Canadian Music Swappers Win Court Battle 220
Columbo writes "The CBC has an article today detailing a win for file sharers in Canadian courts. The ruling upheld the right of ISPs to withhold the names and addresses of people alleged to be trading copious amounts of music via P2P networks. The unanimous decision doesn't completely close the door for further action against the ISPs by the Canadian Recording Industry Association."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (Score:2, Informative)
Lets Roll! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
Well at this point we're talking about the great grand-parent poster, so it just might be possible.
In canada music swapping is only for old people.
Just to be anal (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Just to be anal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just to be anal (Score:2)
Thats true, and really they weren't fighting Americans, they were fighting the British that didnt want to be British anymore.
And they didn't want to be British because they knew the British would spawn a Canadian commonwealth where the courts would allow thought thieves [slashdot.org] to roam the streets freely!
Re:Just to be anal (Score:2)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
The War of 1812 - Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie (Score:5, Funny)
To before you had TV,
No hockey night in Canada,
There was no CBC (Oh, my God!).
In 1812, Madison was mad,
He was the president, you know
Well, he thought he'd tell the British where they ought to go
He thought he'd invade Canada,
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to Washington....
And burned down all his stuff!
And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we're the one's that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!
Now some hillbillies from Kentucky,
Dressed in green and red,
Left home to fight in Canada,
But they returned home dead
It's the only war the Yankees lost, except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo... and the Bay of... ham.
The loser was America,
The winner was ourselves,
So join right in and gloat about the War of 1812
And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we're the one's that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!
In 1812, we were just sittin' around,
Mindin' our own business, puttin' crops into the ground.
We heard the soldiers coming and we didn't like that sound.
So we took a boat to Washington and burned it to the ground.
Oh... we... fired our guns, but the Yankees kept-a coming,
There wasn't quite as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and the Yankees started running,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, oh, oh....
They ran through the snow and they ran through the forest,
They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go.
They ran so fast, they forgot to take their culture,
Back to America, and Gulf and Texaco
So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we'll burn the White House twice!
And the White House burned, burned, burned,
But the Americans won't admit it
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, I bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
; )
-b
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
So unless everyone who pronounce it that way is hidden in Yukon and Nunavut, it's "about".
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:4, Interesting)
So there.
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
Know anybody who actually say "eh?", I haven't met one either.
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
They had me at the red and white, but lost me on the 'eh?'.
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:2)
I spent 5 years in California and I don't know how often people asked me where I was from because of how I said about. Something like abba-ow-ut more drawn out than down south.
My wife was raised in Sarnia which is across from Detroit and it is funny how many people in Ottawa think she is 'merkin
Re:Lets Roll! (Score:1)
Its far from over though ... (Score:5, Interesting)
The CRIA was told, if they wanted too, to come back "with stronger, and more current, evidence".
It might be interesting to see how they come back and how the Canadian courts view their new case.
Lets hope privacy wins the day!
Now, back to watching my government possibly lose a confidence vote
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:5, Insightful)
What this country really needs is an NDP government with a slight minority, supported issue-by-issue by former backbench Liberals and BQ members.
Well, that, and a media that investigates stories instead of just taking whatever the PR firms say, a ban on raw-log exports, and a non-insane regime leading our large neighbour.
(according to the CBC, the budget bill passed, with the speaker breaking the tie in favour of the administration)
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:4, Insightful)
NDP? *shudder* (Score:2)
Having lived in Manitoba most of my life, believe me: the last thing we want running this country is the NDP. They've practially ruined the province, ensuring it will stay as a rural backwater for decades to come. Winnipeg used to be one of Canada's biggest and fastest-growing cities, and now it hasn't changed in 30 years. Meanwhile, pretty much every other city in Canada over 100,000 people is growing. Businesses simply will not m
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Leighton's spending desires somehow allowed him to vote with the liberals and support the budget last night. Had leighton not whored himself and his party, in support of a clearly corrupt government, your statements may have carried weight.
After the events of last night and those leading up to it, can you still say that you can trust the federal NPD?
We know that leighton is a w
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:2)
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not whoring, it's strategy.
Layton dictated what the government's spending policy would be and then supported that policy to the benefit of all Canadians. Since the Reform-Bloc alliance will consistently vote against the government on confidence votes, the NDP can use their balance of power to achieve their goals - that's not whorish, it's just being smart. Now the NDP i
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:2)
You bet it's far from over (Score:2)
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:2)
It might be interesting to see how they come back and how the Canadian courts view their new case.
Lets hope privacy wins the day!"
It looks like the judges want to see evidence of actual file transfers, not just people who have a lot of files their sharing. I'm not sure how they expect a private organization to collect such information without the help of law enforcement since it amounts to snooping packets on
But the appeals court judges were wrong... (Score:2)
If it becomes a crime, it'll be because Canadian legislators forgot what they did last time, perhaps stimulated by some nameless freebies we'll never know about.
For now, this is over, but if the amnesiac Commons goes back on its own word, the ball game will start all over again. arggghhhh...ank
Re:But the appeals court judges were wrong... (Score:2)
Hey, wait a minute... This could mean that participating in a casual torrent (as opposed to a provider-sanctioned one) runs counter to the statute already because in that case your machine _is_ uploading parts of it to someone else's machine.
As to amending the law, I'll bet you're right -- unl
Re:Confidence vote (Score:2)
Could be one of the happiest days of my life. I'm still not quite sure who's worse, GWB, or Stephen Harper...
(though I lean towards GWB in that case).
N.
Re:Confidence vote (Score:2)
Glad to see the budget vote passed today. Tories scare the crap out of me.
Re:Confidence vote (Score:3, Insightful)
Liberals are more selfish than conservatives. Conservatives want to keep their own money while liberals want to keep money earned by conservatives.
Canadian politicians and corruption (Score:2)
But the way I see it, all parties are corrupt.
Conservatives would give money and the country's assets away to their rich friends who were of "old money" and quite often foreign. (I'm thinking Mulroney and corporatization of Canada, Ontario tories and selling the toll highway to Spain)
Liberals are on the hook now for giving money away to rich friends who are of the nouveau riche and usually Canadian. (Chuck Gite might be french, but he's still Canadian)
The NDP wou
Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:2)
I would usually agree, but I still feel safer with Martin in office than having Stephen Harper be our prime minister (although it looks like Liberals are up in the polls again).
Consider immigration to the north... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh we're going that way are we?
See, the first post was a *slight* exaggeration of the truth. Your post is, how shall i put it, not at all true. So we'll follow that game:
There are reasons to live in Canada, such as not getting shot at every 5 minutes, dwelling within a massive toxic cloud of smog, or having to witness one of the most painfully appalling pieces of urban blight ever foisted upon the Earth by the hand of man.
Sorry - was I exaggerating?
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Come on, Toronto isn't that bad.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
I love Canada. I'm not sure that I could take the cold, but I love the culture. If I ever find myself short of a job again, I'll definitely put forth the effort to immigrate
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:4, Insightful)
On the con side, 5 months winter or worse, higher income tax, and a fairly continuous shafting by the US in trade agreements.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Just move to Vancouver
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Wink wink, nudge nudge. For definitions of "now and then" equivalent to 48 out of 52 weeks per year
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Shut Up!
It rains here all the time. Really. Pay no attention to the Voice behind the posting. Move along.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Canada has made out extremely well from free trade. Trade is now 40% of the Canadian economy. I think what you mean is that the US shafts Canada by not living up to its end of the trade agreements.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2, Informative)
Weed isn't legal. There have been talks of decriminalizing carrying small amounts, you'd get fined for having it, not sent to jail. At the same time they'd be implementing bigger penalties against those carrying large amounts and selling it.
Essentially the idea is prevent the average person from rediculous punishments but at the same time crack down on the criminal element.
Marjaunna isn't the serious drug that its been made out to be. As I understand it the original laws were based on a lot of wron
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
And didn't Canada rule that it is legal for Canadians to decrypt digital satellite signals from companies such as Dish which don't sell in Canada? That would be another benefit for anyone thinking of immigrating
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
No. Grey-market satellite dishes are illegal here too, but for different reasons (canadian content quotas, blah blah blah)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Though he's still technically wrong, as there are fines for having Scentless Chamomile growing in your ditch if you're a farmer.
Just another useless fact that I know instead of anything marketable.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Weed is not legal, and music is not free, it's just payed for every time you buy an Audio cassette, blank CD, blank DVD, mp3 player, etc.
Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:2)
Marijuana hasn't been decriminalised in any state. Some states have passed a "medical marijuana" bill, which would allow a doctor to prescribe it. That doesn't matter, though, it's still against federal law.
Marijuana hasn't been legal in the US since the seventies (briefly, after Timothy Leary successfully challenged the Marijuana Tax Act in the US Supreme Court, who found it unconstitutional.) and before that it was first prohibited in 1932. After Leary's challenge Marijuana was classified as a proscribed
/. exaggerates again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also in the article:
Summary: a non-event.text of the ruling (Score:5, Interesting)
This ruling may only be a temporary setback for the CRIA -- it talks about copyright holders "being robbed of the fruit of their efforts", and seems to give guidelines for better evidence collection practices for future litigation...
Re:text of the ruling (Score:2)
"copyright holders" = record companies, not musicians.
"their efforts" = acquiring the rights to other people's work for nothing.
My heart bleeds.
Petition for Users' Rights (Score:5, Informative)
This petition [digital-copyright.ca] "is a way of letting Parliament know that you want to be considered and that you don't want your rights to be abraded every time the music industry's profits slip a little." Please sign it if you're Canadian and agree with it.
nice to see the gov's are not complete idiots (Score:4, Interesting)
RIAA (and MPAA) need to get some criminal proof so they can use subpenoa's, otherwise, just pointing and saying 'gimmie' is not going to make the courts jump on their side.
P2P does not appear to be dying, as long as you lump bittorrent under that umbrella.
I'm suprised more people are not using services like http://fastmail.fm/ [fastmail.fm] and http://www.shinyfeet.com/ [shinyfeet.com]file sharing (well fastmail does not have sharing, but you can put small files into a public folder - shinyfeet is unlimited space/storage but no public, must be shinyfeetshinyfeet)
but I guess those services are too much like the old napster.
Re:nice to see the gov's are not complete idiots (Score:2)
1 area of protection, useful to all? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why canada? Why not start an ISP in a country with enough infrastructure to give you a good backbone, but so little law that the RIAA and it's equivelants cannot sue you? You provide a proxy for a nominal fee and downloaders and uploaders can proxy through you without fear of reprisal. You are the end of the line and not obligated to release any information about the next step.
Re:1 area of protection, useful to all? (Score:3, Insightful)
You forget, my friend, the reason these people would need such a service is because they don't want to pay.
Re:1 area of protection, useful to all? (Score:2)
Then supernews/giganews subscriptions are a figments of my imagination.
Re:1 area of protection, useful to all? (Score:2)
A win for file sharers? (Score:4, Insightful)
File sharers will still be prosecutable, those doing the prosecuting will simply have to do a bit more work in order to find out who they are, and this is GOOD.
Re:A win for file sharers? (Score:2)
Re:A win for file sharers? (Score:2)
In Canada, these two groups will now be synonymous.
Glad they said this... (Score:4, Insightful)
On first reading this article you may quickly come to the conclusion that this court case decided that sharing music wasn't breaking any laws at all. It's obvious that the judicial system sees that there is something wrong with sharing music, but at least until they come to the official conclusion and write that down, it's nice to see they'll uphold the rights of the ISPs' customers.
Transitions (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Transitions (Score:2)
Sure, maybe it's a chore to put on all the extras and such, but as Peter Jackson abley demonstrated: that's what EXTENDED EDITIONS are for.
If the movie is exciting and captivating, I imagine there'd be a stampede to the exit to get the Theatrical Edition of the DVDs the moment the credits start rolling.
Not a win - "file sharing legal" overturned (Score:1, Informative)
Doesn't change anything (Score:2)
Will this lead to internet "wire tapping" (Score:2)
Re:Will this lead to internet "wire tapping" (Score:2)
Are they? Not if it isn't against the laws of Canada they're not.
It would seem file-swapping is in a grey area currently, and you also may not realise but all blank media and MP3 players sold in Canada are subject to a tarrif.
This tarrif goes to the Canadian Recording Industry to offset "loss of sales" due to people copying tapes (this tarrif has been around a while), then CD's and now DVD's.
If they charge a tarrif on our media and ma
Actually, it's more like (Score:2)
Re:Silly Question time (Score:1)
I believe it is not because it is too difficult for the average user. Until someone comes up with a proxy service (like someone commented a few mins earlier) and focuses on ease of use.
they could probably still install spyware, keyloggers, trojans and more - but get paid directly from the user
Re:Silly Question time (Score:1)
Nothing, I suppose, if all the data remains in the said country. Go up North, eh, set up a server, and download the music to the proxy HDD to your heart's consent.
Try to transmit the data to the US, or bring the HDD from Canada into the US, though, and things would probably get illegal quickly.
Re:Silly Question time (Score:2)
Try to transmit the data to the US, or bring the HDD from Canada into the US, though, and things would probably get illegal quickly.
I think this statement misses the point - it is not about downloading being legal or not. The point is right now when someone downloads from P2P, they can be be easily (and legaly) traced to their ISP via their IP.
Re:Silly Question time (Score:3, Informative)
The levy on recordable media is to account for the reproduction of copyrighted works, yes. However, it is only under the provisio that the end user of the copy perform the actual copying.
Case 1: You like a CD I have. You come over to my house, rip that CD on my computer, burn it onto another CD, and leave.
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:2, Informative)
If you use the word "stealing" to describe copyright infringement, then you're lying - it's a totally different section of the law. More importantly, however, Canadian law explicitly permits us to make private copies of audio recordings without paying additional royalties, because of the levy we've already paid in the price of the blank media. Part of the qu
Re:If its illeagel will they stop the levy on blan (Score:2)
It's obvious the downloader is creating the copy. They're the one searching for what they want, they're the one clicking on the link to download it, and they're the one moving it to their MP3 server when it's done. (Yes, I have an MP3 server. Sue me. Oh....wait.....)
Saying the uploader is making the copy is stupid. It's like saying when Chuck bo
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:2)
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:2)
The POLICE may perform an investigation, gathering data via well established laws and procedures. If they do not have sufficient evidence to get a warrant, then they cannot get the data, period, even for real crimes
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:3, Interesting)
Sharing my data privately is not a crime in any moral sense. Show me in your Bible or Koran where it says I can't copy ideas or information.
"You are NOT entitled to have a copy of that song you like so much. "
If someone is willing to share it with me, I absolutely have the right (as a human being) to accept a copy. Copyright is simply an abridgement of my right to use my own computer and my own d
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:4, Interesting)
This quote is interesting in this context. You left out his other famous quote from the same notebook:
"Whenever a copyright law is to be made or altered, then the idiots assemble."
Twain was a very vocal lobbyist and perhaps instrumental in getting the US to adopt international copyright protection. He was strongly in favour of perpetual copyright. (He was annoyed that publishers were ignoring American works in favour of English ones which were cheap, having no royalty costs) (since int'l copyrights weren't being respected by the publishers)
I say the quote is interesting in this context because Twain had been burned by Canadian 'pirate' publishers, who reprinted some of his early works without compensation. He wound up spending a few weeks in Montreal trying to meet a residency requirement so that he could claim a canadian copyright on the prince and the pauper.
Anyway -- the inclusion of a Twain quote detracts from your argument that copying is not stealing, specifically because I think Twain would disagree with you. In his view, copying *did* equate to stealing. He viewed even the existence of a limitation on copyright to be stealing. (see his address to Congress, for example. He argues that ideas are property). His intended meaning with that quote was that the existing copyright law wasn't strong enough to support his ownership rights as an author, not that having copyrights was nonsensical.
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:3, Insightful)
True, but being concerned about the legality of an action is not the same thing as being concerned about the ethics of an action. You can be worried... that doesn't mean you feel guilty.
I mean, imagine if someone stole your stuff, but the police told you that they would get it back, but they aren't allowed to find out where they live.
As a matter of fact, lots of evidence is throw
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:2)
I thought in canada you did have this right - as everyone who buys any kind of recording medium pays a corperate tax on it that goes back to the assoc
You misunderstand. (Score:3, Interesting)
The three-judge appellate court specifically reprimanded a lower court for commenting on the legality of file-sharing in Canada; the issue at hand is whether the recording companies have enough evidence to force ISP's to reveal their users real names, and NOT the legality of file-sharing. All the appellate court said was, "provide us with more evidence than you have now, and we'll reconsider your request." Read the part about the lawsuit
Re:Oh yay, we can pirate safely now in Canada! (Score:2)
I may be wrong, but I believe that copyright is supposed to be something we choose to give creaters for a "short" period (7 years), and it's only point/intention is to get more material into the public domain.
The differences between the paraphrase above and what we have now (100+ years and the concept that they are entitled to these rights by God or Nature or something) has been stolen from us by wealthy leaches who can't create a turd withou
Re:The good news is that the music is free... (Score:2)
Re:Yay for Canada! (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course she also brought rain with her, but I imagine we can use it.
Re:So they were PROVEN music swappers? (Score:2)
Actually, "leech" refers to downloading of content without giving back (e.g. clicking on banners, clicking on vote links, etc.) It is normally applied for excessive downloading (e.g. 2+ connections at once) but can be stretched to almost anyone.
The term you're looking for is "freeloader", where everything is done without paying money. It doesn't that the user won't support the site - it just mea
Re:Vidéotron already did it (Score:2, Informative)
sorry, but that is completely incorrect. there are privacy laws that make it illegal for a business, like an isp, to give out personal information without a court order. the other isp's sent lawyers to argue against the granting of the court order that CRIA was seeking. videotron did not.
however, videotron did *not* give out any inf