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Education Privacy United States

Feds Propose National Database of College Students 825

Dore writes "The Department of Education wants to collect personally identifiable information on all college students, including name, address, birth date, gender, race, and SSN. Privacy is assured. The No Child Left Behind Act, which holds primary and secondary schools accountable prompted this line of thinking. Now colleges should be held accountable. If you made it to college, you were not left behind, and further attempts at monitoring citizens should be."
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Feds Propose National Database of College Students

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  • Privacy is assured. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:57PM (#10957810) Homepage Journal

    Oh? Well, that certainly clears things up, no privacy concerns then, its not like anyone bribeable will have access to it...
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:40PM (#10958314)
      "For example, over a third of students transfer colleges at least once, and 20 percent transfer twice or more, according to the American Council on Education. Yet under the current data collection system, these students are marked as dropouts and never counted as a graduate of any school." I wonder how they got these statistics.
      • by eightheadsofdoom ( 25561 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:15PM (#10958618)
        I wonder who needs to be aware of the fact the kid graduated college to begin with. When that graduate out of this mythical 20% goes to apply for a job (or Grad. school), they're going to know where they graduated from, and be able to supply the interviewer with transcripts, certifications and degrees. This system is completely unnecessary, since grads already supply this information to the relevant people. Absolutely no need to get some huge database involved.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:32PM (#10958766)
          I just thought it was interesting that the article cites these statistics about college students, then the very next sentence states that these very statistics cannot be captured without a tracking database.
    • by bogie ( 31020 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:57PM (#10958490) Journal
      Or make that "Privacy is assured" until we feel like leaking the details of your kid as a political weapon. But of course nobody in power would do a dirty thing like that...
    • This is paranoia. They can't tell who made it to college and who didn't if they don't know one or the other. It'll be hard to collect the identities of kids that didn't go to college, wouldn't it? So they have to get the names of those who did.

      As for a draft and all that other stuff...they already know when you turn 18 because they know your b-day when you get your SSN. If they wanted to auto-register you for the selective service, they already know everything they need to know to do that.

      We can't say

      • by nacturation ( 646836 ) <nacturation@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:59PM (#10958964) Journal
        This is paranoia. They can't tell who made it to college and who didn't if they don't know one or the other. It'll be hard to collect the identities of kids that didn't go to college, wouldn't it? So they have to get the names of those who did.

        The question isn't one of logistics as you seem to indicate, it's one of privacy. For example, it would be hard to collect the names of people who didn't go to a gay pride parade, so therefore they *have to* collect the names (and SSN, and birthday, and...) of those who did.

        The real issue isn't "What's the best way to collect it?", the issue is "Why the hell is the government collecting this information?" Universities and colleges already know who their students are, given that students have to enroll. But why should the government start collecting lists? Churches and synagogues know who their members are too, but the government doesn't so let's start listing out all synagogue members. No Jew left behind either!
      • by Phragmen-Lindelof ( 246056 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @04:00AM (#10961191)
        We can't say the politicians should do something about our poor education, but then flout every attempt they make with these paranoid attacks.
        Our K-12 education is broken. Our university systems work very well. We have the best universities in the world. Look at the list of top 50 universities. Look at the number of international students who study at universities in the US.

        While K-12 education in the US is very poor, university education is very good. Why? The political process has (mostly) left universities alone while they (local school boards, state boards of education, federal agencies, etc.) have been making public education a political football. If you want to ruin undergraduate and graduate education and academic research in the US, simply let the government become more involved in the university education system.
    • by demachina ( 71715 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:51PM (#10958911)
      This is a really great extension to the program to insure top flight undergraduate and graduate students from around the world stop coming to the U.S. Last I heard they are already opting for places like Toronto and Oxford since its already really hard to get a visa to the U.S. and once you get here you risk being arrested and held indefinitely, without due process. Having no assurance of due process part used to be something you could only say about dictatorships, who would have though we would be saying it about the U.S.

      Here is a two step program to crater your economy:

      - Let your primary and secondary education system crater(bad underpaid teachers, promoting everyone, huge dropout rate, prioritize athletics and athletes over academics).

      -Drive away all the top flight well educated foreign students and professors America has become so dependent on especially in science and tech.

      Al Qaida's plan to destroy America seems to be working pretty well, launch one spectacular attack and let brain dead politicians and law enforcement officers do the rest of the damage as they seek to make everyone "safe".
      • by anagama ( 611277 ) <> on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:33PM (#10959222) Homepage

        • Here is a two step program to crater your economy:

        I think there are few more steps involved, but this is a good start when coupled with research restrictions (e.g., stem cells). Making sure all the cool future tech (bio, mechanical, or otherwise) is imported into the US will do wonders for destroying the economy. And since the poor are much more attracted to religions, it's a solid win for those working toward our (USA) budding theocracy.
        • by demachina ( 71715 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:53PM (#10959414)
          Right on.

          In America we spend money on vaccines for small pox and Anthrax and we don't have enough flu vaccine.

          In America we are going to spend hundreds of millions on a nationwide grid of biochemical warfare sensors.

          In America we will spend $200 billion and counting on a misguided war in Iraq instead of on education and research.

          In America we overturn the theory of evolution in favor of creationism and try to claim the Grand Canyon is a few thousand years old and was created by the great flood.

          I always wondered what it would be like to live in the Dark Ages.
      • by deanj ( 519759 )
        "Last I heard".... Yeah, right....complete FUD on most of this, and what your citing is completely wrong. Every time someone compares the US to a dictatorship I just want to laugh, because they have no freaking idea what a real dictatorship is. If this WERE a dictatorship, you'd already be in jail, or more likely DEAD.

        The primary and secondary education is already cratered, and has been for years. Despite that, the current educators resist ANY change at all, because it would actually make them accountab
        • by demachina ( 71715 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @10:10PM (#10959539)
          "Last I heard".... Yeah, right....complete FUD on most of this.

          Actually it was from the excellent Charlie Rose show on PBSU interviewing a guy who wrote a book on why America is losing its competitive edge, don't remember his name. Charlie Rose does some good interviews, way better than the big networks though he tends to be a little liberal for the right wing nutcases.

          If you want I can dig up some references. The guy said applications for graduate schools are way up at U of Toronto and Oxford partially because its a long hard slog just to get a visa to study in the U.S. since 9/11, I think he said it take a year or more now.

          The recent election statistics also show the highly educated trend heavily against the right wing nutcases who currently run the U.S.

          Anecdotally I've read a lot of posts here on Slashdot, from people who've said they would never think of coming to the U.S. anymore to live, work, study or go to conferences because its become so onerous to enter the U.S., secret dont fly and arrest immediately lists full of bogus names, and there have been to many well documented instances of people being arrested and subjected to various degrees of torture(often after being sent to countries who are good at toture). The one case I remember most vividly was a Canadian resident who was just flying through New York to Canada, who was pulled off a plan and was deported to Syria where he was tortured for a year until the Canadians finally found and extricated him.

          Another good one was Cat Stevens, having his flight diverted and being detained as a terrorist, like the guy that wrote "Peace Train" [] is an imminent threat to America. Though now that I think about it someone advocating "Peace" might be a threat to the people who run America these days.
          • by chialea ( 8009 )
            There have been a good number of students barred from reentering the US for 6-9 months while their visas were re-evaluated. (Keep in mind that everyone has to go home once a year to reapply in their own country.)

            I was at CRYPTO this year (a top-flight crypto conference, held every year at UCSB in california). A student's visa to come into the country to present her own paper was held up so long she couldn't even make it to the conference. Why? Because crypto is apparently threatening, even when it's public
        • Every time someone compares the US to a dictatorship I just want to laugh, because they have no freaking idea what a real dictatorship is. If this WERE a dictatorship, you'd already be in jail, or more likely DEAD.

          Which, of course, is true; quite clearly, you don't go to jail for accessing, for instance. :-)

          You obviously don't work in an academic setting, because people are STILL breaking down all the doors to get here, and do everything they can to stay.

          Cant find it online, but th

    • by iopsyc ( 836077 )
      Not to cause unnecessary concern, but I work at an association where we maintain a database that contains, among other things, personally identifiable information on all students in a certain field of healthcare. Thanks to the school accreditation process all of the schools in the US must submit the information to our association. Theoretically, anyone of the employees could be bribed (and we aren't even government workers). Essentially, some of this is already being done and no one seems to care, or know.
  • Now that Napster (the good one :) is gone, they need a way to track college students again :)


  • renamed (Score:5, Funny)

    by jrap ( 614351 ) * on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:58PM (#10957829) Homepage
    No Child's Personal Information Left Behind
  • What? (Score:2, Funny)

    The US federal government has proposed creating a national database to track people?? STOP THE PRESSES!!

    I mean, really... do we NEED to track every little thing someone does? How about a national database for tracking when everyone uses the restroom. We could put little sensors on all toilets to track how often they're flushed!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:58PM (#10957833)

    See! With the Republicans in charge, we can be positive that States and Localities will gain strength and that the federal government's power is limite....oh, wait. Never mind.

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nz_mincemeat ( 192600 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:58PM (#10957834) Homepage
    Does America have any laws regarding compulsory education to a certain level?

    If that exists and yet does not extend to college level, one has to wonder why this is being proposed.

    Also I can't see any real benefits (eg. in terms of missing persons) of this scheme. Anybody would like to think up some?
    • Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)

      Yes. America has compulsory education all the way through High School (the last 4 years in 12 years of public or private education.)
      • Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)

        by bluprint ( 557000 )
        Not really. You can drop out at like 16, which is a sophomore. Right? I never looked into it, but it's something like that.
  • If you made it to college, you were not left behind, and further attempts at monitoring citizens should be.

    Does this sentence make sense to anyone else around here? Or rather...

    This sentence make sense to anyone else around here does?
  • Whoah! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SillySnake ( 727102 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:58PM (#10957836)
    Where does it end? I mean really.. Broadcast flags are one things, but keeping tabs on every person that enters college? That's insane..
    Granted not a lot of people finish college, but a great deal start.. and the idea that the government feels the need to keep track of me in yet another way is outragious..
    By the time we get to college, we're in charge of making sure we succeed, not the government
  • by Yoda.bRAM ( 721608 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:58PM (#10957838)
    Looks like ole George Orwell was off by about 20 years.
  • by ChipMonk ( 711367 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:59PM (#10957840) Journal
    After all, aren't they the ones indoctrinating our future leaders with all this nanny-state nonsense?
  • by josh3736 ( 745265 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:59PM (#10957841) Homepage
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! If your college isn't "performing," you vote with your money and go somewhere else.

    No further legislation needed. (Also keep in mind we're talking about college students-- legal adults. Creating a No Child Left Behind-like database has more legal problems to consider.)

    • by TheFlyingGoat ( 161967 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:07PM (#10957949) Homepage Journal
      Except that a large number of universities receive state and federal money. I don't even think they're trying to track progress within college; I think it's moreso that they want to see which high schools are actually getting students enrolled and graduated from college. There's currently no way to do this, so there's no metrics for high school achievement.

      That said, I'm normally one of the people saying 'so what', but in this case I don't agree with a national database that includes names and social security numbers. Instead just have a database that anonymously tracks which HS a student came from and what grade they've achieved in college, as well as if they have a degree or not. Much simpler database and it'll achieve all of the same things.
  • by way2trivial ( 601132 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:59PM (#10957845) Homepage Journal
    " are getting for our investment in higher education?'""

    public school? i.e. community colleges- defensible.. private institutions? none of their damn business.

  • Random sample (Score:5, Insightful)

    by morcheeba ( 260908 ) * on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @06:59PM (#10957848) Journal
    If it's just to gather better statistics, wouldn't reporting data on just 5% of a college's students be enough? Of course, this would have to be the same 5% of students tracked through their whole academic careers, but that would be simple enough to do with a hash of SSN's.

    If the government doesn't go for this proposal, I'd like to see a better reason for tracking students.
    • Tracking (Score:3, Insightful)

      by alexo ( 9335 )

      > I'd like to see a better reason for tracking students.

      Educated people, on the average, are able to think critically.
      Educated people, on the average, are less swayed by patriotic-sounding FUD.
      Educated people, on the average, are harder to control.

      Ergo, we should keep close tabs on people who wish to get an education.
      If we know what they study, how successful they are and their personal and financial data, we could decide whether we prefer to use them for our purposes, ignore them or make them quiet.
  • Unnecessary data! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Staplerh ( 806722 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:00PM (#10957853) Homepage
    This is bad move by the US Department of Education. Much of this information is uneeded. I quote from the article:

    Under the new system proposed by the National Center for Education Statistics at the Department of Education, each student enrolled in college would have a computer record that included name, address, birth date, gender, race, and Social Security number. It would then track field of study, credits, tuition paid, and financial aid received and would follow the student if he or she transferred or dropped out and later reenrolled.

    Why does name, address, birth date, gender, race and Social Security have to do with this obstensible goals? An anonymous survey could be effective to gain whatever information they can possibly hope to gain from this system. They seem to be concerned with transfer students, but these could just be tracked without private information being encoded in a databse! This is a rediculous move, and probably just another move for a more complete database of civilian's private information.

    Perhaps some staticians could shed some light on what this study hopes to achieve, and why personal data is required?
  • by Bingo Foo ( 179380 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:01PM (#10957864)
    Kind of makes you wish we were back in the Reagan era, when abolishing the Department of Education was in the Republican platform.

  • Fine... (Score:5, Funny)

    by spidereyes ( 599443 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:01PM (#10957865)
    As long as

    1. It's searchable by name, location, major and gender
    2. It includes pictures
    3. You can rate each person
  • zerg (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lord Omlette ( 124579 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:02PM (#10957883) Homepage
    It makes sense, when you think about it. How many people who voted for Bush could possibly be affected by this scheme?
  • by Brigadier ( 12956 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:04PM (#10957910)

    Having over 6 teachers in my immediate family and once concidering the profession. no child left behind is a useless inititive. Why have a program that looks great but puts requirements on schoool programs without giving them the funding to reach said goals. The problem has never been documenting who gets behind, but ensuring that the school budget gets funded and passed before you fund prisons and roads. getting back to the problem why doesn't the government solve the public school problem before they take on colleges.

  • by mattkime ( 8466 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:11PM (#10957991)
    I have a friend that teaches in the New York City school district as a teaching fellow. They bring in recent college graduates and assist them in becoming teachers. Why? Because few people want to do the job.

    He loves teaching. Through high school he coached younger kids in soccer. He has a rare gift for it.

    He hates his job. There aren't books for the kids. There isn't paper for the copiers - unless he buys it. Basically, he has no materials for the majority of the classes he teaches.

    His school is being punished by NCLB. They have reduced funding because they have not met minimum test score standards. Why haven't they? Because their students come from poverty and the school itself is underfunded. There are four computers in his classroom - no mice or keyboards, all broken and never replaced. How can you expect the students to be serious about education when you're not serious about giving them one? They know its a joke - they know rich kids go to schools with books and paper and they have nothing.

    If you fail to meet minimum testing standards, you are given a bit of money, as any NCLB proponent will point out. This money is for basic math and reading courses. Funding for nearly all other programs is revoked. This means that teachers begin teaching for the test as to try to get their funding back. Teaching for tests is short sighted and ultimately doesn't teach the higher order thinking needed to advance in life.

    He is not a teacher but a disciplinarian. He is forced to spend his time with problem students rather than helping and rewarding the good ones.

    While NCLB has the nice ideal of encouraging better schools, it ultimate takes money away from those that need it the most. It further emphasizes the lack of access to education that the poor suffer.

    This might be semi off topic, but I think people should know waht NCLB is like from the inside.
  • by shaneh0 ( 624603 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:15PM (#10958031)
    Almost every university I know of sends a copy of your grade card to parents if they're paying for the schooling and request the updates.

    Government does subsidize higher education, saving students billions every year.

    These are our tax dollars that they're shipping off to universities and I think we (the tax payers) do have a right to know what's being done with it.

    If a university has a 75% drop-out rate should they be funded the same as, less then or more then a university with a 5% drop-out rate? That's worthy of debate, something not possible without this data.

    • by marshac ( 580242 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:41PM (#10958323) Homepage
      Legally, they can't disclose your records to ANYONE (outside of the Ed system) unless you give them consent. If you have a scholarship which requires you to maintain a 2.0, you need to provide consent for your records to be released. One of my favorite things to do in college was to cite FERPA to nosy parents who wanted to know their student's grades.... sorry parents, but even if you pay 100%, you're not entitled to their academic record once they're 18, or enter college.

      If your college disclosed your records to your parents w/o your consent, sue them.

      Before you say "no way", read an overview of the law.

      FERPA [] From the department of ed website:

      "FERPA gives parents certain rights with respect to their children's education records. These rights transfer to the student when he or she reaches the age of 18 or attends a school beyond the high school level."

      "Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record."
      Note that nosy parents is not a valid exemption.
  • by CodeWanker ( 534624 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:22PM (#10958109) Journal
    of spending tax dollars on something. You stick your mouth in the government trough, and the government sticks its microscope up your ass. And enough with the "private" colleges. They get much (and in a lot of cases, most) of their money from various government handouts, whether it's research funding, tax breaks on land and buildings, government-subsidized or -guaranteed student grants and loans, or a ton of other sources. You take the Man's money, the Man is gonna get his money's worth out of you.
  • by O ( 90420 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:24PM (#10958138)
    As someone who fills out a FAFSA [] every year, and just applied for a Federal Loan not five minutes ago, I've already given the Department of Education all of that information twice in the last six months. While not everyone will do so, I'm sure most students will fill out a FAFSA, even if they don't get any subsidized aid.

    Seems to me that the Federal Gov't already has all of this information and needn't waste any more taxpayer dollars trying to aquire it again.

    Note that I'm not trying to justify their attempts at data-collection (far from it, actually), I'm just pointing out that they already have that information for most of us already.
  • by raider_red ( 156642 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:26PM (#10958158) Journal
    I think we should counter by demanding an openly accessible database of elected officials, government employees, and government contractors. Data should include salary, work history, who made campaign contributions to whom, and other data relevant to running the government.

    Also, I'll happily contribute my own entry from my (brief) period as a government contractor.
  • by Kozar_The_Malignant ( 738483 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:30PM (#10958199)
    The more education you have, the more likely you are to actually think about what the federal government is doing. That makes you a problem by definition. Clearly, the government needs to keep track of people like that. They need a list of people to round up as soon as habeus corpus gets suspended during the next national security emergency.

    I think I started out to be sarcastic with this. The more I look at it, the less sure of that I am.
  • by dankelley ( 573611 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:33PM (#10958234)
    At the university where I teach, there is an employment rule preventing dicrimination based on physical or mental ability. Yup, I said mental ability. Welcome to this side of the academic looking glass.
  • Fear not (Score:3, Insightful)

    by K. Hapyman ( 835961 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:36PM (#10958269)
    Here in Finland and other countries in northern Europe we have a long tradition in collecting everything in databases. University students get into several databases which include personal information like name, age, parents, social status, cell phone number. Actually everything but hair color.

    I just can't see any problem. There is no privacy to lose any more. Why should I care about federal registers while credit card companies know everything I buy, my ISP knows where I spend my time and those smart fellows who keep closest APT repository online know my favorite editor. Probably I couldn't even do moon shine without getting into dozen registers.

    We are filed way beyond anything my glorious filehappy homeland can imagine.

    Isn't it nice?
  • by blueg3 ( 192743 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:37PM (#10958281)
    No Citizen Left Unwatched

    Coming soon to a Congress near you! (Only available within the US.)
  • What if... (Score:5, Funny)

    by flyingsquid ( 813711 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:51PM (#10958424)
    ... the government promises not to do anything bad with the list?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @07:53PM (#10958447)
    Now, however, there is a movement in Washington, particularly among Republicans, to demand greater accountability from universities in exchange for the federal support they provide.

    That ummm, who provides?

    I don't want a university system that it tied to the agenda of our federal officials.

    There is a cost to not monitoring individuals and I for one am willing to pay it.

  • Yes, but... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:03PM (#10958538)
    "collect personally identifiable information on all college students, including name, address, birth date, gender, race, and SSN."

    What about a "appeared recently in 'Gilrs Gone Wild?'" flag?
  • by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 ) <{gorkon} {at} {}> on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @08:17PM (#10958631)
    SEVIS is already here. Granted, not everyone will trigger a recors to be sent to INS, but those who fit the terrorist profile we're looking for. Strangely, I find that this seems to violate the fed's own FERPA laws....but I guess they could break thier own laws....
  • And my fingerprints have both arches and whorls, and as such are supposedly the easiest type to differentiate. She thought she was doing me a favor, what if someone snatched me (a beautiful little while child - no really I was cute as hell when I was little, something bad must have happened) and sold me to the turks or something!? But basically now I can never commit crimes without gloves. Curse it all! Hopefully no one will start collecting dna samples on a regular basis any time soon or I'll really be screwed.
  • Damn (Score:3, Informative)

    by panic911 ( 224370 ) * on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:00PM (#10958973) Homepage
    Well, now I'm DEFINITELY not going to college.
  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:05PM (#10959013) Homepage
    There's already a National Directory of New Hires []. This is supposedly to locate "deadbeat dads". Enforcement against employers is weak. But it's there.
  • by Jameth ( 664111 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:44PM (#10959337)
    Please, leave me here, behind. I feel safer when you're in front of me.

  • by didiken ( 93521 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @09:56PM (#10959436) Homepage
    Well, USA is fighting a "terroisom war" and Iraq is quite a mess, with a possible invasion of other "rogue countries" like North Korea.... so the college student database is a great aid to draft people into the army.

    Well, unlike Nam's time, people who is smart enough getting into college will also be drafted to the military. Military needs a lot of electrical engineers and programmers too.
  • by museumpeace ( 735109 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @10:44PM (#10959728) Journal
    its Big Brother. At the vary least such a registry would enhance the reach of the draft when the Bush league resurrect it.
  • by Linuxathome ( 242573 ) on Tuesday November 30, 2004 @11:51PM (#10960109) Homepage Journal
    And Bush cries about Democrats embarking on pork barrel spending? The Department of Education doesn't need to get their hands in this. There are already companies out there who are doing it: they're called student loan companies. I'm sure you've heard of them (i.e. Sallie Mae, the biggest one ever! []). They know everything about you, and they'll track you down if you try to run and hide. They make sure to know when you graduate, because that's when they start getting paid!

    College students should worry about their privacy, because I know that Sallie Mae outsources their service/call center, and current laws are vague about the legalities of this. Imagine all your personal information accessible halfway across the world by god knows who? Sure the internet does this already, but how secure is Sallie Mae's systems? If the government wants to spend dollars where it's worth it, then spend it on auditing Sallie Mae and their practices, to ensure that students are treated fairly.

  • by antispam_ben ( 591349 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @12:33AM (#10960322) Journal
    ... for those who abuse this database.

"I prefer the blunted cudgels of the followers of the Serpent God." -- Sean Doran the Younger