Yahoo Anti-Spy Favors Yahoo's Adware Partners? 259
prostoalex writes "Yahoo's new browser toolbar is advertised to clean out adware and spyware from the user's PC and from the sound of it is a good tool to rely on. Not so, says eWeek, whose Matt Hicks notices that Yahoo excludes by default two popular adware/spyware applications - Claria (ex-Gator) and WhenU.com - Claria has commercial bonding with Yahoo! Inc."
Irony (Score:5, Funny)
Kekeke ^___^ (Score:2)
Next Headline (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Irony (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Irony (Score:5, Funny)
It's one way of making sure you have an exclusive story.
1. Do something naughty.
2. Report your naughtiness.
3. Profit!
My favorite part (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that if they really wanted to do something about these companies they could start by not accounting for 31% of their profits.
Re:My favorite part (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the part that people should be yelling about. Claria had $90 million of revenues in 2003, according to its S-1 statement. How can Yahoo/Overture give more than 28 million dollars to a company that treats consumers the way Claria does?
Re:Irony (Score:3, Insightful)
By then telling it on their OWN news story its liek saying.. yes its there, and making the world know that claira filtering is turned off by defult, so people turn
This is not a first (Score:5, Interesting)
Yahoo is not the first to pull this stunt. At one time, Norton Internet Security (I think it was NIS2000, specifically) had known holes in the firewall component for different spyware applications. After enough people pitched a fit, they have since closed those holes (supposedly).
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not quite the same as the system refusing to remove them, they're just in the category that isn't removed by default.
Re:This is not a first (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is not a first (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a substantial functional difference between not enabling adware filtering by default, and outright preventing adware filtering.
Both are lame, but at least the former gives a nod to the observant.
Actually that's probably a "COVER OUR ASSES"... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yahoo's lawyers obviously do. The fact that the "Adware" category isn't set for removal by default is Yahoo's fuckup - the fact that Gator is in that category is probably a decision made by their lawyers.
What's far more insidious is likely to be all the bots/spyware/trojans that will, by next week, be disabling this portion of Yahoo's product the moment they find it just like viruses go after virus scanners and several trojans spyware programs go after Ad-Aware/Spybot/etc already.
Can amount to the same thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is not a first (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, and about your sig;
What one GPL app is suing thousands of end users for sharing code? The whole point of the GPL is to give end users more rights then what copyright gives. Obviously you are just trolling and don't have a clue about the GPL. Please give one exam
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Here is the point you missed (Score:3, Insightful)
We get upset when hugely profitable companies steal stuff do other illegal stuff at the expense of worthy, under-paid programmers to make a profit on it.
We do not get upset when individuals ignore a corrupt law that tramples over fair-use rules in order to catch criminals that make NO monetary profit who are stealing from some of the most corrupt companies around.
The RIAA does not represent artists. It represents recording companies, producers etc. Have you SEEN
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember a day when WeatherBug was a cool application being sponsored by local TV stations who basically used it to promote the WeatherNet equipment that they had invested in. No popups, just a few ads that mostly linked you to the TV station's website and sometimes had a picture of the station's weather team. Of course, now that thing is a pop-up crazy monster. But how can you say on which day was the day that this program suddenly turned "evil"... it's not exactly a binary state.
It's hard to ban software such as WhenU because the users end up agreeing somewhere along the line to a AUP/TOS/EULA that lays out exactly what WhenU is going to do. We need better standards for how such documents are displayed, but we can't exactly prevent people from agreeing to them if they really want to without taking out some programs that we like such as ad-blockers in the process.
Really, this is a game of blury definitions...
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Insightful)
We can all tell the difference between the salvation army and a pawn shop.
Now if an app has a thousand ads attached to it but it makes you well aware that exposure to these ads is the "price" you pay for using it and you choose to continue using it anyway, then thats not evil, it is just an annoyance, and one that you have chosen to accept at that. If it secretly slips ads in after it is suppossedly a terminated process or if takes any action that cannot easily be stopped or that you were not made clearly aware of, then it's evil and it clearly smells evil (insert your "hey that sounds like windows" joke here).
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is not a first (Score:2, Funny)
I think it was a Tuesday, not very many people know that
If you don't get it, google for Animaniacs.
Re:This is not a first (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not Everyone Thinks Googles Principles are Perf (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This is not a first - even for Yahoo (Score:5, Insightful)
Fool me once...
Re:This is not a first (Score:3, Interesting)
Absolutely untrue (Score:5, Informative)
This is a great way to make a firewall usable for novices, but it had a flaw. It used the
A couple of people saw the preset rules when NIS was originally released and made the assumption that since they listed a bunch of programs, there must be spyware in there. This was not true, and the NIS team watched those new rules like a hawk to make sure that no bad guys got in.
How do I know this? Because I worked on NIS 2000 2.0 and had the privilege of leading the NIS 2001 through NIS 2004 quality assurance team.
FUD is not something that Microsoft has a monopoly on, as the parent post proves, well meaning but wrong end users can dish it out too.
Re:Absolutely untrue (Score:2, Informative)
This is wrong, NIS did not make holes in the firewall for spyware.
Oh? What was the purpose of the file "C:\Windows\Application Data\Symantec\Norton Internet Security\adserv.alc" that shipped with NIS2000, then? A whole lot of people out in the security usenet groups have some foul things to say about this file and the Radiate/Aureate spyware product...
Dear Users (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I install a "toolbar" to clean out spyware? Shouldn't I use an application dedicated to that?
-Letter
Re:Dear Users (Score:3, Insightful)
And that's to say nothing of the fact that switching from Windows to Linux to avoid spyware would be massive overkill. Plenty of easy to use, effective, and free anti-spyware Windows tools out there.
Re:Dear Users (Score:2)
This is a farce... (Score:5, Insightful)
This just shows yet another benefit of open source software. When a publicly traded corporation is solely behind the development of a closed product, don't be suprised when they try to protect their interests, at the consumer's expense.
Re:This is a farce... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is a farce... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think this is just a side effect of Claria's lawsuits going after any body who calls them bad names such as "spyware". Yahoo's willing to block them, but they don't exactly want to take on this legal fight.
Maybe the best compromise is to leave everything unblocked by default... and then the start-up wizard can allow users to click on the blocks one-by-one with a nice easy "select all" available if they'd rather bypass that step. Something along the lines of "Submitted for your approval... these are the programs that in our opinion are worth blocking, do you agree?"
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Yahoo? (Score:2)
As someone who uses yahoo mail occasionally (mostly for throw away email addresses) and now uses gmail, I think google's email will be considered far better than yahoo's once it is publically available. I'm curious to know if you've had a chance to use gmail and still feel yahoo is better.
puck
Re:Yahoo? (Score:2)
You haven't tryed MyRealBox [myrealbox.com], have you? Plus, MyRealBox is by Novell, who I suspect that most
Re:Yahoo? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Yahoo? (Score:5, Insightful)
I use:
Yahoo movies. Listings, reviews, etc.
maps.yahoo.com
yp.yahoo.com yellow pages
yahoo groups
yahoo mail (you can actually get *gasp* POP3)
yahoo's messenger does video and sound now.
and now they're using Overture's search tech to do web searches. Make no mistake about it, the Overture/Alltheweb.com system rivals google and beats it in a few places. When I can't find something with google I usually find it with Alltheweb.com.
I'd say yahoo is stronger than ever, a few years ago I thought they were going to fold. Granted, the shady practices aren't helping any, but they are far from Microsoftian ethics.
POP3 Yahoo email (Score:4, Insightful)
You can POP3 your Yahoo mail, but it requires paying $30/year. I want to do this, but am scared about the automatic renewal. There is no option to have it automatically stop at the expiration date. The consumer would not lose anything since the account would revert to the normal free webmail until another payment was received, and they could easily send reminders before and after the expiration.
I had Geocities and Yahoo mail. Geocities always allowed POP3. After Yahoo bought them, I merged the accounts and was able to POP3 from both accounts. Then Yahoo started charging. I received an email advertisement about the "new service" every time I tried to POP3.
I dislike that Yahoo's webmail does not work in Mozilla as well as MSIE. I wish they would hire some good standards-aware web developers. Their spam filter works very well, but did not work with POP3 the last time I used it. The spam would be in the Junk folder in webmail, but there was no option to exclude the Junk folder from POP3.
---
I use Yahoo's movie listings and their maps. Mapquest's maps do not appear in Mozilla (with my settings?), and Yahoo's maps do.
Re:POP3 Yahoo email (Score:3, Informative)
It's $19.99 per year. They send you at least one notice: [This is a notice to remind you that your Yahoo! POP Access and Forwarding service will automatically renew on 22-APR-03, and your Yahoo! Wallet will be charged the annual service fee of $19.99 on that date. This is 20% off the current regular price.] befo
POP3 vs IMAP (Score:4, Informative)
POP3 allows downloading your inbound mail to a local client. The only choice is whether to delete the mail from the server at the time of the download or let it remain on the server (useful when using a temporary client.)
IMAP replicates your entire mail file (email and folders) to clients. You use more space on the server and all clients, but your mail looks the same on all PCs.
If you only use one PC, then POP3 is fine. If you use one PC as the master, and occasionally want to check your mail from other PCs, then POP3 is fine. If you are putting your mail into another system that allows mail replication, then POP3 is good because it empties the other servers.
If you use multiple clients and want to maintain your folders, then either use that last option, or use IMAP.
---
I have mail pulled from several sources into my Lotus Notes mail file, which is then replicated between my home systems and several internet servers for redundant access from anywhere, including webmail. I use POP3 to pull the mail from all other systems. My mail database sorts it into folders depending on where it originated.
IMAP was designed to grant Notes-like abilities to email. If you want a distributed system and do not have Notes, then IMAP is a good alternative, as long as your mail servers support it. (Lotus Notes servers support webmail, POP3, IMAP, and Notes replication, so you can use your Notes infrastructure with every standards-based mail client.)
Re:Yahoo? (Score:2)
Given that you're still here, I take it that the use of Flash is the primary reason?
Re:Yahoo? (Score:4, Informative)
In a word, yes. Yahoo is still one of the most popular sites [alexa.com] on the Internet, even if you don't think so.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Figures. (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
If true... (Score:2)
If this turns out to be true, then Yahoo! is a bunch of scumbags.
However, given the nature of recent Slashdot stories, my skeptic-radar is on high alert (Alert Level Orange for you youngsters out there).
Yep (Score:5, Informative)
And Spy-Bot (Score:4, Informative)
Alarming or Business As Usual? (Score:3, Insightful)
And how long? How long before we start seeing Anti-Spam filters have built-in mechanism to let associates' spam emails through, even if you blacklisted them.
Re:Alarming or Business As Usual? (Score:3, Insightful)
no surprise (Score:2, Insightful)
Only impacts Microsoft Windows users (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Only impacts Microsoft Windows users (Score:5, Interesting)
The other 2 actually manipulated the Mozilla DOM, and as they were written in java, they can work just fine in OS X, or Linux.
Re:Only impacts Microsoft Windows users (Score:2)
Re:Only impacts Microsoft Windows users (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only impacts Microsoft Windows users (Score:3, Insightful)
- 95% of desktop users
- 4% of desktop users
- 1% of desktop users
And, would it be more efficent to:
- Spend money on getting your crapware in more products
- Spend money on porting your crapware so you can reach the other 5%
Now, Windows has some fault (the "drive-by-download" flaw in IE, thankfully corrected in SP2), but the reason that Spyware is written for Windows is that it is the easiest way to reach the broadest audience.
Trust me, whether or not
Is anyone surprised? (Score:2, Interesting)
Gotta say it... (Score:3, Funny)
2) Team up with Yahoo!
3) ???
4) Profit!
Yahoo! Mail Spam Filter (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait a tick! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wait a tick! (Score:2)
Re:Wait a tick! (Score:3, Interesting)
Well... it is a proprietary closed source program (Score:3, Interesting)
As a matter of fact,I find hilarious that one justifies that his own computer is "clean from spyware" because he runs a closed source gratis program.
Indeed, it is self-contradictory to run a closed-source program of this nature, just as it is at least risky run a closed source program of any nature if one is concerned about spyware/leechware/trojans/viruses at all.
So what? You should be using multiple tools anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
Some antivirus or anti-spam software may not detect a virus/spam that its competitors do, but the next day the situation is reversed. Which one is better? Ditto anti-Spyware. Install the Yahoo toolbar if you think it will help. You should still use other tools though.
If the suspicions raised in the article are true however, I do think there is an ethical question here that should play some part in your decision.
Re:So what? You should be using multiple tools any (Score:2)
This is NOT the case with plenty of spyware.
Damn, I was hoping (Score:3, Funny)
For those who don't read the article. (Score:5, Insightful)
The toolbar will block them, it requires users clicking on a checkbox somewhere in the options. This makes it just a bit less sleazy.
And, (Score:5, Funny)
Additionally: In a desperate attempt to fuel Yahoo's status as a search engine, the new Yahoo! toolbar blocks google.com via the hosts file...
Or not.. :)
spyware vs. adware vs. software (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike viruses or worms, it's not at all clear where the line is between "good" and "bad." It may be that Claria has a valid business model, in which case they have a strong case that their software shouldn't be lumped in with the likes of clientman, or other truly nasty spyware. Certainly, their business model is not illegal today. (Of course, I personally don't like it, and would never use their software.)
Should Yahoo include "windows update" or "redhat update network" in their list of spyware?
Re:EULA (Score:3, Interesting)
This also bleeds into the issue that people have with EULAs: No one ever reads them.
The GAIN Trickler and other similar programs are very often installed legally and volutarily by users themselves. Oftentimes installing the software is predicated upon accepting these "malicious" programs. If a user has in fact agreed to install software, it may be (and yes, I'm playing the devil's advocate here) a perfectly logical step to avoid uninstalling it.
Imagine if the toolbar uninstalled program updates, patches
Re:spyware vs. adware vs. software (Score:3, Insightful)
Simple. I can manually install and uninstall software - no hiding behind cryptic EULAs or piggy-backed with another app. When I'm not telling windows update to run, it's not running, same for redhat update network. That's not the case with spyware.
If Claria wants to claim to have a "valid business model", they can put out an app that I can download and install on my own if I want to. Until that time, t
Re:spyware vs. adware vs. software (Score:2, Interesting)
Unlike viruses or worms, it's not at all clear where the line is between "good" and "bad."
Personally, I draw the line in the "Add/Remove Software" control panel. If the app has a clear definition and can be removed as easily as a legit piece of software, then it is alright by me. (This also implies that it was voluntarly installed as any other piece of software, i.e. went to download.com or similar place and selected the software based on an honest description to fill a users need.) I have no idea why s
Re:spyware vs. adware vs. software (Score:3, Insightful)
Stealing someone's car (because they didnt' read the fine print and agreed to it in an obscure line where they signed a credit card slip when buying groceries) and turning the windshield in
Spyware/Adaware is out of control (Score:4, Insightful)
In addition to this, I cannot count the number of times family members or neighbors have called me up asking for me to help them remove TONS of this junk from their machines. Its even worse when you have to update software just to remove the junk that has been installed. Some of these applications even force you to install other software to remove the offending software. This is ridiculous.
People trust Yahoo. For Yahoo to put a program out there on the market, and do this kind of thing on purpose? That is a pretty crappy thing for a company to do. I have lost what little respect I had for Yahoo..
Cyris
What goes around, comes around.
Insidious, sure... (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course it also means there's one more IE toolbar onto our 'banned' forever list. we used to allow the yahoo toolbar. >sigh
This toolbar sounds great!! (Score:3, Funny)
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
It found Claria and removed it for me (Score:4, Informative)
What I am I doing right/wrong?
Decent anti-spyware (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda makes spyware apps useless if they have to spend $$$ on extra bandwidth to handle the new data and $$$ on CPU Cycles to sort through the Krud.
hehe - and then watch as a new business of "anti-flood" filters are built for the spying companies!
That wouldn't work (Score:2)
You have to start a company for it to be legal. Duh.
Spyware has ruined a whole sector of free software (Score:5, Insightful)
Felix is the last amusement applet I will ever let my mom run. I only let her run it now because it predates spyware being trojaned into these little applets. Today, I don't trust ANY fun/amusing "applet" because IMO they all potentially carry a spyware payload.
Sadly, I have noticed that this trend of spyware payloads has begun to move itself into mildly useful, free utitlity applets as well -- I have heard of a weather reporting applet and a time server synchronization applet carrying nasty payloads. I suppose it won't be much longer before the majority of nifty utilities from places like tucows.com are suspect.
I think sometimes that we live in sad times.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Can I speak for everybody (Score:3, Insightful)
LS
Is it possible that... (Score:2, Interesting)
does not favor Yahoo's partners (Score:4, Insightful)
more FUD this week than I've seen all last month,
maybe all year.
The tool does not favor "Yahoo's partners", as a
*30 second skim* of the f'in article tells you.
It simply doesn't scan adware by default. If
you click the box to scan adware, it does detect
Yahoo's partners products. The article isn't
clear on whether the product removes the adware.
The controversial part, read carefully now, is
that it detects *spyware* by default. It's
*adware* that isn't detected by default. They
shouldn't do one and not the other. I'm sure
I speak for all consumers here when I say, no
consumer, not a one, cares about the distinction.
(And the distinction is fuzzy at best anyway.)
Their product favors "adware", and some "adware"
producers are Yahoo partners. It's not as if,
like the slashdot article tries to imply, that
some adware is detected but not Yahoo's partners'.
Re:does not favor Yahoo's partners (Score:4, Informative)
that it detects *spyware* by default. It's
*adware* that isn't detected by default. They
shouldn't do one and not the other.
No, the controversial part is that some code which is clearly spyware is labelled adware, which is then not detected by default.
The code in question is Gator, which is definitely spyware (It's about the most famous spyware out there!) and GAIN. GAIN is arguably adware, but according to the article it's classified as spyware by PestPatrol, the people who make the engine for the Yahoo toolbar. This suggests that Yahoo changed it to adware.
Putting your business partners' code into the "not cleaned by default" section when it shouldn't be certainly does qualify as favoring those partners!
No need for spy/ad-ware removal tool... (Score:4, Insightful)
People get spy/ad-ware by doing stuff on the net. It's like walking in desert and finding oneself being thirsty but alas no water to drink.
Anti malware tools are like that water in the desert. Byt who the heck told you to go into that desert.
If you don't know what will happen from "yes", don't click on it. Preferably don't even click on "no". Kill the process
Off-topic? Goes with the motive, your honor...
(Nightshift and nothing to do, I admit)
Re:No need for spy/ad-ware removal tool... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not true. I personally managed to get adware on my system through bearshare before adware became as well known as it is. While you can only take my word for it, I do know
News Flash... (Score:2, Funny)
yawn.
I think this is what Google meant when they said (Score:2)
Dear God (Score:4, Interesting)
To keep my piece of mind,
And with life's cares, I hope, Dear God,
Some happiness to find.
Let me google but for today,
Not worrying 'bout Ads ahead,
For I have trust that You will see
Gator and friends, all of them dead
Give me the courage to face the web's trials
And not from adware or spyware run,
Let me keep this thought in mind,
"My will, not Yahoo's, be done."
Oh I miss the yahoo I knew.
http://web.archive.org/web/19970201021647/
Anybody remember AllAdvantage? (Score:4, Informative)
Sure, this was adware to the nth degree... but all of the users either knew or should have known what they were getting themselves into and they were on the financial take for their part in the scheme.
Of course, the major anti-malware products weren't around back then to weigh in on their opinions on these things. But, it's an interesting call. Nobody was ever tricked into installing this program, so would it be the duty of an anti-malware program to attack such a program, or just let it be?
Re:Anybody remember AllAdvantage? (Score:2)
Link to original eWeek article (Score:3, Informative)
In its spyware-fighting tool released in beta last week, Yahoo Inc. left out for automatic detection a category of often-unwanted software for which its paid search division has a financial stake. Yahoo's Anti-Spy beta for its browser toolbar doesn't include adware by default when it scans users' systems for unwanted programs.
[ ... ]
Among the programs the Sunnyvale, Calif., company classifies as adware are controversial ones from Claria Corp. (formerly The Gator Corp.) and WhenU.com Inc., two common targets of spyware critics who say the companies trick users into accepting unwanted downloads and flood machines with pop-up ads.
With Claria, best known for its Gator eWallet application, Yahoo is also a business partner. Claria, based in Redwood City, Calif., delivers pop-up and other forms of advertising from its GAIN ad network through software downloaded onto users' machines.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Or you can just click "Also scan for adware" (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a screenshot that shows how simple it is to remove adware using the tool.
Yahoo Anti-Spy [amysrobot.com]
The article makes it sound like you have to go clicking through a bunch of option screens, but the truth is that removing adware is exactly one click more complex that simply running the program.
You guys are so ready to excoriate Yahoo, but all they've done is provide a free, easy-to-use tool for common users to delete crap from their computers. So what if they rely on the user to click *one cleary labeled check box* to delete software created by Yahoo's own business partners?
Keep in mind that the program has no negative side effects...even according to the progam's critics, its worst sin is a sin of omission.
The Solution is Simple (Score:3, Interesting)
But how come, when people install these things, they don't just do the nearest thing to what I would do when installing a package with functionality I didn't want: edit the source code with whatever Windows has instead of vi, and comment out all the spyware-ish bits, before they do whatever Windows does instead of make? Maybe they could even do whatever Windows does instead of diff to create a patch, and offer that for download from their own site.
If people aren't smart enough to do that, they probably deserve the consequences.
DOES NOT SUPRISE ME!!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Now with that said the reason it doesn't suprise me is cause of an incident i had with Yahoo! mail's spam blocker quite a few months ago.
1. They have by default in a setting list thats not really related to your e-mail account a list of ON BY DEFAULT e-mail ad lists that you get put on. In their defense
2. This is the Kicker. I started getting some other e-mails from Yahoo.com affiliates and themselves. I was kinda suprised it didnt come up in spam bin, cause it wasn't really obvious it was from yahoo. I was confused
After this incident i rooted around on yahoo's website
So since then.. i've never gotten anything from yahoo like that... either 1. they put me on a special list so i don't get it