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Patents Data Storage

Seagate Accuses Cornice of Patent Infringement 153

Posted by CowboyNeal from the proprietary-platters dept.
dncsky1530 writes "Seagate's recently filed a patent infringement lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware against Cornice of Longmont, Colo. Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States. Seagate asserts that Cornice is infringing on seven of its U.S. patents that relate to several areas of disk drive technology."
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Seagate Accuses Cornice of Patent Infringement More

Seagate Accuses Cornice of Patent Infringement

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  • if you can't innovate then litigate (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 03, 2004 @10:51AM (#9600108)

    seems to be the American way of doing buisness thesedays, at what point will we all stand around too frightened to develop anything for fear of being sued by a team of lawyers ?
    simply developers will end up forgetting about the US market and concentrate on other countries like China or India, perhaps USA's patent/litigate buisness model is just the beginning of its end

    cheers

    A>S

    • Patent Ownership (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:03AM (#9600161) Homepage Journal
      If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..

      Abuse of patent the system is wrong, but if you have received patent approval, you have the right ( obligation as far as im concerned ) to protect your patent.

      If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate. Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?

      • Re:Patent Ownership (Score:5, Insightful)

        by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @12:18PM (#9600546) Journal
        If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate. Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?

        Personally, I do not believe that. Companies would still inovate. They have to otherwise they would die. What would probably not happen is that inovations that require a lot of fundemental research (read expense) would not happen. Nor would companies be in a hurry to share information.

        Patents were developed to allow an individual time to develop an idea. Now adays, these have been extended to the point that they are the business. I believe that we should go back to what the framers wanted; A means to allow an individual to develop.

        • Patents on process --> crap
          Patent on product --> okay
          software patents -- urrgh!

          Liberal economists reject the patent system at large.

          Perhaps what the US needs now is an American FFII.US that wipes the lawyers out...

      • Re:Patent Ownership (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rollingcalf ( 605357 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @12:40PM (#9600670)
        " If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..

        Abuse of patent the system is wrong, but if you have received patent approval, you have the right ( obligation as far as im concerned ) to protect your patent."

        Obtaining a patent for something that was invented before or is obvious to those skilled in the field, and choosing to sue for infringement of that patent, is itself an abuse of the patent system (regardless of the fact that the system allows such abuse by granting low-quality patents).

        They should be sued only if they are violating the patents AND the patents are for legitimate non-obvious inventions. Occurrences of the latter are very uncommon these days.

      • Bull (Score:1, Troll)

        by fnj ( 64210 )
        If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate.

        BULL. That is what corporate shills would have you think. Are you pleased to have been taken in by them? Ever heard of trade secrets? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

        Patents are EVIL and UNNATURAL. They go against the natural right to use the brain God gave you to create things. They are BRUTISH. I thought of that FIRST, NYAH NYAH. It makes no legal difference whether you copy my patented design, or think of it on your own, indep

      • Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?

        Reverse engineering from the commercial product is not always so easy as you make it. It's not simply a matter of taking the product off the shelf and having factories pop up like mushrooms.

        A company might be confident that reverse engineering would be too expensive for its competitors, or that it would take long enough to make it irrelevant...

        It might well be that in a market that ev

      • I hereby patent the letter A: you owe me for using it.

        We forget about the blatent abuse the patent system causes? Not only that, but I should think technology is actually slowed down by the patent system, considering nothing stays new and therefore heavily profitable for more than 2 or 3 years.

        Yes, they should have the fruits of their labours. However, when your patents are used to exclude competition because they're so general, then you're not good for society or yourself.
      • If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..

        The problem is that someone making a modern harddisk and knowing something on how to do things will come up with the same idea. Prior art is something you can prove. But "it's easy for someone skilled in the field" is not.

        A patent is an invention that is new (i.e. no prior art), and not obvious to someone skilled in the field. At least that's how dutch and european laws formulate things.

        Suppose you're a webshop designer. In your logs you n

    • Re:if you can't innovate then litigate (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:16AM (#9600216)
      If your competitor didn't innovate but instead stole your innovation while you still have patent protection, you have to litigate. Otherwise, your competitor makes profits that rightfully belong to you.
      • There is no "right" to profits. There is, however, a right to protect your research. If you invent something and patent it, you have the right to demand licensing fees from anybody else who uses that thing -- even if they didn't reverse engineer your product to figure it out. This "first come, first served" patent system is designed to encourage research, as opposed to sitting around waiting for an idea to be invented for you.
    • I hold a patent on speaking out against patents, I would have let you know earlier but I was waiting for you do it a few so I can get more money from you when I litigate. I was never planning on using my patent, I just registered it so I can stand by and watch someone else think of it, then have my lawyers take their money instead.

      It is kind of like cyber-squatting but different, I call it patent-squatting.

      Here is my 4 step guide to patent-squatting Try to think of an idea that could be used by any bi

    • Looks like Seagate DID innovate; what's your point?

      Oh, that's right: you're a troll.

  • Western Digital too (Score:5, Informative)

    by Thiago Ize ( 730287 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @10:51AM (#9600113)
    Sounds like Cornice really is thieving -- Western Digital has also filed patent infringement charges against them. This is one case where I'm actually FOR filing suit.

    I feel dirty saying that here...

    • Re: Western Digital too (Score:5, Interesting)

      by randyest ( 589159 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:06AM (#9600176) Homepage
      Why should you feel dirty for thinking properly and lauding the use of patents in the way they were intended to be used? It's ok to stray away from the herd, you know, especially if the other sheep are being dumb and blindly following the blind sheep at the front of the pack.

      Which happens sometimes here on /. of course. But I expect to see mostly posts like yours -- this suit is wholly warranted, Cornice is stealing, patents can and should be used to protect against this sort of thing.

      I think most of us realize that inane blanket statements like "patents are bad, mmkay?" are useless and silly. In this case, patents are good. Even if some of the patents are teh 3vil "software patents" related to algorithms in the firmware or some such (I don't know, neither the linked info nor Seagate's website give any details.)

      Or maybe you were just joking. If so, I apologize for my lack of a sense of humor -- it's early and I was out late :)
      • Why should you feel dirty for thinking properly and lauding the use of patents in the way they were intended to be used? It's ok to stray away from the herd, you know, especially if the other sheep are being dumb and blindly following the blind sheep at the front of the pack.

        Maybe he just forgot to take a shower before he posted? *ducks*

      • MOD DOWN, PLEASE (Score:3, Insightful)

        by WindBourne ( 631190 )
        this suit is wholly warranted, Cornice is stealing, patents can and should be used to protect against this sort of thing.

        My understanding is Cornice is not infringing. What is going on is that these companies want Cornice to deal with them and give them access to Cornice's Patents (Think SCO vs. IBM. Think MS busy accumulating total BS patents.) These patents make it possible to build inexpensive, low-energy, small disk drives. This post was totally reactionary and does not deserve a 1 let alone a 5.

        • "My understanding is Cornice is not infringing."

          Just curious, where did your understanding come from? All of the news outlets just say Seagate is accusing Cornice of infringing, nothing about other deals.

          Maybe this really is a ploy to force Cornice into cross-licensing, maybe not -- but accusing someone of infrigement without having a strong basis for believing there is infringement can be heavily penailzed (and often is) under FRCP Rule 11.
          • Just curious, where did your understanding come from?Techies/Engineer from Cornice. I am guessing that there will be some level of infringment ( 1 line from the patent vs. the whole thing ) and that is allowing their lawyers to take the case to court.

            Interesting to hear about that penalty.

            • Re:MOD DOWN, PLEASE (Score:4, Insightful)

              by Macadamizer ( 194404 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @01:07PM (#9600849)
              "Just curious, where did your understanding come from?Techies/Engineer from Cornice."

              Cool, thanks.

              "I am guessing that there will be some level of infringment ( 1 line from the patent vs. the whole thing ) and that is allowing their lawyers to take the case to court."

              Yeah, that could very well be. You have to have at least a "good faith" belief that there is infringement in order to avoid sanctions.

              "Interesting to hear about that penalty."

              FYI, here's the relevant section of Rule 11:

              "(2) Nature of Sanction; Limitations. A sanction imposed for violation of this rule shall be limited to what is sufficient to deter repetition of such conduct or comparable conduct by others similarly situated. Subject to the limitations in subparagraphs (A) and (B), the sanction may consist of, or include, directives of a nonmonetary nature, an order to pay a penalty into court, or, if imposed on motion and warranted for effective deterrence, an order directing payment to the movant of some or all of the reasonable attorneys' fees and other expenses incurred as a direct result of the violation.

              (A) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded against a represented party for a violation of subdivision (b)(2).

              (B) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded on the court's initiative unless the court issues its order to show cause before a voluntary dismissal or settlement of the claims made by or against the party which is, or whose attorneys are, to be sanctioned."

              The scary thing (for attorneys, at least) is that the court can order that the Rule 11 sanctions be paid by the attorney and not allow the company that hired the attorney to indemnify the attorney!
              • The scary thing (for attorneys, at least) is that the court can order that the Rule 11 sanctions be paid by the attorney and not allow the company that hired the attorney to indemnify the attorney!

                We need more laws like that. I am sick and tired of us becoming a country of lawsuits rather than a country that makes things.

                Once it becomes expensive to be a lawyer if you try to screw the system, many will opt to be engineers or business ppl again.

                • "We need more laws like that"

                  Actually, this sanction applies to ANY case filed in federal courts -- but it really has only been widely employed in patent litigation cases.

                  So the law is there, but people aren't using it much...

                  "Once it becomes expensive to be a lawyer if you try to screw the system, many will opt to be engineers or business ppl again."

                  Or just be lawyers that DON'T try to screw the system!

                  You'd probably be suprised at just how many ways there are to get in trouble or lose your license if

      • Actually, while I suspect I would think suit was justified and proper in this case, I think the patent system as a whole is completely broken and needs a major overhaul and partial replacement.

        Given that, it makes me nervous to find myself supporting any litigation involving patents.

        Also, they are not thieving, they are violating patents. They aren't taking anything from anyone. They are violating a societal restriction of the natural right to copy ideas that we all have (supposedly) agreed to. That is

    • Then feel dirty. Cornice is in my neck of the woods. Apparently, they are starting to make inroad with technology and sales. This is just their way of getting Cornice to trade with them. Think how amazon uses the one-click. Interestingly enough, this may be total BS.

    • Re: Western Digital too (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gnuman99 ( 746007 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:46AM (#9600378)
      Maybe someone should post *what* patents they are infringing? Are these the "my disk is round" type of patents or something else?
    • Sounds like Cornice really is thieving.
      *ahem* It's not thieving, it's patent infringement.
  • If the US blocks companies from selling there, companies might stop trying to sell anything and could push the US economy into economic decline. I mean if you thought as a company that you had to jump though hoops in order to sell something in a supposedly free market would you still bother? Or would you just sell it in Europe?

    I mean the patent laws are anti-business anyway but when you start blocking products from the country, haven't we moved to an all new level of problems? How will small businesses a
    • The US is too big of a market for companies to (en masse) just say "Screw USA, not worth it.

    • Re:Couldn't this hurt the US? (Score:5, Informative)

      by randyest ( 589159 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:10AM (#9600189) Homepage
      I mean the patent laws are anti-business

      Eh? I guess that's true if your "business" is using the fruits of the research and development of other companies without any permission or compensation. But I'm afraid most business, at least those interested in developing new things, appreciate that they can use patents to help ensure they make some money to pay off that fat R&D bill before everyone else just reverse-engineers a product and puts out a knock-off version for half the price immediately.

      How will small businesses and internationals compete against US businesses when all international products are up for review.

      The same way they always have -- through innovation, superior products, better service, better prices, etc. You don't have to steal to compete.
      • Eh? I guess that's true if your "business" is using the fruits of the research and development of other companies without any permission or compensation.

        A patent can be used against you if you develop something indepenently. It can be used against you even if there was no real research and development effort to create the invention.

      • The word 'steal' is inappropriate in this context. It implies the errnoeous assumption that ideas have owners. Ideas are not property. They do not have owners.

        The patent system is a societal restriction on the natural right we all have to copy. We have all (supposedly) agreed to this restriction on our natural freedom in the hopes of achieving certain goals.

    • Re:Couldn't this hurt the US? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:13AM (#9600202)
      But in this case, this is being done to protect a US-based company from being driven out of the business by a competitor that's making the same product without having to pay any of the R&D costs behind it.

      Patents exist so whomever bears the R&D cost has some decent chance of profiting before everybody else rushes in and drives down the price. If you allow the patent system to fall, R&D dies with it.
    • The US makes up a larger slice of the market then the EU + the rest of europe + russia + africa combined.
    • How will small businesses and internationals compete against US businesses when all international products are up for review.

      A more interesting question is:

      How will US businesses compete when they must adhere to patent laws from which small businesses and internationals are exempt?

      Or better yet:

      Why would US businesses spend money on research and development to innovate when small businesses and internationals can reverse-engineer the product and sell the same implemetation at a lower cost becaus
    • You do realize that virtually every other country ALSO has patent laws of various types -- some stricter than the U.S., some looser, but most countries have a patent system of one type or antoher.

      At least the U.S. has an enforcement mechanism for patents, unlike India or China...
  • I think it's interesting that instead of Seagate competing with a quality 1" drive of their own (maybe they do, I just couldn't find one), they try to compete through litigation. Reminds me of somebody else I know.
    • Seagate competing with a quality 1" drive

      Seagate's web site lists 1" drives for CF applications.

      Western Digital is also suing Cornice for patent infringement. Looks to me like these guys are just corporate pirates.

  • ..and I'll bet these patents... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 03, 2004 @10:54AM (#9600130)
    ...are something like:

    Patent One:

    1) Method of storage digital data in a round magnetic medium

    2) Method of spinning magnetic medium

    3) Method of writing to round spinning magnetic medium

    4) Method of reading from round spinning magnetic medium

    5) Method of using round magnetic medium, reading and writing so that it can be put in a small box with electrical connectors

    6) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connectors to attach to Electronic Data Processing Machine

    7) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connects and drilling 4 holes in it so you can use a screwdrive to attach to said EDP machine.

    8) Amen.

  • Damn Cornice (Score:4, Funny)

    by Pedrito ( 94783 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @10:58AM (#9600143)
    They had to go and make the platters round. Didn't they know Seagate had a patent on round flat things with a hole in the center? Man, if it wasn't for Dunkin Donuts, they would have gotten that patent on ring-torus shaped things as well. And what would the police have to do if that had happened?

  • TOKYO - Seagate Technology LLC is expanding its battle...

    I hope this isn't irrelevant to discussion, but I was just curious- I thought Limited Liability Companies (LLCs) were only in the US. Do they have them in Japan as well, or was this article implying that the US branch of the company dealing with the U.S. International Trade Commission was registered as an LLC?

    • RTOFA (Read The Other Friggin' Article), Seagate LLC is indeed based in the US:

      "Seagate Technology, the Scotts Valley-based hard disk drive manufacturer..."

      While it doesn't explicitly say that Scotts Valley is in the US, I don't recall there being any town in Japan called Scotts Valley. However, there was reference to a town called Beaver Falls in the brilliant Prince of Space [imdb.com] (thank you, MST3K), so who knows what other Anglocized towns there.
      • It's about ten minutes north of Santa Cruz, CA. I drive through the corner of it regularly. And yes, I believe that Seagate is headquartered there.

    • Re:LLC (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No the equal/shared limited liability concept a la LLC is a long running company concept in Europe, the format has it's formal roots in the Co-op movement in Germany in the 1850-60 although this sort of partnership has existed much longer without a formal recognision, the LLC moniker however is only used in the USA and this news thus probably refers to the US operation, nothing unusual about a company going to court in another country after all, actually all too frequent these day's........

      Unusually a port
      • ... while in Scandinavia only lager companies that grew from co-op movements have used it ...

        Ah, the Tuborg, Carlsburg, Pripps and Ringnes "co-op". I wasn't aware they were the only LLC left in Scandinavia, though they have managed to almost completely take over the lager market there.

  • Why exclude? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:02AM (#9600157)
    Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States.

    If Seagate is truly out to protect their revenue (which is the intention of patents), they should have no problem letting Cornice continue to sell their wares... If Cornice is really infringing on the patents, they will eventually have to pay licensing fees to Seagate, so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit. And if there is no infringement, then there is no point in stopping their sales.

    This is where the US patent system is fucked up. Any patent-holder should be forced to allow others to use the technology by paying a reasonable licensing fee. Entities should never be able to use patents as a way of stopping competitors from making sales. Yet the latter has become the US way of doing business. Sad.

    -hadohk

    • Re:Why exclude? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by javaaddikt ( 385701 )
      It is bad because you're allowing the infringing company to gain market share and brand recognition by selling products with patented feature x. Then they gain credibility, remove feature x or alter it slightly for compliance, and and enjoy solid sales with no license fees.
      • Patents are supposed to be about royalties. Of course you'd expect someone using your patents to gain market share AND brand recognition. Else, you'd keep it as a trade secret. I don't see the problem with that. Also, I think patents would work best if companies where to be forced to split the revenues. Each company having a "patent collections" where they have to charge the same amount to their our patent department as they are charging others. You could stop any patent abuse, after all, they would have to

    • Re:Why exclude? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Macadamizer ( 194404 )
      "If Cornice is really infringing on the patents, they will eventually have to pay licensing fees to Seagate, so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit."

      And how do you determine whether Cornice is "really infringing?"

      You got to go to court.

      Cornice isn't going to pay licensing fees to Seagate because they realize they are "really infringing" or because Seagate "feels" they are infringing -- they will pay licensing fees when they either get dragged into a lawsuit and decide that it's not worth a f
      • Actually, if cornice feels there are not infringing, they can counter sue for loss, improper business practices, and probably bring Seagate patents under very close scrutiny.

    • In this case it is actually worse.

      As I understand the article Cornice makes 1" drives only (small enough to fit into MP3 player) and Seagate does not produce such drives at all.

      If Cornice infringes Seagate patents and Seagate wins they would squashing a manufacturer with a completely different niche.

      • Either Seagate holds patents on the technology, or it doesn't, but the fact that they aren't manufacturing products based on patents they might hold is irrelevant. Otherwise, what you're basically suggesting is that it's okay to take someone else's idea, so long as you're faster to build a factory than they are.
        • Otherwise, what you're basically suggesting is that it's okay to take someone else's idea, so long as you're faster to build a factory than they are.

          Ahh... Just thinking of the days when you couldn't patent an idea or a formula.

          I guess the patent office of today is not the patent office of the 1930s, eh?


      • Seagate does not produce such drives at all.

        Seagate's web site lists 1" drives for CF applications.
    • Any patent-holder should be forced to allow others to use the technology by paying a reasonable licensing fee.

      Stalin would be proud.

    • Cornice will only have to "eventually pay licensing fees to Seagate" if Seagate successfully sues for patent infringement. The fact that Seagate is asking to exclude Cornice does not necessarily mean that exclusion is actually Seagate's desired final outcome. It could simply be a litigation strategy. It is used all the time. If Seagate wins the infringement action, and Cornice is faced with the possibility of losing ALL revenue from the infringing product line, that is a HUGE incentive to Cornice to set

  • No surprise.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mr2cents ( 323101 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:06AM (#9600175)
    Is it even possible to design a harddisk these days without ingringing on one of the major player's patents?

    Is that the future that awaits programmers with those software patents?

    • Re:No surprise.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) * on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:39AM (#9600338) Homepage
      Only a terrorist would question the government.
      -- John Ashcroft

      • Re:No surprise.. (Score:2, Insightful)

        by k98sven ( 324383 )
        Googling gave nothing: Do you have a source for that quote?

        Although I truely despise Ashcroft, I cannot believe he is so monumentally stupid to say something like that.

        Or did you intend to paraphrase?
    • No, it probably isn't - or, rather, you can't make a product Just Like That (TM). If it could be done, it would take a great deal of expensive R&D...just like it did to create the modern drives (whose methods are patented now). That's why there are usually licencing fees that get paid. If the licensing fees are too high, then it will be worth it for you to do the R&D to do it a different way, then undercut the greedy bastards who wouldn't sell you patent rights. Or just wait 'til the patent expires.
  • A summary of the 7 patents that are supposedly being infringed upon: #1 - Method of writing 1s to drive #2 - Method of writing 0s to drive #3 - Method of reading 1s from drive #4 - Method of reading 0s from drive #5 - Means of assembling drive (screws) #6 - Means of rotating circular data disk (motor) #7 - Method of powering drive (electricity) Plus they are planning to utilize two of seagate's pending patents (not yet enacted); "method of writing 2s to drive" and "method of reading 2s from drive"
  • I'd like to see more information on the technology thats being infringed upon. If Cornice is indeed taking patented technology, ripping it off and using it for their own benefit, then they should be stopped and have to pay for it.
    Unlike software patents, which should be treated differently, hardware patents have quite a bit much more riding on the line for the company that chooses to undertake the endeavor of actually designing and manufacturing a piece of hardware.
  • Spend their time making reliable HD's?

    An ageing 15G maxtor is up and perfect, while the last three seagates I've bought 2 o' em are already in a garbage bin somewhere, and this one is soon to follow, plus another I've to return 'cos it was defective from the start, damned POS.

    If cornice is stealing seagate's tech, then I'll put 'em in my 'do not ever buy list' along with seagate.
    • Probably just your bad luck, since my Seagate drive has been running reliably for about 3 years now. (Though, looking back at your numbers, maybe it's my good luck.)
    • I have a different story here. All my maxtor drives crapped out on me(old and new ones), some after only 1-2 month, some after a year. One time the first drive died after 2 months, then the replacement drive died after 1 month, then the other replacement drive died after 4 months... then I stopped sending RMA and now I buy only WD or Seagates.

      I think it's the same with Motherboard... some people have more affinity with some specific brand, but overall, they are all mostly equal.

      What I like about Seagate i

  • Wait and See (Score:5, Informative)

    by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:39AM (#9600341) Journal
    Some of you are in a real hurry to convict Cornice with out having a grasp of what the situation is. They are a start-up with good technology and good sales. Basically they produce diskdrives that use very few parts. Cornice was started by a group that use to make Maxtor, Seagate, etc. They know well what the patents are. My understanding is that the company is not infringing, but both groups hope to pressure Cornice into trading patents with them.

    • very few parts? I think that's an overstatement. (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What they really do is allow you to move parts of the drive controller out of the drive and into the CPU on an embedded device.

      This isn't all that new an idea, it's sort of like a return to a ST-506 interface.

      The company I talked to talked to Cornice a while back. They were clueless. They removed all kinds of functionality, and suggested the users of their technology supply it in software. But did they supply the software? No.

      It might go somewhere, it might not. I don't think the company is much to crow
      • These folks did Quantum, Maxtor, and Seagate drives and know what is patented and what is not. It could be that managers/attornies know that infringment is occuring, but counting on trading to make it right. But according to the techies, they are not. In this day and age of companies being based on Patents, it is hard to tell.

        BTW, you are correct about the interface. This is a return to simpler times. It is quite probable that we will repeat the tech cycle of this interface leading to a new and cheaper app
    • If Cornice is not infringing then wouldnt Seagate bringing lawsuits against them for "Infringing on our patents" constitute a malicious lawsuit? And arent those frowned upon in the US and a fair number of other countries? And wouldnt Seagates lawyers and management know that? Im very doubtful that Seagate (and Western Digital it looks like also has a patent lawsuit against Cornice) is that stupid, there isnt enough stupidity to go around as SCO has it all.
      • In the US, we seem to litigate just about everything. While I doubt that what I heard was 100% true (no, we are not infringing), I also suspect that any infringement is minimal. That is these will be partial infringments that leaves the court saying is it infringment or not. Besides, I suspect that this is simply a means of forcing Cornice to allow others into their space/interface.

      • That line of reasoning is wrong. Always assuming guilt encourages companies to make baseless accusations because people like you will simply assume that the defending party must be guilty.

        • Im not assuming guilt, Im just assuming that Seagates lawyers and management know their jobs and have enough evidence of an infringement to make this a legitimate lawsuit. The parent to my post claims that Cornice arent infact infringing at all, and the lawsuits are just a form of bullying. I was stating that there are laws against just that sort of lawsuit, and if that were the case then Seagates lawyers would be in a world of trouble.
          • Perhaps, perhaps not. Since the courts are not usually tech-savvy, they can easily be bamboozled
            by fast-talking lawyers.
            The SCO lawsuit against IBM is founded on very thin "evidence" and many of their accusations have been ripped to shreds publicly yet they're forging ahead with the suit.

  • Anyone know what the actual patent numbers are? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AnotherBlackHat ( 265897 ) on Saturday July 03, 2004 @11:59AM (#9600450) Homepage

    Anyone know what the actual patent numbers are?

    -- not a .sig

  • Which patents are they infringing on, I see nothing in the article(s), or on seagate press release. Maybe segates just jealous, and maybe seagate and WD think if they both file there will be no litigation, because they must be right.

  • Two things. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Raven42rac ( 448205 ) * on Saturday July 03, 2004 @12:17PM (#9600539)
    Western Digital is suing them too, so obviously something is up. Full disclosure requires me to say that 6 members of my family work for Seagate. The gist I got from the article is that Cornice is infringing on Seagate's patents relating to 1-inch hard disk drives as one of the seven patents alleged to have been infringed. I know how /.ers feel about software patents, but it is right to extend that attitude to the hardware sector? These aren't ones and zeroes, these are platters and heads. The materials cost actual money, and thousands of actual people depend on those materials to make their living. If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate. If there is no incentive for profit, most companies won't bother to make something. That is capitalism, you take the good with the bad.

    • Re:Two things. (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes, everyone knows money is the only goal in life.

      *smirk*

      Some people innovate for other reasons- like they have a genuine interest in their field.

      I want communism in America.

      • Re:Two things. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Raven42rac ( 448205 ) *
        Ok, I will take the bait. You can't operate a business without money, so if people can just come along and steal your ideas, you're screwed. Some people innovate for genuine interest because they are already independently wealthy and can afford to not make money, the same is not true for corporations, who have shareholders to report to. If you want communism in America, then I guess you don't like eating, or having property, or not being shot/disappeared.
        • You can't operate a business without money, so if people can just come along and steal your ideas, you're screwed. Some people innovate for genuine interest because they are already independently wealthy and can afford to not make money, the same is not true for corporations, who have shareholders to report to.

          Question. Is Seagate making all they money from spam that they could? If not, why not?

          You can't operate a business without money. True.
          So if people can just come along and steal your ideas, you're
      • Yes, because communism was such a fountain of innovation.

        It's not the "brilliant idea" that needs patent protection. It's the 999 wrong ideas that one tries before finding the one brilliant idea. This is why patents are necessary for pharmaceutical research. Pharmaceutical research is basically a brute force search (start with compound; check how it interacts with other substances until you find a useful result; test side effects in live subjects). Reverse engineering is relatively easy in comparison.

    • Re:Two things. (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      And what is so unique about these disks other than the size?
      Surely the first patents on hdd tech have runout by now?

    • Re:Two things. (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because Seagate and WD haven't invested as much into R&D as you think.

      Cornice make tiny HD which are cheaper per meg compared to flash memory, which means multimedia, pda, phone, camera makers will be buying from the likes of Cornice and not Seagate.

      These are the very markets which are exploding right now but are limited by poor storage capacity.

    • I know how /.ers feel about software patents, but it is right to extend that attitude to the hardware sector? These aren't ones and zeroes, these are platters and heads. The materials cost actual money, and thousands of actual people depend on those materials to make their living. If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate.

      You've missed the point of most people's opposition to software patents. It's not that softwa

    • Re:Two things. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by JInterest ( 719959 )

      If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate. If there is no incentive for profit, most companies won't bother to make something.

      There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that patents are necessary to innovation, and there never has been. Check the literature, and you will find that inventors usually begin as people interested in solving a particular problem, not capitalists interested in filling their p

  • Cornice [corniceco.com] was founded by a former Maxtor VP, Kevin Magenis. Recently many employees came over [zdnet.co.uk] from now irrelavent/defunct Dataplay [dmusic.com] also local Colorado company.

    It would be highly interesting how the courts will sort our all the IP obtained through aquisition of employees, technology, etc.
    Colorado used to be a hot bed of storage technology but somewhere along the lines the 90s saw a consolidation and only the big guys seem to have a chance to play in the field. Surprisingly many of these companies got much

  • Seagate filed a claim with 6 infringements, Western Digital claims seven. So that a total of thirteen alleged patent violations but not even ONE has been specified.
    Since the 2 companies are patent holders, what could they possibly be afraid of by giving details? I smell a pre-emptive strike - Seagate will not have a 1-inch product for release until late this year and Western Digital isn't yet in this market.
    Let's all reserve judgment until the details are revealed.

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