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Privacy Government Politics

Australians to Increases Surveillance Powers? 63

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the i-only-communicate-with-dixi-cups-and-string dept.
Anonymous Coward writes to tell us The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that new laws being presented to parliament this week would allow police and spy agencies additional power to monitor communications of people not suspected of any crime. From the article: "Under the changes, police will be able to tap the phone calls and trace the emails and text messages of third parties to suspected crimes. Police will have 45 days to monitor a person not under suspicion in the hope it will lead them to the person or people they do suspect."
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Australians to Increases Surveillance Powers? More

Australians to Increases Surveillance Powers?

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  • Decline of the West? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by (1+-sqrt(5))*(2**-1) ( 868173 ) <1.61803phi@gmail.com> on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @05:05AM (#14723137) Homepage
    There is a sense in which the decay of organization and government issues in one selfsame behaviour: the will, at all costs, to maintain power.

    “Democracy,” too, was a catchphrase of Communist tyranny; whither our democracies appear to be degenerating.

    • Democracy has been dead in Australia ever since the day Gough Whitlam was sacked (1975).
      • I don't think that the Prime Minister that nearly bankrupted the country through uncontrolled spending really should be considered the model for Democracy. He was also involved in the secret plot to borrow large amounts of money from shady international loan sharks to finance the budget shortfall that his Government had created.

        I'm not denying that his Government had some good ideas. But the implementation of these ideas was sorely lacking in good judgement and morality. Gough Whitlam was removed from offic

  • My View (Score:5, Informative)

    by zaguar ( 881743 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @05:18AM (#14723170)
    This isn't unexpected. Howards government has been steadily eroding Australians powers ever since 9/11. The "Alert - But not alarmed" is the Aussie equivalent to the Orange/Red terror alerts in America. The Howard Government has been steadily increasing the fear levels in the population. They recently voted on a bill that would allow incarceration without charge for around 90 days IIRC. AFAIK it wasn't passed after human rights activists won a minor victory for freedom. But the bill was strongly supporded by the Government (Liberal Party) and they have got the majority by a long way after the Mark Latham experiment.

    To recap - This is just another assault on privacy by the Liberal Party. It may not pass now, but it will someday, and when that day comes - I'm moving across the ditch to New Zealand

    In case you can't tell - I'm an Australian resident

    • Re:My View (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Oldsmobile ( 930596 )
      Hasn't the Australian government had intern camps for non residents for years now? Barbed wire ringed camps out in the desert for concentrating illegals in the same place?

      I haven't heard of those for a few years now.

      • Re:My View (Score:3, Informative)

        by lachlan76 ( 770870 )
        They're still around...much of the country still hates the Detention Centers though (to my knowledge). You're right though, they've been a bit quiet lately...

        They keep people in there long enough that children are born in there and don't get out until they're already school-age. Not very nice, to say the least.
      • Hasn't the Australian government had intern camps for non residents for years now?

        No. "Non residents" who are in the country legally are free to move around the country as they please.

        Barbed wire ringed camps out in the desert for concentrating illegals in the same place?

        Actually it's for keeping illegal immigrants away from everyone else and making escape difficult and inadvisable.

        • I guess this is the kind of reasoning that let other countries in history get away with similar things.

          Not that I'd be evoking Godwin's law or anything...
          • I guess this is the kind of reasoning that let other countries in history get away with similar things.

            Considering that a) no-one is getting killed or in forced labour (indeed, quite the opposite) and b) they're free to leave whenever they want, I fail to see what's "similar" about them.

            Which countries are you thinking of that have zero immigration controls and that don't remove illegal immigrants when they are identified ?

          • I can't help but notice that you made a vague reference to something that you clearly don't know much about and then when somebody provides some factual information to you, you respond with a massive generalisation. Nice flamebait.

    • Re:My View (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think I'll join you... Always wanted to see the hobbitses.

    • They recently voted on a bill that would allow incarceration without charge for around 90 days

      The first time I read this, I read that to be "...would allow incineration without charge..."

      You had me wondering if our U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez had moved down-under! :)
    • Need a flatmate in NZ?

      I hear its beautiful weather down there.. oh and they're not fascists... which is nice.

    • Re:My View (Score:3, Interesting)

      by babbling ( 952366 )

      I don't think New Zealand will be that much better than Australia, for long.

      I, too, am an Australian citizen, and I can see myself leaving the fascist country that Australia is becoming within the next 5 years. Australia used to be a wonderful country until John Howard. Anyway, Canada and Sweden are looking pretty good, at the moment.

      Did you know that Australians are eligible for refugee status in countries that comply with the UN convention relating to the status of refugees [wikipedia.org] since the sedition laws were

  • Pure evil (Score:4, Informative)

    by micpp ( 818596 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @05:22AM (#14723179) Homepage
    The thing about the Australian government as it stands today is that it's just pure evil. If a report came tomorrow that John Howard likes to kill puppies it would not suprise me at all. The only reason he's still around is due to a generally incompetent opposition.
    • Much the same could be said for Tony Blair and George Bush. (I currently languish under the former, not that I voted for him; and neither did about 70% of the population, most of whom couldn't be arsed even to turn up for the last election. The Matrix has you.)
    • The thing about the Australian government as it stands today is that it's just pure evil.

      If you think the Australian Government is "evil", then you're in desperate need of some context, or the word "evil" is completely meaningless your world.

    • Re:Pure evil (Score:3, Insightful)

      by RobotRunAmok ( 595286 )
      The thing about the Australian government as it stands today is that it's just pure evil.

      And from your "blog:" [blogspot.com]

      I've been bored recently, but for some reason I'm too lazy to take the effort to do anything entertaining, like getting my PS2 plugged into my TV again.
      I'm really pathetic.

      I guess Mr. Howard -- and Messrs. Blair and Bush, for that matter -- is fortunate that they don't make Angry Young Men like they used to.

    • Re:Pure evil (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Paraplex ( 786149 )
      The reason he's still around is because people are trained to think in a bipartisan manner... to think of things in black or white.

      They have up or down, black or white, good or evil, left or right, liberal or conservative. Its a symptom of the maturity of our civilisation, and hopefully the next 50 years will see the population as a whole grow beyond this and eradicate the absurd bipartisan system.

      Theres not black or white. there aren't even shades of gray. There's a spectrum of colours of varying intensity

    • The only reason he's still around is due to a generally incompetent opposition.

      While the Left as a whole may not be terribly adept at presenting themselves as a viable governing authority, your attitude seems to match the American Democratic Party's line: Bush is evil, the Republicans are evil, all conservatives of all stripes are evil, so elect us instead.

      And yet the Left keeps losing. Has it ever occurred to you, just for a second, that maybe most of the populations of the US, UK, and Australia don't thin

      • I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I'm used to that. The majority of people are sheep, and I call the opposition incompetent due to their failure to influence them in any reasonable volume.
      • While the Left as a whole may not be terribly adept at presenting themselves as a viable governing authority, your attitude seems to match the American Democratic Party's line:

        The Labor party isn't a left wing party - it's centrist with a number of right-wing factions. The reason they don't win elections has nothing to do with ideology, it's because they are more incompetent than the Liberals, which is an outstanding feat in itself...

        • The Labor party isn't a left wing party - it's centrist with a number of right-wing factions.


          Maybe if you're a socialist, but sorry, everyone [wikipedia.org] else [australianpolitics.com] puts it in the left side of the political spectrum.
          • Maybe if you're a socialist, but sorry, everyone else puts it in the left side of the political spectrum.

            That's mostly a historical perspective. Just as the Liberal party is no longer liberal, the Labor party used to represent workers, but has long since left its roots behind. From the linked Wikipedia article:

            The left says that Labor has abandoned its traditional base and values and that its policies are indistinguishable from those of the Coalition.

            It's not only the left that says that now. Even ou

    • Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

  • Freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lennart78 ( 515598 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @06:01AM (#14723249)
    And another victory for Bin Laden and co. Everytime a Western government implements laws like these, he comes a step closer to achieve his goal: Undermining Western civilization, economics and politics, and that without incurring any cost, be it monetary or people.

    • Re:Freedom? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Threni ( 635302 )
      > his goal: Undermining Western civilization, economics and politics,

      If you've read any interviews with Bin Laden you'll know his only goal is to get the `infidels` out of Muslim countries, especially Saudi Arabia, and now Afghanistan and Iraq. He has never expressed any interest in economics or politics.

    • Re:Freedom? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by babbling ( 952366 )
      This has nothing to do with terrorism. "Terrorism" is just the excuse that they are using to implement these laws, in the same way that "piracy and viruses" are the excuses that Microsoft are using to take control of peoples' computers away from them.

      The US, Britain and Australia are basically just locking down the world as quickly as they can. I don't think anyone really knows why they are doing this, but the "to stop terrorism" excuse is obviously bullshit. It's unlikely these governments are naive enough
      • I disagree.

        I think the more likely issue here is that the Government is facing a threat that it doesn't know how to deal with. It is just trying to look like it is doing something that might prove effective. How do you deal with any enemy that isn't interested in negotiating? How do you deal with an enemy that is not embodied in the form of a single state, with definite leadership?
        Historically, Governments have dealt with Terrorists ineffectively - look at the British Government with the IRA. But at least t

  • Security Camera Registry (Score:5, Informative)

    by omegashenron ( 942375 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @06:14AM (#14723270)

    Doesnt come as a surprise given the following plans.

    NSW plans new security camera regime [abc.net.au].

    I think it is safe to say that we are all potential criminals.

  • Governments everywhere, and political terror (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Morgaine ( 4316 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @06:31AM (#14723314)
    1984 is creeping up on us from every corner of the planet. Australia isn't particularly special.

    In the UK, we're well on our way to being followed in our every move, our freedoms being "allowed" only if we carry the necessary papers, checked, validated and scanned in everything we do, and so on.

    What it comes down to is this: politicians everywhere are scum. They don't work towards a better and freer life for ordinary people, but purely for their own self-aggrandizement and political power. And since it seems that they can achieve nothing without creating new laws, the public is continually being imprisoned within ever thicker legal walls and shackled with ever tighter legal chains.

    "The Fight Against Terrorism" is of course used as the current excuse. In reality, the actual daily terror here is coming from the politicians and the police. Nobody worries on a daily basis about a true whacko blowing up the underground (because the likelihood is low), but everyone worries about being jumped on by a dozen police officers on the grounds of "looking suuspicious". God, that must be easy work for the police, looking for people with shifty eyes. And I really pity the poor blokes with beards, or those who look slightly middle-eastern ... clearly candidates for terrorist recruitment in the eyes of the police here.

    I don't think that this is going to change any time soon. You know why? Because people are dumb, and watch too much TV, and believe the messages that the politicians and media are feeding them.

    It's sad times indeed.
    • God, that must be easy work for the police, looking for people with shifty eyes

      Actually, it's a heck of a lot easier than you think. I'm expecting the subway to have soon have a sign at the turnstile saying "You must not be this DARK to enter."
    • I was in London recently, and couldn't get my mind off the poor bugger they shot in the head nine times on the subway, just for running to catch his train. (and then they lied and said he jumped the turnstiles, etc, etc...)

      I'm half Indian, but more or less look middle-eastern, so I felt pretty uncomfortable around the subway and stuff. As you pointed out, I wasn't the least bit worried about being blown up by a terrorist (there's a far greater chance of being in a fatal car accident), but I was pretty worri

    • Re:Governments everywhere, and political terror (Score:5, Insightful)

      by _Hellfire_ ( 170113 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @05:48PM (#14728117)
      And since it seems that they can achieve nothing without creating new laws, the public is continually being imprisoned within ever thicker legal walls and shackled with ever tighter legal chains.

      Agreed. The problem with the constant creation of new laws is that after a while, everything becomes illegal. This means that the execution of justice now rests not with the judges and magistrates where it belongs, but with the police, whose original function is to simply arrest law breakers and bring them before the legal system. Since everything is illegal, the police must decide who to arrest and who to ignore, so in effect, they are deciding who is guilty and who is innocent. This merges back the explicit separation of the legal and enforcement arms. A state where the police function like this is called a police state. It's not the fact that they will arrest you for breaking some obscure law (which is probably unlikely), it's the fact that they can.

  • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The Saudi royal family were allowed to leave the US by air in the aftermath of 9/11, when no US citizen could even go near a plane. They also provided funding for the Carlyle Group [wikipedia.org], which is connected to both the previous and the current Bush administrations.

      If western authorities start cracking down on Wahabi preachers in general rather than specific individuals, it may make the Saudi royals look bad to the Wahabi religious leaders, and they don't want that as the religious leaders are keeping the royal fa
  • If they do it as dodgely as they do the rest of their law enforcement, she'll be right mate!
    For example, your doing something dodgy in your car. Do you a) stick a GPS transponder to it b) follow them 2 cars back in a recently made australian car and match every lane change. While all the while sitting the there with a box on your dash and the both of you wearing suits in the middle of summer?

    This is the same as for the internet a) sliding in a rootkit (maybe the could get some help from Sony) b) Continually

  • Power Grab (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Paraplex ( 786149 ) on Wednesday February 15, 2006 @09:37AM (#14724078) Homepage
    I posted this elsewhere:

    For the love of god, someone get these politicians a hobby. They have far too much time and money at their disposal.

    I'd like to see Blair, Bush, Howard & Bin Laden settle this over a good old game of marbles and leave us out of it.

    Who the hell are these twirps? Never met them, never heard a SINGLE intelligent thing come out of any of their mouths and day after day they affect my life. They sit there in these strange black outfits with these weird nooses around their necks arguing about things which are obviously issues of semantics, breaking every rule of intelligent debate & rationalisation and prompting the media beast to artificially inflate these "issues" so that the bored apathetic masses get up in arms and keep them voted in.

    We're throwing away our freedoms so the media can make you pay for & drink sugar water.

    The extreme views speak in loud, inflamatory soundbytes that serve to sell advertising to gullible viewers: "X is EVIL" "ALL Y DESERVE TO DIE" while the moderate, intelligent, rational view is obscured and diffused by its truthful verbosity and its inherent "unmarketability"

    Sometimes I just bang my head against the wall at the complete insanity of it all.

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