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The Internet Your Rights Online

Australian P2P Sites Disappear Overnight 355

Posted by samzenpus from the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't dept.
An anonymous reader writes "In the wake of a raid on an Australian ISP, local P2P site operators are shutting down operations in droves, according to community site Whirlpool. The raid was the result of an investigation by Music Industry Piracy Investigations (MIPI), who claim they have a number of targets lined up for future raids. Overnight, a number of sites have shut down or been shut down, and ISPs are reporting major drops in bandwidth usage."
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Australian P2P Sites Disappear Overnight More

Australian P2P Sites Disappear Overnight

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  • Dang It! (Score:5, Funny)

    by vjmurphy ( 190266 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:03AM (#11963970) Homepage
    I was nearly finished downloading the complete works of Olivia Newton John and that new Men at Work greatest hits reissue. Now where will I turn to for my Australian pop song downloads?

    • Re:Dang It! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by smudge8 ( 812705 ) <smudge8@NosPaM.gmail.com> on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:10AM (#11964017) Journal
      I live in Australia, and I woke up this morning to find that my connection speed was shocking. About 1000ms ping to local sites. Roughly 1 out of 2 packets dropping.

      Amazingly enough, I quit aMule and everything came good again instantly. Equally amazingly enough, all the downloads which I had queued and were going fine last night had disappeared.

      I don't actually think it's really linked (especially since we're not exactly talking about emule networks, are we?), but it's certainly odd.

  • Next: Legal Defense Fund (Score:4, Funny)

    by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:05AM (#11963977)
    Not everyone is rolling over to MIPI, however. The administrator of one site has vowed to seek legal advice as a result of MIPI's enquiries into the legality of his operations.

    I think I know the drill here. Set up a legal defense fund, collect tens of thousands of dollars and then disappear. [slashdot.org]
    • Here's the MPAA press release [mpaa.org] that proves that the scam story was never true to begin with.

    • Re:Next: Legal Defense Fund (Score:5, Informative)

      by northcat ( 827059 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:34AM (#11964156) Journal
      If you had even bothered to read a few comments on that story, you would have known that lokitorrent did not indeed disappear and MPAA did in fact go against lokitorrent.
      • The MPAA issued a press release saying they went after Lokitorrent. How does that mean that Lokitorrent didn't disappear?

        I was as big a fan of Lokitorrent and BitTorrent in general as anyone, but collecting tens of thousands of dollars as a legal defense fund and then mysteriously "settling" and effectively disappearing after the fact does not sit well with me. What were the terms of the settlement? Did Lokitorrent have to turn over all the money they collected from their legal defense fund? I find th

  • Anti-piracy may hurt ISP business? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DeepDarkSky ( 111382 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:05AM (#11963979)
    Well, if they shut down the P2P sites which were demanding most of the bandwidth requirements of the ISP, then it eliminates the need for broadband for a lot of people (at least for the time being). If people don't need broadband anymore, wouldn't ISPs lose broadband business? Are the anti-piracy groups willing to pay the ISPs for their "losses"?

    • Re:Anti-piracy may hurt ISP business? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by IEEEMonkey ( 669772 ) <Paul.HerbstrittNO@SPAMGMail.Com> on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:11AM (#11964022)
      See post above about p0rn. There is no way that people who have had an opportunity to use the boardband providers could possibly go back to dial-up or anything else for that matter. Bandwidth is a drug and we are all addicted to speed. Besides, it might just push folks to look to legal sites to get their music and movies, you just never know.
      • With the exception of work connectivity (and I think those of us in tech need more bandwidth than others), video, music, software access are the chief benefits of broadband.
        Admittedly not all of it is illegal (i.e. iTunes) but the media companies so far haven't done a great job of leveraging broadband for legitimate services.
    • How many large p2p sites do you know of in Australia? Bugger all at last count. This just means that all the leachers will go overseas for their files. In addition, the cost of bandwidth for seeders and their ilk over here is prohibitive. I think you'll find that this wont have that much of an effect on ISPs.
      • How many large p2p sites do you know of in Australia?... all the leachers will go overseas

        According to TFA, most of the P2P networks were using uncapped bandwidth, between users on the same ISP, or same state. Downloading from overseas is going to burn their caps pretty quickly. Or maybe people will revert to sneakernet and have CDR swapmeets.

    • Re:Anti-piracy may hurt ISP business? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jmcmunn ( 307798 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:15AM (#11964057)

      I would say you're completely backwards here. Most users discover the ability to pirate large movies/music/files AFTER they get broadband. They don't usually buy broadband just to start pirating, it's just a side effect. So based on that theory, they will still keep their broadband to surf the web or whatever their original intent was. Perhaps the ISP's will be able to increase each user's "available" bandwidth if the select few stop sucking it all up with PSP crap?

      I for one, have vowed never to give up my high speed internet ever since the first day I had it 6 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then, but it sure hasn't gotten easier to surf the web on a dial up connection. There are so many pointless graphics on most sites these days, that a dial up connection is becoming useless.
    • ISPs are reporting major drops in bandwidth usage

      Other losers in the fallout:

      1. Hard drive manufacturers
      2. DVD burner manufacturers
      3. And, finally (surprise) - Microsoft, Symantec, etc - as people who no longer see a "need" to be on the internet all the time have less need to be forcefed hardware and software upgrades, newer computers, and security products.
    • I'll add a little more to this:
      ISPs may look at P2P traffic the same way some people looked at smoking at one point.

      Somewhere in the world, governments still look at smoking and tobacco sale as a good revenue source, and so they are willing to "sacrifice" the people's health, or put differently, "mortgage" the people's future health costs to get cash upfront. Eventually, as we get more serious about public health and the danger of tobacco use is just so blatantly obvious and the health insurance industry
    • It's the opposite. ISPs will incur less costs if the bandwidth usage is less (I believe most Australian ISPs don't charge based on data usage or based on time). Once people get broadband they will never go back.
      • It's the opposite. ISPs will incur less costs if the bandwidth usage is less (I believe most Australian ISPs don't charge based on data usage or based on time). Once people get broadband they will never go back.

        Oops, forgot to add another point. If people can afford broadband then they'll definitely switch. Especially the kind of people who would download warez/movies (I'm implying that people who download warez/movies also use the Internet a lot for other purposes and hence they would prefer speed.)
      • It's the opposite. ISPs will incur less costs if the bandwidth usage is less

        Unless you have some sort of Aussie-Comcast. Then you'll get "special super stupid cool improved rates" where you can upgrade to 1 Mbps for an extra $10 per month or downgrade your email storage capacity to keep your current rate. (Which is what Flet's ADSL recently did to me here in Japan)
    • Increased speed and download quota are not the only reasons people get broadband in Australia. One major benefit of ADSL/cable is the "always-on" nature of the connection, so there's no need dial-up. Apart from the annoyance of having to dial-up and repeatedly reconnect (many dial-up accounts have a automatic "kick-off" after X number of hours online), it's a significant cost issue since phone plans here don't typically offer "unlimited" local calls. Another is the fact that it doesn't tie up the phone line

  • But after the raid? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bird603568 ( 808629 )
    They will probally open back up. Its like a dealer the cops are comming so they swollow it and sell it later.

  • We shall go on to the end, (Score:5, Funny)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:08AM (#11963998) Journal
    ..we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the web and P2P, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the wireless networks, we shall defend our warez, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight in the bedrooms, we shall fight on the internet cafes, we shall fight in the universities and in the schools, we shall fight in the ISPs; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this filesharing or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our warez beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the Chinese hackers, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World.mp3, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the RIAA.

  • Won't stop anything (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:09AM (#11964001)
    Fact: There's money to be made in P2P networks
    Fact: If it's not legal in X it's legal in Y
    Fact: If company is hassled in X, it goes to Y

    You cannot stop P2P, you can only hassle it in the short term.
    • I don't believe that they are hassling P2P. just hassling free music servers. ...not that I'm taking an opinion.

    • You cannot stop P2P

      Looking at the most recent tactics of the RIAA/MPAA and their pals around the world, I would say that they are no longer targetting P2P directly anyway, or the companies that develop/host the P2P applications. They are now going after P2P users who upload materials owned by them. Uploading such material is illegal in most countries, and most P2P clients will upload as well as download (that's the whole point of them). Witness the recent flurry of cease-and-desist letters sent to user

    • ...when I see that six of the "Top Downloads" on Sourceforge's front page [sourceforge.net] are P2P clients.

      I think the RIAA, MIAA and friends are fighting a battle that they'll inevitably lose, no matter how expertly they play the governmental and legal systems.

      King Canute didn't have much luck either.

  • Draconian business practices (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm appalled that the MAPI chose to take this action, but even more shocking is that the provincial government of the Republic of Australia, is willing to play the role of jack-booted enforcers.

    Before you know it, other Australian territories like Fiji or New Zealand will be cracking down on P3P sites. I will no longer do business with Australian web sites.

    At least there is hope in that the House of Commons in Melbourne is debating applying the CD levy towards the MAPI demands.

    Which is nice.
    • New Zealand and Fiji are *not* Australian territories! - A proud kiwi!

    • Australia not a Republic (Score:5, Informative)

      by pingofdeath ( 741576 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @03:37PM (#11968920)
      Being an Australian I noticed several big mis-truths in your post.

      1) Australia is NOT a republic. We are a constitutional monarchy. With the exception of people in the retired services league and the governor general (the Queens figure-head in Australia) this doesn't mean much. The only thing that would change if we did become a Republic would be the stripping of the Union Jack from our flag.

      2) Fiji and New Zealand are NOT Australian territories. While we may claim many famous Kiwi's (New Zealanders) to be Australian (Russel Crowe, Mel Gibson), they are a completely independent country.

      3) House of Commons??? There is no House of Commons, in Melbourne, or in the whole of Australia. You are thinking of the British system. While we are a monarchy we do not have the same system as them such has the House of Lords, House of Commons, etc.

      4) What has cracking down on warez sites got to do with you doing business with Australian websites? Before you try to say these sites had legitimate downloads, they didn't. The vast majority of what was available was copyrighted material.

      5) MAPI is not the acronym of Music Industry Piracy Investigations, that would be MIPI as stated several times in the article.

      6) P3P?!?! WTF is P3P?

      7) Why is a CD levy a good idea? How would you like a levy on screwdrivers and crowbars because a small minority of people use them to break into houses? Or a levy on tea spoons because junkies use them to cook up? The idea of CD levies is ridiculous!

      How the hell did you get Score 1???

  • Free the bandwidth! (Score:5, Funny)

    by datafr0g ( 831498 ) <[datafrog] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:13AM (#11964036) Homepage
    Free the bandwidth from these Dr Who leak downloading bandwidth wasters and speed up my number of Slashdot homepage refreshes per second, while I wait for the next story to be posted!
  • ISPs are reporting major drops in bandwidth usage.

    And couldn't we expect the ISPs, especially some of the state owned(?) ones to start pushing against a crackdown when they start losing money? dDOS excluded, more traffic == more business for an ISP.
    • Of course, the high traffic users also offer the least profit.

      The most profitable users of broadband are not the ones constantly downloading music online 24/7.

      This may not be so bad for the ISPs.

    • Re:Yes but . . . . (Score:3, Insightful)

      by northcat ( 827059 )
      Why does everyone seem to think that?!? More traffic == more COSTS. People pay the same amount regardless of how much they use it, so the less they use, the better for ISPs. And how many people, do you think, are going to refrain themselves from getting broadband because the availability of warez has become less?
      • Actually, in australia, unlimited accounts are very thin on the ground (at least when I looked for the broadband account I am on)
        Most accounts are either limited bandwidth then pay extra or unlimited but you get shaped back to 64k or something after you use a certain amount.

  • Am I a pirate? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:18AM (#11964074)
    I use P2P, in the form of bitorrent, for one purpose...

    I have a very busy work schedule with a lot of travel. There are 2 or 3 broadcast TV shows that I like so I download episodes when I miss them. Is there any real difference between that and just programming my VCR to do the same?

    Frankly, if they make this impossible, it won't make me watch more TV. It will just mean I'll miss the episode(s) in question. With the exception of the times I am home for "my shows," I simply refuse to watch TV anymore due to the 15+ minutes of commercials to watch a one hour show. Hell, I don't even keep the file after I've watched it since I don't want to fill up the hard drive on my computer.

    So I'm not really sure what the broadcasters hope to gain, other than trying to protect their advertising revenue as they lose eyeballs to people who are tired of the noise level on broadcast TV.

    So I just hope they don't shut down my favorite tracker site and keep my fingers crossed.

    • If you skip commercials, most of the movie/tv show people already consider you a pirate.

      • If you skip commercials, most of the movie/tv show people already consider you a pirate.

        Maybe so, but where did they get my signature that I'd agree to watch their shows only along with all the crap around?

        Their wishful thinking doesn't make it reality.


      • Yeah... but if the networks made their shows available for download WITH commercials, guess where I'd be getting my shows from?

        Unfortunately for them, the only place I can get them (and I mean, The ONLY place, since I live outside of the US) provides them commercial free.

        I'm not complaining though. ;)

        Actually, considering the fact that I can't find any players/codecs combination that will allow me to actually fast forward easily and accurately through most of the video I download, if the networks releas
      • Yes, because none of them do that. And they all read every single ad in a newspaper before turning page, they stop in the subway to read each ad before jumping on the train (even if they miss 10 of them while reading the ads) and so on. Yup, seems likely...
      • If you simply leave the room during commercials, they consider you a pirate. Fuck them.
    • >Is there any real difference between that and just programming my VCR to do the same?

      programming the VCR and watching it later is 100% legit. no questions, no strings, no iffys. so why not use it?

      i think the real question is, what is the difference between programming the VCR and p2p/downloading for you?

    • I have a very busy work schedule with a lot of travel. There are 2 or 3 broadcast TV shows that I like so I download episodes when I miss them. Is there any real difference between that and just programming my VCR to do the same?

      Yes, with P2P, you have access to content that you didn't pay for. You have access to HBO/Showtime/Spice/etc. Not all things are broadcast in all areas. Sporting events get blacked out in areas. Local advertisers lose out when you download a show because you probably didn't do

      • That's not what he said (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Pac ( 9516 )
        First, he said he can (as in "is able to because either it is on network TV or he paid for the cable showing it") record the shows.

        Second, at least this way someone gains: if he does not watch the shows, the benefit for the station/provider/advertisers is zero. If he downloads a file made elsewhere, that station/provider/advertiser combo benefits. The mean effect of people who paid for the content downloading it instead of watching directly is probably nil.
      • When the cable industry started up in Canada, the cable companies slurped up US signals, and distributed them to Canadian cable subscribers.

        No, the US providers where not paid.

        Furthermore, US ads where replaced with local ads.

        Niiice.

        And now that industry has the HUTZPAH to complain that I download TV shows!?!

        And, its offtopic - and I don't anything about Aussie IP law, anyway.

        Ratboy
      • Sporting events get blacked out in areas.

        Blackouts exist because of clauses in the agreement between the league/team and the TV station/network. They do not exist because of any law or any agreement with the ultimate customer (the viewer). "Violating" a blackout, as a viewer, is completely legal. People who live in shared markets are frequently able to get around blackouts (i.e., people who live in areas that get signals from both the NY and Philly markets can watch the national NFC game on Fox 29 instead
      • What's with people who are fundamentally wrong today?

        Unless you download shows from the channels you don't have access to, come up with a good reason why it's illegal or immoral. I'm not the only one who pays good money for cable TV, and if I download a show I could have watched on the TV (sans commercials), it's content I have paid for in full, as far as I am concerned.

    • Re:Am I a pirate? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by knight37 ( 864173 )
      I simply refuse to watch TV anymore due to the 15+ minutes of commercials to watch a one hour show.

      So I'm not really sure what the broadcasters hope to gain, other than trying to protect their advertising revenue as they lose eyeballs to people who are tired of the noise level on broadcast TV.

      Look, advertisement is the current way these shows get paid for. If you're not watching the ads, you're not really a "customer" of the TV show producer anyway, so why should they care if you get to see their show
    • While i agree with you totally, and do that myself for shows i wasnt home for, or didnt happen to record that night, the 'industry' does not agree.

      Do the courts agree with us or the industry? That will be the real question.

  • a little misleading (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dirtydamo ( 160364 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:22AM (#11964095)
    As far as I know, all of the P2P networks which are being shut down are strictly local: they use IP filters to restrict to users within the same state (and on the same peering system) to take advantage of some ISP's free intra-state traffic.

    So this really has little effect except on the uber-leechers who are in any case breaking the law (this is of course a gross generalization, but one I am quite confident making).
  • This is why it's so much better to trade torrents on IRC. I use Russians (allofmp3.com, if you're interested), or the CD store, for my music, and IRC+BitTorrent for anything else I might need. I don't think they could shut down an entire network, and even if they did, all the operators of #insert-bt-channel-here would have to do is move a whole bunch of bots to a new place. It's interesting how older technology sometimes gets the job done better. BTW, does anyone know a good source of .torrents for musi

  • Wait until ISPs get accounts cancelled (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:57AM (#11964301) Homepage
    ISPs are reporting major drops in bandwidth usage.

    Wait until ISPs start getting accounts cancelled. It's simply not possible for people to receive less value from a service and be willing to pay the same price. The interests of ISPs and copyright holders are NOT aligned, and the ISPs that don't realize that they must oppose the copyright crackdown will go out of business.
    -russ
    • I don't think people will cancel their accounts but will instead opt for lower quota/speed plans to save some money. For gaming, downloading the usual patches, service packs, etc, broadband is still the only way to go. A 256K plan would be more than adequate for such purposes.

      P2P (I include NG's here, if not strictly p2p) has been one of the 'killer apps' that make broadband a commodity worth paying big bucks for. ISP's have known this and were quite happy to accept payment for users of their infrastructur
  • At least in the U.S., most ISPs provide virtually unlimited bandwidth to home users at a flat rate.

    It works very well for me, and I understand the other advantages, but if the home ISPs made money per Kb downloaded, they'd no doubt see file sharing as a good source of revenue and would find more ways to support it, technically and politically.

  • Now, usually I would have no problem with this.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gt_swagger ( 799065 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @09:31AM (#11964591) Homepage
    But seeing has how the RIAA and its many incarnations worldwide have been deaf [dum dum TISHHH] to the demands of those they depend on for SO LONG, I say pirate on my friend. It's quite simple really... the RIAA can quit living in the mid-to-late 20th century and get with the program, or alternatives will find their way into market and force the RIAA to change to survive. A brief rundown of the MANY shortcomings of the RIAA: - They DO NOT do justice to your average artist [Steve Albini, producer of Nirvana's "In Utero" album, explaining how the artist is screwed: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html [negativland.com] ] - Convicted of breaking federal anti-trust laws for price fixing et al multiple times - They keep pushing forward this one-hit-wonder crap assembly line style, making you pay the $12 (use to be $20 before anti-trust suit) for one or two songs. They don't want you to download online per-song [see the older Slashdot article about them wanting to raise the rate for an online download], because that threats this model of forcing you to pay for extra music that sucks. - They have NO concept of fair use. They've made it pretty evident they don't want you to rip your CDs into your own mix... or *gasp* put your mix on an mp3 player. How pirate of you. iTunes? Hope you don't like burning your mixes too often to change them around. We wouldn't you to get fair use of that piece of "intellectual property" you just PURCHASED THE RIGHTS TO now would we? For extra credit class, please view KoRn's music video "Ya'll Want A Single" --> it is bootlegged online in many places, and the video even requests you download it. "Film makers can offer their audience a choice of ways to see movies -- they can view them in the theater, rent them, or buy them. Music companies are much less flexible. It's hard to buy one song. You're forced to buy the CD." - Peter Chernin, CEO Fox Entertainment Group Quite frankly, the RIAA has shown it doesn't care if it craps on me, so I don't mind seeing everybody crap on them. Karma is a b**** aint it?

  • Time for a community response (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Progman3K ( 515744 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @10:07AM (#11964916)
    We have to collectively STOP buying music CDs.
    It hasn't been shown that downloading music hurts the music companies, quite the opposite HAS been shown in fact.

    So we have to send the industry a message by no longer buying their product.

    If they don't have our money to use against us like they are now, they won't be able to pull these kind of totalitarian abuses.

    OK, you argue it might force all the music companies out of business. So what? With the Internet, they are no longer necessary; artists can market their music to clients directly.

    And in any case, the music companies no longer represent us, they are forcing horrible formulaic content down our throats.

    Put an end to these abuses, boycott the music industry!

  • New revenue model for ISPs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by EmagGeek ( 574360 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @11:01AM (#11965421) Journal
    Well, now that ISPs are losing all of their customers that won't bother using P2P anymore, they'll have to get RedHat to increase the frequency of Fedora releases to make up for it.. if that's even possible :)

  • "major drops in bandwidth usage" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @11:22AM (#11965638) Homepage Journal
    If by chance the industries are ever successful in driving out the 'copyright infringing P2P networks', then they have just killed the consumer broadband market. ( and removed their source for free advertising in the process )

    If you have nothing to download, then why have broadband? So you can get faster popus?

  • Good for them... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PrimeWaveZ ( 513534 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @11:40AM (#11965813)
    I am all for the elimination of truly infringing content on the internet and punishing those who distribute it. I don't believe that all information should be free, though I disagree with the dumb tactics of the worldwide music industry groups and their ilk. Creators of intellectual property deserve to be paid for their work. And while there are substantial noninfringing uses of these networks, many sites are dedicated to promoting the distribution of infringing or substantial amounts of infringing content. And, generally, there are more reliable means of accessing legitimate content than through these networks (excluding BitTorrent)

    As for the decrease in bandwidth usage, I'm all for that if it is able to lower the cost of consumer broadband to a more reasonable level. The exessive use of broadband for questionably legal activity slows down networks for people who need to legitimately download their ISOs (or have their Windows boxen be spam zombies.) With the lower nominal use of networks, maybe prices will drop (as opposed to killing of the broadband market like one poster suggested.)

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