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France May Require Biometric ID Cards 312

Posted by Zonk from the i-am-k5489028 dept.
Will Affleck-Asch writes "According to an article on Infoworld today, France may require her citizens pay for new identity cards that hold their biometric information in electronic format. The French government outlined its plan last month to replace the identity cards and passports offered to French citizens with new ones that carry a microchip containing digitized photographs and fingerprints. The plan is to introduce the passports in 2006, and the identity cards a year later. Citizens haven't been forced to carry ID cards since 1955."
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France May Require Biometric ID Cards More

France May Require Biometric ID Cards

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  • cancel them in the US then. (Score:5, Funny)

    by mobiux ( 118006 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @04:57PM (#12217279)
    You can bet if the French think it's a good idea, the US will put current plans on hold.
    • We'll just call them Freedom Cards, but require them to be chained to your ankle at all times.

    • It's probably the US requiring them (Score:5, Informative)

      by Colin Smith ( 2679 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:51PM (#12217879)
      I don't know if you've noticed but the US is now requiring biometric passports to allow entry on the Visa Waiver Program.

      e.g.
      http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/telegram s/telegr ams_1393.html

      So, next time the bombers will have to get visas to enter the country... Just like last time.

      • Re:It's probably the US requiring them (Score:4, Informative)

        by dajak ( 662256 ) on Wednesday April 13, 2005 @06:52AM (#12222061)
        Exactly. We get the biometric passport in 2006 in the Netherlands, and the official reason the government gives is that you are going to need that 'extra functionality' to enter the US.

        Either you give your biometric data to the Dutch authorities, or you give it to the US authorities. The Dutch government considers itself a better guardian of our privacy. The Dutch government is easily blackmailed into cooperation by the US government by threatening to revoke valuable customs privileges for cargo on ships from Rotterdam harbor. Our economy is based on transport and trading, after all.

        Before 2001 a move like this would have caused an emotional uproar against 'nazi practices', but people just accept it now.

        I have been able to avoid having to go to the US in recent years, but this is not good for my career. Given my line of work I will probably be waiting in line for one of those passports. I will keep it wrapped in tin foil though.

        A more recent development is that you are apparently also going to need it for just flying near US airspace: a KLM plane on its way to Mexico was turned back last week because the US somehow illegally appropriated the passenger list (from Mexico?) and found two 'suspicious' people on it that are not on any blacklist communicated with the Dutch government or KLM. The Dutch government is very pissed off about this treatment of its citizens and its national carrier.

    • Re:cancel them in the US then. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Dorsai42 ( 738671 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @08:28PM (#12219309)
      This will make it easy for the Nazi's to round them up next time. There WILL be a next time, there's ALWAYS a next time.

  • In related news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @04:58PM (#12217294) Homepage Journal

    WASHINGTON, DC (SD-NFN:YRO) Secretary Michael Chertoff, head of the Department Homeland Security has announced that beginning in 2006 US citizens will be required to carry around an ID carrying french citizen for positive identification. "If the french citizen is male, they must be wearing a beret, if female they must attempt to look as much like Audrey Hepburn as possible."

    Civil rights groups have been on watch, expecting a move by Homeland Security, requiring americans to posess biometric or more detailed identification, voicing concern of violation of constitutional rights. Elizabeth Rall, speaking for the ACLU stated this clearly would present a problem as there are more american citizens than french and require rationing. "Ms. Ralls concerns as just more bleeding heart liberal whining", retorted embattled House Majority Leader, Tom DeLay, "this is for the good of all americans and their personal safety."

    The State Department will shortly be convening a task force for the partition of France to breed more identity carriers. The Whitehouse welcomed this unexpected help from the french who strongly sided against the invasion of Iraq. "It's the least they can do for America", said White House press secretary Scott McClellan. Experts expect the french Biometric chip to resemble former french president Charles de Gaul, while an american counterpart, expected on the within 10 years will resemble former US president Ronald Reagan.

  • Can this data be one-way hashed instead of stored? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PornMaster ( 749461 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @04:59PM (#12217301) Homepage
    I would object far less to having biometric data on an ID card if it were a one-way hash than if it's storing a copy of my fingerprint/retina scan. Can the biometric data be hashed and the hash used for verification instead? Like what we do for passwords... the scary thing about someone being able to get an electronic copy of the data is the ability to make a replica.
    • Are you aware of any hashes that don't depend on invariable inputs? I don't know of any biometric measures that are used for security that can be measured with any reasonable hope of invariance.
      • Well, the reason I asked it instead of stating it is because I'm not sure if some supersmart person figured out a way to mitigate the normal variation which would happen while reading the biometric information, perhaps using redundancy in some fashion. Smart people do amazing things all the time which seem counterintuitive.

      • Re:Can this data be one-way hashed instead of stor (Score:5, Informative)

        by FleaPlus ( 6935 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @06:07PM (#12218051) Journal
        http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=biometric+hash [google.com]

        First result:

        Biometric hash based on statistical features of online signatures [ieee.org]

        Vielhauer, C. Steinmetz, R. Mayerhofer, A.

        Abstract: Presents an approach to generating biometric hash values based on statistical features in online signature signals. Whilst the output of typical online signature verification systems are threshold-based true-false decisions, based on a comparison between test sample signals and sets of reference signals, our system responds to a signature input with a biometric hash vector, which is calculated based on an individual interval matrix. Especially for applications, which require key management strategies, hash values are of great interest, as keys can be derived directly from the hash value, whereas a verification decision can only grant or refuse access to a stored key. Further, our approach does not require storage of templates for reference signatures, thus increases the security of the system. In our prototype implementation, the generated biometric hash values are calculated on a pen-based PDA and used for key generation for a future secure data communication between a PDA and a server by encryption. First tests show that the system is actuality able to generate stable biometric hash values of the users and although the system was exposed to skilled forgeries, no test person was able to reproduce another subject's hash vector.
    • "the scary thing about someone being able to get an electronic copy of the data is the ability to make a replica."

      Nah. They'd probably just rip your eyeballs out.

    • The biometric data's on the card to prove that the card is genuine.
      For obvious reasons you already have your retina and fingers with you at all times. An ID card is simply a cheap and convenient mechanism for mapping you to a database record somewhere (possibly cached on the card itself). If retinal or fingerprint scanners were cheap enough there would be no need for the card. But you'd still need the database and you'd still need to be in it.
      But what should go in the database?

    • Re:Can this data be one-way hashed instead of stor (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mikerich ( 120257 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @06:13PM (#12218112)
      The UK plan [homeoffice.gov.uk] (currently on hold whilst Blair is being re-elected) would be very similar to the French scheme.

      The whole scheme is very secretive, but from what we know, all citizens will have to take about 50 pieces of personal data, their eyeballs and £80 to a registration centre for the dubious pleasure of being entered into a national database. Their fingerprints and iris patterns will be digitised and a hash generated from each. The hash is then written to the chip on the card. the idea of the government is that soon Britain will have tens of thousands of biometric readers at paces like airports, police stations, hospitals and doctors. Whenever you need a service, enter or leave the country or get arrested you'd have to produce the card.

      It won't be compulsory (at first) to carry a card, but it will be compulsory to register and keep your personal data up-to-date. The card is not yours, instead it remains the property of the government and can be withdrawn at any time on the say-so of the Home Secretary.

      Last year the government conducted a trial of 10,000 people and promised to tell us the results before the ID card bill was brought before Parliament. Well they've had one go at getting the bill through but ran out of time before Parliament's dissolution - and we still haven't seen the results of the trials. Which is kind of suspicious - surely if everything is hunky dory then they would have been shouting it from the rooftops?

      As for reliability, the Home Office (think Ministry of the Interior) doesn't seem to know the difference between false positive matches between two biometrics (where one person is mistaken for another) and false negatives (where a person isn't recognised at all). In written answers they only ever cite a failure rate based on the very low false positives - NEVER the much higher failure rate for false negatives. BUT positive confirmation of identity is the entire reason for their introduction.

      The general feeling of IT experts is that the scheme will rocket in price and never work properly - but that millions of people will be inconvenienced and perhaps thousands have their lives ruined by the cards.

      So for those UK people reading (hello!) - Labour is the only party promising to introduce ID cards. The Tories made no mention of it in their manifesto and have gradually gone off of the scheme. The LibDems, Greens and nationalist parties are all opposed. If you don't want ID cards, then the nice people at No2ID [no2id.org.uk] will be able to help.

    • Most systems are implemented such that the chip doesn't contain an image of the fingerprint. Instead it has a template of your fingerprint that is generated during enrollment. This template doesn't contain all the information needed to recreate an image of your fingerprint, though some work has been done showing that some aspects of the fingerprint can be generated. These generated prints can be used to match but do look like a fingerprint to you or me. Also, some cards do an on-card match, which means

  • The REAL story: (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "My name is George W Bush, my voice is my passport. Please verify me."
    • Mon nom est George W Bush, ma voix est mon passeport. Veuillez me vérifier.

  • "require the citizens to pay...." (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Um..... I hate to point it out to you, but if the government gave those cards out "free" the people would be PAYING for them in taxes.

    Aint nothing from the government that doesnt come out of someones pocket, except hot air.

  • What perfect idiots (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:02PM (#12217329)
    Forgive me if I am missing the point, but is not the purpouse of biometrics to REMOVE potentially compromised security keys, like ID cards? Biometrics, as I understand the science, allows an individual to use their body as a form of ID. Trust beaurrocrats to get the complete wrong idea about technologies.

    • Re:What perfect idiots (Score:3, Informative)

      by JimBobJoe ( 2758 )
      Forgive me if I am missing the point, but is not the purpouse of biometrics to REMOVE potentially compromised security keys, like ID cards? Biometrics, as I understand the science, allows an individual to use their body as a form of ID.

      No! No security expert worth their salt proposes that biometrics be used to ID...it's too easy to fake and you leave biometric trails everywhere. Biometrics may have some use as a second form of a password. Biometrics may also be used as ID in non-security applications (suc

    • Re:What perfect idiots (not insightful) (Score:5, Informative)

      by acaspis ( 799831 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @06:04PM (#12218026)
      Well you are definitely missing the point.

      The ID card would probably contain fingerprint data and a digital signature saying that the government recognizes the fingerprint as that of one of its citizens. The fingerprint doesn't even need to be connected to the person's identity.

      Without that, how could scanners at airports and other public locations decide to accept or reject a person based on her fingerprint ? Send it to a big-brother-esque central database, uh ? OK, the scanner still needs to download a list of revocated IDs from time to time.

      ID + fingerprint = something you have + something you are.

  • Making people extremists... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vidarlo ( 134906 ) <vidarlo@bitsex.net> on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:02PM (#12217330) Homepage

    I don't believe such strategies help. Using extreme means to eradicate extremism, spawns extremism. When people are humiliated, they tend to react. I'm not saying that the average citizen will feal humiliated, but a few will take it as a sign of a corrupt and bad government. Freedom can't be guarded with a gun! Freedom can only be guarded by true freedom, where the people has seen the freedom, and wants it. And is ready to defend it. Not with guns, but with pacifistic methods, like Mahatma Gandhi [wikipedia.org] did. He was inferior to the british commonwealth, yet he managed to free his people from slavery. This is the opposite. The trend now is to use violence for everything.

    Ah, I'll be modded down for that one, but it is a important point I think!

    • Re:Making people extremists... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by El ( 94934 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:09PM (#12217402)
      Pacifism only works against an oppressor that has a conscience. Do you really think non-violent resistance would have prevented nazi exterminations? (Actually, it did at one point, where good Aryan women were protesting the arrests of their Jewish husbands, but that's a different story. In general, it wouldn't help.)


      Other than that, I agree - extremism breeds extremism, and violence should only be used as a very last resort. However, one negotiates from a position of weakness if one refuses to use even the treat of violence as a bargaining tactic.

      • Do you really think non-violent resistance would have prevented nazi exterminations?

        Don't like to get into this Nazi discussion, but to answer your question: YES.

        As a Dutchman, I read a while ago that most jews deported from the Netherlands during WWII, weren't caught on the streets by German soldiers, but snitched on/given away by fellow countrymen. It wasn't Germans that found them, but Dutch people themselves that destroyed the lives of their (jewish) neighbours, in exchange for rewards, immunity, s

        • "...And speaking of the man, I fear the results of Mr. Bush's actions more than this terrorist turning up at my doorstep. Mr. Laden, if you're reading this: I don't like you either, but you're welcome at my place for a coffee and exchange of thoughts. Mr. Bush, if you're reading this, you're welcome here for a good kick in your b*tt..."

          Aaaandd that's where you revealed yourself as a stark raving loonie. Coffee and an exchange of thoughts?? You live in the Netherlands! You know, that laid-back country wit

          • Ask Van Gogh how his "exchange of thoughts" went with people who belived in the same type of extremism as Bin Laden does.

            Assuming you refer to the murder of Dutch filmmaker/publicist Theo van Gogh: I can remember a pre-9/11 era where mr.van Gogh wasn't very loved by many either, but 'tolerated'.

            Then, 9/11 came. I remember seeing the images on CNN, with people amazed that some terrorists were willing to steer full passenger planes into scyscrapers. My thoughts were something like: "whatever happens next,

        • but Dutch people themselves that destroyed the lives of their (jewish) neighbours, in exchange for rewards, immunity, some favours, whatever

          But if those Dutch people had refused to turn in their Jewish neighbors for cash, how would that have prevented German troops from physically occupying France, marching into Scandinavia, or using force to procure themselves new shipping ports, mines, and other things they wanted? Killing Jews wasn't the only thing on their plate.

          but have US actions made the world
      • Pacifism also works when there is courage and determination by a majority of the people to carry the pacifism through to the end. In the case of Ghandi, the resistance overcame the massacres of thousands of non-violent-resisters. The massacre was conducted by the British empire which had far from a conscience (also used poisonous gas in Egypt under Winston Churchill). After the massacre, the resistance gained strength and the Brits realized that there were only two solutions: Pull out of India, or kill ev
      • " Pacifism only works against an oppressor that has a conscience."

        I am sorry but thats, quite frankly, bullshit. Pacifism (or non-violent protest - they are different, but you seem to see them as the same) works not because of the oppressor's conscience (which almost always is absent), but because of the conscience of his/her peers, which can lead to quite a bit of trouble, especially if you are a government. A great example are both India and South Africa. Do you really believe that after 200 years of op

  • Papers, Papers please (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrugCheese ( 266151 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:03PM (#12217336)
    Walking down the street to get me some gum, show the doorman my credentials so I can leave my own building. Show the officer on the street corner my papers so that I can continue walking down the street. Pause at the front entrance of the store to flash some ID. Show my valid cards at the counter when I buy some gum. Walk again past the officer who again asked for my papers. Show my credentials to the doorman who lets me back inside my apartment.

    I'll need to hire someone to stand outside my apartment to check my ID to be completely safe from bad guys.

    Wait the bad guys have computers too?!? Then it's all for naught

  • Explain the problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:07PM (#12217388)

    We already have biometric data on our passports. It's called a photograph.

    Can somebody explain to me:

    1. Why extra biometric data is necessary, and
    2. Why so many people think extra biometric data is more abusive than the current biometric data stored on passports?

    A lot of the identity card/biometrics scare I hear seems nothing more than fear of the unfamiliar versus technology for technology's sake. This just seems like more of the same.

  • ...imagine an unwashed, French slipper on a human face -- for ever.

  • Many French support these cards because... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SuperMario666 ( 588666 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:13PM (#12217462)
    ...it will make it easier to detain and deport illegal Muslim immigrants from the Maghreb. Seems like a pretty crappy reason to implement a national biometric card system if its going to be used to harass minorities.

    • Re:Many French support these cards because... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Stop Error ( 823742 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:36PM (#12217693) Homepage
      Interesting how you phrase deporting criminals (they are ILLEGAL aliens) with, "harass minorities".
      • I strongly object against calling people without valid papers criminals. They haven't done anything to harm you or anyone else.

        In all probability the western society has a large part in keeping the countries poor as well, yet when these people knock on the door for (economic) support they are called and treated as being criminals by utter bastards like you.

        You can't let everyone share our well earned riches (*kuch*), so you might want to try to keep a large proportion out for economic reasions, but just d

    • Re:Many French support these cards because... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by totatis ( 734475 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:44PM (#12217810)
      deport illegal Muslim immigrants from the Maghreb
      if its going to be used to harass minorities.

      Make your mind buddy, if it's used to deport illegal immigrants, it's not for harassing minorities that are legally in France. Sure racisme has increased over the years here, but I fail to hear other French agreeing to this new ID card, and I even more fail to hear them thinking it's good for harassing Arabs.
      I think it's more a new way to take our money, since many people (myself included) tend to not renew any ID card or passport, since driver licence is enough and doesn't need to be renewed.
      We have one of the most bloated and inefficient bureaucracy in Europe, and they tend to always look for new ways to get even bigger.

      I really don't think racism has anything to do with that, just plain old stupid bureaucracy wanting to be even bigger, even stupidier, and even more efficient. Just like it always has.

      And it has the added bonus of justifying recent government employes wages increase.

      To quote Clemenceau : "In France we plant taxes and we grow fonctionnaires (state employes)".
  • to their new Biometric Identity card overlords

  • ID Required in France (Score:5, Informative)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) * on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:15PM (#12217476) Homepage
    Citizens haven't been forced to carry ID cards since 1955

    This is misleading. While there is no "National ID Card", You're required by law to carry ID at all times in France, and the police may ask to see it at their discretion.

    A less confusing way of putting it would have been, "While a national ID card hasn't existed in France since 1955, French people are required carry some form of valid ID with them."

    • You could consider this:

      You are required to have valid ID (like EU passport) on you as an EU citizen while you are inside the EU.

      You are not required to have or show any passport when passing internal EU country borders.

      I have never heard of any EU citizen that's been asked by the police to show ID (passport).

      Basically the ID requirement is part of the Schengen agreement (passport-less travel) which declares open internal borders, but requires identification so that when you do a felony and are picked u
      • Wikipedia link:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Treaty
      • I work as a police officer in a Schengen country and spent last year working at an international airport where I did boarder control. When traveling between two Schengen countries you are required to have a valid travel ID with you. In most cases this is a passport since only a few countries have other travel ID's. People, including EU citizens, are stopped at random for an ID check at Schengen boarders. Now im working in a small town and just last weekend I asked a EU-citizen to show me his travel ID so i
        • You may be required to have the ID with you, but I have never been asked to show it on either outbound or inbound airport.

          Just showing the ticket (or even just putting the ticket in the automatic check-in machine, not even talking to a human being) has been enough to get a boarding pass and that's it. But then I am neither dark skinned or wearing a head scarf (concerning the random check), not that the automatic machine knows that.

          I believe the passport had to be shown once, when passing into one of the n
    • Wrong, there is a nationnal ID card in France, established by Marechal Petain during WWII. I'm living in Japan but i'm still always carrying it. Since by the european laws, as a French citizens i'm not supposed to be obliged to show a passport to enter back in my country.
      • Right you are--my clarification was a lousy one. I had meant to say that there was no mandatory national ID card like the one being proposed; rather that you're required to carry ID at all times, but that you may carry a form of ID other than the national ID card.

    • Parent is WRONG ! (Score:3, Informative)

      by lazy_arabica ( 750133 )
      "While a national ID card hasn't existed in France since 1955, French people are required carry some form of valid ID with them."
      A national ID card does exist in France. It's true that you are not be required to carry that card at all times, though. Here is an example of what it looks like:
    • You're required by law to carry ID at all times in France, and the police may ask to see it at their discretion.

      No. The police needs authorization from a judge. It's not a case by case authorization though. A judge might state, for example, that IDs can be checked at a particular time, in a particular neighborhood on people that look suspicious. While it's true that the police sometimes uses ID checking as a means of pressure on people in the street that are identified as potential troublemaker, the

  • expectations for reaction... (Score:4, Informative)

    by JimBobJoe ( 2758 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:16PM (#12217488)
    I'm hoping (and frankly, expecting) some pretty strong negative reaction from the French citizenry. They have a bad history with ID cards (for reasons I shall respectfully not mention) and I dare say that the French are more alarmed by ID cards than citizens in anglo countries. They have a more intense concept of anonymity vis a vis the state.

    Even here in North America, New Brunswick and Quebec have some of the most lenient driver's licensing laws. Unless things have changed, neither province requires the photo on the license, and Quebec is the only jurisdiction in, possibly the world, which issues a driver's license with a digital photograph and the photograph is not archived. That's a level of freedom that's been lost to most of the world's citizens in just 10-15 years.
    • "I'm hoping (and frankly, expecting) some pretty strong negative reaction from the French citizenry. They have a bad history with ID cards (for reasons I shall respectfully not mention) and I dare say that the French are more alarmed by ID cards than citizens in anglo countries. They have a more intense concept of anonymity vis a vis the state."

      Not the case, at all. Completely the reverse in fact. It's common law countries like the UK where ID cards are controversial.

      The French already have an ID card. It

  • It could be worse (Score:5, Informative)

    by Catullus ( 30857 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:35PM (#12217665) Journal
    In the UK, it appears that, having had the government's draconian ID card [no2id.net] plans rejected (for the time being), they're planning to start the biometric-isation process early, by adding compulsory fingerprints to our passports. However, it also appears that this doesn't need democratic consent [theregister.co.uk] - they can just do it whenever they feel like. Oh, and bury it halfway through a busy election campaign too.

    These fingerprints will, you guessed it, be stored on a gigantic database that the police can consult whenever they feel like [guardian.co.uk].

    May I suggest that anyone in the UK who finds these plans... disturbing... lets someone know about it [faxyourmp.com].
  • Every major french citizen (i'm one i should know) is forced to carry an ID card since the Vichy regim during the second world war.
    And when a cop ask you for it, you have to show it or be arrested.

    In fact like in any "latin law" country this law is not really enforced but is here for the convenience of the cops.
    I don't know any french against this state of fact.
    It's true it can be abused by racist cops on minorities, but which law could'nt be abused by the authorities.
    Choose good authorities, or no at all

  • Subsidizes French Industry (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mpapet ( 761907 ) on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:55PM (#12217919) Homepage
    I would hazzard a guess and say that one reason they are doing this is to subsidize french IT.

    -The French got behind smart cards from their inception.
    -Sagem is one of the leaders in AFIS. (automatic fingerprint identification system) They provide a whole lot of biometric hardware and software technology to countries that can afford to install it.

  • Our version is the Real ID Act of 2005 in the USA (Score:3, Informative)

    by COredneck ( 598733 ) * on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @05:57PM (#12217956)
    To be decided in the Senate and the House/Senate Conference Committee is the Real ID Act of 2005 sponsored by F. James Sensenbrenner. This will be a backdoor defacto National ID through your driver's license. Included is a linked database known as the Driver License Agreement [tinyurl.com] as sponsored by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators [aamva.org]. States will be required to sign it in order for given state driver's license to accepted when dealing with the Federal Gov't such as boarding an airplane or train.

    Included in the Driver License Agreement is sharing information not only within the US but with Canada and Mexico (pg 4, item 11 in PDF Document). Required in the database is identity theft type of information such as your Social Security number. Also the Driver License Agreement as a side "benefit" requires your state to punish you with points for a traffic offense anywhere within North America. So a speeding ticket from a vacation in Cancun, Mexico or Montreal, Quebec, Canada will tarnish your home state driving record and as an insult to injury, your insurance goes up !

    There is not much time left to defeat this legislation. It is attached to HR1268 - Emergency Appropriations for Iraq, Tsunami Relief. The Senate has removed it but the House will insist on the Real ID Act of 2005 in conference committee and we need to let our Senator's know that we are against this. Information to Contact Congress [visi.com] web link.

    • Fortunately Montana is trying (last I heard it passed the house, but was still working through the senate) to stop this, by making it illegal to place this information on their drivers licenses. Unfortunately Montana doesn't have the population to make everyone care when their people can't fly or take a train anywhere.

      I wish my state would do this.

  • Cool! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dvdave ( 175509 )
    Now if anyone tries to require such a card in the US we can simply accuse them of being France-like and it'll never get approved. I knew 'freedom fries' would come in handy one day.

  • Liberté, égalité, fraternité, ou la mort!

    Rings a bell?
  • You call pictures and fingerprints biometric?

    Please, I got my voter's credential here. It's got my picture and my fingerprints. Does it make it "biometric"?
  • Here at Brasil we have lots of documents, each one with "unique" numbers to identify them...

    The problem is that experience has proved that none of this numbers are really unique, one can claim that lost his old document and get a new one with a different ID. So the governament is still trying to figure out some way to create a unified way to identificate the citzens.

    This is not as bad as it sounds, a unified database is the holy grail of our public healthcare system (yeah, we have one). This way the Hospi

  • The war on terror, an EU update (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, 2005 @07:12PM (#12218669)

    This has to be the worst dupe ever. How often has slashdot covered this?

    The *entire European union* will require biometrics [edri.org] stored in contactless chips (RFID) in a passport. The EU didn`t think of this all by itself, the US forced it. If the EU doesn`t go along fast with this billion dollar hype it`s citizens will have to get a visa to visit the US. (How are US plans for this coming along?)

    The biometrics are two fingerprints and a digital portrait. The last one will be to low resolution for camera surveilance but ofcourse this wont stop people from trying. Face it(no phun), the words "false positive" sound complicated and no politician is going to bother to look like caring about these words. Ofcourse you can translate them to "huge lines at the airport", "tens of innocent people questioned on ever major airport every day" (So mister Bin Laden, how did you turn into an asian twelve year old?).

    Want to hear some of the argumentation behind this? Yes you do! Implementing passports with biometric identifiers will be a great business opertunity [statewatch.org], especially for the business that get to build the hardware for this stuff... Boy do I wish I was making this up.

    Of course the people who sell biometrics are alway happy to tell how many people on this planet have the same fingerprint and face. wanna guess? Its always a very low number, like zero. In fact they keep saying this over and over. They never have any time left to mention that:
    a. biometric comparisons always allows for lots of differences because no one want`s to hold up a line at the airport because of a mismatch due to some sweat.... every time someone sweats one these occasions.
    b. cheap fingerprint scanners are fooled by gummy bear taste gelatine prints, pressing bags of water on the scanner.... or just blowing on it. Can you blame these vendors for not mentioning this? Maybe not, they are afterall, very busy in this "post 911 world". Or so they keep saying.

    Ofcourse it doesn`t stop here. Other bright ideas going on the the EU:

    • Giving US three leter ancronym agencies read access to all airline booking systems. If airlines refused they couldn`t land in the US, now they comply they might be send back midair from time to time. [google.nl] But hey, what are the chances of someone matching a name on a list of 70,000 names? (If you think this list sounds to short, don`t worry adding names is easy, no evidence of anything is required)
    • Storing traffic data [epic.org] for every telephone or Internet connection in the EU... Depending on the phase of the moon this data consists of telephone call data, GSM location data and ofcourse URL`s of every site visited and headers for send and/or received mail. Yes I mean storing everything about the communication of everyone....
    Apparently the words terabyte`s/day, gigabyte`s/sec and innocent until proven guilty have to be reinvented.

    Meanwhile Italy, Germany and Sweden are investigating [washingtonpost.com] what heaponed to a some of their citizens. They where kidnapped by the CIA and sent to places that make abu graib look like the holiday in... Ofcourse these investigations arent about getting justice for these people, they are just about making things difficult for the national goverment for allowing these kidnap operations.

    Anyway, it seamed like the right time for an European update on these things.

  • Reminds me of that prefect from Les Miserables (by Victor Hugo) who wanted to make a census of a small town and find out where each person came from, what their past history was, etc. The main character, the mayor of this town, tried to talk that dude out of it.
  • "Let them eat snake"

    Cheers
    Stor
  • I always thought that good security, at least in terms of authentication, was based on something you have, and something you know. I have always taken the "something you have part" to be a soemthing independantly verifiable.

    With biometric information on an ID, I have always taken that to mean that something can read the information uses it to verify me. I don't find that so secure, like a signature on the back of a credit card, it only verifies that I am telling you what I am telling you.

    Someone could,

  • To all Americans (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SlashDread ( 38969 ) on Wednesday April 13, 2005 @02:53AM (#12221306)
    You all DO realize, the EU members are doing this because YOU MADE US do this?

    Frigging hell, -my- governement (Dutch) has now mandatory ID, biometrics is planned for the next Passport version.

    It is all done in name of "traveling to the US otherwise requires VISA and thats a bummer" and "Terrorism, you know", but in the meantimne it has been used against me for having my dog walk on grass without a leach, and to snap me up crossing the border INTO The Netherlands for a passport check, we supposedly do not have (Schengen Accord).

    We increasingly live in a very controlled state.

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