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Canadian Law Profs Counter CRIA Propaganda 119

Posted by Zonk from the talking-back dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Globe and Mail reports that Canadian law professors have countered the Canadian recording industry's misinformation campaign in a new 600-page book that is being made freely available under a creative commons license. Led by Professor Michael Geist, the book provides full coverage of the possibility of Canada adopting DMCA-like copyright laws." From the article: "The 19 copyright law professors, in a peer-reviewed discussion edited by Ottawa lawyer and Internet columnist Michael Geist, note that revisions to copyright law in the past were largely the result of negotiations among copyright stakeholders; today, however, the broader public is also demanding a seat at the table. 'The public's interest in copyright something inconceivable even a few years ago is the result of the remarkable confluence of computing power, the Internet, and a plethora of new software programs, all of which has not only enabled millions to create their own songs, movies, photos, art, and software but has also allowed them to efficiently distribute their creations electronically without the need for traditional distribution systems,' the book says."
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Canadian Law Profs Counter CRIA Propaganda More

Canadian Law Profs Counter CRIA Propaganda

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  • That's the sound of CRIA getting PWNED. Thank goodness us Canucks still got the balls to stand up to big business.

    • Re:You hear that? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by CyricZ ( 887944 )
      But even if the citizenry are against this nonsense, will the politicians actually follow through and not pass this proposed legislation? It isn't so much about the whether or not the citizenry of Canada has the balls, but moreso whether or not the parliamentarians have the guts to say "NO! We will NOT stand for this bullshit!"

      • Simply send a paper copy of the report to them. Each day.

        They'll get the message.

        • Are letters to politicians postage-free in Canada, as in some other nations? Could you realistically, assuming affording the paper was not a problem, mail a copy of this book to each and every parliamentarian?

          Perhaps a group of students or professionals could get together and each print up a page or two of the book for each politician. And they could collect the pages together into a single book for each parliamentarian, spreading the printing cost amongst themselves.

      • But even if the citizenry are against this nonsense, will the politicians actually follow through and not pass this proposed legislation? It isn't so much about the whether or not the citizenry of Canada has the balls, but moreso whether or not the parliamentarians have the guts to say "NO! We will NOT stand for this bullshit!"

        (Troy McClure)
        The Canadian Government as seen in such films as:
        "Star Wars II: The Missle Defence Sheild"
        "Golf War II: Operation Iraqui Liberaty"
      • As a canuck I think you portray the situation as more complex than it really is. The only issue is whether the right politicians have been paid the right amount.

      • 2 words. Minority Government.

        I doubt things are going to change any time soon here in the great white north. The liberals (who are presently in power) don't really like america or care about american artists. We already pay tariffs on blank cds to support Canadian artisits. Changing copyright laws here would not endear them to the general public and with an election coming soon, I doubt that they would risk pissing off any more canadians than they already have.

    • Re:You hear that? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by moxley ( 895517 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @04:18PM (#13688831)
      Yeah - that's nice - Canada definitely rocks. However, A lot of Americans stand up to big business too; and until you Canadians tell your police to stop enforcing US federal law by proxy (just ask Marc Emery) I think you may want to reassess your ball size.

  • RTF...B? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ceriel Nosforit ( 682174 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:43PM (#13688516)
    Remember kids, no posting before you've read all 600 pages. =)

  • Elections soon! So act fast. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@gmail ... m minus caffeine> on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:43PM (#13688518) Journal
    Canada will be going into elections within the nest 6-9 months.

    So it is more than never the time to go after your candidates and grill them on the subject. The more public, the better!

    Do not count on the private TV networks to expose this to the public; aim the majority of your efforts towars the government owned (but not controlled) CBC.

    • But are not all of the actual CBC workers on strike at the moment? My nephew in Canada was saying that the regulars have been replaced with temps, and the temps are doing a horrible job, quality-wise. He says that the news is, at the moment, no better than that of the other corporate-controlled media in Canada.

    • Are there any parties in Canada who have outright said that they will not support such nonsense, and will actively fight for the rights of individual Canadian citizens?

      My nephew said that you have a Green Party over there which may be more open to such ideas. What is their stance on this bill? The Liberals and Conservatives are known for their business ties and corruption. Would they actually stand against this very corporate-friendly bill? Is the NDP even relevant these days? Where do they stand?
      • The conservatives (~100 seats) and liberals will probably go for it, the ndp will be against it (I believe they hold 19 seats, and would be needed if the liberals didn't have any other support), and god only knows what the bloc will do (52 seats, I believe...).

        In short, it's probably going through.

      • Re:Are there any parties against this? (Score:5, Informative)

        by temojen ( 678985 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @04:08PM (#13688740) Journal
        Is the NDP even relevant these days?

        Umm... yes. With the Conservatives voting against ALL confidence bills and a minority government, the NDP is very relevant.

        As for where they stand, I don't think they have an official policy (yet), but I've spoken personally with both Jack Layton and Jean Crowder and both probably would share opinions with many of the lawyers in the book.

        As for the Green Party, they have no seats in Parliament.

        • NPD is great and all, really, but let's not burry our head in the sand and ignore the fact that the ONLY federal political party actually working for the citizen, doing it's job as an opposition party and having a real record of total and uncompromising integrity is the separatist Bloc Québecois party... food for your thought...

          The NPD is merely a drop in the Canadian political pond, I voted for them but their message just don't get accross because they seem more busy playing whore with the liberal par
    • And with the CBC employees locked out you're sure to get no coverage (unless the BBC world service news covers it).

    • Canada will be going into elections within the nest 6-9 months. [emphasis mine]

      Does this mean that Canadian politicians are an avian species?

      If so, wouldn't they migrate south in the winter and inflict more big media-funded legislation on the United States? Not that Congress needs any help.

      ...on the other hand, if it's American politicians flying north in 6 months, you guys are screwed. @.~

    • aim the majority of your efforts towars the government owned (but not controlled) CBC.

      rofls hehehahahah
      hahahahahaha omg you're killing me here

  • Heck. (Score:5, Informative)

    by ionicplasma ( 820891 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:43PM (#13688521) Homepage
    Canada has it easy. Look at us in Australia, we accepted a free trade agreement with the US complete with the DMCA.
    • Maybe you shouldn't let your politicians do things that aren't the will of the people? Impeach Howard?

      --
      The ten best apps for Palm [arpx.net]

  • Slashdotted? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bam359 ( 796809 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:44PM (#13688522) Journal
    Could someone post the content of the book in a comment, the webpage seem's to have been slashdotted.

  • Copyrights? Or Crappy Music? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fragmentate ( 908035 ) * <jdspilled.gmail@com> on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:44PM (#13688526) Journal
    Some of their numbers don't fly with me... Most of my associates either subscribe to iTunes, RealRhapsody, or Yahoo! Music. The main reason is having to pay for an entire CD (IMHO, overpriced) to get one or two songs.

    The primary motivation for me spending $7/month for Yahoo! Music is so that I get only the songs I like and can ignore the garbage that these artists had to develop as filler.

    I'm also realistic enough to know that the majority are downloading music they've never paid for. Which brings up another question: If I bought a vinyl album 20 years ago, do I have the right to have those songs? I know the answer. I don't like it. I think if I paid $10.99 in 1985 for a Pink Floyd album I purchased a license to have those songs, no matter how I get them.

    ...just my opinion.

    • Re:Copyrights? Or Crappy Music? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      ..I purchased a license to have a copy of those songs, no matter how I get them.

      what if you lose/spoil the CD? so you mean you could download those songs (illegally) because you had bought the license to have those songs, and not in the manner they were provided to you (ie on a CD)?
      • Here's the clinch.

        Under fair use, yes. you have the right to the data. In any format you want. Copied in any way you want. Ect.

        However, you may not have the right to attain newer, updated versions. This can include the improved quality found in CD. Further, I'm pretty sure something in the DMCA, somewhere, disallows you to get the data you legally own a copy of again. So although its allowed under Fair Use, it may have been shattered by the DMCA.
        IANAL, but I've had to study IP law a bit. Take i
        • Under fair use, yes. you have the right to the data. In any format you want. Copied in any way you want. Ect.

          Which part of fair use gives you this right? This is a serious question, please give details.
          • IANAL (yeah, yeah, flame away), but...

            A "fair use" is one that does not infringe on the copyright holder's ability to exploit their work for gain.

            Whether a use is "fair" depends on a number of factors: 1) does the user profit from it at the expense of the copyright holder, 2) is the use educational, 3) is the use a criticism of the work, 4) does the use involve the whole work, or a small portion of it?

            An example of a "fair use", is whistling a song you heard on the radio, or playing a purchased tape o

    • Re:Copyrights? Or Crappy Music? (Score:5, Informative)

      by djmurdoch ( 306849 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:50PM (#13688587)
      I'm also realistic enough to know that the majority are downloading music they've never paid for. Which brings up another question: If I bought a vinyl album 20 years ago, do I have the right to have those songs? I know the answer.

      In Canada you have the right to copy those songs off the album into whatever form you like, for your own personal use. You probably also have that right in the US, but it's not explicitly in the law, and it hasn't been tested in court, as far as I know.

      In Canada you also have the right to copy them from somewhere else (say your album is scratched, or whatever), again for your personal use. In the US you don't.

      In fact, in Canada this applies to songs whether you bought the album or not. The CRIA is wrong when it talks about "illegal downloads". As long as you're downloading for your own use, it's not illegal.
      • In fact, in Canada this applies to songs whether you bought the album or not. The CRIA is wrong when it talks about "illegal downloads". As long as you're downloading for your own use, it's not illegal.

        Actually, I think that it goes something like this under canadian law:

        If I burn a copy of a cd I own, and give you the copy, I'm breaking the law.

        If I give you a cd I own, you burn a copy, and return the original, no law is broken.

        Applying this to the digital world, downloading songs/media/whatever for

        • IANAL - that being said, I believe the logic as far as having uploads going on while you are legally downloading material is okay in Canada. The logic being that some|most P2Ps require (or their users do) you to also share what you are downloading. As such, you are not breaking the law as your PRIMARY intent is to download.
          • IANAL - that being said, I believe the logic as far as having uploads going on while you are legally downloading material is okay in Canada. The logic being that some|most P2Ps require (or their users do) you to also share what you are downloading. As such, you are not breaking the law as your PRIMARY intent is to download.

            nonsense. you just made that up.

            the law doesn't work that way. it makes no difference what your PRIMARY intent is, if a side-effect of your action breaks the law, it's no excuse.

            uploading
        • If I burn a copy of a cd I own, and give you the copy, I'm breaking the law.

          If I give you a cd I own, you burn a copy, and return the original, no law is broken.

          One more (salient) point:
          If I come over to your house, burn a copy of your CDs using your computer, your software, and your blanks, then no law is broken either.

          If I download music (legally) with a P2P program, then go into a folder so that I can listen to them. If someone else requests that music from my computer, I am not uploading it at all - my
          • If someone else requests that music from my computer, I am not uploading it at all - my computer is, but it's doing so at the request of the downloader. It's a very important point to consider: what action am I taking to make the copy? If the answer is "none" (and it is) then no law has been broken.

            during the proceedings where the CRIA was requesting the names of suspected file-sharers to be divulged, the judge gave an opinion basically the same as what you said here. for a while it seemed that this type of
    • If I bought a vinyl album 20 years ago, do I have the right to have those songs?

      You always have the right to have those (and any other) songs in Canada. For your own use and as long as you don't redistribute them.

      All Canadians have already been tried, found guilty and sentenced for copyright infringement. We've been paying a levy on blank CDs and tapes for years, thanks to CRIA. They've also tried to impose their levy scheme on ISP fees and DVDs and more, but thankfully failed. Anyway, CRIA drew fir

    • So are lots of people recording from these play whatever you want services, or is it too tricky?

  • Remember, Boys and Girls! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Stanistani ( 808333 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:46PM (#13688546) Homepage Journal
    The absolute best way to engage the interest of the buying, voting public...
    is a 600-page book
    *THUD*

    Of course, it would make a handy prop in court...

  • AMEN, brother! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Spy der Mann ( 805235 ) <spydermann.slash ... com minus distro> on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:48PM (#13688566) Homepage Journal
    The author (or at least the summary :P ) hits the nail on the head about the music industry: People being able to distribute their audio or video art BY THEMSELVES, making the Recording Industry redundant, if not obsolete.
  • Catch TV tune with latest celebrity fad VS 600 page boring book.. CRIA will win this "fight" over and over and over.

    If you want to get kids attenction it needs to be quick, easy and flashy. A 600 page book is none of these, where as the R/CIAA's adverts are all of them.
    • Michael Geist (the editor) also goes and does awesome talks at universities, talks on radio (CBC As it Happens and others) and TV (CTV and CBC in the last year). So, there are good Michael Geist sound bites floating around Canadian media, in addition to the largely inaccessible 600-pager he's just released.
      • Not to mention that *every single anti-CRIA article on Slashdot* has Michael Geist in the article! I'm not complaining about this; he's not only interesting to read but he's got some terrific points every once in a while, such as the fact that revenues from CD sales from 2000-2005 have declined by about 8%, while the average cost of a CD album has also dropped 8%. The CRIA want us to believe that this has to do with piracy, whereas the rest of us can put two and two together.
    • Think of this as a handy reference for the judges who will be deciding cases that deal with copywrite for the next decade or so. This book brushes aside the rhetoric and supplies the reader with concise information that may be very relevant to what they are discerning.

      It's not intended for every teenager to read, although it would be fantastic if they did.

  • Coral Cache (Score:2, Informative)

    by 9Numbernine9 ( 633974 )
    Coral Cache link here [nyud.net].

    Michael Geist is my hero.

  • +5 Awesome points (Score:4, Funny)

    by ToasterofDOOM ( 878240 ) <d.murphy.davis@gmail.com> on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:51PM (#13688599)
    As much as I love to bash Canada, this is worthy of applause. Can we borrow you to fight the RIAA when you're done?
    • Why don't you just learn from them instead? Learn the techniques, and grow some genitalia. Fight for your rights yourself.

      • I didn't intend to come across as saying 'can you do this for us,' rather I meant to say 'could you help us do it.' Assistance from a veteran in the field would help more than simply observing him and copying his actions. But thank you for being impulsive and caustic, I will try to be more specific in the future.

  • Bender (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @03:57PM (#13688649)
    Bender: "I'm not reading all that crap. Summarize it in one word!"
    Leela: "Sabotage."

     
  • When I attempt to verbalize the name "CRIA", it sounds like "seerrhea", which of course reminds me of "diarrhea".

    Indeed, it would seem that they excel at proposing and supporting legislation that is a smelly, yellow, liquidy mess that in the end soils everyone's fun.

  • Consumers Rights (Score:3, Interesting)

    by uberdave ( 526529 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @04:03PM (#13688704) Homepage
    As a consumer, I reserve the right to time shift, place shift, playback device shift, media shift, play as often, and make as many backup copies as I deem necessary, of any content that I have purchased. I reserve the right to ignore, bypass or circumvent any mechanism, process or device that prevents or hinders such activities.

  • Copyright is a Contract (Score:3, Insightful)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@@@geekazon...com> on Friday September 30, 2005 @04:03PM (#13688708) Homepage
    Nobody actually "owns" copyright or the copyrighted material itself. There are only copyright "holders" who have specific rights for a limited time, granted and enforced by the government. It's not a divine right, it's a contract between copyright holders and the public. The public agrees not to infringe for a length of time and to pay for the enforcement of the copyright, and in return the material becomes public domain when the copyright expires.

    When Congress extends copyright terms on existing material they break this contract with the public. It's as if they decided to turn all 30-year mortgages into 60-year mortgages with the stroke of a pen. Nice if you're a bank, but not if you're the one who has been faithfully making payments for years and years. The Bono Act of 1998 not only extended copyright terms to 95 years, it also retroactively reimposed copyrights on old audio recordings. All recordings made prior to 1979 are now copyrighted until the year 2067. That includes every sound ever recorded, all the way back Edison's wax cylinders made in the 1890s. Isn't that great??!!

  • In Canada (Score:3, Informative)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @04:23PM (#13688890)
    Canada is very lucky to have Jack Layton, leader of the New Democratic Party. I was reading an interview with him the other day and he was asked about the music industry's reaction to unauthorized copying. He talked about his experience teaching at university, and how the textbook publishers were predicting their own doom at the hands of widespread photocopier usage. The current textboox photocopying policy? A student may make a copy of up to 10% or one chapter of their text, whichever is shorter. The result? Students get to copy what they need and the textbook publishers are more profitable than ever (and continue to get away with RIAA-esque price gouging).
    He reasoned that the music sharing situation would be similar and he still opposes the anti-consumer solutions being supported by the Liberals and Conservatives (such as this DMCA workalike currently being forced through).

    The problem? Most of Canada's new sources lean far to the right. The Toronto Star is one of the few papers in the country that will even attempt to give the NDP a fair shot. The Sun (widely read) frequently prints stories from the Canada Free Press, a self-labelled "conservative alternative." The result is that the public almost never hears about things like this DMCA bill, and when the spotlight is on people like Jack Layton, the stories (like his amazing efforts to get wind generators built) are extremely jaded (Canada Free Press describes him as a bird-murdering maniac [canadafreepress.com]).

    The last mainstream article I read regarding music sharing was in The Sun. It described Kazaa as an "illegal service." I wrote to the editor and explained that a) Kazaa itself is not illegal in Canada and b) downloading music from P2P networks is not illegal in Canada. I received a curt letter stating that perhaps I would probably prefer to share my opinion in their moderated forums. I replied with information backing up these facts but nothing ever came back (and there was certainly no retraction).
  • You gotta FIGHT
    For your RIGHT
    To COOOOOOPY ........
  • Unfortunately, the "Intellectual Property Owners" (I hate that phrase), don't actually have to counter the six-hundred pages of cogent, articulate reasoning in this article. The merely have to wave 601 pages of nice crisp currency, the the battle is won.

    Canada, I salute you. You've been a shining light of freedom. Alas, I fear that your government has been watching the self-serving buffoons running the U.S.A. for too long, and will happily trade both their ethics and your freedom for a bit of lucre. If

    • Re:AWESOME (Score:3, Informative)

      by Beardo the Bearded ( 321478 )
      Basically, Paul Martin (the Prime Minister) is incredibly wealthy. You just don't have enough cash to bribe him. He's a slimy dickhead, but at least you know he can't be bought. I don't like the Liberals, but they're better than some of the alternatives. Basically, our parties can be summed up like this:
      Liberals (left of center): White men, dark suits, red ties.
      PC(right wing): White men, dark suits, blue ties.
      NDP(left wing): White men, look uncomfortable in dark suits, various tie colours
      BQ(seperatists): ho
      • I thank God everyday for giving us a minority government, every single day of my life. Minority government HAVE to work for real on real issues to get anything done, to get legislation to pass, they have to work on politics if they want to be reelected, they have to produce concrete result to justify their position, to convince others. They have to be political and defend their conception of the Canadian society instead of offering jobs and contracts to their friend, instead of manipulating the political sy
  • Can someone translate it into a picture book for us?

  • Weaseltraps (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @05:04PM (#13689304) Homepage Journal
    Doesn't the CRIA submit that lying PR to the Canadian government? Isn't it a crime to lie to the Canadian government? How about some decent Canadian lawyers filing some complaints with the government about these lying CRIA criminals? From what I gathered living in Canada, some fines and sentences for that kind of disgraceful conduct would at least inhibit some percentage of the weasels. The rest of them will have to be rounded up individually and skinned alive.
  • I am curious: How much of the general public cares very much? A lot of people are quite willing to copy or decrypt things illegally if that's what it takes--presumably it doesn't matter too much to them whether something is legal or not. It matters to me because if it's illegal, then I can't in conscience do it (unless it's a law that it is immoral to obey, or maybe a case of public civil disobedience against an immoral law, etc.) But many people don't mind engaging in illegal copying, illegal circumvent

  • wtf? (Score:1)

    by http ( 589131 )
    Zonk? Hello? Did you not notice the flagrant disregard for grammar in the article? The Globe and Mail's proofreader must have been drinking heavily for days. Example of things that got past that should have been redlined:

    Privacy concerns have been left behind in the drafting of the bill, says Prof. Ian Kerr, Canada Research Chair in Ethics, Law, and Technology at the University of Ottawa, because its prohibition on the circumvention of technological protection measures, a drastic technology.

    OK, does t

  • The Globe and Mail reports that Canadian law professors have countered the Canadian recording industry's misinformation campaign in a new 600-page book

    According to the professors, the 600-page books will be used to smack the Canadian recording industry's executives senseless until they agree to drop the campaign.

  • I would just like to remind Canadians about http://killbillc60.ca/ [killbillc60.ca] and specifically the page http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc60/do_somethi ng.shtml [digital-copyright.ca] which offers suggestions on what people can do.

    It is very important that people speak out, otherwise no matter how many new books are authored the government will listen to the chicken little "sky is falling" crisis manufactured by the recording, motion picture, and "software manufacturing" industries.

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