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The Courts Government It's funny. Laugh. News

You've Got Indictments 119

Posted by samzenpus from the what-could-go-wrong dept.
Lam1969 writes "Reuters reports that South Korean prosecutors have started a program to start sending indictment notices via SMS. The program was started partly because of the high penetration of mobile phones among the South Korean population (75%, according to the article), and also because prosecutors want to save money by cutting back on paper mailings. One potential hitch in the program: You have to apply to the service in order to receive your indictment electronically."
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You've Got Indictments More

You've Got Indictments

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  • who would seriously sign up for this? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by paulsomm ( 92946 ) <paulsomm@panix.com> on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:26PM (#14355865)
    Seriously, why would anyone make it easier for themselves to be indicted?

  • indictment via SMS? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Daneurysm ( 732825 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:26PM (#14355867)
    One potential hitch in the program: You have to apply to the service in order to receive your indictment electronically."

    Uh, yeah...where do I sign up?

  • SPAM Indictments (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:26PM (#14355870)
    Nice, now they will get SPAM indictments as well.

    • Re:SPAM Indictments (Score:5, Funny)

      by ToasterofDOOM ( 878240 ) <d.murphy.davis@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @11:02PM (#14356033)
      Greetings Sir or Madam:
            I am the owner of a large cell-phone corporation in Nigeria and we have recently discovered that you owe us (Poser Mobile) 3 million US Dollars ($3,000,000) and have not payed up. You are hereby summoned to court tuesday behind the McDonalds on Old 41. Remember to bring all your valuables.
      Have a nice day,
      Poser mobile

      **It just doesn't flow off the tongue (out of the fingers?), sorry**
      • I don't know what's funnier (or more poignant): 1) How completely damn likely that would be 2) That you used the Poser Mobile reference from those damn T-Mobile commercials 3) That I read that whole schpiel again in the angry gangsta asian kid's voice once I read "poser mobile"
    • The potential for playing practical jokes on your friends is also pretty good.

  • target audience (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:27PM (#14355873)
    no good for first offenders, but should make career criminals much more efficient...
    • It's not too much of a stretch to expect judges to order that a convict sign up for the service.

      "I lost my cell, so I didn't get the notice." won't fly when the police can look at your cellphone usage records.

  • oh how fun (Score:5, Funny)

    by jefe7777 ( 411081 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:27PM (#14355874) Journal
    "YOU'VE GOT JAIL!"

  • oh... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by User 956 ( 568564 )
    Reuters reports that South Korean prosecutors have started a program to start sending indictment notices via SMS ... One potential hitch in the program: You have to apply to the service in order to receive your indictment electronically."

    Ok... so you have to *sign up* to be indicted electronically? wtf? We can't even get people to sign up for FasTrak toll payment, much less any form of electronic justice.
    • "We can't even get people to sign up for FasTrak toll payment,..."

      South Koreans != Americans.

      My guess is there is probably some benefit to signing up, like being able to do court business you *want* to do electronically.
      • My guess is there is probably some benefit to signing up, like being able to do court business you *want* to do electronically.

        How many people do that much court business and is on the wrong side of the court? Maybe there's a repeat offender program? Is there a certified SMS system, to prove that the person did recieve and acknowledge the indictment?
        • Well, people may not have business with the courts specifically, but perhaps with some other branches of government, such as licence renewal, etc.

          I'm guessing that South Korea doesn't have exactly the same divisions of government that we have -- legislative, executive, and judicial. Maybe registering to do your taxes online gets you signed up for online summons, etc. Just a guess. Or maybe the beauracracy of S. Korea is stupid and inefficient like all the other countries of the world.
      • South Koreans != Americans.

        Well, no kidding. My point (which was apparently non-obvious, for pedants such as yourself) is that cultural differences between our two countries would be a near-impenetrable barrier for adoption of such a technology in North America.

        BTW... I hear Ric Romero needs an editorial assistant. You might could help him out.

  • How the U.S. would do it. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dada21 ( 163177 ) * <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:28PM (#14355879) Homepage Journal
    As someone who has been on the good and bad side of government letters, I think I know how the U.S. will take advantage of SMS notices.

    First, they'll create a US$40 billion law that will help the IRS notify taxpayers of refunds they haven't received. Of course, the majority of this money will be lost and forgotten and taxpayers who sign up will get little more than a notification SMS -- if even that.

    Second, ten years later, they'll bring back the system but this time they'll use it to notify taxpayers of deliquency -- after spending another US$100 billion to "fix" the system.

    Third, they'll repeat the SMS message at least 20 times more than necessary, due to a bug, and when the taxpayer comes to pay their bill, they'll find out that they owe 20 times the original amount because the IRS is sure they would never send 20 notices of the exact same bill due to the same person unless that person actually owed the entire amount.

    Computers don't make mistakes, right?

    • "Computers don't make mistakes, right?"

      I think the biggest mistake computers make is doing exactly what we tell them to.

    • Computers don't make mistakes, right?

      Right. Humans do. It is always wise to remember that. If your computer 'makes' a mistake, it is highly likely you operated it beyond its tolerances or programmed it incorrectly.

      There is the one in a million chance that a cosmic ray or some 'uncatchable' impurity in the silicon refining process made your computer do something crazy, but then again I'd respond that that is still usually a human error. Noone forces programmers *not* to validate their data (though I do h

      • There is the one in a million chance that a cosmic ray or some 'uncatchable' impurity in the silicon refining process made your computer do something crazy,

        Okay, 1 in a million. So a 1 ghz machine should be prone to 1,000 errors a second. We've just invented the next generation of Microsoft FUD - "Its not our software - its yur hardware."

        • Okay, 1 in a million. So a 1 ghz machine should be prone to 1,000 errors a second. We've just invented the next generation of Microsoft FUD - "Its not our software - its yur hardware."

          That's only the case if the same machine had 999,999,000 human-caused errors per second (I'm not going to do the conversion of microprocessor commands to frequency though I will note that 1 GHz will rarely equal 1 G-ops or G-flops though even those designations are misleading). If you have a billion errors a second and 0.0001
        • Okay, 1 in a million. So a 1 ghz machine should be prone to 1,000 errors a second.

          Your computer is subjected to 1 billion cosmic rays per second? I hope you have a very large tinfoil hat, preferably lined with lead.
           

  • WTF? (Score:4, Funny)

    by thehickcoder ( 620326 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:30PM (#14355889) Homepage
    One potential hitch in the program: You have to apply to the service in order to receive your indictment electronically

    You have got to be kidding...

    Next year...
    South Korea embarks on a new plan to save law enforcement costs. South Korean police will no longer make arrests. Offenders will simply recieve an email instructing them to report to their nearest police station.
    • Wait, you mean in South Korea policemen don't come knocking on your door, they just send you an arrest warrant (in dead tree format) via the mail?

      This is merely replacing one notification method (dead tree post) with another (SMS). Why is that such a big deal? If people want to get notifications in dead tree format, they don't sign up. If they find receiving dead tree mail a pain (I know I do) and want to work towards making their correspondance electronic only, they sign up and get an SMS.

      It's not like the

      • There's a difference between registered mail service (someone has to sign for it) and SMS - which is not even guaranteed to be received (read your terms of service - you pay for them attempting to transmit your message, whether it was received or not).

        So just deny you ever received it.

        • This isn't a summons where you deny ever having gotten it. This is an indictment, where you are notified before hand in case you want to surrendor yourself at a time when your bail can be set without you spending a night or weekend in jail.

          If you don't receive your SMS, the cops will just come to your house and arrest you...probably on a saturday morning so you don't see arraignment for a couple days.

          • Again, let them send it by snail mail.

            If its not so urgent that they're not going to send someone to arrest you, I want to have something in writing so I can have as much info as possible before I talk to anyone. You're not going to get that with a text message. Only an idiot would argee to this.

            • Again, let them send it by snail mail.

              But wait, then you can't sign for it (guess you were wrong about that, huh?). This conversation has gone like this:
              Me - this is an alternate delivery method, and you volunteer for it.
              You - But people sign for it the normal way
              Someone else - no they don't.
              You - oh. Well I still want the snail mail method.

              Did you not see me say this is an alternate delivery method, one you volunteer for?

              Sorry, these type of conversations are just frustrating.

              As for the "only an idiot wou

              • Rule #1 when it comes to legal stuff - NEVER VOLUNTEER! ANYTHING!

                Heck, one time it took them 11 months to serve me (they wanted me to "come pick it up" and I told them "ho ho ho - I'm leaving the country at 5.45 tomorrow morning and won't be back for a month. You want me to come pick it up when I get back - you PAY me to pick it up." 11 months. What a freaking joke. And in the end it was just a waste of time anyway - by the time we got to court, 14 months later, they had "lost the file."

                SCO has one rig

              • You - But people sign for it the normal way

                I never said anyone would sign for an SMS. What I said was that there's a difference between SMS and registered mail - people have to sign for registered mail. When you pick up a piece of registered mail, you have to give your signature and a proof of id. I think you mixed up parts of 2 threads.

    • South Korea embarks on a new plan to save law enforcement costs. South Korean police will no longer make arrests. Offenders will simply recieve an email instructing them to report to their nearest police station.

      You laugh, but the neighbour of a friend of mine complained about being assaulted by my friend to the police. Afterwards, the cops paid him a visit. Three months later. That did not prevent them from starting the whole inquiry and indictment rigmarole...

  • Seriously, I don't think anyone reads EVERY SMS they receive, or even if one did, would he take such an SMS seriously? I can Imagine the hordes of Korean pranksters sending fake indictments around next year.

    An SMS has no value whatsoever, you can't reasonably expect people to react to an indictment SMS the same way they'd respond to a physical letter. Besides, a lot of people SHARE their mobile phones (i.e a dad and his son who wants to go out), so I can just claim that the SMS was deleted when it wasn't i

    • Seriously, I don't think anyone reads EVERY letter they receive, or even if one did, would he take such a letter seriously? I can Imagine the hordes of Korean pranksters sending fake indictments around next year.

      A letter has no value whatsoever, you can't reasonably expect people to react to an indictment letter the same way they'd respond to a physical message from a policeman or officer of the court. Besides, a lot of people SHARE their houses (i.e a dad and his son living together), so I can just claim t

    • ISTR hearing about an issue they had indicting Ted Kazinsky...none of the usual methods of notification could work, so they put it in an ad in the local paper. Apparently, the court said that was OK by them.

      Of course, it's a different country, different culture. But the logic behind court rulings in one country is often still valid in another country.
      • Of course, it's a different country, different culture. But the logic behind court rulings in one country is often still valid in another country.

        This mentality is outright dangerous.
        • A real zinger. Care to explain why?
          • Just because another country has legislated something, doesn't mean it should be applied to ours. As mentioned, culture changes by country. There are plenty of instances where countries legislate for injustice, particularly concerning races and religions. Simply because one country considers it legitimate to behead someone for not following a certain faith doesn't mean others should. I realize this is an extreme, but it works on all levels. Legislation reflects the morality and culture of that country,

  • Then they'll need to set up an email service for all the older [slashdot.org] people

  • this would also allow for lots of fun viruses. I know that Sobig or Sober or whatever its called has been bouncing off my spam filter for some time now, and I read one story where a German man with kiddy pr0n turned himself in after receiving that same virus.

    so im sure the system would be real usable when thousands of people simultaneously and incorrectly turn themselves in.

    a bit OT, but I had an idea for a fun virus a while back. It would consist of a couple of illegal pr0n files that would be emailed, t
  • Seriously. This is both a feat of bureaucracy and a kind of existential comedy. I've always dreaded that bureaucrats would pervert information technology in some astounding way...

  • Insta-Trace (Score:5, Funny)

    by mikeage ( 119105 ) <slashdot@nOsPAm.mikeage.net> on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:55PM (#14356000) Homepage
    ObSimpsons

    Bart: Dad, you don't have ten thousand dollars.
    Homer: Eh. How are they going to find me?
            [at PBS Pledge Central, the "mercury" in a thermometer
            display rises all the way to the top and rings a bell]
    White: Folks, we've just reached our goal of ten thousand, seven
            hundred dollars, and it's all thanks to one generous
            caller ... who didn't leave his name.
    Homer: [laughs]
    White: But thanks to Insta-Trace, we've learned it's Homer
            Simpson, of 742 Evergreen Terrace. [a picture of Homer
            appears on the screen. He screams]
    Homer: Oh, why did I register with Insta-Trace?

    http://www.snpp.com/episodes/BABF11 [snpp.com]
    • [During Ned's dinner date with power-player Lindsey Nagel]

      Lindsey: With me, you get more than just a Wharton MBA pulling in $200K—I'm getting a fax... [retrieves fax from mini fax machine strapped to ankle]

      Oh no, I've just been indicted; gotta go. How's your July? Mine's terrible.

  • Am I wrong? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @10:55PM (#14356002) Homepage
    I've only had a little personal experience, but I always thought that letters like these from the courts (indictments, notices of arraignment dates, etc.) were usually sent certified return receipt so that they can be certain that you've gotten the letter.

    Am I wrong or are things just different in South Korea?
    • You're right, that's the way it is here. They could probably send the SMS with a confirmation code etc etc.
      • They could probably send the SMS with a confirmation code etc etc.
        That doesn't really verify somebody's identity though, because anybody could be sending back that person's confirmation code. Suppose they had the wrong number for the person who was indicted, what then?

    • Depends (Score:3, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 )
      For most court things, delivery in person is how it's done. That's the only real way to make sure the right person got it. For criminal complaints, generally you are served by the police, and they arrest you in the process. For civil complaints, you can hire the police to serve the papers (which isn't a bad idea since they keep records) or have someone else do it, but it can't be you.

      For things like jury duty notices it's mail, but I don't believe it's certified, just normal mail.

      • For civil complaints, you can hire the police to serve the papers

        Are you sure you don't mean a bailiff or process server?

        • No the bailiff is a court officer. You can usually hire the sheriffs to serve papers for you. For a fee they'll send a deputy to hand over the papers and keep documentation that the person was served. Not all departments do this, but they generally do, since they make a little money on it.

          • Not always - depends on where yu live Here, bailiffs are independent process servers. That's why I wrote "bailiff or process server" :-)

            Also, here the police are forbidden to do any such actions in civil cases. Their response - see a lawyer, who will hire a bailiff (a private process server) to serve the papers. Bailiffs here routinely get thrown down stairs, punched out, kicked, etc - its part of the job. They hae no "peace officer" status.

      • That doesn't sound right. Maybe for felonies, but not all criminal offenses get that treatment.

        My personal experience that I alluded to was of receiving the court date of my arraignment*. They sent it to me as both a return receipt letter and a regular letter actually, which still seems silly.


        *In case anyone cares, I was being arraigned for driving without a license when I was 17 and I was let off the hook at the arraignment, not because I didn't commit the crime but largely because I had a lawyer. The l
        • You are correct, for minor misdemeanors they usually don't arrest you, though they often do serve the papers in person for non-traffic misdemeanors.
      • For small claims courts, at least in MA and CA, the grandparent is correct. You have to send the initial claim certified for the judge to consider the case valid.

        On the other hand, jury duty is normal mail. Which lead to an amusing situation a few years ago where the state wanted me arrested for dodging jury duty in northern CA, even though I had moved out of that address to southern CA three years prior. The only reason I found out about this was because the person who was recieving the mail finally dec
        • I'm surprised they dropped the charges. In Virginia if that happens (because you didn't fill out some form nobody knows about and isn't mentioned anywhere on their website because the system isn't tied with the normal change of address stuff), they fine the crap out of you and tell you how lucky you are they aren't throwing you in jail.
    • I've only had a little personal experience, but I always thought that letters like these from the courts (indictments, notices of arraignment dates, etc.) were usually sent certified return receipt so that they can be certain that you've gotten the letter.

      Actually, no, that is rare.

      Court funding has been cut quite a bit over the years. Usually, they'll just keep on sending mail and/or warnings that a drivers licence will be suspended if there isn't a reply.

  • 1984? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by digitaldc ( 879047 ) * on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @11:08PM (#14356075)
    This is technology and information that has gone to the power of the police state. In the forseeable future, no one will be able to break the law and get away with it.
    Pretty soon we will be living in houses with video screens on walls and will be constantly told that in order to have peace, you must have war...oh wait a minute...um nevermind.

    • Re:1984? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DJCF ( 805487 )
      So... they're doing something which has, for all time, been done using paper... using SMS. And this is the herald of 1984? Then I guess we'd better all bow down to Big Brother.
    • "In the forseeable future, no one will be able to break the law and get away with it."

      I'm as tinfoil hat addicted as the next slashdotter, but how bout just don't break the law to begin with.

  • And North Korea is considered the crazy one ? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @11:22PM (#14356133)
    Seriously, Theres more than a little to be said about making the state at least spare the cost of a certified letter to start the process of removing your liberty. Many parts of society don't need to be more efficient and IMHO this is one of them.

  • So ... what, you sign up for this (Score:3)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @11:39PM (#14356195)
    just on the off chance that you might be indicted for some crime, and you want to make sure you don't miss your court date? Wacky. But this is the kind of thing that bureaucrats (not known for deep or particularly critical thinking) are famous for inventing, the whole world over. Like the time that the Social Security Administration here in the U.S. decided to make everyone's SS records accessible simply by typing in one's SSN at their Web site. Brilliant idea that would no doubt have made perfect sense in some Sliders-style alternate universe.
  • "YOU'VE MADE BAIL!"

  • Sign Up Form (Score:3, Funny)

    by mattwarden ( 699984 ) on Wednesday December 28, 2005 @11:43PM (#14356219)

    I can see it now...

    Name: [____]
    Mobile Number: [____]
    Postal Code: [____]

    Number of Children in Household: [____]
    Annual Household Income: [____]

    Which of the following magazines do you subscribe to:
    [ ] Time
    [ ] Korean Weekly
    [ ] ...

    [ ] Check here if you would like to be notified if your indictment is dismissed
    [ ] Check here if you would like to be notified about your indictments in our partner countries

  • Could this be a way of implimenting some sort of tracking system for the criminal element in South Korea? By signing up for this system, you're basically letting the government know yuou're ignorant of the law, and that you're more than likely going to break the law.

    An even better idea, "Here's my phone number, just in case I do something wrong, you guys can let me know." Can't imagine anyone would ever abuse that system.
  • Are there people in South Korea who get so many indictments, it's worth their time to go apply for this, so that they can save time when all the indictments start rolling in?

    I thought Ken Lay's name sounded Chinese, not Korean.
  • I'm not familiar with S.Korean law, but I don't believe there's any requirement an indicted person be notified of the indictment prior to arraignment. IANAL.

  • All joking aside, it sounds like the SMS service being created will be used for more than just indictments. From the article:

    Other notices that will be sent by text messages include information on fines and penalties.
    So, more of a general "correspondence with government offices" SMS service than just for sending indictments.

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