How To Tell If Your Cell Phone Is Bugged 338
Lauren Weinstein writes to point us to his essay on the realities of using an idle cell phone as a bug, as a recent story indicated the FBI may have done in a Mafia case. From the essay: "There is no magic in cell phones. From a transmitting standpoint, they are either on or off... It is also true that some phones can be remotely programmed by the carrier to mask or otherwise change their display and other behaviors in ways that could be used to fool the unwary user. However, this level of remote programmability is another feature that is not universal... But remember — no magic! When cell phones are transmitting — even as bugs — certain things are going to happen every time that the alert phone user can often notice."
How to tell (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How to tell (Score:5, Funny)
Signed,
Look at the color of the wires (Score:5, Funny)
Other colors are not defined by the standards, so if your phone has wires which are not green, nor red - you have a counterfeit phone.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not a bug (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not a bug (Score:4, Funny)
--Robert Gates [wikipedia.org]
Re:Not a bug (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not a bug (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a bug, it's the future
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In the essay, the EMI problems (normally a bug/annoyance) are used as an indication your phone is doing something it shouldn't.
great advice (Score:5, Funny)
For example, when using a Palm Treo 650, the phone will crash and reset often, and without notice.
Figure out which app it is and delete it. (Score:3, Funny)
Easy way to detect a bugged phone (Score:5, Interesting)
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It can just be using the mic and battery for its service, but generally the chirps would give it fully away.
Hell, if done properly it might wait until an actual call is in progress and then push its buffer upstream.
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TFA isn't about hardware bugs, but software that hijacks your phone to send signals clandestinely.
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Im sure they would love this.
Does it sound like Capt obvious here just got his first mobile telephonic device? fta
But if you're not on a call, and you hear a continuing rapid buzz-buzz-buzz in nearby speakers that lasts more than a few seconds and gets louder as you approach with your phone, well, the odds are that your phone is busily transmitting, and bugging is a definite possibility.
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I would strongly advice against using them. They take some of the radiation energy to make them light up, which makes the phone think that the coverage is worse than it is which in turn
Re:Easy way to detect a bugged phone (Score:5, Funny)
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In effect, the phone radiates more than necessary and the battery gets drained faster.
The idea is to detect if the phone is listening while a call is not being made. We already know that FBI listens to criminals during the actual phone calls (through the service provider, the old way). And cell phone radiation is a problem only when the phone is next to one's brain. Since the flasher has no function while a call is being made (it flashes anyway) so it can be taken off if radiation is being considered
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I don't know what typical cell-phone batteries are rated for, but for example for two typical NiMH AA cells (2800 mAh each), the LEDs are probably using no more than about 3-6% of the total battery capacity per hour (depending on how many and what kind and how bright the LEDs are; 3% would be about 10 typical red LEDs, 15 mA @ 1.7V).
*boggle* (Score:4, Informative)
A cell phone is nothing more than a fancy radio with an omnidirectional antenna. That antenna, per its name, is going to radiate a certian amount of RF energy in all directions. RF that is radiated in the direction of the cell tower will be recieved by the antennas on the tower. RF that is radiated in any other direction will gradually be absorbed by the surrounding environment to no practical effect. So if your LED RF detector happens to be in the close vicinity of your cell phone when the phone is transmitting, it's going to be hit with RF that wouldn't have hit the cell tower anyway!
The only possibly conceivable way that the LED RF detector could have any impact on the signal strength between the cell phone and the cell tower is if it was exactly in the path between the cell phone antenna and the cell tower antenna. The probability that this would occur is so small as to be trivial, and with the wide angle of radiation on most cell phone tower antennas, and the fact that there is usually more than one antenna for any direction, reduces the probability effectively to zero.
Re:*boggle* (Score:5, Informative)
The GSM radio wavelength is about 30cm which means that in effect all objects which affect the radio path, including the transmitter and LED receiver, are "blurry" in space to the scale of 30cm (this is an order of magnitude, not an exact value). The phone itself, and the distance from the LEDs, are much smaller than that. So the directionality of the radiation is nearly irrelevant to calculating how much is absorbed and transmitted.
In other words, contrary to the parent post, the LEDs attached to the phone will be effectively on the radio path to the base station, no matter where they are attached on the phone.
It's counterintuitive that you can have a radio signal between two small antennae at A and B, and something that's nearly in between but off by say 10cm affecting the signal between A and B, is though attracting the energy towards it (even bending the beam is possible). But that is exactly what happens. Waves are like that.
It's more complicated than that, however, because the LEDs are also in the "near field" - the region where there may be a non-radiating component to the oscillating EM field around the phone transmitter. In this region, the LEDs could, if they are constructed to do so, absorb energy from the near field, and, depending very much on the phone design, potentially do it without affecting the radiated signal.
Also, it is possible that they absorb some of the radiated energy but if they use very little power, not affect it very much.
So we can't easily say what effect the LEDs will have on the transmitted signal, but the parent's argument about having to be "exactly on the path" to the transmitter, as in a straight line, is not correct.
-- Jamie
No content (Score:5, Insightful)
Should have been titled (Score:2)
Honestly...
Mobster gratitude (Score:2)
In return I offer 3 cheap bug puns for you to enjoy:
It's a feature, not a bug!
My phone isn't bugged, but I'm bugged by my phone.
If insects fall out of your phone, it's bugged!
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Good night.
Bug Detector (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry FBI for killing your wiretap program.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I know you were trying to be funny. But I seriously doubt this will kill this wiretap program. Criminals are idiots. Most people are idiots. Take for example, this journalist [theatlantic.com] who bought an unencrypted al qaeda laptop. Or how about the regular stories of criminals using yee old delete command to delete incriminating evidence. The world will continue to turn, criminals will continue to use cellphones, and the FBI will continue to bug them.
My experience - They're more advanced... (Score:4, Interesting)
This time, though, I it asked if I could verify a purchase for "theme park tickets," "appliances," and some other things. I told it no, and an amazingly easy 15 minutes later, my account was frozen, all the obvious charges were rolled back, and a new card was on the way, along with some paperwork for me to flag other charges that the CC company missed.
The scammers had my old address apparently. I knew this because they tried to order a convection oven (who'd have figured?) and have it shipped to my old address. My guess is that this is the address in whatever database that got cracked. When I did get my next statement, I noticed a few charges to some random "music store"
It turns out that credit card company had cancelled far more of these "song" purchases, and "donations." The thieves had made, over a few weeks, donations of varying amounts from a few cents to about $2, and random song purchases of about $1. It seems that they were trying to establish that I was "normally" spending money in the area where I used to live, and also verifying that my card was still legit.
So yeah, some criminals are dumb. Others are not. The fraud detection systems we have are pretty good though.
How to tell if your cell phone is bugged... (Score:3, Funny)
First Privacy, Then Those Other Freedoms... (Score:4, Insightful)
This has always stood as one of those easily reinterpreted components of the constitution -- just look at the way the US Supreme Court enjoys reinterpreting [erowid.org] it. And, to some degree, I do see why this should be interpreted in a somewhat fluid way. There are terrorists/freedom fighters out there, and governments should be capable of protecting their citizens-- that is what they're ultimately designed to do.
However, the egregious trampling of our right to privacy, as outlined in the US constitution, starts moving us very quickly in the direction of fascism [wikipedia.org]. And people tend to use the term fascism lightly, but you have to ask yourself how a state can move from one type of government to another? History has shown that this happens everywhere -- just [wikipedia.org] look [wikipedia.org] at [wikipedia.org] history [wikipedia.org]
So, why would I take a break from my ultimate presentation on latency markers in tuberculosis? Well, I feel strongly that you (the person reading this, not just the general "you") should take it upon yourself to encourage those people that you vote for to stand up and strengthen the first levee against tyranny -- our right to privacy. The FBI may, at this point, consider using your cell phone to track you as a legitimate means to and end, but when the FBI cycles through it's current leadership/membership then we can only hope that these means lead to good ends.
And the hope that people mean well is not something I am willing to risk.
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So, my phone can be tapped without a warrant, but I can't find out who the Vice President met with from the Oil Industry when creating an energy policy. And a Supreme Court justice who voted to maintain the VP's private meeting goes hunting with the VP just before the decision comes down.
My only com
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I know that Imperial Japan is widely interpreted as being a fascist state, but Westerners really don't seem to understand that fascism and proto-fascism were ideologies based around European historical constructs (like German Romanticism) that don't apply to a country like Japan. I do understand that the term will frequently be thrown around because of the unique historical status of Japan as the only non-Wes
Now that's sorta funny (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, no offense meant, but it's sorta funny to hear that coming from the _USA_.
What you have over there is some vague principle, that, as you say, is constantly being reinterpreted to mean, "yeah, well, it says we can't search your papers, but your computer's files are still fair game" or "yeah, well, once you gave that info to someone e
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Absolutely not.
1. It's un-American (anything those Europeans do is by default).
2. It could hurt the economy.
3. It most definitely helps the terrorists.
4. Since when did the US ever take advice from backwater countries in the middle of nowhere ?
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A man living under the Franco dictatorship asked a sympathetic secret policeman how to stay out of trouble with the government.
The secret policeman didn't pull out the usual lie "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear". The secret policeman didn't say "Just obey the law". The advice was far simpler:
"Be invisible".
What about recording to internal memory? (Score:3, Insightful)
The amount of memory and processors in some modern phones makes this a possibility...
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Compress what you want and then send it as burst transmission.
Old, old news (Score:4, Funny)
It's been long known that;
1. some providers can download arbitrary software to some phones
2. a phone can be running that software while appearing not to be making a call
The potential for abuse is obvious.
I gave up my mobile phone about a month ago now. I read through a full list of the ways in which the British State monitors me. When you read them all at once, it has quite an impact. The simple question I have is this: I am completely innocent. I have commited no crimes and am not suspected of committing any crimes.
SO WHY AM I BEING WATCHED?
Re:Old, old news (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that anyone can live in Britain today and not commit any crimes. You've never driven over 70mph on a motorway? You've never put recyclable waste in your dustbin?
There are so many laws in Britain today that you're pretty much a criminal the instant you get out of bed; in fact, you're probably a criminal if you stay in bed all day too. The real problem is _too many laws_, not too many criminals; if the cops stopped chasing people for bullshit crimes with high-tech gadgetry they could get all the real criminals off the streets.
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Re:Old, old news.. I might be bugged... (Score:3)
What's REALLY weird, is during November, on no fewer than THREE outbound calls, I got cross-connected with OTHER people wh
Re:Old, old news (Score:5, Interesting)
The calls I made from my mobile had the time of the call, my location and the phone number called recorded.
All the websites I visit, have the domain name recorded.
All the emails I sent have the time of sending and the receipient recorded.
When I pay by credit card, the location, time and amount of the transaction are recorded.
When I cycle into town, I go past about six cameras - I'm recorded by each one.
All of this information is available to the State without any form of judicial oversight. A policeman on a whim could keep a very close watch on my life.
So I'm not being paranoid here - this list *IS* the list of the monitoring conducted on all of us.
I've committed no crime. I'm totally innocent.
Why am I being monitored? why does the State have to keep records of who I talk to and when I talk to them and where I am when I talk to them? am I suspected of something? I'm not. So why? because I *might* do something? that's outrageous! and in fact it's proper tantamout to suspecting me of something - it is suspected that I *might* commit a crime, which is just a weaker version of we *do* suspect you comitted a crime.
What people don't realise is that although the State has always recorded plenty of information on us, the game has changed because of computers. Computers plus surveillance isn't just more of the same; it's something utterly new and *different*.
Re:Old, old news (Score:4, Insightful)
That's it, you win the doublespeak award this week and it's not even Tuesday yet. Your extremely light two sentences about Belgium announcing "mobile control" whatever that is, doesn't defend the above quote in the least. It's also a logical fallacy. People are not innocent only because they are being watched, they can be innocent just because they ARE, they don't need to be monitored to force them into that state. Others may (or may not) check their behavior knowing they are under surveillance, but being watched is certainly not a prerequisite for obeying the law.
The reason 'they' - the state - monitor you is to catch you doing something wrong, anything. Maybe it wasn't even illegal last week, but it is this week and now you're guilty. With the huge numbers of laws on the books everyone is almost guaranteed to be guilty of something at some point, the only problem has been catching everyone in the act of breaking some law. With ubiquitous surveillance, monitoring algorithms, etc. the state now, more than any other time in history, can keep a dirty file on everyone. The state can only punish criminals, but if everyone is a criminal then the state has achieved another level of control and can selectively enforce prosecution at will to manipulate, coherce, and consolidate more power. That particular 'power' may even be something as minor as increasing traffic ticket revenue, but the result is the same.
er, tin-foil hat (Score:5, Interesting)
Hello,
Just as an experiment, I tried placing my cell phone into an anti-static mylar baggy and the signal went from 100% to 40% (or five bars to two). Repeating this with tin foil with a small opening to see the LCD (about 1cm^2) reduced the signal to 20% (or one bar).
I am wondering that if someone wants to have a private verbal conversation sans listeners on the cell phone, all they have to do is place their cell phone in metal box?
This would seem much more convenient than having to pull the battery out, as well as reduce wear and tear on the contacts or thin plastics of today's cell phones.
Perhaps someone who is a bit more familiar with electronics could explain whether or not a "tin foil hat" (or a metal box or foil bag, ala Enemy of the State) for a cell phone would work?
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
Re:er, tin-foil hat (Score:4, Informative)
Secondly, those bars are more a qualitative information than a quantitative one, at 4 or 5 bars, the signal is clear with low power, with less bars, it means that there are transmition errors or that the radio needs a boost, either way, it is an indication to the phone it might be a good idea to look for another base station, but only a "no signal" notification will prove (if you can trust your phone display) that it is incapable of communication. If you shield your phone, it won't see any good base station and will lose a lot of energy scanning the frequencies looking for one.
You can try to shield your phone, but then, you need to test its effciency. I once tried to put a phone in a tin box and I still could call it. Of course, grounding that box terminated the call.
So I would say shielding is a lot of effort for what you want, if you are only slightly paraniod, shut the bugger down, if you are a real paranoid, leave it at your place with the TV on (during a movie you already saw, in case they will check your alibi) then use the bus to meet whoever you need in a parking lot.
Oh so much easier in the old russian times (Score:4, Funny)
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Somewhere in a poorly lit dockyard... (Score:5, Funny)
Gangster 2. NO! Shh! Keep your voice down until you dial out — that thing could be bugged.
Phone. "This phone is not being used as a covert surveillance device. Please continue to arrange your morally and/or legally questionable activities as normal."
Gangster 1. Muh?!
Phone. "Please ignore this message."
Real columbian businessmen, or Dlords.... (Score:3, Interesting)
They use high tech RF mapping signature maps to see where there are dark spots
in the FBis monitoring systems.
If your making billions in profit each year, you can afford to spend $5-10m in custom design hardware from china
or fly 1000s of flights to map the intercepts.
Only part time low lifes use mobiles, because they cannot afford anything greater than $200USD, which means they must
be very small time crooks.
What about bugging computers? (Score:2, Insightful)
All current laptops have microphones and some have built in cameras. Desktops also usually have microphones and often have cameras. Many have continuous internet access. Computers are ubiquitous and th
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If we are talking Windows Genuine, then, delivering something to a specific Windows registration code should be trivial.
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Is there any evidence? (Score:3, Insightful)
But, it seems, all this craze comes from some over-paranoid tinhats and has no grounding in reality.
buzzing razor mobile (Score:2)
I'm far too boring to be bugged anyway.
Anyone else have a razor that buzzes all the time?
I have the ultimate protection against snoopers... (Score:3, Funny)
Risks (Score:2)
Could someone listen in on my cell phone? Maybe I don't know. To be honest if they did most of what they are going to hear is my calling neighbors to arange a lift home after work or me talking to my wife about important things like does she wan
If you're a real bad guy.. (Score:2)
Now, if your communications were encrypted end-end with hard encryption with keys you control, this would be a moot point. Coming soon to a VOIP / programmable cell phone near you.
Cells are never off..... (Score:2, Interesting)
First off, cell phones have batteries internally, much like the battery your mobo has to keep it's settings.
Why would cell phones differ? Take your main battery out, the time/alarm/etc settings are saved, doesn't that give you any clues?
The phone is powered at any given time, it's not a matter of whether the screen is lit or not...
They could, and can, and do, use cell phones as bugs, there's nothing new to that.
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Slow news day? (Score:2)
Not entirely reliable advice (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, not being able to make a call when a call is in progress. In time division multiplexing, you're taking one or two timeslots out of eight or sixteen. However, it's pretty clear that if we have modified the phone ostensible behavior enough to use it as a bug, it could also take more than one half channel at a time.
Checking the warmth of the phone is good idea, but not perfect either. The assumption is that the phone is transmitting your words live. What if the phone recorded your conversations at a reduced bit rate, say 3kb/sec, using voice activiation. It could the be stored and dribbled out intermittently, particularly when close to a cell tower. This would reduce telltale power effects. This might not be enough to monitor your every waking moment, but it could be used to monitor snatches of your conversation, particularly as part of a surveillance program.
Even if the phone doesn't transmit your speech, it could use the signally channel to record that you are talking, combined with the GPS or wi-fi snooping, over time the network of people you talk to could be recontructed.
It's a bit paranoid to worry about these things, unless you think the government has a compelling reason to snoop on you. But if you do have such a reason, then you shouldn't make too many assumptions about what they could do with a phone, particularly a "smart" phone which might have megabytes of storage. A simpler phone with a removable battery would be a good choice.
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Zing! (Score:5, Funny)
On Star (Score:2)
I missed this when it happened, but I always suspected as much. Imagine this...
Driver: Hand me another brewski.
Passenger: Here you go.
...Police cruiser shows up in r
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I am pretty sure that you can find kits on line that add an LED that lights up when you the mic is active or a switch that kills them mike
How to tell (Score:4, Funny)
Wait 30 minutes.
If there are no black helicopters after 30 minutes then you probably aren't being bugged.
Don't bother - One time pad is the way to go (Score:3, Funny)
8-16 *different* friends to each buy you a prepaid phone. Number them.
When you need to make a call, roll the die, use the phone, toss it in
the trash or better, give it to a random teenager to use up the minutes.
That doesn't work, here's why (Score:5, Interesting)
When I bought one with cash, just after I bought it, I received wrong number calls, but the people involved didn't seem to want to hang up like normal wrong number calls.
Them: "Is Mark there?"
Me: "I'm sorry, there's no Mark here, you must have a wrong number."
Them: "I'm sorry, are you sure you're not mark"
Me: "you have a wrong number"
Them: "Oh my mistake, thanks again erm Mr erm...." pauses to see if you'll complete the sentence.
This happened again and again and again, different scripts, but always a wrong number guy who just wouldn't go away. Until one day my wife answered and said my name.
Her: "No this is ???????'s phone"
After that I never received another wrong number call.
Now I put that down to random chance, since I'm not worth spying on. But then my wife got a new pre-pay mobile, again she paid cash, and sure enough she got the same pattern of calls. We were talking about it yesterday, when the phone rang, and it was woman this time, who again was a wrong number, but didn't seem to want to hang up.
Many different phone numbers used each time, we're building a list.
Re:That doesn't work, here's why (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:That doesn't work, here's why (Score:4, Funny)
Re:That doesn't work, here's why (Score:5, Funny)
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"Hello?"
"Hi, this is $name from O2. We're calling to tell you about $promotion"
"Ok, if it'll save me money"
"First, for security can we confirm your full name?"
"You don't know my name"
"I can accept that as an answer. N
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There are also other similar calls in the UK that are scams. When telcos first dish out mobile numbers, the prefix shows the operator. I got mine over ten years ago and the original operator is now known as "BT Cellnet". I've since transfered three or four times over the years, each time taking my number with me. I am not currently a BT Cellent customer.
However, now and then I'll get a phone call asking me if I want to upgrade my "BT Cellnet" phone. They try their best to sound like the actual operator, b
Hanlon's Razor (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm saying it because something similar happened on my normal (non-mobile) phone line. And the Deutsche Telekom certainly had all my data there, so there would have been no need for such a masquerade.
Anyway, someone wi
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(In any case, this Hanlon fellow sounds like a big, gullible sucker. Scam artists thrive on people who attribute their malice to incompetence/stupidity.)
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What you're experiencing may be an attempt (made by whoever) to respon
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In the UK there's no requirement to even pretend to take ID. You can buy a phone for cash, a SIM for cash, top-up minutes for cash, etc, etc.
It's a classic case of `unintended consequences': the assumption circa 1995 was that the big criminal issue was theft of service. At the time the only way to get a mobile was on a contract: you needed a bank account that
The real answer to 'who are they'- Bill Collectors (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The real answer to 'who are they'- Bill Collect (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm currently stationed overseas, and I got into a car accident while on leave in the States. The other party decided to sue for damages (I love living in America) and my insurance company played the "he's overseas serving the country, are you honestly going to force him to come back to deal with this?" card, the judge agreed, and delayed the trial until my tour's up, which at the time was more than two years.
My wife has been getting calls on her cell phone (she's still in the states) that go like this:
"Is binarytoaster there?" "...No, he's overseas." *click*
It's honestly that fast from the way she puts it - they just ask if I'm there, and upon getting that answer they just hang up. Never say who they are, never leave a number, nothing. Been going on for at least a few months now.
She was completely confused by why anyone would do this, as was I, until I remembered the lawsuit. So they might not be collectors, but they're still just as annoying.
Re:That doesn't work, here's why (Score:4, Funny)
Mark: Hello. My name is Mark. Is there any messages for me?
I'll try to record the conversations (Score:2, Interesting)
After that it has so far been 10 months of no wrong calls.
I asked her why she told a total stranger my full name, and she said it was the way he persisted in talking, the conversation naturally led to a poi
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Re:I'll try to record the conversations (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'll try to record the conversations (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Start a pre-paid phone company.
2. With each new activation, call the new user 10 to 12 times making each call last at least 5 minutes.
3. User is forced to buy more minutes for the phone.
4. Profit!
Layne
I think it's call log profiling (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think they are interested in me or my wife, (not that they know she's my wife). I think they are profiling all telephone calls for patterns of interconnection.
We both make international calls to the far east, and I think we score highly on some equation in a computer somewhere. International calls from prepay phones in foreign languages where the phones were paid for in c
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Re:I think it's call log profiling (Score:4, Funny)
Osama, is that you?
Re:I think it's call log profiling (Score:4, Funny)
No, it's Mark. Get it right.
Re:Disposable phones (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Disposable phones (Score:5, Funny)
It's easier said than done. There aren't as many payphones about as there used to be*, and a lot of those that are left require phone cards.
Then, when you do find a suitable one, how do you know it isn't bugged already?
Lastly, getting a roll of dimes from the just isn't that easy in most of the countries in the world. Of course, most of the world's payphones don't accept dimes either...
-- Steve
* The UK has a unique situation: while the number of payphones in the UK may have decreased, the number of British Telephone Boxes has remained about the same - they've just moved to more exotic locations in other countries. The same goes for British Police Boxes, except that their movements appear not to be limited to the first three dimensions.
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And a time machine...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payphone [wikipedia.org]
"In the United States, the coin rate for a local direct-dialed station-to-station call from a payphone has been 50 in most areas since mid-2001"
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Re:Cipher indicator (Score:4, Insightful)
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NOT when they are OFF - which is the point of the article.
The question to be asked are: what models of cell phone (if any) cannot be really turned off? I'm quite sure my antique Nokia 3310 does not check with the network every 15 minutes (or EVER) when it is OFF. Otherwise, the batteries of a seldom used phone wouldn't last for months between charges.
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