Identity theft Happens Predominantly Offline 326
prostoalex writes "Worried about identity theft online? Relax, say the Feds. You're much more likely to have your identity stolen offline (72% of the cases). In half of all the cases, it's the friendly relatives, neighbors and friends who steal the identity of the victim. Moreover, those watching their financial accounts online lose approximately $551 per incident. The average rockets to $4543 for those relying on paper statements from their banks and credit card companies."
this is why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:this is why (Score:5, Funny)
You're so right! I do that with email too: print them, then shred them thin. No more spam or viruses, nosiree.
Re:this is why (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:this is why (Score:2, Funny)
Re:this is why (Score:3, Informative)
Re:this is why (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:this is why (Score:2, Interesting)
However, our mail system is getting privatized, and the new mail services demand access to these locked boxes, so they can deliver mail as well. Now legislation has RULED to replace our locked mail boxes with UNLOCKED ones, in order that everyone can access them.
May those idiot politicians rot in hell.
Re:this is why (Score:5, Informative)
Which is why I now always pay at the pump, and try to avoid any situation where my card will be in the hands of someone else. Most places where you swipe the card yourself, the cashier does not have access to that information. Although, I used to work a grocery store, and while the receipt didn't contain the full credit card number, the roll that kept the transaction log at the register did, and it would have been very easy for myself or any other employee to simply take the roll when we were heading to count our cash drawer and pick a few names and numbers to use.
I imagine that most cases of "identity theft" are simply credit card fraud, and usually is not the result of someone dumpster diving for information.
Re:this is why (Score:4, Informative)
Another thing is that you should never use your debit card at a retailer, only at an ATM ran by your bank (unless you're really desperate for cash.) Very few banks offer the same sort of protection against fraud that credit card companies do. Most credit card companies will excuse any liability for any charges that you did not make.
Re:this is why (Score:3, Informative)
Re:this is why (Score:3, Informative)
Re:this is why (Score:3, Insightful)
Weouldn't it suck if you bounced your rent or mortgage payment because someone racked up fraudulent charges against your DEBIT card dropping your bank balance to near zero?
And, have you ever tried to get your money back in that case? It can take upwards of sixty days with some financial institutions.
The parent poster is right. NEVER use your debit card unless you absolutely have to.
True, but it's not the same. (Score:3, Interesting)
If someone steals you debit card and charges 10k of your money, Wells Fargo doesn't give your money back untill they prove you aren't defrauding them.
The rules are the same and you are at the same risk, but in one case Visa is out the money during the investagation and in the other you are out the money.
Re:this is why (Score:5, Insightful)
> to avoid any situation where my card will be in
> the hands of someone else.
There's another option: pay in cash. People that try to steal that stuff generally get caught a lot quicker, and even if they don't get caught it doesn't hurt you in the slightest.
Credit cards are handy things, but using them to replace cash for day to day purchases is asking for trouble.
I suppose if one is constantly getting mugged the above may not be sound advice. For the rest of us, it's much safer.
Re:this is why (Score:2)
Re:this is why (Score:3, Funny)
Tips in restaurants can be calculated to the exact penny.
Sounds a little imprecise to me.
I've found that waitresses are much more impressed when you leave the exact 15% tip, which is why I carry penny wedges cut into slices of US$0.0005 denomination.
Add three of those twentieth of a penny wedges on the table and it really says you care.
Re:this is why (Score:2)
Re:this is why (Score:2)
Naturally, though, it's not plain old American criminals, it's Evil Nasty Terrorists(tm).
Re:this is why (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically for any purchase larger than say $50 you have to call the company and get the purchase approved. The company then gives you a transaction number that will charge to your card number once, but then never work again.
The phone system could have a voice identifier and maybe a limit to what numbers could call to approve things. (Home phone only so people would have to break into your house or at least hack your lines to accompl
Now is the time.. (Score:5, Funny)
Phishing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Phishing? (Score:2)
Re:Phishing? (Score:3, Informative)
1. The phishers attempt to scare me by saying if I don't respond within 24 hours, my account will be disabled. No financial institution would impose a deadline like this, since it's not guaranteed that people check email every day.
2. The phishers have atrocious spelling, like "we noticed some unnusual activity on your acc
It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:5, Interesting)
RARELY do i have someone ask to see my identification, no matter where I go. it amazes me how easily it is to get away with small things like this.
But I do urge everyone to do that with their credit cards, it may not always be checked, but it is better than a scribble on the back. But while in london, I almost had a pub owner take my CC because my name was't "ASK FORD ID", arg.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:5, Funny)
Personally, I write "THIS CARD IS STOLEN!" on the back of mine. That way, I'm extra sure it'll be reported the very minute it's used after it's stolen.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I should start writing things on the back of my card - "Give 5% discount", "Shake hands and smile", or "I'm 17, too babe, it's legal".
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe that writing "please see id" on the back of a credit card is a perfectly valid signature, for the same reason initialing, checking a box online, or marking "x" on a contract is valid. A "signature" does not have to literally be your name, only your "mark." Or are you going to argue that electronic checkboxes do not represent a valid signature?
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:5, Interesting)
If I steal your wallet and the cards are signed "please see id", all I need to do is print out a quick fake ID with your name, but my signature of your name and my picture and unless someone's good at checking out of state ID's, no one will even notice. If your wallet is full of signed cards, I have to risk signing in front of the cashier and having it look nothing like the back.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:3, Interesting)
There's no law saying that the shopkeeper has to follow my orders if I wear a shirt that says, "Videotape me to make sure I don't shoplift," but they seem to do it alot anyways.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:3, Interesting)
There is a thing called common sense.
I put in big capitol letters with a marker SEE ID on my credit cards, and I don't tell retailers its the law or store policy or anything else for that matter if they don't check it. I will say that I have noticed a much greater likelihood of the retailer checking my ID. I will also bet my signature on a napkin that the odds of a "b
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Some cards have a saying on the back that goes something like "Card not valid if not signed". Writi
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Not that anyone enforces this, of course...
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
I always figured that if you could fake an embossed credit card, then you could fake a (then - 10 years ago) much easier drivers license.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:3, Funny)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
On the other hand if you ask for ID you can usually go "oh, crap, i don't have it on me" and 9 times of 10 if you don't make an immediate move to go back out to the car to get it, the person will ring the card up as usual.
Someone else commented that Post of
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
There's a site that tested this... (Score:2)
True Story (Score:5, Interesting)
I began to get them together (under the counter -- we'd had people grab & dash cartons off the counter the week before). Then the guy handed me a visa card. I read the card, looked at him, and said: His response was something along the lines of "It's because I'm black, isn't it?". Ummm, no, it's because I just saw you talking to those kids outside, and these are the brands they smoke, and this is not your credit card. He insisted that it was his wife's card; I insisted his wife could pick it up from the RCMP then (an RCMP car pulled up coincidentally), and he ran off.
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2)
Most cashiers just look at me with a stupid grin, and barf out something like "oh, you do that for protection then? Pretty wise eh, I should do that too" and let me go without checking my ID. When I ask them to check it anyway, they usually turn red and tell me only the real card owner would ask that, and so therefore they don't need to now.
Anyway, most cashiers are dumb as bricks, "ASK FOR
Re:It amazes me how bad retailers are (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem is that most credit cards are not valid without the cardholder's signature (actually, I'm pretty sure all credit cards are invalid unless signed, but not
Yes but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, there are some sorts of identity theft that really only make sense online, such as eBay and PayPal scams.
Re:Yes but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, the point they're trying to make is that the leading reason people who don't shop online give for not shoping online is that they're credit card will be stolen. Consumer's Power says that the reason few people use their online payment system is that they're afraid their credit cards will get stolen. The reason so many people say they won't use online banking is that - suprise suprise
with friends like those... (Score:5, Interesting)
I suppose that relatives that dumb aren't smart enough to sit down and use those browser-cached passwords to access your PayPal account while you're in the bathroom and send themselves some money anyway.
I'm actually surprised that co-workers aren't a bigger piece of the statistical pie on this one. They often have access to records, PCs, the all important "work number" and so on. I've run across those incidents, and am amazed they're not more common.
Cow Orkers and Cube Farms (Score:3, Insightful)
You forgot the most important factor: cow orkers overhear everything within a 3-cube radius.
With the web, it's not too bad -- but sometimes you have to deal with IVR (interactive voice response) systems, and that's when you get into trouble.
I can't
Stats and FAs (Score:3, Insightful)
RTFA (Score:2)
Finally... (Score:2)
Irrelevant statistics. (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider that an online banking site may *not actually* be an online banking site. A physical bank, on the otherhand, is without fail, a physical bank. However, I don't have to worry about someone rooting through my garbage to find bank statements if all my data is online.
So both systems have their inherent vulnerabilities. The fact is that you are really paranoid, you are ultimately safest doing everything in person and taking proper measures to destroy relevant documents.
All this study says is that there is a higher incidence of paper based identity theft. Which is to be expected: how many low-level criminals do you think know javascript, for example?
Re:Irrelevant statistics. (Score:2)
If they want to steal from me, they have to steal my investments, and most of the time, I mix them in with Coke and down them at nights! No whisk(e)y for you!
Re:Irrelevant statistics. (Score:2)
This reminds me of stories about ATM thefts.
1. Someone places a fake front over a real ATM and collects deposited cash.
2. An "Out of Order" sign is placed on the ATM, while someone, dressed as a guard, stands by the machine and helpfully takes deposits.
I blame lazy CC industry (Score:5, Insightful)
The CC industry needs to create a secure credit card. Until they do, fraud cannot be stopped.
Re:I blame lazy CC industry (Score:2)
Re:I blame lazy CC industry (Score:3, Informative)
I wanted my photo! (Score:2)
4 weeks later, I finally got my new ATM/Check Card. With no photo on it. Man, I was bummed.
Re:I blame lazy CC industry (Score:2)
The CC industry needs to create a secure credit card. Until they do, fraud cannot be stopped.
The minute it is profitable for them to do something they will. Otherwise, they will sit back and collect the 18-20 someodd interest rate on the average person's CC balance of what is it $
has your social security number been stolen? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:has your social security number been stolen? (Score:2)
Re:has your social security number been stolen? (Score:2)
Thanks alot!
Liza
Probably. (Score:2)
That's not your number [ssa.gov], Mrs. Whitcher. You should be using 567-68-0515 instead.
On a personal note (Score:2)
When say the people who I play DnD with come on over they can easily get my statements...hmm especially since some of them i only just met... Oh well
Re:On a personal note (Score:2)
I'll look through the documents *rolls die* You are only able to decipher that the papers are accounting documents
I use my counterfeiting skill to create a new identity
*rolls die* You may now use the identity of Larry Smith, my... err his social securit... errr Royal Identification number is 555-42-2005.
Out of character, Wow I like how you use actual things to make the
ID theft through the mail (Score:5, Interesting)
He caught the unauthorized activity by chance when he deposited a check at the bank and they told him he had a negative balance. Around $480 of unauthorized activity had taken place. They froze the account at that moment, he went and filed a police report, and the bank canceled payment of all of the fraudulent items.
He received calls and letters for months saying he had written bad checks and that he would have a warrent put out for his arrest if he did not pay. He had to mail dozens of copies of the police report and a copy of the notarized statement he made saying he did not write the checks or authorize electronic payment of the items purchased on the internet. The postage totaled about $30. The money from his account was eventually all returned to him, but all of the time spent on the phone with companies trying to get the issue straightened out is a huge hassle, and the money for postage and telephone calls to various out-of-state companies comes out of your own pocket.
Are they really "friendly" relatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Are they really "friendly" relatives? (Score:2)
I had a friend who told the judge at his dad's sentencing to "lock that man up". Course this dad was a pedophile, not just into a little fraud. Still sometimes you have to face the facts: someone you love doesn't deserve love, and needs to be locked up.
We need reform in the financial industry (Score:2)
If your identity is stolen, it ruins your credit rating for the rest of your life. Why? Because no financial institution will trust that it's really you wanting to finance the furniture or buy the house.
What we need is some kind of system involving cryptographic key exchange between buyers, sellers, and their banks. Sellers should make an o
Not quite the nightmare you portray (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not quite the nightmare you portray (Score:2)
Anyway, I still would like to see a system like the one I proposed above implemented. It would reduce costs dramatically, help with record keeping, and prevent nasty service companies from repeatedly charging your card even if you've called them several times to cancel the service.
Re:We need reform in the financial industry (Score:2)
Or we could build actual reputations within the community where we live. We could deal with people we know and who know us, or at least with whom we have mutual acquaintances.
Of course this would require us to *gasp* settle down and possibly start thinking of our communities as more than stepping stones to be trod over and left behind.
Which one do you think is easier for me to make use of?
Re:We need reform in the financial industry (Score:2)
Typical. (Score:2, Funny)
Hey!!! I didn't order a collection of XXX-videos - now wait a minute...
SCOTT!!!!!
Take steps to prevent it (Score:3, Informative)
One thing all the credit card companies and bureaus (Equifax, etc) told us to do is to call their fraud hotlines and put a block on each card that keeps anyone from changing the mailing address. ( no I don't remember what happens if I actually DO want to move...I've been here 20 years and I aint movin...con sarn it)
Re:Take steps to prevent it (Score:2, Funny)
28% Is Still Online (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, 28% is still ALOT for identity theft. I'd still be careful of what you do on the internet that involves personal data.
Also, it's it kinda ironic that the top thread right now had one of those "Click for a free Mac Mini" sigs which are one of the main portals for this kind of stuff.
Re:28% Is Still Online (Score:2, Informative)
NOT 28% of online transactions result in identity theft.
The first statistic is pretty much completely meaningless unless you put in other facts.
Experience with a Canadian government contractor (Score:5, Interesting)
It irks me that the agency is still under contract to the government. The privacy policy they had us sign when we applied actually said that our data would be totally safe and secure. (Of course, that's an insane promise, but they shouldn't put it in writing!) And the agency completely bungled the way they told people about the data theft -- even counselling people to do nothing, which conflicted with the government/police recommendations. Thousands of people were affected, but I bet my husband and I were the only ones who knew to check with police, instead of doing nothing.
Keyloggers = offline? (Score:2, Insightful)
Sorry to go off on a tangent.
But when they say "offline" does that mean "not on a computer" or "not on the internet"?
Because the other day I was at a public terminal and I noticed someone had installed a keylogger. Guess they wanted to collect everyone's information (i.e. passwords and usernames) and return for them at the end of the day.
Technically, that is not online. Is it?
Correct me if I am wrong
Thanks
Prevent fraudulent use of your Credit card (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Prevent fraudulent use of your Credit card (Score:2)
Or a credit card that's actually a debit card ($0.00 charging limit) but reports as a credit card.
I agree... (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice timing (Score:2)
http://d280599.u36.fast-host.com/ws/aw-cgi/verify . php [fast-host.com]
http://d281000.u36.fast-host.com/ws/aw-cgi/verify. php [fast-host.com]
The directory the php files are in is interesting. The whole thing is laid out in there. The email actually points to login.php, which brings you through a coupl
What to do... (Score:2)
Reduce Junk Mail.Reduce the Risk of Identity Theft (Score:4, Informative)
1. Take out every credit card and call every agency. Tell them that you do not want your information to be shared with anybody. That will reduce the risk of id theft due to less junk mail.
2. Get a good shredder. Shred every piece of useless mail with your address on it.
3. Sing up for paperless delivery of credit card statements and loans. Most companies use secure servers and if your ISP uses SSL then you can safely get mail in your inbox. The inbox can be archived and encrypted in the future.
4. Sign up for electronic bill pay through your credit card. Your bills will be paid on time and you will get less mail. Remeber, somebody can get your address w/o taking your mail.
5. Inspect your credit reports from three major agencies at least 2 times a year.
6. Call credit report agencies and tell them not to share your info with any other institutions. CC agencies love to do that, especially if you have loans.
7. If you get junk mail, see if you can opt-out. If you can, do that; otherwise, the companies who send you this shit can be in trouble.
Good God! DONT ASK FOR PAPERLESS STATEMENTS (Score:3, Insightful)
DON'T DO THIS STEP.
Only extract the statement from the institutions' secured web pages.
my ID theft merry-go-round (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd hate to multiple this by many accounts, if a larger identity was stolen.
Lemme do the math (Score:5, Informative)
28% is on-line
39% is off-line by strangers (78%/2)
equals
67% by strangers.
So, 1/3 of the ID theft is by someone you know. 2/3 is strangers.
Tips to safeguard yourselves:
1. Look in your wallet/purse and remove SSN# from all ID cards
a) Medical card
b) Dental card
c) Old-man fraternity lodge
d) Military ID
e) and yes, your state drivers license (in dumb states only)
You can verbally give your SSN# to the cop/doctor/guard if and when you get challenged. And no, you won't be fined for tampering with the license. Three Federal Statues will protect you on this formerly malicious act (IANAL, but I did it).
2. Use shredders on the following containing account numbers, ID# or SSN#
a) bank statements
b) loan offers
c) utility bills
d) FAXes
e) virtually anything with your SSN# (and account #)
3. Perform lockout of your credit history. It is free to do. $10 to unlock it (how often do you apply for credits?)
4. Religiously apply for opt-out with insurance and financial institutions for your rights on Privacy Act. This hopefully eliminates sharing of your information.
Above steps goes a LONG WAY to drastically minimizing your vulnerability level and will go to bolstering your legal case against the identity theives, if and when, they get caught.
Carpa Diem!
spin it the other way (Score:3, Interesting)
Friends & family theft: 50% of all theft; 100% occurs offline
Stranger theft: 50% of all theft; 44% occurs offline, 56% occurs online
(Why? Because 72% of all theft occurs offline, and friends and family accounts for 50% of the total. Given 100 thefts, 50 of them are friends and family, and (72-50) are offline non-friends non-family, or 22. That leaves 28 thefts to occur online.)
If that conclusion is really true, then you can spin these numbers in the entirely opposite direction; the headline could be More Identity Theft By Strangers Online than Offline.
However, the article also says that online theft of bank and CC information is only 12% of all identity theft. 72% + 12% = 84%; who knows where the other 16% really are (maybe they're online theft but not bank/CC). Ain't lying with statistics grand?
$551 average (Score:2)
Re:Is online banking good then? (Score:2)
Re:Bank of America Online Banking (Score:2)
Even worse is Price-Waterhouse for their online stock trading. They demand you use either a 6 or 7 character alphanumeric password. Needless to say, my account is closed there.
Re:Bank of America Online Banking (Score:2)
President's Choice (Score:2)
No fees. That's why I use them.
BMO is worse. (Score:3, Informative)
They limit you to a 7 CHARACTER PASSSWORD!
Bank of Montreal [bmo.com] is worse -- all passwords are between 4 and 6 characters. In fact, their FAQ [bmo.com] lists 6 characters as a "good" password. Scary.
Re:Cell Phones (Score:2)
Re:When did it become "identity theft"? (Score:2)