Library to Require Fingerprint to Use PCs 507
FearUncertaintyDoubt writes "Three libraries in Naperville, IL, soon will start requiring patrons who use the library's PCs to provide a fingerprint scan. The article says, ' Library officials say the added security is necessary to ensure people who are using the computers are who they say they are. Officials promise to protect the confidentiality of the fingerprint records.'"
Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Right now we give you a library card with a bar code attached to it. This is just a bar code, but it's built in," said Mark West, the library's deputy director.
To be fair that does come after this paragraph:
Naperville library officials said the technology cannot be used to reconstruct a person's actual fingerprint. The scanners, made by Naperville-based U.S. Biometrics Corp., use an algorithm to convert 15 or more specific points into a unique numeric sequence.
But it's still shockingly cavalier to describe the technology as "just a bar code". I have difficulty understanding a) why this seems like a good idea to anyone, and b) why this gentleman seems incapable of understanding people's worries about a fucking library requiring fingerprints!
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what they say... (Score:5, Funny)
In China, only old people go to the library to use computers.
1. Make fingerprint scanner
2. Con librarians into buying it
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
They can get my fingerprint when they pull my finger out of Cowboy Neal's butt.
Let's see.....Soviet Russia, Chinese old people, profit, Cowboy Neal reference. Now only if this would have been the first post....
Re:You know what they say... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:You know what they say... (Score:5, Funny)
And if you insist on using fancy accents, please use the correct one. It's cliché.
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:3, Insightful)
You need a library card, and ID, to check out a book at a library. You need this because the library does not have unlimited resources so they need to get their books back. But you've never needed to show an ID simply to read at the library. Ever. Until now.
Ya see, they got these things called logs. They track wherever you go on the web (really. I swear.). Since they have your exact I
Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
"No, no sir. We don't require photo ID to take out a book. What we do is take a photograph and then convert that to a unique numeric code called a jpeg. So you see, your fears are completely ungrounded."
KFG
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:5, Interesting)
As he states - it is a one-way algorithm. If I have your barcode off your library card, I cannot reconstruct your name, SSN, birthdate, and all that without going into the library's database. With the number-sequence that this system creates, I cannot reconstruct your fingerprint at all. I cannot reconstruct any of the data previously mentioned without going into the database. So, instead of creating a random number with the unix timestamp as a seed, they are creating a random number with your fingerprint as a seed. What is so shocking about that?
I have difficulty understanding why this seems like a good idea to anyone
Hmmm... I guess someone needs to go to your library, tell them that they are you - they can even print a fake barcode on any old library card since barcode techology is open and freely available to anyone and everyone. Then, they can surf for child porn on your account. When the feds come to your door, you can explain to them that it is a terrible idea for the library to go to every measure to ensure that patrons are who they say they are.
I have difficulty understanding why this gentleman seems incapable of understanding people's worries about a fucking library requiring fingerprints!
There is a difference between requiring fingerprints on record (actually having your fingerprint in a database somewhere) and using your fingerprint to create a random sequence of numbers. If you cannot see that, then you are forcing yourself to be blind to it.
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wouldn't it have been a hell of a lot easier to just grab your name and address off the library's server when I was hacking that? Why mess with all the fingerprint junk?
As for concerns about 'hash securit
hacker? more like the gov... (Score:3, Insightful)
sum.zero
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:3, Insightful)
As for concerns about 'hash security', isn't that what john-the-ripper is used for? Just because you can brute-force a password algorithm doesn't make it insecure. From the data provided, this is the equivalent of a 15-character password hash. The best password crackers can take months to crack 10-character password hashes. Then, even if they do figure out that a certain sequence of fingerprint identities matches up a specific hash - what? They somehow clone a finger and alter the dna to create your finger
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:4, Insightful)
This sure sounds innocent and I'm sure its meant to be, but there is certainly possible abuses which could occur. They store those 15 or more fingerprint points (after converting to a number presumably with some crpyto algorithum). When you want to log into a computer a finger print reader takes your fingerprint again and the same process (converting to numbers) happens. These are then matched up to verify who you are.
The problem is if each "encryption" of the "data" equals the same result then it CAN be used for otherthings. They don't need to actually store your fingerprint anywhere. Patriot-Act could let law enforcement use this database of numerical "fingerprints". All they have to do is feed thier database of fingerprints (or those from a crime scene etc) through the same software as was used to originally "encrypt" the library fingerprints, compare the numbers, and if the numbers match they got their guy. This doesn't require a REAL fingerprint. As long as everytime a fingerprint is put through the algorithim it gives the same result, having the ACTUAL fingerprint on file isn't much of an issue.
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:3, Informative)
Read the USA PATRIOT Act before stating what it can and cannot do. The USA PATRIOT Act's provisions for public/small business records access comes from the USA Act, which comes from FISA (passed in 1978). In order to access those records, an investigator has to go to FISC and convince a panel of judges that you are suspected of espionage, terrorism, or drug smuggling AND you have not committed a crime that would allow fo
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:3, Informative)
Now I know, the ACLU is a bunch of commie liberals, but let us not forget the very public rebuke [washingtonpost.com] Ashcroft et
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
What is so shocking about this is that I don't trust them. How can I be sure that they are telling me the truth and my entire fingerprint isn't stored in the system ?
How can I be sure that the system haven't been cracked and someone hasn't intercepted the picture of my fingerprint before the 15 points were extracted and the rest discarded ?
How can I be sure that they still only take 15 points or that another organization that jumped in the bandwaggon is also only using 15 points ? Read the fucking licensing agreemend before each time I put my thumb there ?
Re:Best. Mark of the Beast. Ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're missing the point somewhat. Why is it so god damned necessary that the police be able to personally identify you based on library usage in the first place? I'd rather have that plausible deniability there - "It might not have been me, someone could easily have stolen my card." In fact, I'd much RATHER just have library access be completely and totally anonymous.
Oh, and on another note - is it just me or is the invocation of Child Porn becoming a new Godwin's Law? Is there an epidemic of people stealing library cards to surf for child porn in public or something? ;)
They've got to know who the subversives are! (Score:2)
You scratch my back... (Score:5, Insightful)
Naperville library officials [...]
The scanners, made by Naperville-based U.S. Biometrics [...]
Both in Naperville. How coincidental. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if U.S. Biometrics wandered into the library offices and said "y'know, if you buy our fingerprint scanners we might be willing to donate a fat wad of cash to the library. We'll even discount 'em for you."
Why else would a library -- likely strapped for cash, as most are -- suddenly feel the need for (expensive) biometrics hardware out of the blue?
Re:You scratch my back... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is obviously Fascism. Let us check the 14 points (from Dr. Lawrence Britt) and see which ones the Naperville Library makes up the score on... [drum roll]
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
[I have not been to Naperville Library lately but I reckon I'll give that a +1 as they are a Library in a State of the USA and most likely have a Stars & Stripes flying on a pole outside the library... +1]
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need". The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +2]
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +3]
6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +4]
7. Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +5]
9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +6]
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +7]
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +8]
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
[Naperville Library, Score so far... +9]
Naperville Library? You are not up to scratch here. You've only made a score of nine out of a possible fourteen on your Fascist Library+ exam. We expect a greater effort in the future.
(And please... to dissuade the Liberals... please make sure that the Flag is properly lit at night (if you choose to fly it after the sunset) on the flagpole outside. The Libertarians and Veterans get upset if that is not taken care of.)
cheers
front
Re:You scratch my back... I'll trial your balloon. (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe this is a trial, subterfuge vendetta against the librarians who stiffly resisted the initial patriot and other acts that were after library patron information. See, if Illinois approves of it, other states--particularly some of the bible-belt states-- might cause this to be mass-deployed around the US. I do realize that
Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:5, Insightful)
What does that mean exactly? Doesn't the "Patriot" Act allow for law enforcement officials to easily obtain library records during investigations? I know that the ALA has spoken against the "Patriot" Act in the past but will they actually stop the LEOs from taking this information?
The three-library system this week signed a $40,646 contract with a local company, U.S. Biometrics Corp., to install fingerprint scanners on 130 computers with Internet access or a time limit on usage.
Library officials say the added security is necessary to ensure people who are using the computers are who they say they are.
$313 a computer seems like an awful lot of money for this. I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish other than wasting taxpayer dollars.
Once a patron's fingerprint has been recorded, accessing a computer will require only the touch of a finger.
"Right now we give you a library card with a bar code attached to it. This is just a bar code, but it's built in," West said.
So patrons used to scan their library card and they could use the computer? There is no difference now except a database of information tied to a fingerprint that can easily be looked into by employees, LEOs, and possible thieves.
West said the library is requiring a fingerprint to set up computer access, although patrons who object could ask a staff member to log them on to a computer.
Are they going to make this perfectly clear to all patrons with a large sign in blinking neon? I doubt it. Make sure to give the staff a hassle. We need to hassle businesses (public and private) more so that these privacy intrusions cease. We will continue heading down the slope due to "ease" if people continue to stand down.
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:5, Funny)
If you think being asked for a fingerprint is bad, try borrowing a book from me sometime.
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:2)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:4, Insightful)
Meh. Their game, their rules.
Nonsense. This is not some private enterprise or for-profit company, the article talks about the Naperville Public Library System. Paid for by taxpayers (I assume), and (as public libraries usually are) meant to serve the public. IAW: Our game, our rules.Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly why it doesn't need to be done.
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:5, Informative)
The FBI can obtain a warrant from a secret court. The librarians are forbidden from telling ANYONE about the warrant.
In my opinion, this kind of secrecy and power is dangerous and wrong. I do not relish the prospect of living in a fascist society.
Fortunately, a number of librarians appear to agree with me. In one case the FBI backed down after issuing the warrant. [about.com]
Interesting reading.
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Another case in point: Hundreds of immigrants to the United States have been held in jail for m
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:2)
What does that mean exactly? Doesn't the "Patriot" Act allow for law enforcement officials to easily obtain library records during investigations? I know that the ALA has spoken against the "Patriot" Act in the past but will they actually stop the LEOs from taking this information?
Considering that millions of people volunarily have themselves fingerprinted for security clearances and other reasons, is it really a big deal th
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:2, Interesting)
So patrons used to scan their library card and they could use the computer? There is no difference now
I disagree ... if they *used* to scan a library card, the card could be stolen, loaned to someone else, etc. That's a little tougher to do with a fingerprint, don'tcha think?
Of course, the 'BugMeNot' crew could just start mass-producing latex finger covers with some random finger print ;o)
Re:Stop this while you can, REFUSE to use it! (Score:2)
How about they waste taxpayers money ($40k) on staffing people to watch the fucking computer area (put them all in one place) so that some perverted asshole doesn't surf porn and fondle himself in front of the computers? From what the article states that's what this is all about anyway.
Sounds like a better idea to me and a lot less privacy implications. Pers
Consider before you judge... (Score:5, Interesting)
Initially, I was against this development, but after reading TFA, I actually feel al lot better aboout it, for a few reasons:
From TFA:
The library taking a stand like this gives me slightly more confidence in trusting them with biometric data...at least they won't give it up without the proper authorization, but this doesn't address the issue of data theft. The following quote, however...
Also from TFA:
It's important to note that most biometric systems work in this fashion. If each organization who wished to use biometrics were required to use their own, distinctive algorithm, the danger of other organizations using that biometric data for its own purposes would be greatly reduced.
Actually, there's just one thing in TFA that troubles me:
Come now, Mark...which is it...confidentiality or privacy? They can't both be your middle name...
^_^
What I love about Librarians.... (Score:3, Insightful)
When the PATRIOT act first came out, I remember seeing all these signs and posters around the local libraries, with quotes, explaining the abuses of that law. And, keep in mind, this is in Georgia!, on of the most Red states there is!!!
Ya know, it's ironic that "Red" is now good in America now!
For you youngsters, "red" Used to mean "Communist Fuckers".
Re:Consider before you judge... (Score:2)
Re:Consider before you judge... (Score:2)
Re:Consider before you judge... (Score:2)
A little bit of googling results in the fact that, while the library may be protecting the patrons, if it were up to the police, they would have no such ability.
When someone spotted Blaszak's inappropriate library activities, they called the police. Unfortunately, by the time the Naperville PD arrived, Blaszak had left the library. Library officials refused to disclose the patron
Re:Consider before you judge... (Score:2)
And why is this bad?
I think you misread my post...I was praising the library for sticking to their guns.
Egh (Score:5, Insightful)
This really begs the question: Why do they need to know who that the person in front of the computer is who they say they are? What purpose does this serve?
"We take people's fingerprints because we think they might be guilty of something, not because they want to use the library," said Ed Yohnka, spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois.
A very apt response from the ACLU. The problem is that we're now into the notion that "everyone is suspect" and due to that, we're going in this direction. It seems like
I could very well imagine this being linked into god-knows-what. Imagine, for instance, having $100 in parking tickets due, and the library terminal refusing you connection to their services before this due is paid.
Finally, anyone who is really interested in doing something criminal will just subvert the system. It's not like it's particularly difficult to spoof a fingerprint scanner. Remember the stories about doing it with Jello? Also, remember the fingerprint scanner that could be defeated by blowing on it?
Just like limitations on guns, just like airport security, just like locks on our doors and car alarms, and just like so many other things, this is used to punish the law abiding citizen, and does nothing to deter the hardened criminal or terrorist.
Re:Egh (Score:3, Interesting)
Freedom to read what you want without scrutiny seems like something Americans should hold dear. Using the public computers there seems like a natural extension.
I would love to dismiss this story as alarmist, but I fear the threat is real. These liberties we keep surrendering are starting to stack up. It's time to start using your votes on these issues wh
Re:Egh (Score:2)
To cover their asses legally when Hous bin Pharteen bombs the hell out of something and coordinates his efforts with other terrorists by logging in anonymously from public workstations.
This whole thing comes down to legal/financial liability.
Alternate Suggestions (Score:4, Interesting)
So there's the problem. Please include your personal counter suggestion with any criticisms.
Re:Alternate Suggestions (Score:5, Insightful)
I see a huge problem there, but this is not the solution. It's a parent's job to monitor his kids as needed. It's not acceptable to turn that over to a filter. The real problem is irresponsible parents. The secondary problem is a library staff which is enabling them, with a foolish technological non-solution to a social problem.
Yes, I'm a parent, and yes, I give my kids the supervision they need, even in the library.
Please include your personal counter suggestion with any criticisms.
The solution is to tell those parents to watch their own stinking kids.
How about making sure that the computers the kids use have big screens, clearly visible to all? That would go a long way to facilitate the parental monitoring.
Re:Alternate Suggestions (Score:5, Insightful)
library officials discovered that many patrons logged onto library computers using library cards and passwords of friends or relatives... So there's the problem. Please include your personal counter suggestion with any criticisms.
If it is illegal for children to view the restricted materials, charge the person who gave them access with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. If it is not illegal, there is no reason to waste public funds trying to restrict minor's access to the material. Do they also prevent minors from looking at nude pictures in art books somehow?
Parents should not expect their children to be restricted unless they are present to enforce that restriction. There are always ways around these measures and many valid reasons to get around them. I have yet to see a filtering mechanism for the internet that does not block content that is both important for children to know and an unintended effect of the system.
These libraries should rethink their policy. Kids will still be able to bypass this with a gummi bear, a cd-rom, or a latex copy of their parent's fingerprint. Parents will be given the false impression that their children are safe on the internet, which they won't be since filtering never works properly and can be bypassed.
Here is the main problem with what the libraries are doing. They are asking patrons to trust them that the fingerprint data will not be saved or used against them. Even if all the patrons trust the people who work at the library now, this policy will sadly outlive them and they are being asked to trust all the people who will work at the library in future. Finally, they are being asked to trust that the federal government will not step in and start requiring this data at some point in the future. Basically, they are asking for a lot of people to entrust them and their technology and their policies to protect their freedom, all without a really really damn good reason to do so.
Re:Alternate Suggestions (Score:2)
Randomly audit the users of the system, verifying picture ID's. Anyone that is caught using someone else's access gets both their own and the person who "loaned" them access revoked.
Problem solved.
Pure Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
They do politely ask you to limit yourself to ten minutes if there's a line.
There is absolutely no good reason for this and it's a clear step toward a totalitarian state.
Re:Pure Evil (Score:2)
Different libraries have different policies. Mine requires you to log in with your library card number.
They do politely ask you to limit yourself to ten minutes if there's a line.
See, at mine, we get an hour. Also, the floppy drives and USB ports are disabled to keep users from uploading and downloading
There is absolutely no good reason fo
Re:Pure Evil (Score:3, Informative)
Any library that requires a logon has a good reason for this. Considering most libraries operate autonomously from the government, what a library does has no bearing on the totalitarianism of a state.
From personal experience, I have to disagree with you here. It wasn't until after the Patriot Act was passed that public libraries stopped allowing anonymous web access. Previously, I don't remember ever entering a single library (in a number of different cities and counties in different states) that requ
And in other news, police stations... (Score:2)
Currently.. (Score:2)
Whats wrong with this system? Its sounds like they are replacing one two-factor authentication system with another. What will biometrics provide that the current system does not?
Re:Currently.. (Score:2)
The problem with library cards is that many families have a different library card for each family member. At the library I used to work at, there we
In other related news... (Score:3, Funny)
Wait a minute... Guess I'm confusing names in an otherwise similar reality.
Just some data points... (Score:3, Informative)
What about those with disabilities (severed limbs) or those with birth defects (extra fingers)? I bet the woman who started the whole "Finger found in Wendy's chili" scam won't be worried at all. She has an extra one she can use. (Okay, that's a bit too far. sorry)
Identify who someone is with a fingerprint? (Score:5, Interesting)
The whole idea is just completely absurd.
Re:Identify who someone is with a fingerprint? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a library. It's an information resource for citizens. Free access to information is a cornerstone of democracy. People's behavior changes when they know they're being tracked, whether they're doing something nefarious or not. The implications for law-abiding citizens and democracy itself are dire.
And what ever happened to that quaint phrase "presumed innocent until proven guilty". While the law on that has changed little, public attitude has turned 180 degrees. For hundreds of years municipalities and corporations have followed the principles and spirit of our founding fathers, even though they were not necessarily bound by them.
I do not want to live in any place where I'm presumed a criminal until I demonstrate otherwise. That is not a free state. That is a police state.
Scary Times (Score:2)
promise (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh... Wait.
Yeah, I don't care if it's "ethical," I think I'd just download the book I wanted to read after my community pulled something like that.
[...] Libraries Check *YOU* Out (Score:2)
Securitized for Your Protection (TM) [216.105.53.41].
Forgetting basic rules of security.. mm.. (Score:3, Interesting)
- You know
- You have
- You are
Theoretically fingerprints belong in #3So explain to me again how having a library access card with PIN numbers don't work. Hell, I'm still signing on a register to take books out - which works pretty well for the library.
Woooot! (Score:2)
"protect the confidentiality" Yeah right... (Score:5, Informative)
The Patriot Act requires libraries to turn over that sort of information [foxnews.com] to the feds when asked.
Reality check (Score:2)
I bet that's much cheaper, less confusing and less intrusive than a $40,000+ biometric ID system.
Clearing things up (Score:3, Insightful)
So before we get too many people who didn't RTFA saying that the government will be able to get people's fingerprints easily.. well, they won't. Before this a library card was required (it has your name on it), so essentially this will replace your library card as a method of keeping track of who is using the computer.
The difference, however, is that any decent criminal could get a library card with a fake name, but with this system they would have to provide a finger print (though TFA does say that it isn't always necessary, as an employee could login for them). The feds could probably create a system that would interpret the library's data to get files that they could cross-reference with their database. That, really, is the only danger.
So as it stands right now, this is pretty harmless. It's not really any different than using your library card. But, of course, they don't really make a case for why the finger print system is being implemented other than that it might be a bit easier to use.
Re:Clearing things up (Score:2)
If this is true, then it could actually give more privacy than logging in using your library card.
Using the library card, there is a record with your name attached to it. Using the fingerprint, there wouldn't have to be a name attached to the login. The system could just take the hash from your fing
Promise (Score:2)
Don't worry everybody, nothing to see here. They promised!
Necessary Evil (Score:2, Insightful)
Library PCs are still accessible, but you need to identify yourself before you use it. It could track where you've been, but considering you using the computer in a public place, in a location that is supposed to be for doing research and learning, most people shouldn't be accessing anything questionable.
It is fairly common that library computers are used as tools for shady and illegal actions. Worried that the FBI might t
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:2)
Where you are going with this is toward the Thought Police run state. You know, as this progresses you might even be able to claim political asylum or refugee status in Canada in the near future!!
How anyone could just shrug off such an obvious infringement on freedom in "The Land of the Free" is - well, utterly bafflin
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. Most libraries only have records of what you currently have checked out. They don't keep those records after the books are returned. The historical exceptions have tended to be totalitarian regimes like Stalinist Russia.
Fingerprinting library users is insanely over the top. If it was happening in my country, I'd be really worried.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Informative)
I work in a library storage facility, and many of our materials have cards not only listing the names of the people who checked out books 30 years ago, but their social security numbers, too.
For the record,
Easy workaround (Score:2, Funny)
-
Eat at Wendy's
-
Order the Chili
-
Use that thumb
[/ob]Card Catalog Resources Too? (Score:2)
A library is a public resource. They don't need to know who you are unless you plan on checking out a resource to remove from the premises.
"we see here that you were looking up a book about explosives, please come down to the station so we can talk"
biometrics are bad, m'kay? (Score:3, Informative)
engadget version of story [engadget.com]
bbc version of story [bbc.co.uk]
another possible use i could see (Score:2)
Promises, promises... (Score:2)
So, that said, I think I can accept their promise not to violate the confidentiality of their records, as long as they can accept the pro
How about this.... (Score:2)
The problem with this... (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is it a problem (especially for me, a Canadian resident and British citizen)? Well, simply because I do not trust your government. I currently have *no choice* but to be fingerprinted if I wish to enter the USA. I need to do that for my work, so I just assume the position.
However, it literally makes me think twice about expressing my opinion freely on the net. Anyone who's had to deal with US immigration as a non-US Citizen knows exactly what the attitude is. It would come as no surprise whatever for me to be taken aside at immigration and questioned about opinions I had expressed.
I and many people of my acquaintance have deliberately avoided going the the US since 9/11 simply because of the strange feeling of entering an authoritarian state. The 'new normal' is not normal.
Cameras instead? (Score:2)
But I don't have any fingers! (Score:3, Insightful)
This is Naperville (Score:4, Informative)
Property values are high, and that keeps the riff-raff out. In the first Naperville neighborhood I lived in, the Chicago Housing Authority had a plan to build mixed-income housing. This was met with bitter resistance, under the guise of worry about gang activity and declining property values. This from a group of senior citizens for whom lower property values would save a lot of money in property taxes.
It's about the last place I'd expect a public outcry against anything claimed to be "for the children," privacy be damned. But maybe things have changed since I left. I hope so, but I'm not optimistic. So should there be such an outcry, I'd gain back a lot of lost faith in Naperville.
On the plus side for the Naperville Public Libraries, they were very receptive to my suggestion of installing Firefox on the same machines that will have the fingerprint scanners. Though that may have been because I said the popup blocking would suppress inappropriate popups, you know, for the children.
Oh brother... (Score:2)
Librarian: "Excuse me, Timmy, but if you're planning on surfing SublimeDirectory, you'll have to scan your fingerprint!"
Timmy: "But I'm afraid my mommy will find out!?"
Librarian: "Don't be silly! Surfing porn is a freedom we value here at the public library. One we feel should not only be stifled by us, but your parents either! Rest assured, your activities will be strictly confidential!"
And In Other News (Score:2)
Scary Stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
All it takes is for Congress to give the word and the fingerprint-the-foreigners policy could be used on American citizens as well at the nations airports. That will happen within a few years, I have no doubt about it. Congress has already mandated a national ID card for everyone. U.S. passports will contain biometric information starting later this year. The military is gaining a lot of experience and knowledge in how to round people up and get them into The System en masse.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Too bad Americans have been asleep at the switch for so long. We are already past the point of no return with respect to the loss of so many liberties we took for granted.
I NEVER thought I'd say this, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
"We shall change into the first Galactic Empire for a safe and secure society."
"So this is how freedom dies - to thunderous applause."
""You're either with me or against me."
"Only a Sith deals in such absolutes."
(Anyone with functioning brain should realize that Lucas is saying that Bush is no better than a Sith.)
It's not that these sentiments are new or radical; it's that they're present in one of the best-hyped mass market franchises of all time. Joe Sixpack will watch this movie! With his kids! Hell, I almost wish that this movie was rated PG, so that more kids will see it. Sitheven puts it in the context of Judeo-Christian style morality, which should make it even easier for the unwashed masses to digest.
I don't think it's too late for us. We who actually recognize and remember the true spirit of America (distrust of and freedom from our government) would do well to recomend this movie to our more trusting, sheep-like friends. It's like 1984, but with enough explosions to keep the audience interested.
I still wish we could've seen Jar-Jar's bloody head was splattered against the camera, and I really wish Lucas would get someone else to do his dialog (Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" *sounds of audience retching*), but if you can look past these flaws, it really is an awesome, insightful, RELEVANT movie.
Re:I NEVER thought I'd say this, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Whether Lucas intended to make this satirical point or not, does anyone actually think that Joe Sixpack, much less his kids, will pick up on this?
I don't, but that could just be the cynicism talking...
Re:Scary Stuff (Score:3, Insightful)
And you know what? This is precisely why I, a UK citizen, won't be visting the US again. I'm sure my tourist dollars won't mean much to the US government; but I'm certainly not alone in that decision.
Doesn't this violate professional standards? (Score:3, Interesting)
So I put the letter in an envelope, sealed it, and hiked down to the library.
I told the librarian what I had found, and asked her to contact the person who had borrowed the book and tell them they'd left something in it. She replied "Oh, no, I can't do that. We destroy the borrowing records as soon as the book is returned, so nobody can check up on what you are reading. Doing otherwise would be a breach of professional ethics."
I was impressed. What a great country, I thought, where our public institutions protect our right of privacy.
Maybe this is part of the "Everything" that our political leaders tell us has changed since 9/11.
It's a Library for Heaven's Sake! (Score:4, Insightful)
And this is important to know because...
Okay, they make the case that it identified the perp of a criminal act that included using the computer. A weak point, but I'll have to give them that one.
The stored numeric data cannot be used to reconstruct a fingerprint, West said, nor can it be cross-referenced with other fingerprint databases such as those kept by the FBI or the Illinois State Police.
Not unless the other police agencies start using the same system, in which case each should come up with the same unique identifying number, wouldn't you bet?
Officials promise to protect the confidentiality of the fingerprint records.
Don't know about you, but I'd feel a lot better if they stated just how long they planed to maintain these records, and how they would be destroyed afterwards. That is truly a missing piece of information in the original article.
Re:Where can I obtain... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:PATRIOT ACT (Score:2)
Re:And this is why... (Score:2)
funding for this kind of thing comes from a grant. Most likely, some foundation or another is providing the equipment and money for this library. When I was a librarian, outside of heating, electricity and insurance, grants and donations covered almost 95% of all other expendetures
Re:Oh, Naperville. Why can't you leave me alone? (Score:3, Informative)
You misspelled "neo-cons".
Re:Oh, Naperville. Why can't you leave me alone? (Score:2)
Anyway, apparently you haven't been to high schools lately. Naperville's isn't the most expensive high school in the midwest, not be a long shot.
There are also all those problems that you cite in many high schools in the country. It's much much worse in some areas.
BTW, Godwin's Law [wikipedia.org] invoked.
Re:Oh, Naperville. Why can't you leave me alone? (Score:3, Informative)
PS - According to the Wikipedia article you linked to, "In addition, it is considered poor form to invoke the law explicitly."
You also failed to take into account "Quirk's Exception" to Godwin's Law, which is "Intentional invocation of this so-called 'N
OK, I call BS... (Score:3, Informative)
FWIW, Keyes registered address was in the south 'burbs (South Holland, if I recall correctly), as those of us who actually had to live through the fiasco know. In truth, Alan seemed to spend most of his time in Illinois giving news conferences downtown or at O'Hare, so whatever his address was, it was probably irrelevant. Given that he got wh [dupageresults.com]
Re:OK, I call BS... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's Illinois, the right votes Democrat just as often as they vote Republican. I mean, you have heard of conservative Democrats, right? Hell, the strongman of Chicago, Daley, is not exactly what I would call a 'liberal.'
Alan Keyes got whalloped everywhere because he's not from Illinois, and Obama is a better politician. But voting records aren't the final authority on the culture of a community.
And yes, I did leave ten years ago to a nearby city. If you want to call me a liar for pointing out what I went through as a kid in "the best city in America to raise children", then whatever. Suffice to say, way too many people are familiar with Linden Oaks than should be.
Naperville has problems on a scale that no other community I've lived in has had. For instance, heroin use has gone through the roof in the past few years. Already two people I've known have died from overdoses, three have been through rehab, and one was clinically dead. None of them are what you would call stereotypical drug users. Domestic violence was a huge problem, until all of a sudden you just stopped hearing about it. Nothing changed, just nobody reported it anymore.
Naperville has the money and the blinders to pretend that they don't exist, but you know as well as I do, that the place has some fucked up shit going on underneath the surface.