Canadian Government Weary of Patriot Act 1238
IllogicalStudent writes "An article on canoe discusses how the Canadian government is moving to counter worries surrounding Canadian citizens' privacy being compromised by the United States' Patriot act. Apparently the FBI currently has the right, through Patriot, to search documents which may contain Canadian information sent to US firms carrying out work under contract. Thankfully, privacy still means something up here."
Just goes to show (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just goes to show (Score:2, Insightful)
Canada, on the other hand, has every right to be concerned. Perhaps our "paranoia" will bring more attention to the issue in the us, helping our friends to the south out.
Allow me to clarfiy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:2, Funny)
http://shotgun.shacknet.nu:81/mapofnewamerica.gif
Tell me about it. (Score:4, Funny)
I didn't vote for you.
It was cool cause I didn't want to.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
Inaugurated, sat in the oval room.
Wasn't long before the dot-com boom.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
And all you'd ever hear me say
Is "Don't globalize our jobs!"
That's all you'd ever hear me say.
BUT SINCE U BEEN GONE....
We've got this insane cowboy.
I visit MoveOn-Dot-Com
After you - rednecks get - what they want
Since u been gone
How can I put it, I was afraid of you.
I even was afraid of Janet Reno.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
How come I never hear you say
"We'll have a smaller government"
I guess you never felt that way.
BUT SINCE U BEEN GONE....
Hi-Cap mags are back in our schools
Torture isn't wrong. Yeah, yeah.
After you - the whole world - hates our guts.
Since u been gone.
You had your chance, you blew it
Out of sight out of mind.
Shut your fly, I just can't take it
Again and again and again and again
SINCE U BEEN GONE.... (Since u been gone....)
Eternal war against terror.
Little Green Footballs is popular.
After you (After you)
Our dollar - took a plunge.
I'd vote for your wife if I could.
But not John Kerry, he's a douche bag.
After you (After you)
Now you know (you know)
You should know( you should know) Red China,
The Chinese own our ass.
Since u been gone
Since u been gone
Since u been gone
Big apologies to Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" [letssingit.com]
Re:Tell me about it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Shoot, I'm still afraid of Janet Reno.
Re:Tell me about it. (Score:3, Informative)
In the weeks after columbine, a Canadian tried to do copy-cat killing spree. But being Canadian, and apparently an idiot, he didn't have access to firearms, and he tried it with a knife. Result: 6 (IIRC) injured, including the idiot himself, no one killed. Why? Because it's a lot harder to kill someone with a knife than a g
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Funny)
On that note, I just want to mention that Canadians are rarely seriously offended by Americans. We just think they are good for humor value [comcast.net] if nothing else.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:5, Informative)
As a Canadian I need to clarify a couple of points:
1) Canada DOES NOT share a border with Russia, we only have a border with the USA.
2) Canada IS NOT the northern most country. That would be Greenland (Denmark).
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:5, Interesting)
No, we make fun of them as a means of highlighting your ignorance in hopes you will do something about it. That most Americans don't know jack about the rest of the world is news [counterpunch.org]. We don't make fun to feel smug and righteous. We make fun because we're concerned about your massive ignorance of worldly events and how it drives your politics. If you checked out the "Talking to Americans" website from the grandparent post, you'll see that most of it was talking to American politicians and some "influential" celebrities. These are the people that influence what Americans believe and are supposed to know about the world around them, and they clearly don't.
But yes, most Americans are good, hardworking, nice people. We aren't offened by them, though we perhaps respect them less since the last election. (OK, in 2000 you didn't know G. W. was a fuckup, but this time you should have.) We are, however, often offended by American politicians and media. Their deception, bias, illogical reasoning, and clear pandering towards good sound bites and entertainment over truth is quite obvious and offensive. But when you don't have real politicians and media who actually research and analyze things first, there's nothing to compare to and realize how stupid it looks.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Insightful)
Power is like that, you open yourself up to ridicule as a matter of fair play. You can't have your Twinkie and eat it too.
Why are a disproportionate number of top hollywood comedians canadian? It might have to do with national outlook.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Insightful)
Pray tell, in what country does the U.S. have a military base where the local government seeks the base removed.
Every time an American soldier rapes someone in Japan theres a pretty big push to kick the Americans out. Panama was a pretty risky occupation there for a while when the canal ownership transfer didn't look like it was going too smoothly.
Pray tell, oh enlightened one, about trade barriers.
Very well, lets talk about Iraq, and the oil embargo, and how the US ignores barriers whenever it feels like it [nwsource.com]. Or how America (and other countries, America isn't alone in this) backs such barriers only when it benefits corporations, not consumers or laborers.
God, please do do tell me just what those 8 million Iraqi's were doing last weekend
Wait, were we there for the election last week? Only months ago it seemed we were there to depose Saddam, and months before that to protect the United States from WMDs, and months before that to protect the United States from Al Quaeda terrorists, all the time using battle maps drawn up before 9/11 when the plan was to go to war for oil.
I'm glad Bush finally got his story in synch with reality. Those votes only cost us about $12 billion each... At that expense you'd think that we could spare the $200 to fly Iraqis in America to one of the 8 voting places [cnn.com] set aside for them. With the names of the campaigners not revealed until days before the election, and very few of those even campainging, confusion was rampant, and voters had no choice but to vote randomly. This is the democracy we died for? [independent.co.uk] At least women's rights [cnn.com] will be restored to pre-american-interference levels. Who knows, maybe in a decade or two being publically Christian will be non-fatal again.
Oh, and BTW, you people know very little about the Patriot Act
And what do YOU know about it, other than what you've read in the law itself and what little your government admitted to you?
But hey, cowards like you just like to spout off nonsense and run, thinking "gee I showed that guy" when all you really showed is that you can spout off a lot of stuff.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Insightful)
Start of Panama Canal Transfer problems [worldnetdaily.com]. End of the transfer problems when the US finally fulfills its treaty obligation 22 years late [tripod.com]. And since this is "news" to highschool history failures like you, the end of the US military occupation of Panama that went along with that transfer. [acus.org]
The people of Okinawa have protested several times since the end of the war, the largest such protest after a 12 year old girl was raped. The Japanese government usually ignores it, mostly because of American threats of economic ruin [japanupdate.com] in the event that the bases have to "suddenly go away".
I'm so sorry that I didn't spend the time to look up more cites for you to ignore last time, and I know you ignored them because you ignored my next cite:
IN-TER-NA-TION-AL community tried sanctions to affect change. I would think you would approve?
Hell yeah, I approved. Shame that both Clinton and Bush apparently didn't, since their administrations knew about the violations and did nothing about it. You'd know that if you had read the link I gave you. Or hell, if you had read your newspaper instead of using it to wipe your ass.
The Iraqi that voted did not come out of polling places raging against America or the election process. (For now we'll ignore the fact that two major political parties boycotted the election because of their belief that the US could not run a fair election)
Just wait until the US slaps them with the bill. How pissed off will they be then when America siphons off what little money they have over a $100billion bill? Until then, as one of the people who paid for this big experiment at the cost of $12(at least, since the initial 72% turnout estimate has already slipped to 60%... nobody really knows how many people showed up, and of those how many were turned away due to typical American election oopsies like lack of ballots)billion per vote, I have the right to be upset about how my money was spent.
for the first time is exercising his freedom
wrong, wrong, wrong. [regiments.org] Scroll down to the bottom, and note how this weekend was the first election in 50 years. Thats right, folks, Iraq used to have elections! They used to be a democracy!
is an aspiration with real meaning to a people who have suffered from decades of dictatorship.
Who needs dictatorship when we can suffer from your ignorance (and that of others like you). Tell you what, save up a few pennies every day and go buy yourself a nice set of Encyclopedias. Get the ones with the big colorful pictures, they're easier to read.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, I am happy. But you missed the point of that. You (assuming you're the same AC) said US occupation of Panama was "news", so I posted several links for you to peruse to show that its "old news". I'm glad you found credibility problems with one or two of my links, it means the time I spent looking for three was worthwhile.
And so what if Iraq had a democracy 50 years ago.
It makes your original statement about voting for t
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:3)
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:5, Insightful)
Ka-wow, did you really just write that? Many of us in other liberal democracies look at the American system of health care, poverty abatement, and prisons, and shudder. We see oppressive systems that are polluted with inequities and indignities, more so than our own considerable problems. We see the way the trade missions turn countries from an emphasis on self-reliance into exporters of commodity goods based on unequal trade--without mitigating corruption in any way. We see the constant global war, using a thin veil of cries of freedom to pave the way for further inequitable commercial opportunity.
Tell me more about how your concern for the oppressed has affected, for example, the status of women in Iraq? The status of children in Angola? Dissidents in your client countries? Saipan? A century of policy towards Haiti, Cuba, Puerto Rico? Guatemala? How about pollution from your over 700 international military bases? The list goes on ad infinitum. And AC's, do your research before a kneejerk rebuttal on this one, please.
We see you edging ever closer to a cynical theocracy. You have enough WMD to wipe anyone out, and a national sense of manifest destiny linked with a popular myth of imminent armageddon.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:3, Insightful)
You can't even see past your own government and media deception to even begin to understand what your country has done on your behalf.
You haven't made it better for the "opressed". Their lives are crappier now since their country is in full civil war
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:3, Insightful)
There may be death as an indirect result UN Embargoes, but unlike US military action, there wasn't an intent to do so. US Military actually went in and bombed the crap out of them. Don't tell me "collateral damage" is indirect. It's a
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:3)
Is this honestly how people "debate" in your country? I feel sorry for you.
But, a lot of us Americans are sick and fucking tired of seeing the lackadasical people of most of the world, let bullshit like what Saddam was getting away with, happen.
Horrible acts
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Interesting)
> Hitler, use persecution and targeted humour to
> manage the masses. Most Canadians are too stupid
> to realize this. CBC for example, oh they
> criticise government only to a point to get some
> perception they are worth the billions of
> government dollars but the reporting is biased.
Wow, compare a socialist government to Nazis, always a good way to indicate that you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about.
The CBC raked the Liberals over the coals just as much as anyone else. Hell, Rex Murphy's in hot water because he sided with religious concerns over gay marriage.
CBC's heads and shoulders above Global.
Re:Allow me to clarfiy (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just goes to show (Score:5, Interesting)
The Canadians have a lot to loose if any tension occurs between them and the US, far more than the British, yet they have been able to stand their ground well, whilst still maintaining the level of co-operation with the US, unlike our "sell out" government of Teflon Tony, who seems to totally ignore the British public.
And aside point, initially the British public didnt exactly say NO to the invasion of IRAQ, just that we were concerned about HOW it was going to be done. When our voices were not being heard, thats when many people decided to do towards the anti war message, in order to poke our government into action.
Does this mean (Score:5, Funny)
s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Funny)
Canadians rule.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Insightful)
I am also a brit, and the one thing i really love about Canada is the way it merged the Best of Britain, America and Europe into a country.
It is certainly intresting how Canada is more socialist than even Britain sometimes, and its a good thing, when you also see how its run, and the kind nature of the people.
I am not dissing Americans either, American citizens are really nice too. But I see the attitudes of the people not nessasarily reflected in aspects of the administrative procedures, which really can ruin a hoilday by a tourist.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Funny)
Instead, they ended up with the culture of the US, the cuisine of the British, and the technology of the French!
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Informative)
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:3, Interesting)
And you also have to register your g
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Insightful)
i) pay for sex
ii) smoke marijuana
iii) marry (or have a legal union with) someone of your own gender
iv) implement a number of simple mathematical algorithms in software
v) have a telephone conversation without risk of government surveillance
vi) travel internally on an aeroplane without ID....
I could go on. The US is the the last truly free country, as long as you define "free" as "free to do those things the government, in its wisdom, allow you to do".
Exactly like every other Western Democracy.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:4, Funny)
I'll take what little remains of my religious freedom and stay in the US.
http://fromthemorning.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:3, Informative)
Uh... wouldn't that mean everybody's dead?
--Rob
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:4, Insightful)
Dude, you need to stop getting all your information from Fox News.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Informative)
To go Hunting, you need to go on a hunting course, it's called "Hunter Safety" and among other things teaches you about different types of wildlife, how to tell them apart from other wildlife, how to protect yourself and how to avoid shooting other people. You pass the course, you get a license. Pretty simple.
Since we do not allow concealed weapons here in Canada, in order to use your handgun you have to have a range membership and transport is only allowed between your place of residence and the range. That isn't that bad. Up here we use long guns primarily for hunting, and there are no further travel restrictions on those except they have to have trigger locks and be out of sight at all times while travelling. It's not that big of a deal really.
What people get into a hff about is the new "Registration" for guns. It's a little stupid, you have to pay the gov't $25CDN to buy/register/transfer a gun to your name. They then send you a little paper with the serial number (if it's a serialed gun) and make/model/calibre. You haver to carry this paper at all times in case the feds (not the provincials) decide to stop you and question your ownership... Again, not that bad.
Now, if you have over 15 guns the RCMP (feds) can show up at your door at any time and ask to inspect the gun store and ammo store and make sure you are doing things correctly. Again, I own six, I do not find this fifteen limit "surprise raid" thing an issue.
I don't like the feds knowing about each gun I own, but it's not that big of a deal, I use them for hunting, not for causing some armed rebellion.
If anyone has issues about the information I provided, I can provide links if I have to. But anyone who lives in Canada and actually knows the law, and is affected by it knows what I wrote to be true.
Anything you need to know can be found here [cfc-ccaf.gc.ca] or here [about.com]. As for freedom of religion, your issues about "Hate Crimes" are blown way out of proporation. The issue you are referring to is basic civil righs and equality for all. Gay bashing is not a sport, and the churches have this issue with it. I myself have no problems with gay marriage - Canada is founded on freedoms for all, not just freedoms for the church - if the church wants to do something, fine - don't let it infringe on another minority's rights. The issue is the heads of church basically defaming the gay population which is against the law and the rights of gays are held in the same light as say, the rights of jewish people, or arabs not to be defamed or whatever by any other group.
In Canada we protect the rights of everyone, even if some groups like it or not. Seriously, do you think being a Christian gives you the right to bash gays? If you do, you have some predjudices that need to be worked on buddy.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Interesting)
[1] Unless I'm mistaken and you can own IR / RADAR hybrid missiles, and your own SDI system and nuclear deterrent.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:4, Informative)
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:3, Insightful)
You forgot one:
Free speech is systematically being taken away from the people. Far more so that here in US. When a person can be legally arrested for being "politically incorrect" a huge red flag should go up. Unfortunately, that's the direction the US is headed...
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Insightful)
Bahahahaha... riiiiiight...
Who knows why they attacked the WTC but i would guess thats not why. Maybe it was beucase it was the symbol of their oppression. A symbol of our power over them? They do not hate all christains. They do not want all christains dead. Look at some of the laws put in place in Iraq and other countires with the purpose of raping their economy so a few thousand people sitting in towering office buildings can get rich.
I find it conveniant that you talk about your family as having fought in every war. Thats very nice and all but i would like to think that we dont give any extra credit to someone's opinion ebcuase of what their family did. What if your family owned slaves? Should that follow you everywhere?
BTW nice job calling "Muhamad (ewww) Ali" a coward, nice touch.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, don't forget which "freedom loving" nation put Hussein in power and gave him the only WMD he ever had. How many dictatorships have we established over the years?
Have you ever heard of the School of the Americas? The US is directly responsible for most of the torture and brutality that went on in Latin America in the 20th century. I have family on the receiving end of the results of those wonderful lessons in "freedom."
I don't beat up random people, that does not make me a coward. Learn some history before you go shooting your mouth (and your guns) off again.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean like the right for gays to marry the person they love?
You crack me up sometimes.
Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (Score:5, Insightful)
I think your forgetting about the hundreds (thousands?) of billions the US has in debt for various reasons, including the Bush wars.
Canada has debts too, because they decided at some point to develop infrastructures and improve life quality of the citizens. Now they are trying to pay it off.
Did all those bombs bring you inner peace?
Border guards (Score:5, Insightful)
What do you need security for? (Score:5, Funny)
With an example like that, the world should conclude that you people are good friends but lousy enemies!
Weary or wary? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Weary or wary? (Score:5, Funny)
Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how many terrorists this amazingly intrusive and expensive system has actually caught.
Re:Land crossing question (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
At least before they had to have some sort of probable cause, now all they need is one word - terrorism.
It's interesting because I got a big long winded letter from one of my senators explaining why he voted to erode my rights, and that he didn't think that the act eroded constitutional rights. I guess he missed that part about probable cause in amendment IV of the Bill of Rights. Go figure.
For your information, this was Senator John Warner from Virginia.
Re:Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's not the issue. The PATRIOT act is simply a control-through-fear technique. Keep the masses in fear of 1) an outside power - the terrorists 2) the structure designed to remove 1) - the law
Oh, and about the numbers of criminals that have been caught under this law? I dunno, but the number of convictions as far as terrorism goes is exactly ZERO. Nice job there, Ashcroft!
B
Re:Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
We were better off when we had the Soviets and Communism to fear. Back then, the media was pretty much under control and not the fear-spewing idiots they are now. But after the fall of the Soviet Union, there was nothing really to fear for a short while....the politicians didn't have anyone to rally against, the media didn't have fear-laden headlines to sell commercials and papers.
It's a fiasco now...with terrorists behind every tree, global warming melting the entire Earth, liberal media vs. conservative media....dogs & cats living together: MASS HYSTERIA!
Re:Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
You're 100% right, for a number of reasons. First off, our security was threatened a great deal more by the Soviet Union than by international terrorism.
There are reports (which I've cited on
The World Trade Center sucked, and so does the so called war on terror, but the casualties of the cold war are staggering by comparison.
Vietnam: 58,000 Dead
Korea: 33,000 Dead
WOMD Pointed At Us: 55,000
Compare to the War on Terror where casualties have been measued in the thousands and there remain no WMD pointed at us.
The Bush appologists will tell you this is because of the superior quality of the US military in this war, and the continued dominance of the US as a the last remaining superpower.
They might be right on that second point. Just as the school bully generaly fairs better picking on a 1st grader than a HS Senior, so also will the US fair better picking on Iraq or Afghanistan than China or Russia.
We're blowing this out of proportion. Terrorism is a threat, yes, but a threat to be compared to other fiarly innocuous problems throughout American History. Terrorism is like the 21st century's version of the 19th Century's Mexican War.
Weapons of Mass destruction are still terrifying, but as long as a superweapon can be smuggled into our cities in the bloodstream of a legaly documented traveler... what can we possibly do? It's time calm down, get our wits about us, and face the world.
Unfortunately, we've just elected a witless redneck to another four years of marioneting by Dick Cheney, Dark Lord of the Sith.
Is there any room up in Canukistan?
Re:Land crossing question (Score:5, Insightful)
That is misleading and/or incorrect. The correct statement is: Compare to the War on Terror where American casualties have been measued in the thousands
Re:Land crossing question (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder how the number of US Soldiers that were killed by Iraqi Mil
Re:Land crossing question (Score:3, Informative)
Hmmm there might be a few people here and there with something to say on the subject. This country was founded by a coalition of the God fearing who felt they had the mandate of said deity to, well, systematically mince the world and reform it in their image. Yum - tastes like McNuggets.
Native Tribe of Kanatak, Sitka Tribe of Alaska, The Stikine Tribes, Central Council of the Tlingit
Re:Land crossing question (Score:4, Insightful)
Not 100% bad (Score:3, Informative)
But it also has provisions which are designed to catch money launderers, and do a reasonably good job of it. I know you haven't considered actually reading the law to find out what it actually does, because that would interfere with your fantasy of America being the most intrusive government in the world, but you really should take a lo
Re:Land crossing question (Score:3, Interesting)
Should the government ban everything that has the potential to be dangerous.
Freedom is dangerous, so I guess we should ban freedom altogether.
People like you scare me.
You have no right to visit here (Score:3, Insightful)
In other words, does your selfishness override the rights of the country in question to do what it can to protect its citizens and police its borders?
As someone else mentioned, your not forced to come here.
Along your line of reasoning why should I have to declare anything to foreig
Re:You have no right to visit here (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You have no right to visit here (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You have no right to visit here (Score:4, Insightful)
For example back in the mid 90's I had to declare that I'm not planning any attacks on the White House when I visited the US (coming from Europe). There surely was no harm done to me, but seriously, how childish can it get?
Re:Land crossing question (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Land crossing question (Score:3, Funny)
http://news.com/States+to+test+ID+chips+on+fore
Re:Land crossing question (Score:3, Funny)
The terrorists did NOT come through Canada (Score:5, Informative)
To quote:
This is not the first time that Canada has been falsely accused of harboring terrorists and allowing its space to be used as a launching pad for a potential attack on the United States. Immediately after the September 11 attacks, media reports flashed around the world stating that several (and in some reports, all) of the 19 hijackers entered the United States from the northern border. We now know that all of the terrorists entered the United States directly from overseas with US-issued documents. None of the terrorists came from Canada.
http://www.canadianembassy.org/ambassador/03011
Re:The terrorists did NOT come through Canada (Score:3, Insightful)
Privacy laws extend internationally (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (Score:3, Interesting)
So this could result in a messy case of a US company having to decide to follow the US law, or the EU law. In this case the company is screwed, unfortunately the fear is a US company would rather break a foreign law then the US law.
Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (Score:4, Insightful)
And as for your second point:
If I'm for example buying a book at amazon.de (having created an account there) they have to obey German/EU privacy laws, because they are doing business in Germany. Since I can log into amazon.com with my account I don't really believe that they are following the official safe harbor policy, but in principle they have to respect the laws of the countries they do business in, which has nothing to do with the EU extending laws beyond their borders.
Next up for Canada... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A really stupid overly idealist view you have. (Score:3, Interesting)
Just like the death penalty has eliminated murders from all those Texas cities... oh, wait, no it hasn't.
PS : You'll notice the Canadians were more than happy to send troops to Afghanistan, from where the terrorists actually were operating.
PPS : Threadjack!
Re:A really stupid overly idealist view you have. (Score:5, Insightful)
So basically, when the poorly named Homo Sapiens is extinct.
I for one welcome... (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, so it's not new, but it seems to be more obvious recently...
Fortunately... (Score:3, Funny)
"Your excellence, it appears that an evil race of aliens are planning to attack us -- also, they have a whole bunch of oil. Good thing we already have PATRIOT ACT VIII drafted up."
Privacy Details (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Privacy Details (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't Do Business With Them (Score:5, Interesting)
Then just don't do business with those firms.
Let your money do the talking... apparently politicians listen more to corporations than individuals (especially the average
RTFA, besides this was going on before Patriot Act (Score:4, Informative)
This is no different then was going on before the patriot act, so no big change, it just looks better to the mass idiots if include the words US Patriot act in the headlines.
Everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe someone should teach Bush that there isn't only "us" and "them". Because mentality like that slowly chips away at "us" untill everyone is "them" and you're in a padded room going "THE VOICES TELL ME THEY ARE GOING TO BOMB US! THEY WILL BOMB US AND WE MUST GET THEM FIRST! IF WE DONT WE'LL ALL DIE! QUICK NUKE THEM ALL!"
Canadian email, for example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have asked for clarification of this situation from Rogers but have not received a reply. As a Canadian I find it odious that my personal communications can be inspected by a foreign government without cause or warrant, and with no recourse to the law.
Both countries officially espouse 'due process of law'. For those of us looking in from the outside, it sometimes seems the US is working hard to change this to 'due process of erosion of privacy rights' (with a big side order of 'due process of corporate-profit enforcement' but that's another story).
If the tables were turned, and the Canadian government was trolling through American's e-mail accounts, the hue and cry from the south would be deafening. Right now, the only thing deafening is the silence as the American people allow their own government to trample the rights and freedoms that were bought and paid for in one Revolution, 2 World Wars, and countless other military and civil actions.
Don't get me wrong - I am not an Anti-American, as your media would have you believe all Canadians are. Hell, we all grew up watching the same TV shows and news programs, reading the same magazines, driving the same cars and eating at the same restaurants. We all swallowed the same propaganda.
That's why it's especially chilling to watch our neighbours sheepishly acquiesce to - or worse, actively endorse - these 'terror-busting' measures.
If American themselves can't identify and stop the erosion or elimination of their own rights, what hope does that leave for the rest of us?
Chilling, very chilling.
I think it's an appropriate time... (Score:5, Informative)
http://homepage.mac.com/onegoodmove/movies/anncou
Re:I think it's an appropriate time... (Score:3, Funny)
Why her books sell so well confuses me, though.. I never thought so many Fox News viewers could read!
Re:I think it's an appropriate time... (Score:3, Interesting)
In World War I, Canada sent 600,000 troops to fight in Europe. In World War II, Canada sent 1.5 million troops. To put this into perspective, you need to understand that the population of Canada during World
Overacting (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, the Patriot act gives some legitimate cause for concern to people (although I personally don't feel threatened by it). However, Slashdot comments (and some of the editors) are famous for seeing the worst case only and getting so worked up that no one will take them seriously. For example: No offense to Timothy, but I stopped reading his articles a long time ago, since I know exactly what his opinion will be on any given topic (oh, no, government is horrible!).
Many of the posts I've seen above made it sound like the PATRIOT act is the end of the world. One claimed that we now live in an Orwellian 1984-style society. We don't. Sure, mistakes will be made along the way, but it happens all the time. Even with the judicial process, innocent people get tossed in jail from time to time. It happens.
But increasing the government's power (while not something I'm in favor of) is not really a cause of that. The people that work for the government are still just regular joes like you and me who will try their best to be good and do their jobs well. Even if you're one of those left-wing wackos who believes that President Bush is the antichrist, remember that the hundreds of thousands of people who work for him will make their own decisions about right and wrong.
Too many people on Slash see the government (or corporations, for that matter) as big, faceless entities whose sole goal is power and the opression of the little people's rights. Believe it or not, that's not really the goal. So just take it easy with your comments here. Try to reason things out before you post so that we can have intelligent debates instead of spreading FUD about American laws.
And just for my 2 cents on topic, tough luck Canada.
Re:Overacting (Score:3, Insightful)
And just for my 2 cents on topic, tough luck Canada. :) If you do business that crosses into our country, you need to be held accountable by our laws, whatever they may be. The same holds true in reverse - if we're doing business with your country, then once we, our product, or our communication crosses the border, it's susceptible to whatever laws you have up there
Re:Overacting (Score:3, Interesting)
Thats the crux. I know I take my chances whenever I deal with an american company, and thats fine. I accept what happens then, but the problem is that we DO NOT KNOW when our information could be compromised because Canadian corporations have not divulged the use of american contractors.
In the past th
This is not surprising.... (Score:5, Informative)
Watch out America... (Score:5, Funny)
...we might even use the word damn... I'm sorry, that was rude.
Ruled by fear (Score:5, Insightful)
Before that it was almost 10 years between the first attempt on the WTC and the second.
So out of anger and fear we craft the badly misnamed US Patriot Act. An act that stomps on friend and foe alike, but hardest on our own people. We create yet another new massive federal bureaucracy to protect us. What do you suppose all those people at that massive new federal agency are going to do for the next 10 years to justify their existence? They're going to put their own people and friendly visitors through endless procedure and invasive, pointless snooping. All to try and find a handful of people patient enough to wait another decade or longer.
In some ways the terrorists have already won. How easily we're spooked into throwing over constitutional protections that used to be the envy of the world. Thousands died on the battlefield to protect those freedoms but what's that sacrifice to a generation that grew up under the coddled over-protection of those ridiculous Baby On Board signs?
I hope our friends to the north don't take it personally because it's not.
Meh, probably not (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Toronto - God help you...
(Born and raised in Montreal)
Re:Canadians don't like the Patriot Act, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am an engineer who moved to Canada 10 years ago from a wealthy European country. I have degrees, money, health, the language, everything I need inclduding a Cnadaina wife and two Canadian kids - and yet it took me a year and a half of laborious paperfilling to be allowed in. Believe me, refugees do NOT have an easier time of it.
Backronym (Score:3, Informative)
tax/person: USA=$6702; Canada=$5545 (Score:3, Informative)
>>>>>
27. United States $6702.42 per person
28. Jersey $6666.22 per person
29. Man, Isle of $6531.01 per person
30. Austria $6472.72 per person
31. Cayman Islands $6324.22 per person
32. Israel $6294.41 per person
33. Qatar $6119.56 per person
34. Singapore $6053.90 per person
35. Guernsey $5882.62 per person
36. British
Re:Not necessarily (Score:3, Informative)
For taxes + social security, they put both Canada at 25% and USA at 24%. Not a huge difference.
Same goes for the gross wage, canada is at 32926 US$ and USA at 33456 US$, when balanced with purchasing power & exchange rates.
Re:Sort of... (Score:3, Informative)
2. Evidence gathered without a search warrent or even probable case is addmissble in a CRIMINAL trial (in the states this is a big no no, it is tossed out period).
incorrect. [rcmp-learning.org]
Re:Pot-Kettle-Black (Score:3, Interesting)
The US is a very young country, and a large part of the founding of our country was for freedoms of speech and religion. In our not-so-distant past we fought a revolu
Re:Canada, Land of the Jihaddie (Score:3, Informative)
But ya, in general, foreign terrorists get into the US on visitor or student visas. A lot of people incorrectly associate the idea of 'illegal alien' with 'terrorist'. Illegal aliens are the people who do the jobs none of the citizens want to do.
Re:FLQ Crisis (Score:3, Informative)