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Privacy Your Rights Online

China Creates Massive Online ID Database 142

Posted by kdawson from the watching-1.3-billion dept.
schwaang writes that while the US continues to hash out concerns over the Real ID Act, which aims to create a national ID by standardizing state driver's licenses, China has already implemented a massive online ID database, which they say will help prevent fraud. From the Xinhua English-language site: "Anyone can now send a text message or visit the country's population information center's website, to check if the name and the ID number of a person's identity card match. If they do match the ID card-holder's picture also appears, said the Ministry, adding that no other information is available to ensure a citizen's privacy is protected. Completed at the end of 2006, China's population information database, the world's largest, contains personal information on 1.3 billion citizens. Giving public accessing to the database is also designed to correct mistakes if an individual discovers that their name, number and picture don't match."
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China Creates Massive Online ID Database More

China Creates Massive Online ID Database

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  • yeah (Score:3, Insightful)

    by macadamia_harold ( 947445 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:18PM (#17966190) Homepage
    China has already implemented a massive online ID database, which they say will help prevent fraud.

    And by "fraud", they mean "democracy".

    • Re:yeah (Score:5, Insightful)

      by VJ42 ( 860241 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:39PM (#17966444)
      Well they're already one better than the proposed UK ID database. What's the world coming to when China is giving public oversight to a huge ID scheme, and here in the UK the government won't even release it's proposed spending plans on it?
    • Open Source Society, where not only does one have no privacy, you would have no right to privacy. How far could China (or we) go with this?

      A logical conclusion would be the eventual development of a live video and sound feed wherever a person is, at any given time (including the bathroom and in the boudoir). Anyone at all could view you at any time, and could do so with the click of a mouse. The viewer would of course be recorded as well.

      Everything ... open to everyone ... all the time.

      • Re:open source society (Score:5, Interesting)

        by VJ42 ( 860241 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @07:03PM (#17966670)

        Everything ... open to everyone ... all the time.
        If that includes the actions of those at the top. i.e. if I can monitor the actions of the Prime Minister and various top members of military and "intelligence" services; I'm not sure how much I'd mind, as in a population of 60mn how likely is it that I'm being monitored compared with those who are in the public eye (in other words those with power)? That would be real accountability.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by ShieldW0lf ( 601553 )
          This is precisely what we should be shooting for.

          Privacy is more about safety from prejudice than anything else. The important thing is that everyone loses it at once, no one has to go first, and everyone gets equal access.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 )

          While it'd be better than a system where the government knows everything about everyone but the population doesn't, I still wouldn't want to live in a world without any secrets. Mob rule is not that much better than dictatorship, as there is far too much intolerance in the world. Think Salem Witch Trials, attitudes towards homosexuality, the Monica Lewinsky scandal, etc.

          I'm also not a big fan of my actions being recorded. The problem with that is that it's too easy for someone who opposes you to take th

          • I'm not thrilled with the idea of universal surveillance either, but it's been argued that the only choices are between that and one-way surveillance against us by governments and other powerful groups. See David Brin's The Transparent Society, a good chunk of which is free here [davidbrin.com]. He wrote this pre-9/11, and I suspect he's not thrilled with the direction we're heading between those two alternatives.
    • and by "democracy" you mean Bush and Afghanistan style? need I remind you that Bush wasn't elected by the people either..

      • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Evilest Doer ( 969227 )

          Neither was Clinton (twice) or JFK in 1960

          Clinton and JFK were duly elected according to the laws of the US. Clinton got less than half the popular vote the first time, but then so did Abraham Lincoln and a lot of other presidents. In fact, "spoilers" as they are called today (like Nader and Perot) were quite common before the time of the Eisenhower election. Nader and Perot simply diverted some of the popular vote, and even that is questionable given how much turnout there usually is at election time.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
            Comment removed based on user account deletion

            • That 8k block of Kennedy votes coming out of Chicago, however... please. Luckily, Nixon had more class than Gore.

              Well, you might be right about JFK (but only maybe). My comments, especially about winning the presidency with less than 50% of the popular vote, was directed more towards what was commonly said about when Clinton first won the presidency and lots of Republicans whined about Perot. Basically, the presidency has been "spoiled" much more historically than we have seen in recent times.

              Also, it

              • "in America we generally are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, though at this point a vote for Cthulu is beginning to look somewhat promising."

                Are you one of those who voted for Nader in 2000 because "there was no difference between Bush and Gore"?

                Guess what? You were dead fucking wrong. Working families, multiple sclerosis sufferers, teachers, and brown people speaking in funny tongues worldwide (including several hundreds of thousands of Iraqis) say: FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
            • You know, I'm not normally for conspiracy theories either. But the evidence is pretty fucking convincing, if you only spend ten minutes Googling—or even reading the relevant back issues of your local newspaper—that Florida would have gone to Gore in 2000 had a recount proceeded fairly. Calling that a "conspiracy theory" only serves to show your willful ignorance (not that I'm not sympathetic, because hey, I really wish I could still believe in our democracy, too).

              Not that I even give a shit anym
          • Because a Democrat's never stolen an election. Or cheated on their wife. Or lied about it when sworn under oath to speak the truth. Or attacked a non-hostile country.

            Extract head from ass. There's only one political party in this country and they all do the same shit. Occasionally one party's just better at cheating than the other.

            • I never said Democrats are perfect. And yes, some can be downright horrible. But that does not excuse the horrible activities of the present administration. I also opposed Clinton's unjustified invasion of Kosovo. Just because Clinton (or anyone else for that matter) did something wrong, doesn't mean that everything Dear Leader does now is all right.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mrbluze ( 1034940 )

      And by "fraud", they mean "democracy".

      Maybe, if by "democracy" you mean "power to the people", and not just a representative voting system. The term American democracy is pretty much an oxymoron now.

      The worry is not that there is a Chinese government doing this, since our own governments are doing this to us - perhaps not as overtly. The worry is the database itself, what a powerful tool it is, and how effective it could be in stopping organised dissent by removing anonymity.

      It really is an extens

    • Re:yeah (Score:4, Informative)

      by hackingbear ( 988354 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @11:59PM (#17968794)
      But in China, anyone can spend a few buck and get fake ID of any kind: ID card, diploma, driver license, passport, ... Frauds are rampant. How does this relate to democracy? I do worry about the technical security of this database and web site. It is just time that hackers can intrude the system and gain millions of ID/name records.

    • Re:yeah (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kamapuaa ( 555446 ) on Sunday February 11, 2007 @12:13AM (#17968912) Homepage
      How exactly would a system where the public can check if a person's name and ID number match, be a damper on democracy? Does democracy rely on defrauding people about your real ID number? In the US I have to give my ID number to get a credit card, go to the hospital, enroll in a school, etc. These institutions have to confirm my real identity. Is that anti-democratic?

      • How exactly would a system where the public can check if a person's name and ID number match, be a damper on democracy?

        It wouldn't. On the contrary, allowing the public access to a system which the government already has serves to promote democracy. What is a damper on democracy is the system run by the US states (at least the ones I know) where the police have the power to type in a name and ID number and get a picture of you, but the public doesn't.

        Now promoting democracy is strange coming from China,

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by GauteL ( 29207 )
        In a facist state with abusive authorities like China, any tool the government has to locate and identify people should be considered a potential tool for oppression.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by smoker2 ( 750216 )

      And by "fraud", they mean "democracy".
      That's funny, over here when they say democracy they mean fraud.

  • Cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:21PM (#17966238)
    This is a great way to do it, you have to admit. I wonder if they list all of us expats as well...
    • Gee...I wonder if they list their donor information along with it so they can then do the usual: arrest and execute the involuntary donor for the rich recipient....

  • Software side (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:24PM (#17966262) Homepage Journal
    Thats gotta be a pretty massive database, any ideas about the tech running underneath?

    • Re:Software side (Score:5, Funny)

      by Frankie70 ( 803801 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:29PM (#17966310)

      Thats gotta be a pretty massive database, any ideas about the tech running underneath?


      The data is stored in Microsoft Access & the UI is written in VB6.
      • >The data is stored in Microsoft Access & the UI is written in VB6.

        What? Do you really think they're using some kind of database? I have some insider info, and I can, with absolute certainty, say that the data is stored in 19,837 excel spreadsheets, with one row for each citizen. Lookup is done with a batch file which guesses which spreadsheet has the needed citizen based on the serial number, and also estimates the line which contains it. Then the batch script uses edlin to display that line or redi
      • I'm sure that they are using the latest and greatest software DB release available. It's available from a street vendor right outside the building ... ... for three bucks.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Bazar ( 778572 )
        running on vista
      • Haha that was funny, partly since it's almost true.
        I've seen technicans debugging Shanghai Metro Line #1 ticket vending machines.
        They run on VB6.
        So if they use Access to power that, I'm not surprised.

        Therefore if it turns to be slower in off-peak hours than Wikipedia in peak hours, I'm not surprised either.
    • >>>"thats gotta be a pretty massive database, any ideas about the tech running underneath?

      FlickR with Tagging.

    • Re:Software side (Score:5, Funny)

      by MillionthMonkey ( 240664 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @07:15PM (#17966764)
      I could have a billion rows in a MySQL database running on a server in my mother's basement by the end of next week.

      Me and some buds of mine are setting up a centralized information infrastructure for use by the new technological dictatorships that are popping up around the world, and we're going to use LAMP for the whole thing, in a little server farm that keeps my mother's house nice and toasty in the winter. As fascism, technology, and oppression spread, lots of governments are drowning in all the information they are collecting from their population via videocameras, fingerprint readers, financial databases, etc. and they're realizing their own IT infrastructure isn't stable enough to use for effective political oppression- they have all this data, but they need to mine that data, to find people committing thought crimes. That's where we bring in our own value proposition.

      Plus we tailor our strategies to handle special customer situations. For example, one of our customers has implemented a one-child-per-couple policy, and this makes several optimizations possible.

    • Thats gotta be a pretty massive database, any ideas about the tech running underneath?

      A series of tubes. Definitely not a dumptruck.

  • Wait what?! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:24PM (#17966264)
    So China develops a national ID that ties a name and a number to a photo, can be corrected if its incorrect, and can't be used by the bouncer at the bar to get that hot girl's address and phone number, and we're still stuck on our useless social security cards and drivers' licenses? Clearly China has become the new overlords of freedom.

    Who am I kidding? We all know that internally, China will use this database to track every citizens' whereabouts, who they are talking to, what they read at the library and most importantly whether you've bought milk recently or not [marilyncarolyn.com].

    • You insensitive clod! (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      China will use this database to track every citizens' whereabouts, who they are talking to, what they read at the library and most importantly whether you've bought milk recently or not.

      Many Chinese are lactose intolerant!
    • The cyberdyne system failed, so they instead choose to grow it in china and build it there, where later they will mass produce
      lots of terminator 4 versions all chineese, made by chineese and being 5ft tall and kick like Jackie Chan.

    • What you latest bought from the shop is known by the shopping chains marketdroids, how many bonus cards you said you have? Library information, I guess nobody else is interested harvesting it other than United States at the moment. For public interest, I last read Terry Pratchett btw. In Finland, we do have the national ID database. Expenses are 28M a year. From every citizen we record things like name, address, citizenship, date of birth, birthplace and so forth. Postal office gets records from same DB. W

  • Unlike the NSA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deathguppie ( 768263 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:29PM (#17966314)

    They are not keeping this all secret. I don't think it's as big of a deal if we have access to and knowledge of what is kept in the database. I already know that I exist and that there are records of my existance. As long as there is no address or name alongside the picture I don't see this as a bad thing.


    This kind of open ID database is not nearly as frightening as the ones being made of us without our knowledge or confirmation of facts pertaining to us.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hclyff ( 925743 )
      This is very good point. It is the distinction between transparent society (everybody can spy on everybody) and totalitarian state (government can freely spy on it's citiziens). While China is not shining example of transparent society, or free for that matter, it is way better than secret databases and non-secret databases available exlusively to government agencies. These are the wet dreams of the heads of every counterespionage / homeland security / law enforcement agency on the planet, and likely implem
    • And you certainly can trust and believe that there is nothing else being kept other than what they allow to be seen. After all a country that forces Google to hide parts of the internet from their citizens would never lie to them...

    • I think it's exposure that people need to be worried about. No matter how much people whinge and bitch about it, their governments (and even private enterprise) keep databases about them.

      These databases *should* be secure, to prevent unauthorized access, but there have been many cases over the years demonstrating that they aren't: VA contractor takes home notebook containing records of thousands/millions people, notebook gets stolen, database gets compromised; disgruntled data-entry subcontractor in anothe

  • Revelation 13:16-17, coming soon to the USA (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ph33r th3 g(O)at ( 592622 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:30PM (#17966322)
    And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Dik Zak ( 974638 )
      There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things, with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
    • Revelation 13:16-17

      And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

      Revelation 14:4

      These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

      Prepare all ye, for the end of the world is nigh at hand!
    • Isn't that about the Romans? Also, other translations of the bible say "to be given a mark on the right hand", which is significant in that it can't be weaseled as easily to represent an ID card.

      Alternatives welcome.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 )
      The number used to identify The Mark was about Roman Caesars. The number is apparently a use of numerology to identify a particular emperor and has apparently been changed in number to fit different Caesars as the old one died. The Mark is also supposed to be one where you recant all other beliefs to worship or follow The Beast.

      In short, it doesn't really apply. If there is an afterlife and a hell in the afterlife, accepting Real ID or similar probably won't be the thing that will cause you to be sent th
      • The nature of the "number of the beast" is of some controversy, and you are correct that there have been attempts to paint the Book of Revelation as a politically commentary about the Rome of the time and to link the number to Nero. Interprerations of the book are plentiful.

        Perhaps Real ID or similar is not a ticket to hell. But Christian beliefs that pervasive identification schemes (particularly those that involve biometrics, or implants) are related to the charagma have been crucial in preventing us alr

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by CheeseTroll ( 696413 )
      So we'll use their left hands, instead. Problem solved.
    • ...to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads...

      Well, which one is it? Surely, an omniscient deity shouldn't have difficulty telling apart a hand and a forehead. An omniscient deity would also know how to convey its message accurately to the transcriber because, well, the deity would be omniscient. Goes with the territory, you know?

      Seriously, I wish you so-and-sos would stop quoting a poorly-written book that's the center of the world's largest and most pervasive cults ever. There is never
      • I suppose God, unlike you, considered the possibility that there are people alive without right hands, but not without heads. WRT "intelligent as a paramecium," your reasoning spake for itself.
      • ...to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads...

        Well, which one is it? Surely, an omniscient deity shouldn't have difficulty telling apart a hand and a forehead.

        You're misreading it. Obviously the Antichrist gives people a choice of where they want the mark. Personally I'll go for the hand; it'll look a lot cooler there.

    • Hey, that's great! For you Westerners, I mean. Christians are a minority in China, but maybe you should go there and proselytize, and save their eternal souls. Like, say, in some major public square in the capital. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
      • The Great Commission says to do just that, and many Westerm Christians are working very hard to bring the Gospel to red China full of so many lost athiests and followers of false religions. Of course, they're doing it on the QT. While martyrdom is noble, it is not generally sought out.

  • Prevents fraud? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by DanTheManMS ( 1039636 )

    Giving public accessing to the database is also designed to correct mistakes if an individual discovers that their name, number and picture don't match.
    Ignoring the misuse of "accessing" for the moment, how is one assured that the correction is in fact correct? What is stopping identity fraud from taking place?

  • like harvard database (Score:3, Interesting)

    by peter303 ( 12292 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:36PM (#17966408)
    Some parts of Harvard such as the libraries call up one's picture as one enters. Harder to forge or distract the guards.

  • Good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @06:38PM (#17966432)
    Actually, this is not all that far off from an "identity clearinghouse" idea I had a while back.

    You voluntarily register in person with a government agency your name, address, and certain other personally-identifiable information of the sort that is required for a bank or other lender to grant you credit. When you apply for a new credit account somewhere, that lender sends a request to the government agency containing the PII that you provided to the lender. The government agency then contacts you to verify whether the credit request is valid. Then, the government agency responds to the lender, either stating that (1) the person is not in their records, (2) the person is in their records and has confirmed verification, or (3) the person is in their records and has denied verification. It would then be illegal for the lender to open an account for which the #3 response was given by the government, and the lender would be responsible for clearing up all the resultant credit problems.

    In order to modify your data with the agency, you must show up in person at the agency's office with photo ID. If such a system were implemented in coordination with local DMVs, they could use the photos on file for your driver's license.

    The government already has access to this data anyway, so allowing people to voluntarily put it to good use to stop identity theft is a good thing. The banks won't do it because the losses they suffer haven't reached the amount of money they think they'll lose if they start being more vigilant about credit applications.

  • Giving public accessing to the database is also designed to correct mistakes if an individual discovers that their name, number and picture don't match.
    Doesn't this defeat the purpose of of the database in the first place. Say you make a fake ID, you then access the database and correct the mistake that "your" name, number and picture don't match. You now have a valid ID.
    • I guess they have to prove who they are, like when your passport's surname is misspelled you have to prove with a birth certificate or something like that.
    • Record mistakes happen in large bureaucracies all the time, they would be stupid if they don't allow a reasonable mechanism for correcting mistakes by the citizens.

    • Surely the picture they give out online is of lower resolution than the original. If they're smart, it's also watermarked.

      Anyone have a link to the site, preferably along with a name and ID number so we can try it out?

  • I don't see how this helps for anything other than transactions that are conducted in person. Great, I can get picture of the person if I have their ID card info. It certainly doesn't help phone or internet transaction security.
    • Better than nothing. But if they wanted to do it right they'd include a signed public key. Then you'd at least be able to use it over the internet.

  • I am not a number! (Score:3, Funny)

    by bmo ( 77928 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @07:20PM (#17966824)
    Giving public accessing to the database is also designed to correct mistakes if an individual discovers that their name, number and picture don't match."

    Prisoner: Where am I?
    Number Two: In The Village.
    Prisoner: What do you want?
    Number Two: Information.
    Prisoner: Which side are you on?
    Number Two: That would be telling. We want information, information, information...
    Prisoner: You won't get it.
    Number Two: By hook or by crook we will.
    Prisoner: Who are you?
    Number Two: The new Number Two.
    Prisoner: Who is Number One?
    Number Two: You are Number Six.
    Prisoner: I am not a number. I am a free man.
    Number Two: Ha, ha, ha, ha.

    - Intro to "The Prisoner"

    --
    BMO

  • Convenience (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spiritraveller ( 641174 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @07:40PM (#17966992)
    Things can be very convenient when your government has a centralized database of all of its citizens, and isn't hampered by things like:
    Human rights
    Privacy rights
    Civil rights
  • I mean China is beating us in oppression..??! We gota' beat those F'in commies! We *need* Real_ID and RFID chips now, today.

    (note to mod: This is satire)

    • Re:The US has got to get with it.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @08:47PM (#17967460) Journal
      Note to parent: If you have to point out it's satire then it's poorly done.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Y0tsuya ( 659802 )
      The Chinese people have a different standard on what it means to be free. As far as most them are concerned, they already have enough freedom.

      The Taiwanese on the hand, could never seem to get enough freedom. They're quite opposite. Their press is very partisan, but also quite free. My only gripe is they could use some lessons in journalistic integrity.

      Before we Americans criticize the Chinese people for willingly accepting oppression, we should look at how we sheeple willingly submit to cavity chec

  • Everybody Named Chen Please Stand Up (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DumbSwede ( 521261 ) <slashdotbin@hotmail.com> on Saturday February 10, 2007 @08:22PM (#17967290) Homepage Journal
    A couple of quick observations from someone married to a Chinese national and has been to China five times. There are far fewer unique names in China both first and last and generally no middle name. Being able to uniquely identify people in China is a huge problem for private industry and government alike.

    I am all for national ID cards and a central database for all citizen info. You provide this info over and over and over to various local, state, and federal agencies. How about just one yearly form you update at tax time? Want to live off the grid? Tough, get over it. We are long past the point where armed insurrection is going to change the American government. The only people that NEED to live off the grid are criminals (I know I'll get some angry replies to that). Lets get rid of black markets, gray markets, and illegal immigration. Need jobs filled? Then either give a decent wage or issue enough citizenships to fill them. Guest Worker program? Just an excuse the screw the working class by artificially keeping wages low, not to mention creating a whole new officially sanctioned underclass.

    There are potentials for abuse to be sure, especially if third parties are allowed access (a practice I would like to see barred by law). But the gains to out society probably outweigh any theoretical down side. We're not talking papers you have to carry around or be arrested. We talking about a card you use when applying for jobs or bank accounts. I really don't understand all the hysteria surrounding the resistance to national databases or national IDs, though I'm sure some here will be all to anxious to enlighten me.
    • There are far fewer unique names in China both first and last and generally no middle name. Being able to uniquely identify people in China is a huge problem for private industry and government alike.

      Traditionally, China is the people of "One Hundred Names:"

      In many Western countries, there is a short list of popular 'first names,' but countless 'last names.' In China, it is just the reverse. The list of last name is short, and the number of first names is in the billions. This may be the reason that in W

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by smoker2 ( 750216 )
      So in short, just do what you're told, when you're told.

      Doesn't sound much like freedom to me.

    • Lets get rid of black markets, gray markets, and illegal immigration.

      OK. Eliminate transfer taxes (income tax and sales tax) and let people across the border freely. Legalize drugs. Legalize gambling. You've just gotten rid of black markets, gray markets and illegal immigration.

      What, you think giving people ID cards is going to do it?

      There are potentials for abuse to be sure, especially if third parties are allowed access (a practice I would like to see barred by law). But the gains to out society pr

  • Spam/Marketing? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Conception ( 212279 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @09:22PM (#17967676)
    So, this seems like a good idea with potential terrible consequences. Let's say I've got a bot net of a million machines. We run the bot-net on the database pages, trying random numbers, gathering a database of names, numbers and pictures. Then I take these names, id numbers and pictures and start making IDs maybe? Or using photo recognition to classify people into different groups for spam/marketing purposes, or maybe by ethnicity by last name, or match it up to a directory service and getting addresses and all...

    Of course, this could probably be defeated with enough, "Mother's maiden name?" sorta questions and all, but just seems like a ripe source of information that you may not want getting out. By itself, it's not so damaging, but paired with other resources, perhaps it's the last piece in a perfect identity fraud scheme.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by icydog ( 923695 )
      You have a good point, but I'd like to point out a little thing regarding China -- If by mother's maiden name you mean last name, then 10 last names will probably account for half of China's population. That would only mean 10x more work for the botnet. (And in China, your mother didn't change her name when she got married, it stayed the same.)

    • If you've got a botnet with a million computers, access to a directory service with names and addresses, and can already determine ethnicity by last name, is it really that big of a deal that you also have people's pictures?

      You've got a point with the fake ID thing, I guess, but if the photos are of low enough resolution and/or are watermarked that might make that less effective.

  • Just the first step, next is DNA sampling with retinal scans and RFIDs embedded at birth. I'm sure they will be the first with Borg-like implants too. Can you say "hive mind"?

    Privacy has been going bye-bye for 5,000 years. This is just another step. On the other side, getting the dossier on every person in China will be reduced to one database dump by a CIA cracker/agent. Efficient espionage, ya gotta love technology!

  • One step closer to preventing Freedom and Liberty from ever entering China.

    When will China be FREE? Could China ever be FREE???

    It sure is a lot less likely with more 1984'ish types of tracking and control. How can you protest a communist government without ending up in the clink? Anoninimity is the best way.

  • Baby Steps (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Duncan3 ( 10537 ) on Saturday February 10, 2007 @11:39PM (#17968680) Homepage
    This is merely a toy compared to what Google has on every US citizen. Equifax has the rest, and the CIA ties it all together.

    The difference is what China has planned actually sounds useful to everyone, not just the watchers. An old idea, tried many times, but the bad guys want to be the only ones with that info.

  • What about errors and harassment? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Quantum Jim ( 610382 ) <jfcst24&yahoo,com> on Saturday February 10, 2007 @11:53PM (#17968770) Homepage Journal

    I'm not so sure about this system. There must be errors in the database. What happens to the unfortunate individuals who don't match because of such an error? This also can be an easy way for the Chinese government to censor people.

    If someone says something that the government doesn't like, they just insert an "error" into the database. Instant harassment that those poor individuals will have to go through before the error is fixed. Or even worse, the government could not admit to the change and simply lock the person up on fraud.

  • He already announced that if America was a disctatorship it would be OK as long as he was running it.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • After all these years... Goodness! To prevent Fraud. I hope I am not "prevented".

  • Prevent fraud by giving the fraudsters tools? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kirth ( 183 ) on Sunday February 11, 2007 @07:35AM (#17971204) Homepage
    Of course, China might want to install its own big-brother database for reasons of central control and other fascist means. But I won't go into that.

    Because the one thing that database won't do is help against fraudsters. Actually, it will help them. Contrary to ones belief, fraud goes up as more data about people is collected.

    You'll notice that the credit-card fraud-rate is lower in europe, where we have relatively strong data-protection laws, than in the USA where personal data is protected less.

    And any database which is generated will have its abuse (by users entering false data, by legitimate users using it for illegal means, by people illegally accessing it), the more it encompassess the more bodies will need access to it, the more it will be abused, and the first thing you will notice is a definitive increase in fraud.

    So contrary to the common assumption that these databases will help to combat crime, they will foster crime.

    • You'll notice that the credit-card fraud-rate is lower in europe, where we have relatively strong data-protection laws, than in the USA where personal data is protected less.

      I'm interested in privacy issues, and wasn't aware of that. What do you think accounts for the difference in fraud-rate? Is it because Europe's laws require companies to handle credit card numbers themselves more carefully? Or because companies are required to more carefully handle the identifying information that could be used to op

  • Anyone can now send a text message or visit the country's population information center's website, to check if the name and the ID number of a person's identity card match.

    There aren't any pictures, but the IRS already has a TIN matching program [irs.gov] which lets "authorized payers" "Match the payee W-9 name [the person's name] and TIN [the person's social security number] with IRS records".

    TIN Matching is part of a suite of internet based pre-filing e-services that allow "authorized payors" the opportunity to m

  • floatin population (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dingDaShan ( 818817 )
    China has massive class division between rich and poor. Rural dwellers are treated as second class citizens and mandated to have a city residence permit (which usually cost several times their annual income and can take months to get) to live in the city and earn a decent wage. There is currently a crackdown because of the Beijing Olympics and this may be part of it as another way to move the illegal rural people (the floating population) out of the cities. An ID card would make it easy to crosscheck wit

  • Immigration and SSNs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Garrett Fox ( 970174 ) on Sunday February 11, 2007 @10:43AM (#17972142) Homepage
    I haven't yet seen people make the connection between such a database and a proposed US one meant to let employers confirm that their employees are citizens or legal residents. Right now our enforcement of immigration law is a joke because these people can find jobs with employers who look the other way when they use fake Social Security numbers, right? For once I'm going to say this database policy is a reasonable move. Of course China wants it for more than keeping out illegal immigrants from North Korea, but there really is a legitimate use for it in the US.
  • I'm not worried. At least, not until the Chinese build a massless online ID database.

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