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United States Government The Courts Your Rights Online News

Two Congressmen Push for DMCA Amendments 488

silicon not in the v writes "Rep Rick Boucher, D-Va, is proposing a bill to amend the DMCA to specifically allow copying digital media for the purpose of personal backups. This is, of course, being fought hard by the content lobbies, most significantly the MPAA for its potential for bootlegging DVDs. Here was my favorite quote: 'There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever,' said Fritz Attaway, executive vice president of the MPAA." See also stories from the Associated Press and CNet.
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Two Congressmen Push for DMCA Amendments

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  • by erick99 ( 743982 ) * <homerun@gmail.com> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:35PM (#9141519)
    If the manufacturers who produce the movie DVD's that I buy could GUARANTEE that the disc was virtually indestructable - that an errant scratch wouldn't ruin my $30 movie, then I might find it hard to defend software that copies that movie. But, I have eaten way too much money from DVD's and software discs as well, that died from scratches and other surface anomalies. I don't pretend to fully understand the laws that governs who owns what on my DVD. But, I do understand that if my disc is scratched, no one is going to give me another copy. However, I could make a backup copy and store it to protect myself. And, indeed, I do that now. I backup everything with DVD Shrink and they go into a special DVD book of all of my movies.

    Happy Trails!

    Erick

    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:39PM (#9141583)
      no offense, but virtually, my ass! If I'm buying the right to watch a move (as in license) in perpetuity, and I'm not allowed to transfer that movie to other media for backup purpouses, then as soon as the thing breaks, for the rest of eternity, I want a replacement. Period.
      • by RLW ( 662014 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:53PM (#9141800)
        I don't want it for backups. I want to make a movie library on my PC that I can play back by selecting from a menu list. Who wants to fumble around for the DVD cases and get up off the couch? I can't wait to get one of those Sony 7 video in/out + 1 TB storage PCs. Now what I want is a way to input all of may Satellite receivers and re-route the signal to any TV in the house and to have the ability to change which receiver that TV is watching as well an change what channel the receiver is tuned in to.

        Anyway I would just make a copy on the PC and put the disk in the closet just in case my drive crashes.
    • by (54)T-Dub ( 642521 ) * <tpaine.gmail@com> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:39PM (#9141595) Journal
      My favorite quote:
      "It's against consumers' interests to permit devices that make backup copies," he added, "because there is no way that a device can distinguish between a backup copy for personal use and making a copy for friends, family acquaintances or even selling on the street corner."
      (rollseyes)

      Oh yeah, that is definately against my interests.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:53PM (#9141803)
        Saying things like "It's against the consumers' interest" is just some form of IP-lawyer tourettes; it's just instinctive, they can't help saying it, even if it makes no sense at all. We should start a support group.
      • Furthermore (Score:5, Funny)

        by namespan ( 225296 ) <namespan@el3.1415926itemail.org minus pi> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:34PM (#9142330) Journal
        Furthermore, it is against consumer interests because:

        (1) using more writeable DVDs will drive up the price of writeable DVDs, and *then* where will you be?
        (2) more writeable DVDs will increase the reflective potential of the earth, contributing even further to global dimming
        (3) your friends may choose to watch your movies *without you* because, hey, you've got two copies, they only need one, not you.

        I for one, applaud the effort of the MPAA to protect our interests, even if they cannot actually make films that can hold them more than 10% of the time.
      • by SoopahMan ( 706062 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @03:09PM (#9143466)
        This quote by the MPAA is incredible:
        These products like 321 [backup software] allow people to be free riders ... It raises the prices for legitimate copies and it also reduces the availability of the copies.
        Absolutely. I mean, just look at the way CD prices have shot up since MP3 trading became popular. Wait - CD prices were on a steady rise until it was popular, then the RIAA lowered prices from $21 to $13 a CD once MP3s were rampant. Hmmmm. Well - the availability argument is definitely true. I mean, if I go to Strawberries I'll definitely find a CD with Nine Inch Nails' "The Mark Has Been Made," live. No, hm, I can't seem to find it there... well I'll definitely never find it on Kaz- oh wait, here it is. Hm.
    • by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:40PM (#9141605)
      "I might find it hard to defend software that copies that movie"

      How about so I can copy my DVD(s) to my HDD on my laptop so I don't have to carry around a bunch of DVDs which might get lost, stolen, or damaged while traveling?

    • by OS24Ever ( 245667 ) * <trekkie@nomorestars.com> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:43PM (#9141663) Homepage Journal
      Sell DVDs with tons of kids movies, said kids destroy DVDs and scream at their parents until they buy it again.

      At least that is how my 2 yr old viewed it when she 'put the movie in' between the DVD player and the TiVo and scratched up Finding Nemo.

      Good night she can whine more than a slashdot user that doesn't RTFA... so we have two copies of Nemo because I can legitimately back the thing up
    • by Jim_Maryland ( 718224 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:50PM (#9141753)
      Also consider that as technology changes, you may have to convert older formats to new. Imagine your favorite movie that you originally bought on VHS, then bought on DVD, and eventually buy on . You should only have to purchase the content once.
      • by potus98 ( 741836 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:55PM (#9141823) Journal

        "Mwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa! That's what you think mere mortal! Wait until I re-re-re-release the original trilogy with 8.5 seconds of additional Ewok footage, 26 additional seconds of ending credits, AND 2 cantina shots with digitially modified whiskers on the third alien at the back table!"

        "You will submit to my marketing prowess! You cannot resist the power of the marketing side!"

        -George Lucas

      • by druxton ( 166270 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:01PM (#9141916)
        You should only have to purchase the content once.

        That's my pet peeve with the music and movie (and to some extent proprietary software) industries. What am I paying for when I buy a CD or DVD? If it is a license to their intellectual property, then I darn well have the right to copy and use it anyway I like, including downloading digital copies of vinyl originals. If it's the physical media with a particular series of bits, then it should come with a warranty and I should be able to copy it - if I buy a car and machine the parts to create an exact replica, Chevy can't come after me for that. If it's both, then they should replace the media for a nominal fee if it is damaged, since I have already paid for the intellectual property component.
        • Chevy can't come after me for that.

          Wrong.
          Every Chevy car has patents stamped all over the place. You can not just look at the design of the car and make your own copy out of a raw materials. Well, you will probably get away with making it, but not selling it. However, you can always license all the patents, usually by bying the components from GM.
    • by Anonymous Custard ( 587661 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:12PM (#9142050) Homepage Journal
      Software companies used to do this. If your CD got too scratched up or even if you lost a CD, you jsut had to send in the first page of the manual or something to prove you owned it, alogn with the damaged CD, and they'd send you a replacement.

      How come movie companies don't do this; replace damaged discs?

      Did I buy the disc, or did I buy a license to make personal use of the movie on the disc, and the disc is just the transport mechanism?
  • by digitalvengeance ( 722523 ) * on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:35PM (#9141520)
    From the article:
    There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever

    EFF has this to say on the issue:

    Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:

    * Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
    * Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.

    (Emphasis mine)
    So, the issue is not completely settled, yet. Let's hope that legislation such as those proposed can help settle this matter and take the MPAA down a notch.

    Source: http://eff.org/IP//eff_fair_use_faq.html [eff.org]
    More Info: http://eff.org/IP/ [eff.org]

    Josh.
    • by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:30PM (#9142273)
      There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever.
      A couple points:

      first, why does it matter whether the right was previously in copyright law? Wouldn't the point of the new law be to do just that?

      Second, what is not illegal is legal. It would be nice to have a law explicitly protecting copies for valid purposes, but I would settle for repealing the law that currently makes this a crime.

      It's kind of a bizarre setup we have, let me see if I get this straight:

      1) Copy music CDs for personal use: legal
      2) Copy game CDs for personal use: illegal
      2) Copy TV shows for personal use: legal
      3) Copy DVDs for personal use: illegal

      Please correct me if I'm wrong!

      • by mgpeter ( 132079 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @02:43PM (#9143195) Homepage
        It's not just DVDs, they believe that with ANY digital content (that needs to create a copy of itself in order to play), it should be illegal to make backup copies. Here is why (in their lawyeristic minds anyway).

        In the 1909 Copyright ammendment, there was a stipulation that regulated ANY copies of copyrighted work. Before this the law only covered any copies that were either published or distributed. So, instead of having unregulated rights to create personal copies, there is a fair use right to have the ability to create a backup of copyrighted work.

        Here is where it gets interesting, they found a loophole in the copyright act in reguards to digital content - according to the copyright "owners" when you access something that is in digital content, whether it be a DVD, mp3 file, Internet webpage, software program, etc. The device changing it from digital into something that a person can view must make a copy of the digital content "in memory" in order to process the content.

        So when you watch a DVD movie, the DVD player reads the encrypted digital content from the disk, converts it into something that will be output to the TV (making a copy). Thus, when you make a copy of a DVD, the player would then make a copy of a copy which is not legal unless given permission from the content owner (fat chance).

        If you want an in depth explanation of this read the book "Free Culture" by Lawrence Lessig (www.free-culture.cc).

        As far as I can understand, this is the only way software companies can get away with bypassing copyright law and use EULAs when distributing their software with all sorts of restrictions, some even un-constitutional (allowing search and seizure with a court order).

        Anyway, until the Copyright Act includes unregulated copying to allow viewing of the copyright contents, I believe the courts would probably rule that you cannot make a backup of a Digital work, just because everyone is so worried about the letter of the law instead of the intent of the law.
  • by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) * on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:36PM (#9141538) Journal
    He is one of the few members of Congress who actually gets it. He consistently comes up with workable solutions for the consumer.
    Maybe it's because he's not a well paid off lapdog like DMCA originator Orrin Hatch who so far this year has taken over $157,000 from the TV/Music/Movies industry [opensecrets.org] (It's only May for crying out loud!)

    Insert Jack Valenti "Boston Strangler" reference here.
  • by Slime-dogg ( 120473 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:36PM (#9141546) Journal

    Copyright law defines what we can't do, not what we can do. If a "right" isn't defined, then it is assumed to be legal. This guy needs a swirly.

    • You're Confused (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MarcQuadra ( 129430 ) * on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:50PM (#9141754)
      I'm afraid you're confused. On 9/12/2001 the USA officially switched from a 'freedom to' model to the less terror-friendly 'freedom from' model.

      Please stop thinking you can do anything besides work, sleep, and consume; it's making the others think twice.

      Any more from you and it's off to Guantanamo for state-enforced vacation.

      Have a nice day! And watch that parcel!
    • *sigh*

      Copyright law says "owner gets to decide who makes copies."

      Fair Use is a legislative or judicial allowance for copyright infringement. When I quote your book in a review of said book, I'm committing copyright infringement--it's just legal infringement.

      For copyright, only those exceptions to the right to decide who can make copies which can be argued in court are the ones we have.

      This is a fundamentally necessary aspect of our law. Liberty means nothing without accountability and freedom. Ergo,
      • When I quote your book in a review of said book, I'm committing copyright infringement--it's just legal infringement.

        Actually, this is not the case. "legal infringement" is contradictory, as infringement WRT copyright law means illegal. If a copy is decided to be "fair use", then it is by definition not infringement.

    • by Rupert ( 28001 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:54PM (#9141812) Homepage Journal
      If a "right" isn't defined, then it is assumed to be legal

      You're new here[*], aren't you?

      [*] Slashdot or America. Take your pick.
  • by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:38PM (#9141571)
    This is a damning indictment of the MPAA and illustrates their contempt for their customers. We're not all crooks and pirates and to pretend that the MPAA has some God given right to demand restrictions on our freedom to support their business model gets things completely backwards.
  • Rick Boucher (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The Ape With No Name ( 213531 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:40PM (#9141601) Homepage
    I worked on one of his campaigns while in college in Virginia. One smart dude and a certified tech interest guy. Keeps his constituents happy and his politics liberal/libertarian (with the little l).
  • by isaac ( 2852 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:40PM (#9141606)
    This bill isn't going anywhere. The consumer protection subcommittee (where this is being introduced) has no jurisdiction over copyright law, meaning this will never make it to the House floor.

    -Isaac
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I don't see where copyrights enter into it. This is clearly fair use. People aren't selling their DVD backups, this is for PERSONAL USE. People are legally able to do this with VHS, and VHS probably lasts longer than DVDs/CDs. The DMCA appears to outlaw DVD backups because of the encryption aspect of the CSS that is used.

      The DMCA is broken. Rep. Boucher isn't trying to change copyright law, he's trying to fix a broken amendment.

    • by Mr Smidge ( 668120 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:55PM (#9141829) Homepage
      Do these amendments also include those rights to be able to circumvent digital restrictions code in order to exercise one's fair use rights?
    • Making it to the house floor has nothing to do with "jurisdiction" of a committee, and everything to do with what the House Rules Committee says. What committee the bill is in at any given time doesn't matter that much. In the US House of Representatives, when a bill is debated, what committees (and how many) that bill is shuffled to, how much debate will be on the bill, even the number of offered ammdenmdents, are all decided by the House Rules Committee.

      The Rules Committee can shuffle a bill to any n
  • Vocal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mmca ( 180858 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:40PM (#9141615) Homepage
    Dont just post here. Write your reps and congressmen.

    House [house.gov]
    Senate [senate.gov]

    We need to show them that this is something that people care about. Sure we dont have Disney dollars, but we can still make some noise.
    • Re:Vocal (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jgs ( 245596 )
      Hear, hear.

      If you're too lazy|busy|whatever to write your own letter, here's [eff.org] your source for the click-to-send version. Sure, it's probably not as good as writing your own, but it's way better than doing nothing. (I do wish the EFF would give me a way to tell them I'd written, without forcing me to use their form letter.)

      For extra credit, vote with your wallet: put a donation in an envelope and send it to Rep. Boucher along with a thank-you note. A Slashdot's worth of $5 donations might be an interesti
  • by Dieppe ( 668614 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:41PM (#9141620) Homepage
    Well, from the standpoint that you could make a "backup" of a book (hardbound or paperback) it's not as feasible to backup a book, but a CD or DVD you could.

    Consider that a disk that runs the risk of being easily scratched (whatever happened to those "indestructable CDs" that we heard about so much in the 80's?) should be able to be backed up... one would think.

    OR they should have some sort of process where, if you have a CD or DVD that is scratched and you can't play, you can send it in and for FREE get another copy. You purchased the "license" for it, after all.

    But wait, I forget. They'd rather have media that slowly self-destructs over time or use so that every 10 years (or less) you need to rebuy your collection. Backups are for wussies after all! :)

    Either way, I want a product that lasts if I'm going to pay good money for it. If it's not going to last, I want to be able to make a backup of it so that my "investment" isn't lost.

    (Wait, I'm sorry, this is the proverbial "choir" right? ;) )

    • From the Disney website [go.com]:

      If you accidentally damage or break one of your Disney DVDs, you can get a replacement disc for a nominal charge of $10. Please call (800) 723-4763 for details.

      Not free, but better than nothing!

      • What a bargain -- a whole $2 less than the discount bin DVD's that are being sold at a loss. I bet that's "shipping & handling" extra, too.

        Having tried to obtain replacements for damaged media, I can guarantee you'll eventually run into everyone's favourite problem: out of stock. No longer in pressing/print. We can sell you the new extended edition for only double the price, but that's not a replacement so it's not free or discounted.

  • by cube_slave ( 765396 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:42PM (#9141629) Homepage
    " But movie and music executives warned that the proposal would strip their industries of important tools to limit piracy. The head of the Motion Picture Association of America, Jack Valenti, showed lawmakers a copy of the DVD mystery "Runaway Jury" he said was purchased on the black market in downtown Washington and produced using 321's disputed software. Valenti said the bill "legalizes hacking."

    Just more Valenti FUD. If you want to limit "piracy" why not write better tools instead of making it a crime to alter your own hardware. I also didn't realize that hacking was illegal... Is the American public really dumb enough to believe the only purpose of DVD copies is to profit?

  • by CatGrep ( 707480 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:42PM (#9141631)
    'There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever,' said Fritz Attaway executive vice president of the MPAA.

    Why is it that the name Fritz Attaway just seems like what an executive VP from the MPAA should be named. If this were a fictional movie, you'd be hardpressed to come up with a better name.
  • Enough! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by carvalhao ( 774969 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:43PM (#9141652) Journal

    I'm a die hard Red Hot Chilli Peppers fan and, befora I had a CD recorder, I ruined 2 original copies of one of their albuns.

    Recently, I ruined the third. This time, I had the recorder but was too damn lazy or stupid to have made a backup.

    I dare any law enforcement agency to arrest me for getting their MP3 out of the Internet when I have 3 useless original CD casings!!! If that's not fair use, call me unfair!!!

  • Wow (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JaffaKREE ( 766802 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:43PM (#9141658)
    WASHINGTON -- Some lawmakers are introducing a bill that Hollywood is not happy about -- one that would allow consumers to make personal copies of digital entertainment like DVDs to be played on whatever device they want.

    Gee, what a CRAZY idea, that I actually have the right to watch the $24.99 DVD I bought. For whatever reason, Macrovision absolutely owns my TV, even on legally purchased DVDs (the high and low color changes on Futurama were UN-friggin-believable). I already have to rip and re-burn them just to watch them, or use a macro-scrubber. This is a step in the right direction. Maybe someday I'll be able to watch the originals.

  • by pjrc ( 134994 ) <paul@pjrc.com> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:46PM (#9141704) Homepage Journal
    This arguement is a classic example of logical fallacy term begging the question [nizkor.org] really means:

    There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever

    In the context of a proposed change to a law, the fact that the law does not specifically enumerate a right today is the matter in question... is not proof that no such right ought to be specifically added.

    For those who post using the term "begs the question" to means that a question is merely raised, please take note. Begging the question is the logical fallacy where the matter at hand is assumed to be true (or in the favor the arguing party desires) and then taken as accepted fact.

    In this case, it's OBVIOUS that copyright law doesn't specifically mention the right to make backup copies of DVDs. If it did, the discussion at hand would not be whether to make an amendment to add such a clause. Trying to use this obvious fact that such language is missing today, without any other reasoning, as ground that is should not be added is a clear case of begging the question.

    • For those who post using the term "begs the question" to means that a question is merely raised, please take note. Begging the question is the logical fallacy where the matter at hand is assumed to be true (or in the favor the arguing party desires) and then taken as accepted fact.

      The legitimate reason to be a bit of a usage nazi is this: when people misuse a phrase, it becomes unusable for its original purpose. This impovershes the language.

      However, at a certain point, the battle is lost. When you ha
  • by Finuvir ( 596566 ) <rparle@soylent[ ].net ['red' in gap]> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:49PM (#9141744) Homepage
    It's not specifically mentioned in any of the articles but I would imagine that the (proposed) right to make backup copies of DVDs would extend to a right to decrypt DVDs for any other legal reason, including watching DVDs under Linux (which requires cracking the encryption). Can anyone shed any light on this? Is is purely for making copies or does it allow for other decryption-requiring activities?
    • Can anyone shed any light on this? Is is purely for making copies or does it allow for other decryption-requiring activities?

      Certainly! As I understood the executive summary of the bill, it covers what your average slashdotter would consider "fair use" i.e. making backups but also converting the media to another format or decrypting it for personal use.

      There is a well-worded form letter [eff.org] that you can fill out and have emailed or faxed to your US Representative urging them to support the bill. (Automated to

  • by Jonny Royale ( 62364 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:49PM (#9141746) Homepage Journal
    'There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever

    This is a half accurrate statement (the best kind). In the copyright law iself, if read word for word, and taken literally, there's no right explicity granted for backups...which is why we have a judicial system, to interpret the meaning of the law from the text. IIRC, there have been numerous judicial rulings on the right of people to make backup copies of the movies they buy.

    It's suprising that the MPAA, which relys so heavily on the judicial system to enforce these laws, would then so conveniently forget it exists when neccessary to make a point.
  • by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:49PM (#9141747) Journal
    I dont know about fair use rights, but i do know that i have the right to do whatever i want in my own home with something ive legally purchased (apart from obvious things like building nuclear reactors or using a dvd as murder weapon). Now you might argue that this law doesnt exist, but i think you'll find it right next to the law that says "people have common sense freedoms so suck my dick" this is also in the same section of the law that quite clearly states "you are not the only people who can make films so dont act like you're selling something we would die without, infact these days you shouldnt even be acting at all, you suck"
    • by roystgnr ( 4015 )
      I dont know about fair use rights, but i do know that i have the right to do whatever i want in my own home with something ive legally purchased (apart from obvious things like building nuclear reactors or using a dvd as murder weapon). Now you might argue that this law doesnt exist, but i think you'll find it right next to the law that says "people have common sense freedoms so suck my dick"

      This is technically correct, but seems to be worded for Slashdot readers rather than a more appropriate audience.
  • by Deitheres ( 98368 ) <brutalentropy.gmail@com> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:51PM (#9141778)
    You know, this is getting ridiculous. When you buy a movie (DVD), ~$1.50 is going towards the actual cost of the media. The remaining ~$18.50 is you, the consumer, purchasing in-home viewing rights from the creator, the studio. You are not allowed to show it in a movie theater, etc etc... The thing that I don't understand is that, if you ruin your movie (sunlight, scratches, etc), you have to repurchase the movie including the rights to view it. I already paid for those rights. If anything, there should be a system where you return a ruined movie, and all you have to pay for is the cost of the media. That should be the worst case scenario. Even that, in my opinion, is a bit draconian.

    The RIAA and MPAA need to realize that there is nothing wrong with making a backup copy of something. It is the way the world works-- important things are archived and backed up. I do think that allowing backups does lend itself to piracy, but that is a side-effect that will not go away. People will pirate movies and music no matter what you do. You have to allow for people to make copies of things they have already purchased personal rights to, because you can't guarantee that that movie or CD will last forever (in fact, we know they won't). DRM attempts to nullify this to a degree by allowing (mostly) songs at this point to be kept in digital format, but they limit the amount of copies that can be made. I think that is ridiculous as well-- if I want to make 10 copies of a CD I should be allowed to with no questions asked. I want one for the CD players in my bathroom, bedroom, home office, basement, kitchen, car, bike, office, and hell I want one as a frisbie.

    But they disagree with us, and they will be the ones winning unless more people like Rep Rick Boucher take the plate for the "little guys."
    • Don't forget, you never purchase the DVD directly from the production company itself. The DVD must go through channels, as this is an easier model of doing business.

      So no, the ~$18.50 is not all going to the studio. Some of that goes to the retail outlet where you purchased it, some went to the warehouse which stored it, some went to the distributor who shipped it to the warehouses across the nation . . .

      All in all, probably only 1/4 to 1/3 of the retail price of a DVD goes back to the original production
    • I do think that allowing backups does lend itself to piracy, but that is a side-effect that will not go away. People will pirate movies and music no matter what you do.

      Legislation requiring easy DVD decoding and copying will help the average consumer. In terms of piracy, I don't think the MPAA is really worried about you buying a disc and giving a copy to your friend. They're worried about the guys that push out a couple thousand discs a day through automated machines and sell them...

      Those guys are wil
  • by ducomputergeek ( 595742 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:52PM (#9141786)
    There is prior case for allowing such back ups. The Home Recording Act of 1992 Read it here [virtualrecordings.com]

    I am pretty sure there is another law out there that states basically, "Once its inside your home, you can do what ever you want." It may have been court ruling as well. If you want to make a copy for every CD/DVD player in your home, it should be legal. If not, I am pretty damn sure it comes close under "fair use" clause.

    Now selling those copies on the street corner is illeagal in anyone's book. And giving buddy Joe a copy also boarders on that as well.

    I think their biggest fear is of people renting the movie and making a copy. However this practice has been in play for years with VCRs. One of my friends still has the double decker VCR just for that purpose.

  • EFF and DMCRA (Score:5, Informative)

    by forevermore ( 582201 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:53PM (#9141801) Homepage
    I believe that this is the DMCRA bill, and the EFF has a contact form [eff.org] all filled out and ready to be faxed (remember, it's a lot easier to ignore an email than a fax) to your local representative. I also copied and slightly modified this text and sent it to my state senators.

    This bill not only allows for making backups, but would require that copy protected so-called CD's be properly labeled as such, and would allow people who own encrypted media (say, a DVD) to bypass the copy protection in order to view it (say, in GNU/Linux).

  • Next I suppose (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Orion Blastar ( 457579 ) <orionblastar@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:54PM (#9141820) Homepage Journal
    we cannot backup commercial software? My Windows XP Pro Corp edition disk always gets scratched, if I did not make a backup copy it would have been costing me more money to buy another copy. I do not think that Microsoft replaces disks anymore, last time I tried I was told to buy another copy.

    My Visual BASIC 3.0 floppy disks suffered from bit-rott, and are unusable. I was going to make a old 386 with WFW 3.11 and MS-DOS 6.22 with VB 3.0 to develop 16 bit apps, but that is impossible now.

    Because people cannot legally make a backup of the videos they buy, many are forced to losing a DVD that got ruined by a scratch. So they either rent the DVD or download a copy of it off of a file sharing network.

    I have seen the DVD backup software, it tells the viewer that they are viewing a copy and has the web address of the company that made the DVD backup software when a copied DVD is viewed.

    Maybe we should have open sourced movies now? ;)
    • Re:Next I suppose (Score:3, Informative)

      by odin53 ( 207172 )
      Next I suppose we cannot backup commercial software?

      Well, there's an explicit exception in the copyright law for doing this. There's no corresponding explicit exception for movies. For making backups of DVDs, you'd have to depend on fair use or squeezing the DVDs under the definition of "computer programs" per section 117.
  • A simple solution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by saddino ( 183491 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:55PM (#9141831)
    There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures

    Mr. Attaway, if you don't want consumers to exercise their fair use rights to backup "motion pictures" then simply stop selling "motion pictures" to consumers .
  • Rights my 4$$ (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gr8_phk ( 621180 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @12:56PM (#9141836)
    "There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies"

    There was also no right to prevent people from making backups.

    They want all the advantages of electronic media, but want to outlaw a basic feature of it - easy replication. VHS didn't result in their worst nightmares as predicted, but digital media in an age of high bandwidth has. Just revert to the old model of not selling or renting movies to the public. Keep them in theaters where you can control them.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:02PM (#9141929)
    The history of consumer products is that EVERYTHING eventually becomes either commoditized or obsolete. Commodities are typically the least protected products and easiest to copy. It does not matter if you are talking about growing potatoes or writing or sailing ships or airplanes or motion pictures, each has at one time been arcane technology accessible to a tiny percentage of the population. Today, anyone has access to the collected knowledge of all those subjects.

    Making movies and music has gotten easier due to advancing technology. It won't be long before home technology is as good as what major studios can afford. This will leave the large players with two advantages in the business: marketing acumen and a big head start. The majors' current business practices of control and exclusivity will be irrelevant and the whole copyright hysteria will disappear.

    For those who think I'm way offbase, read about the automobile industry's early days. Auto technology used to be heavily protected information over which bloody battles were fought; now it is heavily documented for whomever wants to buy a manual. The automakers make money by using and marketing the technology well, not by hiding it.
  • by SilentChris ( 452960 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:10PM (#9142018) Homepage
    To be honest, government has a lot more important shit to worry about than copyright law right now. Look at the news. I'm surprised these guys are even bringing up this stuff (it's going to get lost in the crossfire of how to deal with a particularly drastic international situation that's only growing worse).

    The law will be tempered, eventually. Once the economy gets back to growing and we can focus are attention away from war we can take another look copyright law. Now's not the time.
  • by Derivin ( 635919 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:21PM (#9142169)
    Here was my favorite quote: 'There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever,' said Fritz Attaway, executive vice president of the MPAA."

    I am sitting here readding 'Free Culture' and this Gem pops up on /.

    It is nice to see the MPAA is rewritting the foundations of the Constitution for us. Makes me believe in big, bad, heartless, corporations out to get us all. The copyright law is a law of restrictions on works. The law lists restrictions on the use and copying of copyrighted works. It does not list all allowed uses of copyright works. It was origionally intended to allow publishers a limited monopoly on a work for a limited time (14 years renewable twice). Big lobby's have gotten this to be extended to 75 years retroactive. And in 15 years when Micky Mouse(c) is ready to go public domain again, I bet that will be expanded to 95 years.

    Now this is where things get really scary. We have a law that restricts the copying of works for a time but allows for 'fair use'. With the advent of technology some of these 'fair use' cases which used to be expensive to do are much easier. (so are many of the non-fair use, but Im not talking about those). In order to limit this fair use, big media is using technology to try to make it hard (CSS/marcovision/etc) to make a personal copy etc. Unfortunatly for them, technology adapts faster than their outdated thinking. So they loby for new law, the DMCA. This makes it Illegal to circumvent the technology used to make it hard to use copyright materials which you paid for in a 'fair-use' way which is permitted under copyright law! Its a Meta-Law.

    Some people in Congress seem to have caught on that this is not in the public's best intrest and are trying to fix the problem by saying that obvious fair use is indeed legal. Now this [censored] comes out and says that because copyright law does not expressly allow for this type of digital fair use, it has no legal merit? The copyright law doesnt expressly allow me to use the book I bought as a doorstop. It doesn't expressly allow the giving said book to another person after reading it. Or the DVD I bought to another person after watching it. It does not even expressly allow me to READ copyrighted material! These are fair use! Copyright law explicitly restricts and implicitly allows.

    So If I am to follow the MPAA's train of thought I should not be allowed to do anything that the Constitution and its ammendments does not expressly allow. I hope they all follow this bright new intrepretation of the law and all stop breathing (it says the right to live, not breath).
  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:29PM (#9142252) Homepage Journal
    What ever happened ' by the people for the people'.

    The entire 'career legislature ' concept is wrong. These people are only out for their own personal agendas / interests and have NO concern for their constituents wishes.. If they were actually listing to us out here in 'fly over land', then this wouldn't even be a topic up for discussion. Nor would most of the absolute ludicrous laws they enact to restrict our freedoms, and keep themselves in power, even exist in the first place.

    This country was founded on the needs of the people, not the government. Its about time we take back our country from these people.

    Ok, rant over. Move along, nothing more to see here.

  • by xSterbenx ( 549640 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:33PM (#9142305)
    In line with the current MPAA stance that backups cause illegal distribution of copywrited materials, I propose the following:

    I. Both hands shall be cut off from every person over the age of 12. This will prevent people from being able to physically do the act of breaking copywrite law.

    II. Both eyes shall be removed from every person over the age of 12. This will prevent people from breaking copywrite law via viewing copywrited material.

    III. Both ears shall be cut off from every person over the age of 12. This will prevent people from breaking copywrite law via hearing copywrited material.

  • My take (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AviLazar ( 741826 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @01:37PM (#9142367) Journal
    'There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever,' said Fritz Attaway, executive vice president of the MPAA."
    Is it written in the law that I have the right to breath air? Since it doesn't say that, I guess I do not have this legal right. The law is a restricting agent - it tells people what they can and cannot do - but if it doesn't explicitly mention something then it is up to the individual to determine what they want to do.
  • by EvanKai ( 218260 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @02:02PM (#9142704) Homepage
    I work for a university and I'm sick of trying to explain why I can't convert a RealAudio stream into something that can be used in a PowerPoint. I'm told the faculty member's use is covered under Fair Use and while that's true, the process of getting to the content isn't. The DMCA trumps Fair Use. Big Media knew this when they lobbied for it. Technology impaired PhD's didn't realize how a law that was marketted as something to stop people from illegally copying DVDs would effect them until they tried to play something in class that requires them to watch a 2 minute FBI warning and then a 5 minutes of teaser that they are "Not Permitted" to fast forward though before they even get to the DVD menu or wanted to copy a audio or video clip hosted on a site they feared might change and were told that was illegal. Part of the problem is that most University support staff I know will just crack/copy/convert the content rather than listen to the faculty member whine.

    The DMCA should have been named "Consumers License the Right to View Content vs. Own Content Act". Maybe then more people would see that their rights are being eroded. Are they going to wait until Maytag starts selling subscription service to keep food cold or Craftsman sells hammers that can only be used with their nails? Cars that only run on Ford approved gas? HDTV that can't be recorded or TiVo'ed?

    What is it going to take for Average Joe American to realize Big Co's really own all his stuff? I completely support this legislation and I hope every /.er is completing this EFF form [eff.org] to let their congressional representatives know people care about this issue.
  • iPod played a roll (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BlewScreen ( 159261 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @03:44PM (#9143878)
    It looks like John Doolittle (the other guy responsible for this bill) was influenced by an iPod [sacbee.com]:

    On Wednesday the Rocklin Republican pulled his iPod from his pocket and used it as a weapon in his battle to amend copyright laws by removing limitation on copying audio and video compact discs and DVDs for personal use.

    -bs

  • by u-235-sentinel ( 594077 ) on Thursday May 13, 2004 @04:14PM (#9144265) Homepage Journal
    There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever,'

    Now I wish I kept the link. Years ago I was reading up on the fair use laws and noticed the Supreme Court had decided we are entitled to an archival copy of our media (I believe that was how they put it). This was before DVD's really took off. CD's were around however (data and music). The ruling basically was we were either given a backup copy for a nominal charge (usually around $5 or so) or allowed to make a copy of the product we purchased. Since we now know that CD's and DVD's have issues (not industructable), we need this even more.

    Every one of my CD's at home is a copy from an original master (Yes.. I own the master btw). My kids have either lost the copy or destroyed it (they are kids after all). I was able to simply make another copy and be done with it. Now I'm faced with loosing out on my investment for whatever reason and they expect people to pay full price for it again? I have a problem with that.

    I have been making copies of my DVD's for personal use. The master goes into a nice safe place away from the kids. The movies are still available. I'm happy, kids happy and the MPAA has their money. I don't see the problem.

I judge a religion as being good or bad based on whether its adherents become better people as a result of practicing it. - Joe Mullally, computer salesman

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