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Canadian Music Swappers Win Court Battle 220

Posted by CowboyNeal from the carry-on dept.
Columbo writes "The CBC has an article today detailing a win for file sharers in Canadian courts. The ruling upheld the right of ISPs to withhold the names and addresses of people alleged to be trading copious amounts of music via P2P networks. The unanimous decision doesn't completely close the door for further action against the ISPs by the Canadian Recording Industry Association."
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Canadian Music Swappers Win Court Battle More

Canadian Music Swappers Win Court Battle

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  • Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 19, 2005 @05:55PM (#12583359)
    That's what they told the recording industry.

  • Lets Roll! (Score:5, Funny)

    by krbvroc1 ( 725200 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @05:56PM (#12583370)
    Alright RIAA, Lets Roll! Time to take over those pesky northerners who harbor p2p fugitives and play fast and loose with copyrights. Bring it on! You are either with us or against us -- Hee-haa!

    • Re:Lets Roll! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Quirk ( 36086 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:00PM (#12583410) Homepage Journal
      Not to Troll "yer" cowboy Let's Roll, but... ermm remember 1812? Oh yes we can do it again.
      • Not that I'm not happy about the historical fact that Canadians burned down the whitehouse, but I really don't think the GP was around in 1812...

      • The War of 1812 - Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie (Score:5, Funny)

        by Feztaa ( 633745 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @09:42PM (#12585155) Homepage
        Oh, come back, proud Canadians
        To before you had TV,
        No hockey night in Canada,
        There was no CBC (Oh, my God!).
        In 1812, Madison was mad,
        He was the president, you know
        Well, he thought he'd tell the British where they ought to go
        He thought he'd invade Canada,
        He thought that he was tough
        Instead we went to Washington....
        And burned down all his stuff!

        And the White House burned, burned, burned,
        And we're the one's that did it!
        It burned, burned, burned,
        While the president ran and cried.
        It burned, burned, burned,
        And things were very historical.
        And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
        Waa waa waah!
        In the War of 1812!

        Now some hillbillies from Kentucky,
        Dressed in green and red,
        Left home to fight in Canada,
        But they returned home dead
        It's the only war the Yankees lost, except for Vietnam
        And also the Alamo... and the Bay of... ham.
        The loser was America,
        The winner was ourselves,
        So join right in and gloat about the War of 1812

        And the White House burned, burned, burned,
        And we're the one's that did it!
        It burned, burned, burned,
        While the president ran and cried.
        It burned, burned, burned,
        And things were very historical.
        And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
        Waa waa waah!
        In the War of 1812!

        In 1812, we were just sittin' around,
        Mindin' our own business, puttin' crops into the ground.
        We heard the soldiers coming and we didn't like that sound.
        So we took a boat to Washington and burned it to the ground.

        Oh... we... fired our guns, but the Yankees kept-a coming,
        There wasn't quite as many as there was a while ago.
        We fired once more and the Yankees started running,
        Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, oh, oh....
        They ran through the snow and they ran through the forest,
        They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go.
        They ran so fast, they forgot to take their culture,
        Back to America, and Gulf and Texaco

        So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
        Bring a pack of matches, and we'll burn the White House twice!

        And the White House burned, burned, burned,
        But the Americans won't admit it
        It burned, burned, burned,
        It burned and burned and burned
        It burned, burned, burned,
        Now, I bet that made them mad
        And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
        Waa waa waah!
        In the War of 1812!
    • What the fuck does Optimus Prime have to do with this?

  • Its far from over though ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lanhdanan ( 676256 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:01PM (#12583424) Homepage
    The court also said "The appeal will be dismissed without prejudice to the plaintiffs' right to commence a further application for disclosure of the identity of the `users' taking into account these reasons,''

    The CRIA was told, if they wanted too, to come back "with stronger, and more current, evidence".

    It might be interesting to see how they come back and how the Canadian courts view their new case.

    Lets hope privacy wins the day!

    Now, back to watching my government possibly lose a confidence vote :(

    • Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by temojen ( 678985 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:16PM (#12583558) Journal
      As much as I despise Paul Martin, Ujjal Dosanjh, and Belinda Stronach, the regressive conservatives are even worse.

      What this country really needs is an NDP government with a slight minority, supported issue-by-issue by former backbench Liberals and BQ members.

      Well, that, and a media that investigates stories instead of just taking whatever the PR firms say, a ban on raw-log exports, and a non-insane regime leading our large neighbour.

      (according to the CBC, the budget bill passed, with the speaker breaking the tie in favour of the administration)

      • Re:Its far from over though ... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by temojen ( 678985 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @08:34PM (#12584721) Journal
        When moderating, please remember "Troll" means intentionally inflamatory, not just something you disagree with.
      • What this country really needs is an NDP government with a slight minority

        Having lived in Manitoba most of my life, believe me: the last thing we want running this country is the NDP. They've practially ruined the province, ensuring it will stay as a rural backwater for decades to come. Winnipeg used to be one of Canada's biggest and fastest-growing cities, and now it hasn't changed in 30 years. Meanwhile, pretty much every other city in Canada over 100,000 people is growing. Businesses simply will not m
    • If the Canadians have learned anything from the RIAA, they'll bribe their legislature to change the law so they can win next time.
    • "The CRIA was told, if they wanted too, to come back "with stronger, and more current, evidence".

      It might be interesting to see how they come back and how the Canadian courts view their new case.

      Lets hope privacy wins the day!"

      It looks like the judges want to see evidence of actual file transfers, not just people who have a lot of files their sharing. I'm not sure how they expect a private organization to collect such information without the help of law enforcement since it amounts to snooping packets on
    • ...to say that the lower judge shouldn't have said anything about file sharing being legal or not. Canadian law very clearly institutes a surcharge on recordable media so that the act of downloading is NOT A CRIME.

      If it becomes a crime, it'll be because Canadian legislators forgot what they did last time, perhaps stimulated by some nameless freebies we'll never know about.

      For now, this is over, but if the amnesiac Commons goes back on its own word, the ball game will start all over again. arggghhhh...ank

  • Consider immigration to the north... (Score:5, Funny)

    by grumpyman ( 849537 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:03PM (#12583437)
    ...where weeds are legal, gays can marry and music is free!
    • And the sun shines for all of three hours in the winter, and the snow falls for eight months, and you have to get on a months-long waiting list to see certain types of doctors? I love many things about Canada, my ancestral home, but there are reasons to live in Los Angeles. Like wearing flip-flops in January. and filling your gas tank for less than $75.

      • Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @08:57PM (#12584860)
        And the sun shines for all of three hours in the winter, and the snow falls for eight months, and you have to get on a months-long waiting list to see certain types of doctors? I love many things about Canada, my ancestral home, but there are reasons to live in Los Angeles. Like wearing flip-flops in January. and filling your gas tank for less than $75.

        Oh we're going that way are we?

        See, the first post was a *slight* exaggeration of the truth. Your post is, how shall i put it, not at all true. So we'll follow that game:

        There are reasons to live in Canada, such as not getting shot at every 5 minutes, dwelling within a massive toxic cloud of smog, or having to witness one of the most painfully appalling pieces of urban blight ever foisted upon the Earth by the hand of man.

        Sorry - was I exaggerating?

        • There are reasons to live in Canada, such as not getting shot at every 5 minutes, dwelling within a massive toxic cloud of smog, or having to witness one of the most painfully appalling pieces of urban blight ever foisted upon the Earth by the hand of man.

          Come on, Toronto isn't that bad.
        • LA is a crap city for tourists, but people fail to realize that if you're part of the wealthy elite, Los Angeles has more to do than anywhere else on the west coast. Sure, it's a cesspool, but it's also full of variety and culture.
        • Yeah, hating LA is quite popular. But the only place I've ever been shot at was at a mall in Seattle. And the smog here was bad in the 80s, but it's gotten better nearly every year since then, even as the population grows. I love the music, the art, the mix of cultures (80 percent of homes in LA have a first language other than English. Yeah. That's right. 80 percent.) And the weather, well the weather is stunning. I run my air conditioner maybe ten days a year, and rarely need to wear a jacket. How can you

    • Re:Consider immigration to the north... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Kwil ( 53679 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:14PM (#12583540)
      You also forgot where the federal budget has been balanced for 7 years, which repeatedly scores above the US in "best place to live in" surveys by the UN, where getting sick doesn't equate to going bankrupt, and lower gun crime per capita.

      On the con side, 5 months winter or worse, higher income tax, and a fairly continuous shafting by the US in trade agreements.

    • Weed isn't legal. There have been talks of decriminalizing carrying small amounts, you'd get fined for having it, not sent to jail. At the same time they'd be implementing bigger penalties against those carrying large amounts and selling it.

      Essentially the idea is prevent the average person from rediculous punishments but at the same time crack down on the criminal element.

      Marjaunna isn't the serious drug that its been made out to be. As I understand it the original laws were based on a lot of wron

      • At one time they were talking of legalizing it not just decriminalizing it. I remember because a few years ago I watched an interview on either c-span or pbs and the advocate of legalization was someone high up in the government. That's why it stuck in my mind. Sorry I cannot remember the specifics.

        And didn't Canada rule that it is legal for Canadians to decrypt digital satellite signals from companies such as Dish which don't sell in Canada? That would be another benefit for anyone thinking of immigrating
        • And didn't Canada rule that it is legal for Canadians to decrypt digital satellite signals from companies such as Dish which don't sell in Canada?

          No. Grey-market satellite dishes are illegal here too, but for different reasons (canadian content quotas, blah blah blah)

        • The first time I heard about rumblings of Marijuana legalization was during Trudeau's leadership. I guess it was so close to actually happening that coincidently (or maybe not) Nancy Reagan came out with her Just Say No campaign.
      • As I understand it the original laws were based on a lot of wrong information.
        Also a lot of lobbying by the petrochemical industry (hemp has a lot of the same uses as nylon and polyester).
      • If you read his comment carefully, he said that weeds are legal, with no mention of drugs.

        Though he's still technically wrong, as there are fines for having Scentless Chamomile growing in your ditch if you're a farmer.

        Just another useless fact that I know instead of anything marketable.
    • ...where weeds are legal, gays can marry and music is free!

      Weed is not legal, and music is not free, it's just payed for every time you buy an Audio cassette, blank CD, blank DVD, mp3 player, etc.

  • /. exaggerates again... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:04PM (#12583451) Journal
    From the article:
    "The appeal will be dismissed without prejudice to the plaintiffs' right to commence a further application for disclosure of the identity of the 'users' taking into account these reasons," Sexton wrote.
    Dismissed without prejudice is almost meaningless with respect to the "rights" of the eventual targets (P2P users) -- it means nothing either way.

    Also in the article:

    In Thursday's decision, the three judge-panel turned down the appeal request but wrote that the earlier ruling should not have made conclusions about whether downloading or uploading music should be illegal.
    Summary: a non-event.

  • text of the ruling (Score:5, Interesting)

    by limber ( 545551 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:07PM (#12583482) Homepage
    Here's the text of the ruling [fca-caf.gc.ca].

    This ruling may only be a temporary setback for the CRIA -- it talks about copyright holders "being robbed of the fruit of their efforts", and seems to give guidelines for better evidence collection practices for future litigation...

    • copyright holders "being robbed of the fruit of their efforts"

      "copyright holders" = record companies, not musicians.

      "their efforts" = acquiring the rights to other people's work for nothing.

      My heart bleeds.

  • Petition for Users' Rights (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:08PM (#12583487)
    The Canadian government is planning on changing copyright law to take away many of our rights (luckily, the current minority government probably won't manage to do this).

    This petition [digital-copyright.ca] "is a way of letting Parliament know that you want to be considered and that you don't want your rights to be abraded every time the music industry's profits slip a little." Please sign it if you're Canadian and agree with it.

  • nice to see the gov's are not complete idiots (Score:4, Interesting)

    by downsize ( 551098 ) * on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:09PM (#12583496) Homepage Journal
    or maybe CAN's official's palms are not as well greased like there are here [US].

    RIAA (and MPAA) need to get some criminal proof so they can use subpenoa's, otherwise, just pointing and saying 'gimmie' is not going to make the courts jump on their side.
    P2P does not appear to be dying, as long as you lump bittorrent under that umbrella.

    I'm suprised more people are not using services like http://fastmail.fm/ [fastmail.fm] and http://www.shinyfeet.com/ [shinyfeet.com]file sharing (well fastmail does not have sharing, but you can put small files into a public folder - shinyfeet is unlimited space/storage but no public, must be shinyfeetshinyfeet)
    but I guess those services are too much like the old napster.

  • 1 area of protection, useful to all? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:10PM (#12583498)
    My first thought when I saw the headline was that some ISP in Canada will now offer to provide a proxy for you to PTP networks for a small fee and a guarontee of non-disclosure.

    Why canada? Why not start an ISP in a country with enough infrastructure to give you a good backbone, but so little law that the RIAA and it's equivelants cannot sue you? You provide a proxy for a nominal fee and downloaders and uploaders can proxy through you without fear of reprisal. You are the end of the line and not obligated to release any information about the next step.

  • A win for file sharers? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mindstrm ( 20013 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:10PM (#12583500)
    It's not a win for "file sharers". It's a win for everyone, as the court demonstrated and understanding of overall privacy issues in the internet age, and didn't allow one little thing to stomp all over that.

    File sharers will still be prosecutable, those doing the prosecuting will simply have to do a bit more work in order to find out who they are, and this is GOOD.
    • Right. This doesn't in any way make the infringement legal, it just makes the infringers a trifle more comfortable. My guess is that because it will now be a little more difficult to track down the pirates/swappers, the studios will just go for larger settlements when they do connect the dots, just to make up for the effort.
    • It's not a win for "file sharers". It's a win for everyone

      In Canada, these two groups will now be synonymous.

  • Glad they said this... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bsquizzato ( 413710 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:12PM (#12583516)
    In Thursday's decision, the three judge-panel turned down the appeal request but wrote that the earlier ruling should not have made conclusions about whether downloading or uploading music should be illegal.

    On first reading this article you may quickly come to the conclusion that this court case decided that sharing music wasn't breaking any laws at all. It's obvious that the judicial system sees that there is something wrong with sharing music, but at least until they come to the official conclusion and write that down, it's nice to see they'll uphold the rights of the ISPs' customers.

  • Transitions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Thursday May 19, 2005 @06:13PM (#12583526)
    I can't wait until the music and hollywood industries wake up and start to sell their products in the way that people want to buy them. I'm more than willing to pay for my music but I'm not going to pay for a whole album when all I want is one song. It's kind of like going back to the 50's when the music industry was single driven instead of album driven. Right now we're between the old and new models of business - I can't wait until the transition is over.
    • For movies like RotS which are shot in an entirely digital format, I'm still boggled and amazed that the studios aren't selling DVDs of the film you just saw right as you walk out of the theater.

      Sure, maybe it's a chore to put on all the extras and such, but as Peter Jackson abley demonstrated: that's what EXTENDED EDITIONS are for.

      If the movie is exciting and captivating, I imagine there'd be a stampede to the exit to get the Theatrical Edition of the DVDs the moment the credits start rolling.

  • Not a win - "file sharing legal" overturned (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The court explicitly overturned the previous decision that file sharing is not copyright infringement. That question, which some people thought had been settled, is now up in the air again. Read this analysis [sooke.bc.ca] - and chalk up one more point against the Slashdot editors, because I filed a more accurate version of this story and they ran the misleading one.
  • ISPs should still delete their logs, delete them early, and delete them often. Or are there now laws that require you to keeps logs long enough for the RIAA (or it's Canadian equivalent) to subpoena them?
  • It seems the names were not revealed because, even though there were 1000s of shared files, there was no evidence anyone downloaded any of the files. So how does the music industry prove that piracy is being committed without getting a sort of "internet wiretap"? Private citizens certainly don't have this authority, so does law enforcement need to become involved. I fear that people abusing the internet and then cheering these rulings will result in laws that cause much more monitoring of internet traffic.
    • "For in the end, these people are criminals who are breaking the law."

      Are they? Not if it isn't against the laws of Canada they're not.

      It would seem file-swapping is in a grey area currently, and you also may not realise but all blank media and MP3 players sold in Canada are subject to a tarrif.

      This tarrif goes to the Canadian Recording Industry to offset "loss of sales" due to people copying tapes (this tarrif has been around a while), then CD's and now DVD's.

      If they charge a tarrif on our media and ma
  • Canadian citizens win court battle. It's not just filesharers that win when courts decide in favor of Average Joe.

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