Modding and the Law 219
S3D writes "An article at O'Reilly discusses modding as a cultural phenomenon and its relation to the law and authority. The conclusion is that social activists are modders too. They want to change the government into something that supports a productive society. They want institutions to stop hiding facts and to pay attention to science. They want to change corporations, change people's day-to-day behavior, and change our own social relationships."
Oram's Insight (Score:3, Interesting)
Andy Oram offers interesting insights, and paradoxically offers as a solution, modding our government. Cool!
Re:Oram's Insight (Score:2, Funny)
Or did you mean moderation? That would also be cool, everytime the House draws up a bill for something Bush doesn't like, he could either delete it all together, or just keep giving it a -1 but then again that bastard Kennedy would keep bumping it for great justice
Re:Oram's Insight (Score:2)
Contracts of adhesion (Score:3, Interesting)
Would it be okay to someone live in your basement without paying rent as long as you didn't know he was there and he caused you no harm? No.
Not all philosophers[1] agree with this assertion.
It's just impractical to sell the computer to your neighbor in order to sell him exclusive access to a file (which is what you would be selling if it were a paperback).
Difference is that a paperback doesn't suddenly acquire more works bound into it, unlike an Apple ID which is bound to every work purchased with
Like Slashdot Mods (Score:5, Funny)
If they're anything like Slashdot's mods, they'll also try, at times, to suppress facts that contradict their position.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
A perfect example
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
"We have a right to know if the person in front of us in the grocery store is carrying a gun, so the media must be allowed to publish the names and residence information of concealed license holders!"
There are plenty of
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Your attitude of "the police will protect you" is very misleading, as the police have no obligation to prote
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.dcexaminer.com/articles/2005/10/14/new s /maryland_news/03newsmd14burning.txt [dcexaminer.com] http://www.nbc4.com/news/5097879/detail.html?subid =10101441 [nbc4.com]
Summary of case: a woman went before a judge and asked him to extend a restraining order against her estranged husband, who had made several threats against her life. Against all sense of good judgment, the judge lifted the restraining order. The husband subsequently set the woman on fire, leaving her with burns
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Because people who want to commit murder are reknowned for thinking, hey, wait a minute, I'm not legally allowed to carry a gun. Maybe I shouldn't commit murder today.
And abuse husbands are SO disinclined to simply beat their ex to death, or stab them, or whatever.
lol.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
I might as well come out with my stance on gun control: I believe that people should be required to have a licence to purchase or ow
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
If someone wants to shoot a person, laws do not stop that person from getting a gun and ammunition from the black market. In a world where only criminals have guns, criminals would have little to fear from their prospective victims. Having a gun ban is like providing criminals with a guarantee that they h
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
(1) Although I am comfortable with guns, I do not and probably will not in the forseeable future own a handgun. My relatives are a different story...
(2) I have a gun-control position somewhere between the NRA's position and the Brady Center's position, which means that I'm not a wing-nut but I generally support gun rights.
The brutal truth about D.C., where the crime was committed, is that guns are easy to get. Possession is entirely illegal [nraila.org], which means that Ms. Cady probably didn't have one,
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, it's more like you already had that prejudgement in your mind, and you singled out something that reinforced it.
Meanwhile, most of our crime rates are lower than those in Europe, and their violent crimes are rising while ours are lowering.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
A country which is getting to be more of a Police State all the time, and with a growing percentage of its population in prison under long mandatory sentences for relatively minor offenses. A few grams of the wrong molecules found on you, and you can be locked up for many years without so much as the judge's discretion.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
If you go to our big cities you'd be justified in thinking so.
The paradox is that the cities are run as welfare states in much the same way as Europe! If you go to the suburbs where there are guns in every household crime there is virtually no crime.
My best explanation is this: before the civil rights movement and to some extent even today, the police and the justice system persecuted blacks. The D
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2, Informative)
Look up (D) Byrds voting history.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
As for cities being run as welfare states- stop drinking the far right koolaid and get back to reality, please.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
What makes you think you would know? I know many people who I'm pretty sure have guns, but I have never seen them. I have guns myself, but there are people who do not know that. Unless they see me leaving/coming home from a hunting trip, how would they know?
Most people with children (which is a large part of your neighbors) keep their guns locked away so the kids don't kill someone with them. Even those who have them tend not to show them off except to collectors. Guns are fairly valuable, so you
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2, Informative)
Or you could pay attention to SCOTUS decisions.
Review of said decisions here [wislawjournal.com].
Said latest decision (using google's pdf to html) here [66.102.7.104].
The OP was exactly correct, the police have NO duty to protect any specific individual, absent a "special relationship" - which a restraining order is explicitly held not to do.
Here are some links to some studies, though if you missed the GONZALES
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
It refers to the government assuming responsibility for someone's safety - usually by actively removing thier ability to protect themself. i.e. someone in government custody (i.e. in jail, under arrest, etc), witness protection, etc.
*I* think that should include people who have been granted restraining orders, what with the direction for law enforcement to enforce said orders.... But the SCOTUS never asked me. The bastards.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Informative)
Then you are a fool, and since the GPP declined to site evidence, I will do so myself:
That enough for you?
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
I don't fight to die for my country but to make the other poor bastard die for his country, ever heard that one? These women need to kill people who want to hurt them. That way the good guys are alive and the bad guys are dead, which is the way it should be.
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
Spoken by someone who has never been in a fight, has no military or law enforcement training. (
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2, Insightful)
The only reason an aggressor is going to fight you is if he thinks he can win.
Well yes, of course, but what's that got to do with what I said?
Sure, you can use "martial arts" to convince him otherwise, but only after he's had a chance to inflict significant injury on you (especially in a knifefight) and only if you actually are better.
Well duh, of course you need to be good,
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:3, Insightful)
Spoken just like someone with military experience, but no experience with crimes against women.
I have military experience myself, and yes -- a gun is the best offensive/defensive weapon for an enemy which you know is there, and who is at a suitable distance. But crimes against women don't typically work that way.
Predators skulk in the dark, and often grab from behind in a manner suitable to restrict the victims movements. What
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
You think he's ridiculously offbase?
I'll bite on that question by offering you another... ask the instructor: How long does it take before a beginner is able to defend himself effectively against someone? Since you cite martial arts as though you are extremely familiar with them, you should know damn well that most instructors in most disciplines believe a newbie is not skilled enough
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Least effective, except for everything else (Score:2)
True a gun isn't a great tool in an attack. However it is the only one you can give someone within 30 minutes of an attack and have confidence that their odds have increased.
This is even more true when the subject is a small women against a large man. Men, particularly stockers, typically have been in fights before, and thus have some experience about what to do. Hormones means that men are also bigger and stronger. These factors mean that the average women has no chance against the average man in a
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Re:Like Slashdot Mods (Score:2)
Re:watch your equivocation (Score:2)
Mod this up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mod this up. (Score:2)
Re:Mod this up. (Score:2)
Exactly what TFA says, though I don't know how that rates +5 insight. Maybe the mods didn't read it either.
everything Yay (Score:2)
Change *everything*? That's a good plan ... for what? One rhetorical question: Does different = good?
Re:everything Yay (Score:5, Insightful)
The list you quoted does not include "everything". Jus three things, one a historically-new serious problem (corporations), and two on-going basic traits (but "broken" in the context of the current world) of our evolution as domesticated primates.
That's a good plan
And a not-so-rhetorical answer: Yes, when what you have now clearly has serious fundamental problems.
Corporations have a single motive (profit), the pursuit of which has the logical outcome of destroying the planet and enslaving the human race.
People's day-to-day behavior, while "mostly harmless" in isolation, adds up to nothing less than the evironmental nightmare we now face. That needs to change.
And our social relationships - As long as you can describe "haves" and "have-nots", yet we have the technological capacity for everyone to "have", we have a problem. As long as some people feel so trapped that they need to hurt others to cope, we have problems. As long as we have people so ignorant they need to blow up other people for their imaginary friends, we have a problem.
Now, random change won't help. But only a fool would avoid carefully thought-out change, even experimental, to address any of those issues.
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
You're scary.
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
Happy Halloween.
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
Corporations in the modern sense have been around since the 1600's. As a matter of logic, when your premises are bad, the conclusion is worthless.
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
And modern human history extends back to at least 6000BCE, possibly as early as 20,000BCE. Historically new.
As a matter of logic, when your premises are bad, the conclusion is worthless.
I had only one premise - Corporations exist solely for profit. Do you disagree with that? On what basis?
Yes, with an invalid premise, the logic fails (though it doesn't necessarily make the conclusion false). But ipse dixit (or in this case, ego
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
I'm sorry, I was distracted by this book from those newfangled printing presses.
Your sense of "historically new" is long enough to be meaningless.
As for your argument, you don't appear to have one, as nearly as I can tell. Breaking it down formally, it appears to be akin to the following:
P1: Corporations exist to pursue profit.
C1: Therefore, humanity is doomed.
Spotting the holes in such a
Re:Ah fresh meat! (Score:2)
You misunderstand - to call those things "new" renders the concept of new meaningless, not the things themselves.
You also have misformed his conclusion, which can be better expressed that corporations are a significant negative draw on humanity, and enough of a negative draw will doom humanity.
That's not an
Re:Ah fresh meat! (Score:2)
Re:everything Yay (Score:3, Informative)
Insider trading [wikipedia.org] is wrongly maligned because who is better to judge the worth of t
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
Insider trading is rightly maligned because "who is better to judge the worth of the stock" are also those who are responsible to report to the stockholders said value, such as the CEO of the company lying to the stockholders in order to inflate the value of the stock so they can sell before the deception is uncovered.
Without protections against that, everyone will panic se
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
Beyond this, the existence of corporations in general and the emergence of a particular problem with corporations in a given society necessarily happen in the order I just listed. Thus, the fact that you cite (existence of corporations as early
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
You've got better eyes than I do - the only "serious problem" I saw in that post was an assertion that we're going to hell in a handbasket, with nary a mention of how or why, other than some vague handwaving about corporations.
Thus, the fact that you cite (existence of corporations as early as 1600) is irrelevant to his point
Re:everything Yay (Score:2)
Re:everything Yay (Score:3)
If you look at the structure of early corporations, such as the Dutch East India Company, it's pretty clear that the major hallmarks of modern corporations were in place - limited liability, functioning as an entity separate from its directors or owners, et
Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
There are artists that have decided they have "enough" money and freely distribute their work. That is certainly their right to do that. You, the consumer, do not have the right to make that decision for them. That is pretty much the same thing as your neighbor deciding that you should go to their church. Or the government deciding that since I don't want to work anymore, yo
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
While I am sympathetic to this argument, it is sort of along the lines in "what is the harm in piracy of Microsoft software?" when the answer is that it denies Linux a chance to compete for this customer's computer. Si
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
Copyright provides for a LIMITED monopoly on one's creations.
The legal-fictional entities known as "corporations" have managed to trump actual human rights to their own culture by "modding" the laws so as to make copyright a doctrine of exclusion, rather than a means of encouraging new creations. They have perverted even the underlying goal, of rewarding the creators themse
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
I trust that you never do anything creative in your life. Certainly not an expect any sort of compensation or reimbursment for it.
For you information I am a writer, a programmer, an artist, and a miscican. But, I'm not supprised. This is typical of the pro-copyright crowd who can't argue the facts, so instead decide to attack the source.
You, the consumer, do not have the right to make that decision for them.
I'm not making a decision for anyone. Nobody forces you to do creative things, nobody forc
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
Is this a troll? Or a subject of honest debate. I cannot tell, so I will assume that it is not....
Aside from all the moralizing about cre
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
The first is that it provides ammunition that Congress can use to pass more draconian laws and also to justify the access control provisions of the DMCA.
You're working under the premise that they are not already doing everything they can anyhow.
The second is that it materially undermines any real attempt to build an alternative, open content distribution system. FOr example, I might not be sympathetic to Microsoft for all that "lost revenue" from illegally copied software, but the fact is that each il
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
The problem is that our entire system is screwed up. The only way to change that is to build a new system with new content that has as little overlap with the existing system as possible. Sharing music is problematic because it extends the reach of the RIAA, not because it hurts artists.
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
By producing something singularly good. There are plenty of people who toil away in the studio working on material that, from most perspectives, will appear to come from a complete unknown. Sometimes, that material makes the creative person both their name and their money at the same time. If they've got the wrong idea about their talent or their work, that's up to them to find out. But it's not up to someone who does
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
Unfortunately they don't. They equate coyright infringement with a sort of way of sticking it to the man so to speak. There is an emotional appeal of hurting the RIAA (which is admittedly pretty bad), but in the end the problem I am pointing out is that we need to be working at building a competing open content system rather than taking
Re:Defiance is a changing the system too (Score:2)
The thing you have to remember is slippery slopes work both ways. Is sharing a song with your friend really that wrong? Nah, not in the big scheme of things. Is screwing with the system enough that medical innovation (not to mention the publishing of books, movies, tv, etc) practically ends, because the company that can copy the idea and make it the cheapest wins? Hell yes.
By your logic, the OS market should be going dead in R&D because anybody can copy Linux - funny, just the opposite is happening. D
Whoa... (Score:5, Funny)
I got excited for a second there...
In my view (Score:5, Interesting)
Modding Problems (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Modding Problems (Score:3, Insightful)
The concept of "social justice" is so vauge and meaningless, and therefore how to fix "social injustice"
Re:Modding Problems (Score:2)
What is evil is the killing, a completly objectivly defined thing. We can both agree on exactly what "killing" is, and we can clearly and objectivly measure if certain actions result in killing. And, most societies tend to have a taboo on killing - at least in members of your own political/economic unit, so wanting to stop killing is an almost universal thing.
We both agree that killing someone based on their skin color is bad, because murdering someone is a pretty objectivel
Bah humbug (Score:5, Insightful)
> government into something that supports a productive society. They want institutions
> to stop hiding facts and to pay attention to science. They want to change corporations,
> change people's day-to-day behavior, and change our own social relationships.
Oh bullshit. YOU may THINK you are promoting that in YOUR activism. Other equally activist folk are promoting very different things. So stop projecting your own political notions on everyone else and pretending it is the only possible viewpoint.
Typical slashdot twaddle, what passes for politics and philosophy here isn't even cereal box pop philosophy. Bah!
Re:Bah humbug (Score:2, Interesting)
As a libertarian (small "l") political activist, the only thing on that list that fits with my personal activism is the part about wanting institutions to stop hiding facts and start paying attention to science.
Otherwise, many of us want to work toward a more individualist, rather than collectivist, society. Does that make us any less of "social activist modders"?
Re:Bah humbug (Score:2)
For instance, in the prior to the US Civil War, the North found it was cheaper to hire labor than to keep slaves, and slavery negatively affected their business model.
Ah, I love analogies (Score:5, Insightful)
This week; why social activist activity is like modding.
Next week, why modding and social activism are like biological viruses: 'both set out to commandeer the host and change its functions to their own end'.
The week after, why the IETF is like a shoemaker; both provide the tools that let people transfer information from place to place.
The difficulty with analogies is not creating them, but in creating ones that shed valuable light on either topic. This analogy doesn't help understaning of modding or social activism.
Re:Ah, I love analogies (Score:3, Funny)
It shines out, like a shaft of gold, when all around is darkness :)
Interesting timing (Score:4, Interesting)
The No Electronic Theft Act of 1997
Digital Millennium Copyright Act, passed in 1998
I guess we now know why Hollywood is so in bed with the Clintons. The established media companies, as usual, are fighting any trend that loosens their grip on us. Their latest ploy, the new TV program about a woman president, is just the latest transparent move (get us all used to the idea of Hillary in charge). Just think what onerous laws they will be able to pass once the Clintons get back into the White House!
Crap (Score:2)
When will Americans try electing government that isn't all about cronyism, corporatism, and pissing on the masses?
Re:Interesting timing (Score:2)
1) a guy who commits perjury in a sexual harrasment suit ostensably to avoid confronting his wife about an unrelated blowjob, transfered authority from the energy department to the commerce department to allow the sale of missile guidance systems to the chinese, demands american troops be unarmed while at port in middle eastern countries resulting in an unresponded to attack on US military assets and the deaths of several sailors, had several mysterious deaths during his presidency includin
Modding as old as the human race (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, when you think about it, isn't it healthier to have people, esp. young people sit around using their brains to create mods or write fanfiction (even if it turns out crap) than just sitting passively watching TV or playing games that someone else wrote? At least they are using their brains and doing something and trying to create something than just sitting there and passively taking what someone else is saying.
That loud crack you heard (Score:4, Funny)
Those apes dancing around in the beginning of 2001 are the firt modders, with their l33t femur-bone mod.
Re:That loud crack you heard (Score:2)
Give me a break. (Score:2, Insightful)
Hippie, punk, hair metal, grunge, goth and now whoever these people are.
Modding is modding. It's doing what you want with what you've bought. It's not social commentary and it's not a blow against the man, "the media" or a challenge to the educational system.
What's already happened is that some com
Social activism has MANY goals (Score:2, Insightful)
My wife is a modder, big time (Score:2, Offtopic)
She's always changing her clothes, her shoes, her mind...
geeks (Score:2)
In other words, they're geeks.
Re:geeks (Score:2)
But then, I'm not even sure why I am arguing with someone who posts comments like this [slashdot.org].
Modding as a Business (Score:5, Interesting)
With my recent purchase of Battlefield 2 I recieved a full modding kit (which is also available online) including map editor and tutorials on how to use 3rd party programs. Thought to accomodate modding even goes into the development of the game: BF2 is scripted using Python, as many other games (the recent interview with the Civ4 dev team highlighted this: they used Python so the game could be extensively moddable.
Many games companies even put up with some blatant copyright infringment. I work on http://ta-mod.com/ [ta-mod.com] which is a mod for the Battlefield Series of games, turning it into a Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun styled interface. Legally, EA could waltz in and shut us down for infringing their intellectual property on the C&C series, but they are fully aware of our activities and they seem to be quite enthusiastic about it.
The traditional industries can learn this lesson. If they bundled Rip/Mix/Burn programs with their music/movies just as PC Gamer developers do I would actually feel pushed to buy the content as the value added from something which you can add to infinitely over time is so much greater than a passive disk which you watch/listen to then put back. They would be adding value to their product, reaping a PR victory and not expending more than 20c per unit sold for a printed CD including the modding tools. If they don't include the tools, people will get them from somewhere else - it's a question of keeping their market.
So what is modding? (Score:2, Informative)
We like to tinker (Score:3, Insightful)
This is also a reason why attempts at computer security/anti-copy schemes are doomed to fail. They pay some poor schmoe to come up with these schemes and thousands out in the world treat it's arrival like the release of a new game. Who will win? As for telling people it's wrong, good luck. Most modders would rather ask forgiveness than permission and when they buy something take the attitude that you can't break into your own house. Make things onerous enough for them and they'll revolt. Technically, the American and French revolutions were illegal acts.
It's all very much like in Shogun when Toranaga tells Blackthorne that there is no mitigating circumstance when it comes to rebellion against a sovereign lord. Blackthorne replies, "unless you win". Which of course Toranaga realizes is the one mitigating circumstance.
Now get back there and unlock those cell phones and x-boxes. While your at it, mod those politicians to get them to tell these companies suck it up.
Well then..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like being an armchair quarterback, being a armchair politician will accomplish nothing.
America is not just a two party system. We need to educate the voters that voting isn't a contest to try and pick who is going to win, It's about who you WANT to win.
We need a canidate that acknolwledges that our economic system can't be purely capitalist nor socialist. We need a moderate mix of the two with the decisions based on the needs of the majority.
We already have some socialist systems in place such as Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, Public roads and parks. Lets not try and dismantle those at any given opportunity.
But for myself, what I see as the major problem in American Politics today is that the funding comes mostly from corporations and business people. Politicians don't represent the voters; they represent those who supply them with the money they needed to run for office and the promise of a cushy high paying corporate position when they are voted out.
This of course has led us to the corpratism situation we have today where the lobbyists are going as far as writting bills that they then hand to the politicans to submitt (the energy bill for example).
Our government has been bought from the people and is now solidly in the hands of corporations.
Look, the republicans have done a good job of hanging themselves and violating everything they stood for as a party. It's pretty apparent now that the next elections will see alot of them lose thier seats. But, what good does that do? Corporate money is hedged between the two major parties anyway!!
The whole concept of a government was to represent its citizens. Just like tribal hunting parties, if one hunter scores a kill the whole party had food. It existed for the benifit of the group. Leave it to human nature to subvert that concept and exploit it for the benifit of a few.
It remains to be seen if the unorganized masses can change the system run by organized corporate intrests. We only tend to THINK about it around election time, they WORK on it EVERY DAY!!
I modded the sherrif (Score:4, Funny)
That's funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
You tell me it's the constitution (Score:2)
The US courts are coming increasingly to be filled by "original intent" judges, where that's a label for what is actually an outrageous mod to the functions intended by the original manufacturer. It's a "clear skies initiative" sort of thing. For prime example: It was the original intent of the manufacturer to preserve all rights not enumerated to the people; but the "original intent" judges believe that all rights except those enumerated (see: privacy) are preserved for the government. It
Modding vs. Activism (Score:5, Insightful)
Activists want to change not only things that other people own, but also change people against their will, and don't want to accept responsibility if they screw up (i.e. when do activists for public housing take responsiblity for the disasterous urban housing projects debacles of the 1960s that led to the creation of new "Ghettos"??? When do anti-nuclear activists take responsibility for global warming because they have eliminated a potential form of non-greenhouse emitting energy?? When do anti-drug activists take responsibility for the half-million and rising Americans in prison, and the thousands killed in the drug war in Columbia??? When do human rights activists who want the U.S. to cut trade with "human rights abusing countries" take responsibility for pissing off half the world???)
Imagine if a "modder" decided to "improve" someone elses dialasis machine, and that someone else died in the process, and then the "modder" blamed the manufacterer of the dialasis machine... and that is a perfect example of an "activist".
The world could do with a few less activists, and a few more people minding their own damn buisness!
modding vs copyright? (Score:2)
For something that seemed that it was about social and political reform, it was more somebody complaining about the newer copyright laws. The ones that prevent people from getting at content in maners other than how the distributors intend. Which is something that has always been a key part to copyright... those with distribution rights have always had a say in *how* some
this has always been going on (Score:2)
Geeky insecurity. (Score:2)
Give me a non computing tainted, fucking brake.