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_Despair [wikipedia.org]
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Well, it's true. The only person who ever bullied me in school that I've actually seen afterwards was a kid I clocked in the face on the bus in high school, and we were on good terms by that point. Amazing what standing up for yourself can do. But it was a long time before I could even reach that point.
But at the same time, it's a huge par
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think it works that way for the same reason that little kids cry when they drop their ice cream cone. Nothing truly bad has ever happened to them. By the same token, school is [ostensibly] the most important thing you've ever done as a child. Your parents make a bigger deal out of it than almost anything else. And it's the most influential social scene they've ever been a part of.
School is simply presented as the most important thing in their lives. If it isn't, we should stop treating it that way. If it is, then maybe WE should take OUR roles (as citizens, parents, educators, whatever we are) in education more seriously. We should actually work to stop the bullying, and I don't care if the bullies are athletes or not (but the schools certainly do.) We should treat children like humans, not like animals. They have needs and desires and hopes and fears like the rest of us and to dismiss them is to do them a great disservice.
Re:Well there you go... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that most kids diagnosed with ADD etc are actually just smart kids who need more to do.
Children should be challenged and to assign them to classes based on their age is convenient but does not serve their educational needs. Nor their social ones.
However, our school system is based on a German design intended to produce good factory workers. It mostly teaches children to line up in rows, sit still, and follow orders unquestioningly. So really the whole thing is broken and I think anyone who sends their children to a public school is guilty of child abuse.
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Freedom? What freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why can the government tell me who or how many people I can marry?
Why can the government tell me what plants I can grow?
Why can the government tell me what substances I can own?
Why can the government tell me how (or if) I should dress?
Why can the government tell two consenting adults what they can do together, or whether they can charge one another for it?
Why can the government tell me what countries I can visit?
I don't know of anywhere that I would really call free, and I am thankful for the freedoms I have. I am also watchful of the freedoms that are guaranteed to me but seem to be slipping. But I would love to see someplace that was really free.
Another 'offtopic' moderation coming my way, I'm sure...
Re:Freedom? What freedom? (Score:5, Funny)
This is why [google.com]
Re:Freedom? What freedom? (Score:4, Insightful)
Cause thankfully there are laws against people like that being in my society.
Re:Freedom? What freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as everyone involved is an adult and as long as everything's done with the informed consent of everyone involved, I frankly don't see why you should have a right to dictate what others can or can't do. I assume, based on your nickname, that you enjoy coffee. I'm also going to guess (without any basis) that you're heterosexual and not celibate (or that you wouldn't be if you had a girlfriend in case you don't have one). How would you feel if I came along and told you that in "my society", doing depraved things like drinking coffee and having missionary-style sex with your girlfriend are (or, at the very least, should be) illegal? Wouldn't you feel that this is an intrusion into your private matters - that as long as your girlfriend wants to have sex with you, there's no reason why the two of you shouldn't, and that whether you drink coffee or not is noone's business but your own?
Maybe you think that that's not the same, but if you do, you couldn't be more wrong. Freedom is always the freedom of others.
Re:Freedom? What freedom? (Score:4, Insightful)
Freedom as you describe it cannot exist in concert with civilization as we know it. That is not because of your points, but because of the ease with which the freedoms you pontificate about are extended to their extreme.
And please do not even attempt to say it wouldn't happen.
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or since the 1800's, when the sheriff was whoever had the biggest gun, and the law was whatever he said it was.
Or in the early 1700's, when the Brits owned and controlled everything, slavery was status quo, and a whole race of people was considered to be sub-human, and treated accordingly.
Yep, things have really gone downhill in the US. With this sort of track-record, who knows what could happen next!
Racist Reaction? (Score:5, Interesting)
Allen Lee - is that like Stan Lee or Bruce Lee? Just wondering if we have a teacher running in fear of young asian men.
Re:Racist Reaction? (Score:4, Informative)
Looks more like Bruce than Stan, though I don't know if that's a contributing factor or not.
I go to a large Big Ten university, and we just had a student held and suspended for wearing a ski-mask on a cold, rainy day. He didn't take it off inside his lecture and some asshat called the cops on him.
What a world. . .
Re:Well there you go... (Score:5, Interesting)
Several months before columbine, there was a shooting at some other school and the kid only injured a couple people (I think he killed like 3 and injured like 6) and I called the kid a pussy and if I had done that, I could kill at least 20, assuming I have enough ammo. Saying that prompted some friends of mine to elaborate on my strategy, which I did, and about a month later, the Columbine shooting happened and the next day (or maybe a couple days later) I was greeted in my 1st period class by a pair of policemen who escorted me to the station to talk to a detective.
As I waited while the detective went through my backpack and removed my notebook, he commented on the fact that I was wearing a trenchcoat and he asked me what kind of music I liked and what videogames I played. At the time, I was an avid Quake player and was hooked on KMFDM (and at this meeting, I was wearing a Maralyn Manson shirt). He flipped through my notebook, and saw dozens of drawings of spattered fluids, severed hands and heads, and sketches of bullet casings. It was just what I was into drawing at the time. I go through phases and had he looked at notebooks the month before, he would have seen lots of rope and barbed wire and stitches and electronics sketches.
this whole thing prompted a full investigation into me, I had to see a therapist for a couple days before they let me back in school, every little scrap of paper that they found that was the least bit violent, they questioned me about... I was frequently pulled out of classes (most often, my calculus class; which I wound up failing due to the frequent interruptions) and every little thing I wrote was studied. It really fucked me up and, although I'm not prone to violence at all, it was really pissing me off and I had to hold back to keep from throwing something at my principal.
it was completely stupid that they did that and it really was for absolutely nothing. I understand that if i was caught discussing that stuff and then I DID shoot up the school, if they did nothing about it, there would be serious problems, but at the same time, it was total bullshit. There's no reason to do that to someone just because they wrote a violent story. Look at all the published authors out there. Look at books like Fight Club and American Psycho (now, major motion pictures!). If someone writes that kind of thing for class, they risk expulsion or at the very least, some serious investigation. If someone writes that whilst trying to sell a book, they stand to make some nice money for themselves.
This fear of terrorism and violence and shootings in today's society is really stifling creativity. Literature will be hurt (due to young people being forcibly held back from writing what they want). Violence in movies is moving to a very stylized look, which although not all bad, I really like gore movies with realistic violence (ichi the killer, battle royal, etc). Even videogames are becoming targets and game studios are threatened with lawsuits just because some whackjob killed someone and happened to own a copy of their game. A man obsessed with John Lennon goes out and kills John Lennon. Who's to blame? The guy's psychosis or John Lennon's music? Why not the music? People blame videogames just as readily. A man obsessed with nascar is dragracing and kills 5 pedestrians in the process... why doesn't anyone sue Nascar?
Stephen King perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036014,00.html [ew.com]
Basically, what someone writes says little about their state of mind.
I agree 100% with Mr King and add that many people write in order to understand why people do the things they do. They want to see things through their eyes and live through the experiences that lead up to a "nut job end" so that ultimately they can become better more compassionate human beings or better able to see the warning signs when people start to get lost or just to form their own opinions instead of parroting the reaction they're "supposed to have".
The last thing we need to do is to discourage this sort of wisdom seeking. The world is already too full of superficial reactionaries that mindlessly see the world through safe "society approved"[TM] labels like "nut job", "terrorist", "communist", "capitalist", "fanatic", "cultist",
Overreactions (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Overreactions (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, but you're missing the point of censorship - you see, once something has been censored, nobody can see it. If we could see it, we'd have to use our own common sense and judgment to determine if it was actually harmful or not. That's not only hard work, it might even lead to the wrong conclusions - you may end up disagreeing with the Powerful Ones as to whether or not it needed to be censored. Plus, children might see it! As anybody who's never spent any actual time with an actual child knows, children have minds more fragile than Tiffany glass which can be irreparably, irreversibly destroyed by the slightest immoral thought at any time.
Rational subjective judgment and censorship can't coexist; we have to throw one out. Clearly, censorship is the lesser of the two evils.
The Essay? (Score:5, Interesting)
Without seeing the essay in question, we can't know whether there were substantiable threats being made, or whether this clearly is a free speech issue. From all accounts, it appear to be the latter, but I would like to have all doubts removed.
It was all a misunderstanding (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The Essay? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=306398 [dailyherald.com]
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Maybe Lee really did have that dream; it's a disturbing enough dream, but how ma
Crazy Writing + Young Asian male... OH BOY (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously though, thanks for the article.
It's fine for teachers to be vigilant and all following the VT massacre, but the principal and his/her underlings could have at least spoken to the kid about the essay (if you can call it that) to get the straight story.
And herein lies one of those traps that these "educators" can set up for themselves: a free-form assignment, unfettered by structure, unrestricted in content, heck, turn it in on toilet paper if you want, combine that with the ethnicity of the writer, and it gets used as evidence of a threat and an arrest.
The arrest is a clear case of going overboard. If this does not get corrected, well I guess we've found a new way of wrecking a young man's future.
Full disclosure: I are an Asian male... not young tho.
Re:The Essay? (Score:5, Insightful)
I distinctly remember a poem I wrote, where I described in first person the sensation and thoughts of a person committing suicide by jumping. Even my own mother looked at me like I was nuts, and we all joked about how someone might say something, but nothing came of it. People never questioned my motivation or the writing. You know there is this quote attributed to Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
I hope the criminal charges against him get dismissed and that he returns to school to complete his senior year. It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a great potential that the decision they made was both racial and reactionary. Neither of which are right.
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But the student's attorney, Dane Loizzo, said Lee was well within the confines of the assignment. Loizzo said the instructions included writing for a set period of time and to not censor anything.
"This was a free writing," Loizzo said. "It is very important to understand that the assignment was to write without parameters. A stream of consciousness seems to be the goal of the assignment."
...
"The assignment said on the top not to judge or censor what we write," said Lee, who forwarded further questions o
Re:The Essay? (Score:5, Insightful)
Excellent knee-jerk reaction for someone having absolutely no context for the writing.
If you made judgement on the writing alone, all of 4chan would be in jail. Look, the kid could have written it specifically to see how the teacher would react, he could have written it to explore things that disturb him in a manner that is safe, he could have been writing it as a joke, or perhaps he wrote it specifically to be disturbing and to invoke that feeling in the reader. Isn't part of art (whether it's writing, painting, sculpture, whatever) to invoke emotion in the reader/viewer?
Your kind of reaction, done with very limited information on the situation, is a perfect example of what's wrong in the world. This need for immediate gratification, in this case by passing judgement so you can now move on to the next topic and not bother with this again.
It's just silly.
Re:The Essay? (Score:4, Insightful)
I've read conflicting things that say this was a creative writing assignment and an essay. The two are not synonymous and this small excerpt proves absolutely nothing about the kid's mental stability. It's not even necessarily indicative of a lack of any stability. Plenty of people write about gore all the time. Have you ever seen any movies like Halloween, Hellraiser, Friday the 13th?
Effectively this kid did nothing more than have bad timing with what he wrote. The teacher went way overboard in his/her reaction and should be reprimanded for such behavior. An appropriate response would have been to call the kid and his parents in for a counselling session with the teacher and explain why that type of writing is inappropriate and find out if there is a reason behind the writing. Arrest is completely unwaranted and just shows how ridiculous we have become as a society. Fear is never a good reason for any action unless it's specifically self defense.
Re:The Essay? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like a nut job? To me, he sounds like a teen following the directions of the assignment and trying to determine where the limits lie. While not as well executed, Lee's essay has elements that are similar to sections of T.S. Elliot's The Wasteland [bartleby.com], the drug advocacy of Alan Ginsberg, the poetry of Sylvia Plath. Literature is filled with dead people we now refer to as artists and legends who became thus because they explored the dark edges of humanity. Oedipus Rex is all about incest and patricide, the works of Shakespeare are filled with violence, sex, and death. So, take this background, a bright student, and an assignment that instructs the students not to censor themselves, and just what did you expect to come out? No poets get recognized for writing about happy puppies and cute kittens.
Add to that, the only text from the essay I've seen has been excerpted out of context. If I just give you this text "And ate the fellow, raw.", what would you think the poem was about? Perhaps a bit from Silence of the Lambs? A quote from Penthouse Letters? A story about eating octopus [boingboing.net]? Nope. That's from Emily Dickinson's "In the garden" [cuny.edu]. Context is key to meaning.
Should the teacher have done something? Probably. Should someone have talked with Lee to find out if he really had violent tendencies? Sure. Should they have charged the kid with a crime for following, perhaps to the logical extreme, the explicit instructions on the assignment? Definitely not.
Full text of essay now posted (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0704
Blood sex and Booze. Drugs Drugs Drugs are fun. Stab, Stab, Stab, S...t...a...b..., poke. "So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone..., then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did." Umm, yeah, what to wright about...... I'm leaving to join the Marines and I really don't give a (obscenity) about my academics, so why does the only class that's complete Bull Shit, happen to be the only required class...enough said. The model citizen would stay around to vote in new board member to change the 4 years of English policy, but no one really stays around to vote for that kind of local crap, so whoever gets there name on the Ballet with a pretty face gets to do what the (obscenity) ever they want with local ordinance. A person is smart, but people are dumb selfish animals. We can't make rules for ourselves so we vote others to do it for us, but we can't even do that right, I meen seriously, Bush for President? And our other option was John Kerry who claimed to parktake in Vietnam Special Forces missions that haven't been declassified....(obscenity) Bull Shit. So Power Flower Super Mario. Pudge, hook, rot, dismember "Fresh Meat." Mostly new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting.
(The following is Lee's explanation of the essay above, given to the media by his lawyer.)
Authors Note: This production of writing is done in the most accurate manner I can depict of the original writing. Grammar and spelling mistakes are included at the best accuracy possible. The first phrase in questions is in fact a Green Day song. The second reference to drugs is in relation to the schools history of drug problems. I am personally clean of all controlled substances. The statement in quotes is done so as a non personal statement as I would have done in reference to a character for a story. The reference to the gun P90 is from a video game, combined with a reference to necrophilia as a comment regarding a seriously messed up situation. A situation such as the rape of villagers during a raid by U.S. troops in Vietnam. I really do not care too much about by continuing academia as in relation to grades. I do however believe on continuing my personal education, and I am actually still working for my classes. My views on the graduation requirements explain themselves. The reference to Mario and Pudge( a DOTA character) are completely random as is this essay. The reference to a person being smart and people being dumb is based on a quote from "Men in Black." I generally do believe the public opinion is best. The rest of the essay is rather self explanatory, the main statement in question I have already released a comment online about. I request that all information I have released is read together, and nothing given separately or as an excerpt as the administration has seen fit to do.
On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school.
Understandable? (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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No, no it isn't.
I hate to use this phrase, but if you succumb to paranoia, then the terrorists have won.
Each case should be evaluated on its own merits, because each person is an individual.
What is "disorderly conduct"? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, doesn't the US have a constitution which makes freedom of expression an absolute right?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, doesn't the US have a constitution which makes freedom of expression an absolute right?
Yes, but that does not exempt you from the consequences of exercising that right. The government can't exercise prior restraint - i.e. they think you are going to say something they don't like and arrest you for what you might say. You can, however, be arrested for the consequences of you
Re:What is "disorderly conduct"? (Score:5, Insightful)
>>Yes, but that does not exempt you from the consequences of exercising that right.
That's ridiculous! It's obviously not a "Right" if the government can throw you in prison for exercising it!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Disorderly conduct is an old standby charge which cops use when they want to arrest someone who hasn't committed any identifiable crimes. The definitions vary from region to region, but they're generally loose enough that pretty much any behavior that the public disapproves of can be shoehorned into its definition.
For example, a friend of mine was recently arrested (and assaulted by cops) for "disorderly conduct". His crime was stomping on an A
Disorderly conduct? (Score:5, Insightful)
Disorderly conduct, which carries a penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine, is filed for pranks such as pulling a fire alarm or dialing 911. But it can also apply when someone's writings can disturb an individual, Delelio said
If this is true, then the disorderly conduct statute should be declared unconstitutional. If writing something that could disturb any random individual (without directly threatening that individual) is an arrestable offense, then the very idea of free speech is pretty much out the window. After all, if the First Amendment isn't there to protect possibly disturbing speech, what is it there for?
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The teachers did the right thing by being cautious and that shouldn't be discouraged. Perhaps some refining of the "what to do when we think we h
Re:Disorderly conduct? (Score:5, Interesting)
Layne
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You mean just like how the standard for sexual harassment is supposed to be that a reasonable person would find it to be offensive, but the actual standard is whether the so-called victim finds it offensive?
I just like to bring the sexual harassment laws up occasionally becau
Standards (Score:5, Interesting)
25 years ago, when my agency first started paying attention to the topic, the standard was "reasonableness." If a sexual advance or reference would not be found to be a problem by a reasonable person, then it wasn't punished. If *any* activity was found to be a problem by *any* person and that person made such known, then no reasonable person would repeat the activity. See what I'm getting at?
Do something outrageous; get punished.
Do something questionable and no one complains; nothing happens.
Do something questionable and someone lets you know they have a problem with it; now you know that it is unreasonable to repeat that action because someone finds it objectionable.
The bottom line was that everyone got one mistake. If you did something stupid, you could be told so and as long as you didn't do it again, you were OK. That standard worked fine.
I was placed formally on warning for sexual harassment when I stepped into an elevator with two women, one a secretary and one a high-powered exec. I said hello and the exec said "How are you today?" I answered "Lessee, I'm about to get off work on a beautiful Friday afternoon and in the meantime I'm locked in a small room with two beautiful women. How could I be any better?"
The exec put me on warning. The secretary was shocked that anyone could take offense. I got away with it because under a standard of reasonableness, I could not be expected to anticipate the reaction of the exec and could therefore not be held accountable. However, I now understood her rather low standard for getting offended and it would be unreasonable for me to violate it in the future; thus, if I were to make another such witty remark to that exec, I would be suspended or fired. I stopped speaking to her and everything worked out fine. The "reasonableness" criteria was a good one and quite workable.
Nowadays, the standard has changed. I stress to my classes that my very first comment in that elevator would have resulted in severe disciplinary action under our new standard where sexual harassment is now defined, essentially, as anything the victim decides to characterize as sexual harassment. My classes find the example sobering, as well they should.
Nice reporting Chicago Tribune (Score:4, Insightful)
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Almost happend to me (Score:4, Interesting)
Apparently, he though that meant I was suicidal.
Maybe his was more disturbing. Its difficult to say what to do in each situation. It seems like some people overreact, and others under react. I think my case was clearly an attempt at humor, but recommending a visit tot he school shrink for further evaluation is probably the best first step.
Why do their grades matter (Score:5, Insightful)
Just what was the point of that?
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I was going to say the exact opposite. It seems to me the fact that he's a straight-A student should have made the school realize this guy was not the loose cannon that Cho was. Cho was deeply anti-establishment and his rantings show a hatred for conformists. It's pretty hard to be anti-establishment and non-conformist and still get straight-A's, for to get them you must follow all your teachers' and school'
Better article (Score:5, Informative)
But Lee said Thursday night that the excerpts were taken out of context in an assignment that explicitly instructed students not to judge or censor their writing.
Lee said a friend planned to distribute the complete essay and assignment to Cary-Grove students today to provide context to a story that has gained national attention.
"It's not the full [essay], or with the assignment," Lee said of a criminal complaint in which prosecutors charged him with disorderly conduct Thursday. "People are already judging this without seeing the assignment.
Louis Bianchi, McHenry County state's attorney, said Thursday he would prosecute Lee on the misdemeanor charge, which carries a maximum penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine.
"I think the teacher did the appropriate thing," Bianchi said. "Now, it's going to be brought to the attention of the courts."
Cary Police arrested Lee, 18, near his home Tuesday morning on disorderly conduct charges after Cary-Grove Principal Susan Popp called police.
Lee, who plans to enter boot camp for the Marines in October, said teacher Nora Capron told the class to write about whatever they wanted.
A copy of the assignment obtained Thursday night included the following guidelines for a "free writing" exercise:
"Write nonstop for a set period of time."
"Do not make corrections as you write."
"Keep writing, even if you have to write something like, 'I don't know what to write.' "
"Write whatever comes into your mind."
"Do not judge or censor what you are writing."
The assignment included additional guidelines such as, "If your free writing is neat and coherent, you probably haven't loosened up enough."
The Lee family met with representatives of High School District 155 Thursday to discuss potential disciplinary measures, said Dane Loizzo, whose law firm is representing Lee.
"We're attempting to get Allen back into the school with his friends and peers as quickly and judiciously as possible," said Loizzo, of the Woodstock-based Law Offices of Loizzo and Loizzo.
Messages left with district Superintendent Jill Hawk and district spokesman Jeff Puma were not immediately returned Thursday night.
Criminal Charges
School officials allege that in an essay for his ninth-period English class on Monday, Lee wrote about a dream where he went into a building, started shooting people with guns, had sex with the dead bodies. He then retracted it saying, "but it would be funny if I did."
A person can be charged with disorderly conduct if their actions are alarming or disturbing to others.
The district responded to another threat made last week at Crystal Lake Central High School. About half the students at Central stayed home Friday and police presence at the school was increased after threatening graffiti was found on a bathroom wall. The graffiti was determined to be a prank, officials have said.
Capron read Lee's essay Monday night and called her department chair, who then spoke with Cary-Grove Principal Susan Popp.
Popp called police and signed the disorderly conduct complaint shortly afterward, prosecutors said, and Lee was arrested Tuesday morning.
Attorney Thomas Loizzo said the student complied with the assignment.
"How is the student supposed to know where the line is between creativity and censorship?" he said. "The assignment didn't specify that if you wrote something that the teacher thought would be offensive, that you could then be prosecuted criminally."
Attorney Dane Loizzo agreed.
"Write whatever comes into your mind." (Score:3, Insightful)
If a teacher does not know his or her students well enough to deal with whatever comes out of a free association exercise, that teacher has no business giving that kind of assignment. And as far as the state attorney bringing charges, hasnt Florida had enough political embarassment this decade?
The other thing I don't understand is why the teacher read the assignment. Is she this kid's psychoanalyst? Yeah, yo
Re:"Write whatever comes into your mind." (Score:4, Interesting)
Its Not Censorship, its Thoughtcrime (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me this was a smart kid playing games with a stupid touchy feely assignment for a blow-off class his senior year.
Should the kid have been referred to a counselor? Sure.
Should the kids parents been contacted? Absolutely.
Arrested because his thoughts are disturbing? No.
THAT IS NOTHING,..... (Score:4, Insightful)
What actually happened was that he snapped another student's pencil.
the USA's legal system is broken beyond repair.
People are scared (Score:3, Interesting)
Several years ago, post-Columbine, my brother-in-law, a high-school senior at the time, had a bb-gun, a pistol in a bag in the back seat of his car. After school, he was going to give a few of his friends a ride, and a couple sat in the back. One of them opened the bag, saw the gun, and took it out. They were still in the parking lot of the school. Another student that was walking by saw the gun and told school officials.
The upshot of this was that all the students in the car were suspended, and my brother-in-law was expelled. After much lawyering and many hearings, he was allowed to receive his diploma, but was not allowed back to his original school. For the final three months of high school, he attended the "juvenile offenders" school.
In our current climate, I think he got off lucky.
Not Unprecedented (Score:3, Informative)
Updated 5:07 PM ET December 23, 2000
MORRISTOWN, N.J. (AP) - A teen-age boy has been arrested and
accused of distributing a manuscript that included passages about
killing faculty and students.
The 17-year-old student at Roxbury High School was charged with
false public alarm. His name was not disclosed.
His parents have said the boy, arrested at his home early Friday,
uses his writing to express his troubles at school.
"He's not a violent person," his mother said Friday during a court
hearing. "His outlet is his writing."
Police said they learned that at least two students had copies of
the manuscript, but would not say how they became aware of it. The
boy's mother said some of the material had been shown to his
guidance counselor.
The writings begin: "I'm a product of today's violence."
Superior Court Judge Salem Ahto said the boy should remain in
juvenile detention pending a psychological evaluation.
%%%
Secret Service accused of threatening free speech
By Associated Press, 2/16/2001 20:48
NEW YORK (AP) The Secret Service has been accused of trampling on the free
speech rights of a college student who wrote a satirical editorial asking
Jesus to ''smite'' President Bush.
The letter was published last week in the Stony Brook Press at the State
University of New York campus in Stony Brook. It was written by Glenn
Given, 22 the paper's managing editor.
Titled ''Editorial: Dear Jesus Christ, King of all Kings, All I ask is
that you smite George W. Bush.'' It also asked Jesus to strike down Bush,
his cabinet and MTV personality Carson Daly.
A faculty member apparently contacted authorities.
Given said two Secret Service agents and a campus police officer showed up
Wednesday to interrogate him.
They had him sign waivers authorizing them to check his medical records,
threatened to charge him with a crime and searched his apartment,
according to a letter of protest sent to the Secret Service by the
Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.
''The editorial was clearly a form of satire and political hyperbole'' in
response to Bush's well-publicized devotion to Christianity, the letter
said. ''We believe it is inappropriate to harass a journalist, editor,
writer or citizen for exercising his or her right to free speech.''
Incorrect response (Score:3, Interesting)
Every time a troubled youth acts out in a destructive way, society suffers, not only in grief but in shame and guilt - we're supposed to help our fellow humans, especially the young ones. Every student murder-suicide report should count the perpetrator as a victim - we failed to notice the warning signs & help that individual, and it resulted in their demise.
Imagine this post, a few weeks ago (Score:4, Insightful)
Before that day a new record was set by a young man. By a young a man who had submitted stories and plays that disturbed his teachers but who took no action.
What if they had?
Well, off course if they had then the shooting would not have happened so those teachers would have been totally out of order for doing something.
The job of the police is to stop crime. No it isn't. The job of the police is to arrest people AFTER they committed a crime. As Terry Pratchett put in a recent Discworld novel "we caught the guy that done it" sounds a lot better then "we caught the guy that looked like he was going to do it" especially if they say "prove it".
BUT that doesn't help much when you got 30 dead.
Saying that those people paid the price of freedom is NOT going to win you any friends.
One /.er posted a link with a small segment of the essay. It seems to me like the typical emo/teenage kid rant. Personally I think hanging is to good for them but sadly I am not the judge.
The point is however that this happened right after a tragedy wich might have been prevented. Do you want to be the person who ignores the warning signs next time? In the the U Sue of All (man that would have my english teacher calling in the special forces)?
But we don't know the whole essay. Most police officers are rather down to earth, they KNOW the world. For them to make an arrest and for it not to be all settled easily alarms me. Slashdot happily tells us that this guy is a straight-A student. That is great because we all know straight-A students do NOT flip out. What I want to know is this, did the police check him out and what the fuck did they find?
Why doesn't slashdot reportd exactly how many guns this person owns (whatever the number may be and remember, zero is an important number) and how many kilo's of ammo he has stockpiled (again remember the humble zero).
Freedom and the prevention of crime do NOT mix. Since most want both, you are going to have conflicts.
Sigh (Score:5, Interesting)
Not only did I not get into trouble, I was rewarded with an excerpt reading in class and a free trip to a gifted writers' workshop where I won awards and accolades.
If I did that today, I'd be sent away pretty quickly, I'd imagine.
"Student arrested for not believing in God" (Score:5, Interesting)
So if a student writes an essay about there being no God, and the teacher is heavy into his/her religion and is disturbed by the essay, then according to the law, the teacher can have the student arrested for disorderly conduct?
The essay, in its entirety (Score:5, Informative)
Blood sex and Booze. Drugs Drugs Drugs are fun. Stab, Stab, Stab, S...t...a...b..., poke. "So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone..., then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did." Umm, yeah, what to wright about...... I'm leaving to join the Marines and I really don't give a (obscenity) about my academics, so why does the only class that's complete Bull Shit, happen to be the only required class...enough said. The model citizen would stay around to vote in new board member to change the 4 years of English policy, but no one really stays around to vote for that kind of local crap, so whoever gets there name on the Ballet with a pretty face gets to do what the (obscenity) ever they want with local ordinance. A person is smart, but people are dumb selfish animals. We can't make rules for ourselves so we vote others to do it for us, but we can't even do that right, I meen seriously, Bush for President? And our other option was John Kerry who claimed to parktake in Vietnam Special Forces missions that haven't been declassified....(obscenity) Bull Shit. So Power Flower Super Mario. Pudge, hook, rot, dismember "Fresh Meat." Mostly new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting.
Authors Note: This production of writing is done in the most accurate manner I can depict of the original writing. Grammar and spelling mistakes are included at the best accuracy possible. The first phrase in questions is in fact a Green Day song. The second reference to drugs is in relation to the schools history of drug problems. I am personally clean of all controlled substances. The statement in quotes is done so as a non personal statement as I would have done in reference to a character for a story. The reference to the gun P90 is from a video game, combined with a reference to necrophilia as a comment regarding a seriously messed up situation. A situation such as the rape of villagers during a raid by U.S. troops in Vietnam. I really do not care too much about by continuing academia as in relation to grades. I do however believe on continuing my personal education, and I am actually still working for my classes. My views on the graduation requirements explain themselves. The reference to Mario and Pudge( a DOTA character) are completely random as is this essay. The reference to a person being smart and people being dumb is based on a quote from "Men in Black." I generally do believe the public opinion is best. The rest of the essay is rather self explanatory, the main statement in question I have already released a comment online about. I request that all information I have released is read together, and nothing given separately or as an excerpt as the administration has seen fit to do.
On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school.
This will undo my mod but... (Score:4, Insightful)
And now I elarn today that you can be arrested if you write something which is troubling somebody, and promptly a 18 old was arrested for doing so.
So... Who is the more fucked up ? One country which arrest people which want to cremate/kill/genocide other folk, or police which arrest student for writing an essay calling for killing having sex with body and drug ?
Sound as bad each other IMHO. At least here in Europe we do not have the ILLUSION of having free speech, whereas on the other side of the atlantic, beside free speech being written on a piece of paper, you are as bad or as good off as us...
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Funny)
This police action disservices literature. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Funny)
Now seriously: How come this guy is a Straight-A student???? I am afraid the average level of intelligence has dropped dramatically there in the US....
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Interesting)
My personal favorite is The Cask of Amontillado. How f**king disturbing is that? From what I remember (I've only read it once) a guy leads his drunk so-called friend down into the deepest part of the crypts during Carnival, chains him to the wall and proceeds to build a wall around him while the guy has recovered from his drunken stupor and is screaming his head off... Yeah, I read that in school.
Is that ok because it's set in Italy? Hell, there's really not a whole lot in there that places it at any particular time, it could be present day with a few small changes.
Now, I actually can see what they were worried about if it had to do with going someplace and shooting people. But they shouldn't be jumping to conclusions, they should find out the intent of the paper, and possibly get the kid some counseling. Really, the problem here is knee jerk reactions and lack of free health care.
Imagine what could be if people who have issues (fantasizing about killing people, raping little girls and boys, etc) had easy access to free counseling. Even the cheap ones cost $50 - $75 per session, and people who end up doing these things are usually ones who can't afford much, don't have insurance, and really need the good doctors. Yeah, are some ways to get financial assistance from the government but it's extremely difficult and time consuming. Apparently the powers that be don't care about helping these people until they've gone and done something wrong. Then people have already been injured or killed. The people who did it have had a taste of it and are going to need much more serious counseling and they're in an environment which doesn't facilitate recovery. Now, not only are we paying for their counseling, we're paying for their room and board, and they're not even contributing to society (no job). Oh, and I almost forgot: there's always the death penalty instead of counseling, perhaps TPTB like killing people instead of trying to fix the problem (that's what I used to do in Sim City when I couldn't pay for fire departments, just bulldoze all the surrounding stuff and the fire won't spread).
Yeah, our country's system sucks.
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The arresting officers (Score:4, Insightful)
Given this as a benchmark, I'd like to suggest that the world keep a very close eye on Mr. Vincent Furnier and Mr. Brian Warner. They have written and published extensively on some very disturbing topics, including drug use, violence against women, violence in families, violence in general, sexual devience, and school bombings. These are the sort of psychopaths that shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets freely.
Given the social climate, and the impressionable minds that such writings might reach, I think it better if they were arrested as soon as possible. Who knows how much of a following they might be able to generate, or what horrendous acts such followers might carry out?
Please, if you see either of these men, let your local authorities know right away.
You should also know that they frequently travel under the aliases Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson.
Re:Too bad we can't judge the essay for ourselves (Score:3, Insightful)
There are other courses of action to deal with it when someone is obviously disturbed, but really, no matter what he wrote, no matter how vile or stomach turning, it doesn't prove he's even unstable - it only proves he knows how to write to nauseat
Re: San Francisco values (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides that, the jist of your post seems to be, "Just be normal! And if you can't force yourself (i.e. dumb yourself down enough) to think like the masses, just act like you do anyway. Waste your life away being a passive "me-too"-er who never questions the status-quo or gets emotional about anything. It's fun to try to fit in! The majority of America does it, so