Dell Infringes on Patent by Selling Overseas? 407
senior.wrangler writes "Looks like new evidence that the U.S. Patent Office is hiring monkeys to bulk-approve new patents. DE Technologies has been granted a patent covering international transactions handled over the computer. Here's a quote from their web site:
With patent coverage securing 80% of the world 's trading markets, DE Technologies is securing licensing arrangements with international trading participants. Kinda creepy, if you ask me."
Licensing? WTF? (Score:5, Interesting)
WTF is right.. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about Interac (direct payment) machines? I know I've been able to use my Canadian debit card in the US long before Amazon became big. I think that qualifies as an international transaction via computer as well.
How can anyone take this out-of-work patent attorney loser seriously? His patent is lame, his business model is lame and even his website is totally lame....NICE JPEG JIGSAW PUZZLE YA DUMB TURD! That "1996 school of WWW design techniques" screams "innovative" about as loudly as your stupid patent.
Re:WTF is right.. (Score:2)
you ignore the problem of getting your purchases through Customs.
Re:WTF is right.. (Score:2)
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:5, Informative)
1. A computer implemented process for carrying out an international commercial transaction comprising:
* running a transaction program on a computer system so as to integrate processes including:
o (a) selecting a language from a menu in which to view cataloge information on products;
o (b) selecting a currency from amenu in which to obtain price information;
o (c) selecting a product to be purchased and a destination for shipping such product to be purchased;
o (d) accessing at least one local or remote database for obtaining
+ (i) price information for the product to be purchased; and
+ (ii) a product code for an international goods clasification system pertinent to such product; and
+ (iii) international shipping information related to an origination point of such product and said destination;
o (e) calculating costs involved in moving such product to said destination based upon said destination and such product;
o (f) determining a total cost of the transaction that includes a price of the product;
o (g) receiving an order for such product thereby triggering an electronic process for confirming existence of available funds; and
o (h) upon confirmation of availability of said funds, accepting said order, generating an electronic record, such record including the content of a commercial invoice, to facilitate passage of such product to said destination.
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:3, Interesting)
And that was way before 96.
I have prior art from 1993 (Score:5, Informative)
The system we built conforms pretty much to the criteria of the patent. Note that the patent does not say this is a "self-service system", it describes only the mechanisms for conducting an international transaction.
I'd add that in 1995 this was perhaps not obvious, even if today it's laughably so. However, there is most definitely prior art.
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
no no, it doesn't work that way.
you take something obvious, like opening a car door. then you add to that computer, digital and network.
so the patent you're going to file for would be "Opening car door using digital computer network", then you sue car companies for using digital authentication/key systems in their car keys/door openers.
or another one, writing an essay.
to that you add computer, digital and network.
this time the patent would be for writing literature works over a network of digital computers. THEN YOU SUE SLASHDOT!
Literature? Slashdot? WTF? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
Literature: creative writing of recognized artistic value
I think slashdot's safe.
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:2)
But anyway, whether I use it or not, it's an international transaction, right? Yes, 1-click shopping is also a stupid patent but at least it has more merit than this...
Re:Licensing? WTF? (Score:2)
Re:My next patent (Score:3, Informative)
Im going to patent the "idea of selling marihuana through internet", you see, since it was illegal before internet creation, there is no prior art, and some day, when marihuana gets outlawed, i will be rich....or dead.
There are already some shops selling marihuana and hash over the internet here in the Netherlands.
Prior art....
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Gah (Score:5, Funny)
meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"
meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"
Dear Microsoft,
Please kindly check if they have a license for Frontpage 4.0
Dear World,
Do you really worry about being sued by someone using Frontpage 4.0?
Dear Investors,
They want to skank you money, you loosers, don't invest, if IBM and Dell say 'shoo' to these wankers, then you can pee yourselves and run along.
Dear Mr. Edward Pool,
I saw your pic here: http://www.detechnologies.com/biopage.htm
You look like a spivvy wanker, I hope there is no Mrs Spivvy Wanker for you to torture with your small penis.
Don't think you can pwn the internet else we will track you down, and monitor your network traffic, voice calls, toilet frequency, choice of floss and diethabits, until we find that little pressure point, and apply pressure, with a jack hammer.
Thank you.
Dear Penny Arcade,
I would love some nice juvenile rhetoric aimed at these bitches. They may increase costs of games online, or stop the whole idea of tipping artists and micropayments.
Oh did someone patent online busking yet?
The plan is:
1: Take something from reality
2: Put 'e' in front of it
3: ???
4: Profit
Where 3: is usually just pretend to makea fake product and sue the shit out of people until you go SCO (which is lingo for fucked now I hope).
So:
1: Selling to johnny-foreigner
2: e-Selling to johnny-foreigner
3: Sue Dell
4: Wander around looking where they stached your penis, except you have no arms, and they spooned one of your eyes out.
Have fun
Trouble for all? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Trouble for all? (Score:3, Funny)
omfg (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:omfg (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:omfg (Score:4, Funny)
So then they attended the Darl McBride School of Business Law.
Re:omfg (Score:3, Insightful)
Here is my patent (Score:5, Funny)
Wipro, I own you!
Re:Here is my patent (Score:5, Funny)
A method of bypassing lawyers in the patent process by stepping through every current patent and adding the words "with a computer," with a computer.
I don't think anyone (Score:2, Interesting)
(Auto Reply) your patent (Score:5, Funny)
From: patent-approvals@uspto.gov
Subject: (auto-reply) Your patent
Your patent submitted to patent-approvals@uspto.gov for "A new medical miracle! Better than V|agr.a" has been granted. Your patent number is 54594523345. Your patent certificate will be mailed to:
OptInRealHard
Service Dept.
Box 450
Sarasota FL
Re:(Auto Reply) your patent (Score:2)
Boca Raton (Score:4, Informative)
Its really not fair to the monkeys! (Score:5, Funny)
Monkeys dont get no respect around here!
I wonder if this guy has another patent... (Score:5, Funny)
"A method for reviewing and granting patent requests automatically via computer"
Might explain what's going on out there.
This is just silly (Score:5, Informative)
Jesus Christ... (Score:4, Interesting)
May it be rigorously enforced for the good of humanity.
Re:Jesus Christ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Clearly you have the patent number? I looked at the article and found no mention of an actual patent - only the assertion that one exists. Of course, this is an obscenely irresponsible method of journalism since every issued patent is published and available on the internet.
It's quite obvious that unless someone can provide the patent number, any discussion here epitomizes uninformed bullshit. Of course, I could search for the patent, but I w
Re:Jesus Christ... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Jesus Christ... (Score:4, Informative)
Direct link to patent (Score:2, Informative)
Kinda creepy? (Score:5, Funny)
Here's a quote from their web site: "With patent coverage securing 80% of the world 's trading markets, DE Technologies is securing licensing arrangements with international trading participants. Kinda creepy, if you ask me."
If even DE Technologies can publicly admit their scheme is "creepy", you know something's rotten in the state of Denmark.
Re:Kinda creepy? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Kinda creepy? (Score:2)
A million monkeys... (Score:5, Funny)
You know, I'd patent the idea of using monkeys to come up with patent applications, but there's prior art.
You don't understand patents, do you. (Score:2)
A million monkeys, pecking away at a million typewriters, will one day reproduce the entirety of this patent application.
Is surely covered by an SCO patent, but you can still get your own patent - like so:
A million chimpanzees, pecking away at a million typewriters, will one day reproduce the entirety of this patent application.
As a bonus, since most people think of chimpanzees when imagining our simian friends typi
A patent about discussing patents next! (Score:3, Funny)
Does prior art mean nothing in this, hell what next backdated claims to sue Columbus
Perhaps a patent about issueing patents then taking the patent office to court for infringment and see them sort out this common sence/prior art monkey-fooing.
I can just hear it now... (Score:5, Funny)
blah
Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:2)
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:4, Funny)
they list a basic CS 4 year degree for Computer Science patents, but under Electrical Engineer there's about a page and half of specific requirements.
Half these companies are probably sending employee's children to college under an "I want to be a patent examiner" fund to get there ideas quickly approved.
I think this is the only job in CS I've ever seen that doesn't include any prerequisite experience.
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:2)
We need to be careful in any requests to disband this PTO group, though... they're prime PHB candidate
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:4, Informative)
The assertion that the USPTO employs monkeys in an assembly line is an indictment and conviction of the public's crippling ignorance into how the legal system works. I know an examiner who has a graduate degree in both nuclear physics and electrical engineering, and I wouldn't even bother asking what undergrad degrees he has - and this guy doesn't even have the authority to issue a patent. I hold two BS degrees, and if I advance as fast as possible, it will be over half a decade before I can issue a patent myself.
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:5, Funny)
Does 37 CFR cover common sense?
You monkeys approved a patent on teasing a cat with a laser pointer. I am somewhat less than interested in any 37 CFR paragraphs you can cite that will support your arguments.
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:3, Insightful)
The patent is supposedly #6,460,020. The problem with it is that it is totally obvious even to a high school dropout. Here is the first claim:
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:3, Interesting)
Until you can do that, this patent will stand.
Re:Check out the US Patent Examiner... (Score:4, Insightful)
And if that is what is truly necessary then you are just proving the parent poster's point about the monkeys. The basic steps listed in the patent have been done by people for decades if not centuries. Just following along the same steps on a general purpose programable computer is not an invention, it's what computers are for. The first guy who just happened to own both a microwave and a cold piece of pizza shouldn't automatically get a pantent on "heating up pizza in a microwave"... not even if he writes down every little half step involved in the process of opening the pizza box. The first CPA to get their hands on an electronic calculator didn't deserve a patent on "A system of prepairing taxes using an electronic calculator" because that was an obvious thing for a person with that problem to do with that tool. I've been waiting for my flying car since at least the 70s and now it looks like the first guy to get one is going to patent every possible use one might make of a flying car and no one else will be able to actually go anywhere in one without violating a patent.
Forget this case... (Score:4, Funny)
Has everything already been invented? (Score:4, Informative)
This article inspired me to find out more about that [myoutbox.net] and found that it was a myth. Interesting though.
Duell (Score:2)
Re:Duell (Score:2)
But that was the quote that I only could paraphrase and which cause me to do the search in the first place.
Has anyone actually found the patent? (Score:3, Insightful)
I find it amazing (I guess I shouldn't) that we are seeing all of this commentry, but as of yet no reference to the actual patent.
As far as I can see the article does not mention it.
Does anyone have a reference to it so we can actually discuss this sensibly, or would we all prefer to keep shooting off our mouths in ignoarnce of the actual issue?
Re:Has anyone actually found the patent? (Score:5, Informative)
At one point, it was even mentioned in Congress by a Virginia lawmaker as a horrible use of the patent system. (Read another news story that has more on this [potomactechjournal.com].) And it was revised many times. I see a lot of work done on this.
Now do I think they are bastards? Oh yea. Do they have a case? Unfortunatly, it appears so. But this sort of thing shouldn't be patented in the first place.
Re:Has anyone actually found the patent? (Score:2)
Thanks for posting the reference and comments. Now if we can just get folks to read it. I agree that it really is a broad patent and doesnt really go very deeply into the process. Unfortunately, with all of the scutiny that it got, they probably do have a case.
Given the scrutiny I'm kind of surprised it was granted, but given that it was it's going to be interesting to see the fallout of this one.
Tp.
Re:Has anyone actually found the patent? (Score:2)
Begin by asking how long it took a dealer to get a firm price and shipping date for an export model BMW in the '80s. Then imagine on-line ordering factory direct from Germany, and the entire process automated down to the paperwork needed on the loading dock and on entry to the U.S.
What you need to do may seem obvious, but how
Another Broad Patent (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Another Broad Patent (Score:2, Funny)
Dear Feynman,
Please stop posting. Telling people that a patent's title has nothing to do with the claims, while true, quiets the uninformed weeping and gnashing of teeth we look for when posting patent topics. We would appreciate you taking your accuracy elsewhere. Thank you.
-CmdrTaco
Re: (Score:2)
Read it for yourself (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Read it for yourself (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Read it for yourself (Score:2)
Looking at the background claims section you see:
"Consumers have already discovered the advantages of shopping from their homes by the use of catalogues, television shopping channels or by computer transaction systems. There are numerous public internet web sites and private intranet sites that offer various articles and services for sale. Most of these public web sites and private sites operate in national configurations where the buyer and seller are restricted to a particular languag
Re:Read it for yourself (Score:2)
The example they use is an automobile.
It is surely not a trivial problem to instantaneously complete the paperwork and calculate the charges for a consumer purchase of an export model BMW. The patent was issued in 1997 and presumably
Re:Read it for yourself (Score:2)
For this to be a reasonable patent, rather than a crap patent, they needed to actually document all of the steps that they go through for the calculations, etc. to sell an automobile in detail. This patent would be much narrower in scope as if you had a significantly different method than theirs you would be allowed to sell automobiles. The problem with this patent is that t
A tool..... (Score:3, Insightful)
A car also lets me do things I normally couldn't do (like move in 3d space at a rate of 60mph)...
Is someone going to patent the idea of me driving my car so that I may get to work on time? The logic is the same IMHO....
Not Monkeys (Score:5, Funny)
> Office is hiring monkeys to bulk-approve new
> patents.
Not monkeys: very efficient clerks. It takes skill to wield a rubber stamp that fast.
This is not the first time we've heard of them (Score:4, Informative)
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/20/0
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/28/18525
The Patent (Score:2, Informative)
Modern Day Boston Tea Party (Score:2)
Some day in an open forum history class they will discuss the frustration programmers had with patents and how they revolted by ????? Maybe by burning a truck full of Windows Longhorn boxes when it finally ships.
The Search For Prior Art (Score:3, Interesting)
The patent abstract is this: An international transaction system for operation over the internet/intranet provides a pre-transactional calculation of all charges involved in any international transaction. Upon the option of the customer, the goods can be viewed on catalogue sheets translated to a language of the customer's choice, and the price provided in a currency selected by the customer. The customer also has the option of initiating the order with automatic credit authorization, generation of an electronic title or commercial invoice and arrangements and payment of shipping charges and any taxes and import/export duties.
It is dated December 29th, 1997. Let's do a little thinking and find any instances of prior art. Yeah, it should be a "dude, we all know that was happening before then" scenario, but let's actually find something concrete and send the bastards packing. Let the happy hunting begin.
Re:The Search For Prior Art (Score:2)
amazon, ebay, bol and on and on....
Re:The Search For Prior Art (Score:2)
Re:The Search For Prior Art (Score:3, Funny)
CONFIDENTIAL PROPOSAL FOR TRANSFER OF $38,500,000.00 FROM FEDERAL BANK OF NIGERIA THROUGH NNPC ACCOUNT ....
I assume this message will not be a surprise to you.
I am LARRY OGADWU an employee of Federal Government of Nigeria owned Corporation
OK with the Monkeys (Score:2)
Re:OK with the Monkeys (Score:2)
Just Damn. (Score:2)
This is INSANE.
the optimistic view (Score:3, Insightful)
So cheer on the next time you hear about a really stupid, indefensible patent, and think to yourself "We're one step closer to making the whole thing so stupid that it will have to be scrapped."
When I was at Palm, they paid us bonuses for filing for patents, and then extra bonuses for getting the patents. My name is on the patent for the web based calendar. How stupid is that? Apparently not stupid enough. A year later I got a patent for pretty much the same damn thing -- a method of scheduling events over the web. Now when I was doing this, I just wanted the $$$ Palm was paying me to think up stupid ideas, which they would then patent. Then after I left Palm, I felt guilty I had given them all these patents they might use to stifle innovators (namely me). But now I cheer! Because those patents are so dumb that they will fail under challenge, and as more and more patnets fail under challenge, things will start to get better.
Want to help? Apply for more and more stupid patents. See what it takes to get a patent rejected. Break the system.
As an aside, we also just got threatened by Acacia [eff.org] for streaming oggs. Honestly...where DO these people get the balls...
Why Dell rather than Amazon ? (Score:2, Interesting)
www.amazon.co.uk quotes prices in GBP
www.amazon.fr quotes prices in EUR
www.amazon.com quotes prices in USD, even though the system knows I live in the UK.
Did Amazon know this patent existed, or is it just the way they designed their business ?
This is great.. (Score:2)
And we know how fast things get fixed in D.C. when it threatens a politician's ability to stay in office.
patent violation!!! (Score:2, Funny)
Congratulations USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Congratulations USA (Score:4, Insightful)
In a time when we have leaders chomping at the bit to come up with any excuse they can to start strategic wars, not to mention their misguided domestic agendas, an out-of-control patent office is the least of our concerns.
--Jeremy
This does not meet the criteria for 'not obvious' (Score:3, Insightful)
This is getting so dumb, what is the solution? (Score:2)
Someone is going to patent the process of eating food with one's mouth and then we're all screwed.
Big Mistake. (Score:3, Interesting)
Prior art by any online foreign exchange services (Score:4, Informative)
My employer was conducting foreign exchange over a network over two years before this stupid patent was filed and doing internet transactions over a year before the patent was granted.
Your patent office is very dangerous and should be closed down and audited.
Re:Prior art by any online foreign exchange servic (Score:3, Informative)
If none of this crap exists when the application was examined how in the hell do you expect anyone to find i
"non-obviousness" (Score:3, Informative)
Does this patent have:
- Novelty? - Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but this hasn't been novel for a LOOOOONG time.
- Utility? - Definitely. But so does a pair of scissors.
- Non-obviousness? - Yeah, right. The patent was granted in 2002. This was non-obvious in 2002?
Ugghhh.Re:Idea....... (Score:3, Funny)
If I were you I'd settle outside the courts.
Otherwise we'd have to agree to not infringe on our respective patents and I can hold my breath for over a minute.
BOES PATENTABILITY POSITION PAPER (Score:5, Informative)
from http://www.detechnologies.com/pos_papers/patent_po sition_paper.doc [detechnologies.com]
Re:BOES PATENTABILITY POSITION PAPER (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:BOES PATENTABILITY POSITION PAPER (Score:3, Insightful)
The basic problem is still that the issuance of the patent presumes that integrating all this is non-obvious, which is debatable.
Furthermore, within the position paper itself, they assert "These questions relate generally to the false premise that the patent covers the simple automation of an old process on conducting international trade." Then later they claim clients can "turn to a software system and have all the necessary tasks efficiently performed" as the novelty of their patent claim. This fails t
Re:BOES PATENTABILITY POSITION PAPER (Score:3, Interesting)
Reading the patent it does seem like as always it is the obviousness test which is falling over in the US PTO, but if anyone can stomach reading it for longer then I
Link Fixed: (Score:3, Informative)
Fixed:
The patent in question: #6,460,020 [uspto.gov]
--
Bush Supporters Misread Many of His Foreign Policy Positions [pipa.org]
Re:Too bad they're not a patent litigation firm... (Score:2)
Re:How will this end? (Score:2)