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Orbitz Sharing Customer Credit Card Information 65

Posted by timothy from the to-err-is-corporate dept.
tstorm writes "ConsumerAffairs.com has a warning about Orbitz and their affiliation with a company called MWI. Apparently numerous people who have booked travel through Orbitz are finding unauthorized $9.95 monthly charges on their credit card bills from MWI for membership in a 'discount entertainment service,' despite that fact that MWI doesn't appear to provide any actual product or service. It's also very difficult to opt-out of this membership, some people have gotten refunds for what they were already charged only to have another charge appear the following month."
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Orbitz Sharing Customer Credit Card Information More

Orbitz Sharing Customer Credit Card Information

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  • this stuff never happens to me (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 10, 2004 @07:37PM (#9112452)
    maybe it's because I

    1) READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS .. people think I'm some kind of dork for reading them all the time (which I am, of course :) but that's where they hide this bullshit. READ IT BEFORE CLICKING!

    2) I use a one-time virtual number from Citibank. Not sure if this can thwart the scam but they seem to do the trick.

    3) READ THE TERMS!
    • I use a one-time virtual number from Citibank. Not sure if this can thwart the scam but they seem to do the trick.

      Neat. And it's free [citibank.com].
      • AMEX used to have this--I wonder if they killed it because too many of their merchants didn't like getting stiffed on recurring billing services. I'll have to get a card from Citibank now--it's great not having to worry about signing up for some service and forgetting to cancel after the end of the month then having them hit the card again and again. At least until Citibank drops the service, too.
        • AMEX used to have this--I wonder if they killed it because too many of their merchants didn't like getting stiffed on recurring billing services.

          Credit card companies are almost always on the side of the card holder. Merchants need credit card companies more than the credit card companies need merchants.
        • it's great not having to worry about signing up for some service and forgetting to cancel after the end of the month then having them hit the card again and again

          I'm not sure it is an entirely good idea... forgetting to cancel subscriptions, that is.

          I also use "disposable" credit card numbers that my bank provide me, but always cancel anything I'm not interested in renewing. The reason for this is that I don't want it coming back in the future to bite me.

          Suppose that 10 years from now I'm applying for
          • I always used it more as a safety valve--I never intentionally avoid canceling, but it's nice to know that if I were to, that the service loses the ability to charge. This is particularly important with sites like (ironically enough) Consumer Reports, who charge a ridiculous fee for one-time access, but a small monthly subscription fee. They hope you'll forget, and will be able to keep charging forever. (Why Consumer Reports engages in this kind of business practice merits another discussion.)
          • Yeah, that will nail your credit rating. You may not be losing the money now, but your credit will go to crap.

  • consider yourself lucky (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    if it were a $1 a month charge, how many people wouldnt have contested it? or even noticed?

  • Bastards (Score:5, Informative)

    by elmegil ( 12001 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @07:51PM (#9112583) Homepage Journal
    MWI have been doing this in conjunction with Harris Publishing (aka those idiots who call you up trying to sell you class reunion directories) for a long [kadyellebee.com] time [ripoffreport.com]. Just WONDERFUL to see Orbitz in bed with them.
    • Does MWI provide any kind of service? What do they do other than charge people $10 a month?
      • They claim to provide "lifestyle" services, things like "discount shoppers club" for various types of shoppers (like health services, etc) and that sort of thing. Which as far s I can tell, never gets you as much discount as the hype implies.
    • > And every young boy is mesmerized by the slow swish of a woman's hips.

      You're assuming a lot here...
    • I can't say that I'm surprised to see Orbitz doing this. With their relentless popups and too good to be true fares that are in fact too good to be true, this just seems like something they would do. When I look for airline tickets, I use anyone but Orbitz. Saving an extra $10 on a $300 ticket just isn't worth putting up with all the hassles that this unethical company forces on people.

  • Browse-wrap conditions (Score:3, Informative)

    by pdcryan ( 748847 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @07:51PM (#9112585) Homepage
    Scary as it sounds, many courts have found that similar "browse-wrap" and "click wrap" conditions are valid contracts. So long as you have to affirmatively agree to the conditions, and either are presented with them, or giving the option to read them, they can be valid.

    For some background on these types of contacts check out:

    http://gsulaw.gsu.edu/lawand/papers/su03/darden_th orpe/

    It's hard to tell from the consumer warning if that's the case here, of if they're just jerks and are overtly committing fraud.

  • More Info (Score:5, Informative)

    by tstorm ( 227535 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @07:54PM (#9112601)
    Here is the Orbitz response [orbitz.com] and the Better Business Bureau's take [thelocalbbb.com] on the issue.
    • From the 'explanation':
      Customers who change their minds about membership receive ongoing opportunities from Memberworks to cancel and request a full refund through its "no questions asked" policy.

      Translation: Customers who request to disenroll from this program will be autoenrolled and are given the oportunity to disenroll on a monthly basis.

      -Adam

  • Augh! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @08:00PM (#9112644)
    I just booked a flight through Orbitz this morning and was going to book one later tonight for Memorial Day weekend. This is the last time I use Orbitz! Honestly, where has all the trustworthiness gone?

    I encourage every to delete their credit card information from your Orbitz account. That probably doesn't grantee privacy but it is well worth it.

    • Re:Augh! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Mr. Piddle ( 567882 )
      I just booked a flight through Orbitz...

      Do you recall any checkboxes reading something like "Please enroll me in affiliate blah blah program! [x]"? This is usually how this membership crap sneaks through.

      Remember, everyone, opt out of everything, always! Never sign up for anything that says "affiliates", cause that's a good recipe for disaster. Just recently, I saw an auto insurance application that said (more or less) "If we can't give you this policy, would you like us to apply your premium towards
      • "different" can mean "more".

        Shouldn't that read "different does mean more"?


        • This is why the huge steaming masses of fine print are so important to companies like Orbitz. They know that the majority of people are too impatient or too poorly educated to read all of it and understand the subtle word choices like "different". I feel a little bad for all those people who sign away their savings on a daily basis to unethical businesses, but I also feel little sympathy for people who, generation after generation, never learn a damn thing (scams are as old as the hills).

      • In this case, the insurance agency could be doing it for good reasons, although you are definitely correct to question it. Most agents write policies for several different carriers. If they get a quote from a company that is really high, they can try to rate you with another company to see if the rate is better. Obviously they are more likely to get your business with a good rate, so they have incentive to shop around for you. If you give them permission to share your information with other companies, it is
    • I always delete my credit card information just after I've given it to _any_ merchant online.

      There's a possiblity the merchant could get hacked. Plus you have to remember a different strong password for every merchant. why bother? for the small extra convenience of not typing in your credit card number?
      • I always delete my credit card information just after I've given it to _any_ merchant online.

        Seems excessively paranoid, and not verye effective to boot.

        I just have a card I use for all and only online and phone transactions, and I made sure it is one which has a zero-pounds liability for fraudulant use. If there was fraud and the card issuer couldn't sort it out quickly, at worst I'd lose that card and have to get another.

        Since pushing a delete button on a web page doesn't actually mean the informati

    • FWIW, the words "trust" and "Internet" haven't belonged together for quite a long time now.

  • Just deal with visa instead (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Macgyver7017 ( 629825 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @08:02PM (#9112655)
    If it is difficult to get them to refund your money, contact your bank instead. Usually they will refund the charge and deal with the investigation themselves just on your word that the charge wasn't authorized. Last time this happened with my American Express card, they just said "the charge has been reversed, if we need any forther information we will contact you, otherwise consider it taken care of". Your bank and ultimately visa/mastercard has a lot more leverage with a given buisiness than you. They can threaten to not allow them to process visa/mc/amex transactions if they are the cause of too many fraudulent charges or complaints.
    • Bawhhahhahha! If only this were true! Let me tell you my tale of woe.

      My AMEX card number was obtained by someone, somehow and they used it to sign up for 2 AOL accounts.

      When I received the bill, I called AMEX and they gave me the same line they gave you. Next month, charges again - called AMEX again (30 min hold) - said they would take care of the fraud, but I asked for a new card number to be sure. OK - they sent me a new card.

      Next month - more charges! I called again - how can they get my new card numb

      • Just cancel your AMEX if this the best service they can offer. There are heaps of alternatives. I should have a Virgin credit card in the mail soon.
      • Got to protect the privacy of the thief you know...
      • AMEX said - we will see what we can do but AOL is hard to deal with. That is the story so far - see how well your CC takes care of fraudulant charges for you!

        That sounds like the AMEX I've had experience with. Many years ago they wanted to charge me twice for the same airline tickets. I eventually had to have an attorney beat them into submission, needless to say I will never do business with them again.

      • My AMEX card number was obtained by someone, somehow [...] Six months of this

        Er, surely after they accepted it was not a valid charge, but failed to stop it, a quick letter cancelling the card and noting that the charges to date were now their problem was in order.

        As for `AOL is hard to deal with', this is clearly bogus. They don't have to deal with AOL, cancel the accounts etc as you would, they just have to stop giving AOL money. Then it becomes AOL's problem.

      • Well I had an issue like 10 years ago. This was when cell phones werent quite as common as they are now and I had rented a cell phone for a week so I could keep in touch with my parents.

        I returned the phone and thought that was the end of that. But in addition to the $100 or so i racked up in that week ( which was the amount invoiced ), the rental company had charged me $1500 more. Called Amex and it was taken care of. Got the money refunded and the charges never appeared again.

        - dvnull
      • You laugh, but you should know that not all credit cards are the same, and not even all Visas are the same. The bank that issues the card is the one you deal with. They just license use of the Visa name and transaction system, but any charges or customer service issues are handled by your bank. AMEX I think is more centralized, but if you want good service, get a Visa or Mastercard from a good bank. Citibank is notably very good, and there are many others. I have used Citibank, and they have good servi

  • Orbitz Orig Press Release... (Score:4, Informative)

    by sahtanax ( 639159 ) <xanathasNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Monday May 10, 2004 @08:10PM (#9112719) Homepage
    Here's the Orbitz side of it... the Original Press Release [orbitz.com]

    IMHO, Clicking 'yes' 2x and entering your e-mail address, while definitely interactive, is not sufficient enough process to allow sale of your CCard info. I'd prefer an e-mail/reply system, or something more explicit

    --------

    Orbitz Statement on Inaccurate Media Reports Regarding Memberworks (MWI) Connections

    Chicago, IL, April 20, 2004---Orbitz has partnered with MemberWork's Connections program to offer customers increased savings opportunities at America's most popular retailers and restaurants. MemberWorks assures us that it follows National Best Marketing Practices that go far beyond its competitors in pro-consumer protections and the company maintains a "no questions asked" refund policy.

    To ensure Orbitz's customers are aware they are signing up for a paid membership, they must enter their email address twice and click "yes" to enroll in the Connections program. Each step of the sign-up process includes disclosures about the program and how much and when the customer will be billed. Customers who change their minds about membership receive ongoing opportunities from Memberworks to cancel and request a full refund through its "no questions asked" policy.

    • Orbitz may well believe it, and this may well be what they're telling Orbitz, but the fact remains, I and many many other people have been burned by these slimebags. I was one of the lucky ones--I didn't have to fight with them to get my money back. Nonetheless, they did indeed bill my credit card after a single phone contact where I did NOT agree to any of their other garbage. It's not the press reporting being screwed by these people, it's other people.

  • business practices (Score:4, Insightful)

    by tolldog ( 1571 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @08:12PM (#9112727) Homepage Journal
    *disclaimer - I previously worked for Orbitz, this post is my own opinion, not that of my previous employer, this is not based off of any information I have, purely speculation and guessing based on general business practices*

    I tend to avoid any "special offers" because they almost always have some sort of string attached. I don't like strings. From tstorm's follup posts, it looks like some of the methodology is at least changing. It is very possible they have some sort of contract with the company so that they can't drop the promotion. I would not say this is an example of a company being bad. This is an example of how the standard web based sales company works. Most of them have contracts with people, some good, some bad. Sometimes you just don't know until its too late and you have to ride it out.

    I would say that contacting customer service before you decide to never use Orbitz again makes more sense. If you are upset enough to not use them again, let them know why. They need to be better informed as to what customers like and don't like. Thats the only way a company can better serve you, the consumer. Without you, there is no company.

    -Tim
    • I would say that contacting customer service before you decide to never use Orbitz again makes more sense. If you are upset enough to not use them again, let them know why. They need to be better informed as to what customers like and don't like. Thats the only way a company can better serve you, the consumer. Without you, there is no company.

      I don't think it's our job to tell them why. As far as I'm concerned, they can go out of business and eat their shoes. They are *crooks*, ripping people off. Peo

      • If you paid attention, Orbitz was not the crooks. Its another company with the money for nothing scheme... or possibly giving discounts, who knows, they are the shady one.

        I am sure they gave a really nice presentation to Orbitz marketing though telling how good of service they could provide to Orbitz customers. Trust me, Orbitz is not in the business of ripping people off. Any large company needs to have a decently high customer satisfaction and repeat business to keep afloat.
        • Orbitz is selling the scumbags other peoples information, including their credit card information. If you don't think that's crooked, then I don't *ever* want to do business with you, either.

  • There you go, Ashcroft... (Score:3, Funny)

    by GypC ( 7592 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @08:18PM (#9112759) Homepage Journal

    Something for you to do that won't piss everyone off...

  • I love Orbitz's searching (especially the +/- 3 days matrix price comparison). But I've never bought through them, as I can just to directly through the airline's website after arming myself with Orbitz's information.
  • IIRC, Orbitz was using Linux. I thought it was kind of cool. Guess the guys are scumbags after all.

    I guess it just goes to show that like with anything in life, just because a corporation or government is "good" today, doesn't mean it will be "good" tomorrow. All the more reason to keep corporations and our governments from collecting unnecessary information in the first place.
    • Using Linux does not a non-scumbag one make.I'm sure that many twisted pr0n sites are hosted on linux boxen, as well as many spammers using the same. The tool doesn't necessary describe the user, just that it fits the user's requirements.

  • No surprise, this. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Teddy Beartuzzi ( 727169 ) on Tuesday May 11, 2004 @02:36AM (#9114576) Journal
    Orbitz had/has some of the most annoying pop up, pop under, banner, full screen ads, etc.

    A company willing to pull dirty tricks in advertising is of course willing to go the extra mile and blatantly steal from their customers.

    • Re:No surprise, this. (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Exactly. Thank you for posting this... at this point yours is the last post in this topic, and I was starting to think I was the only one thinking, "Who the hell would support those people in the first place?"

      Also, their TV commercials use creepy pseudo-realistic plastic people.

    • Not to mention marketing through spam. My first tipoff that Orbitz is a shady company was when they started spamming every one of my email accounts with advertising on a semi-regular basis. This is definitely spam because I never "agreed" to anything like that. I've never even had an account on their site.

      Any company who engages in all the crap they do deserves to go bankrupt and rot in corporate hell with SCO.

  • Orbitch (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Tuesday May 11, 2004 @09:00AM (#9116103) Homepage Journal
    After the third or fourth time I used Orbitz, they totally screwed up my itinerary, unilaterally changing my return flight to a different (earlier) date and a different airport in a foreign country, during the trip. They notified me with an email, which I generally wasn't checking on pleasure trips. I happened to be at a computer with some time available, so I checked email, and saw their notice. They had my phone number, but didn't call it, nor make any attempt to ensure that I had received the message. If I hadn't unexpectedly checked the message, I would have missed the earlier flight, and been stuck overseas. It also took a half-dozen calls and several hours to force them to revert to my original reservation.

    Orbitz has one of the best cross-airline search engines. I use it for searching, but then effect the actual sales transaction directly with the airline. I have thereby avoided repeats of Orbitz's bait & switch scam. And I have also found that the airlines often offer even lower fares, on the identical itineraries, than reported in the Orbitz search.

    Orbitz is a con. They sell tickets at an undisclosed markup, they change your itinerary without your consent, risking stranding you, and now they hand your money to a parallel scam business. They should be prosecuted, and a stake driven through their corporate heart. But they're the product of the US airlines cartel. So there's not a chance in hell that any accountability will be sought. Orbitz is way down the list of abuse dealt by these airlines, in exchange for billions of dollars in handouts, that is happily enabled by corporate protectionism from the US federal government.
    • Orbitz is a con. They sell [product] at an undisclosed markup
      Uh, yeah, so does ThinkGeek, so does Intel, so does HP, so does Ford...
      What the heck is your point with that? I've never seen a store that posts their markup on the price sticker.
      • It's not just the quantity of the markup that's undisclosed (which is, as you point out, standard commerce). Orbitz promotes that they list the lowest fares, when they are actually not as low as through the airlines directly. Since even those direct fares are specified by legal tariff, which sets their retail rates and standard discounts, Orbitz is using end-run loopholes in the tariff laws not to provide a better service, but to raise rates for greater profit, with false advertising about their markups. Th
    • I booked a trip via orbitz and they unilaterally changed my itinerary with only an email notification. They claimed that the AIRLINE was the one that made the change, citing some obscure policy that allows the airlines to do so at any time including during the trip. The change completely screwed up the entire trip but when I called orbitz (steaming mad) I was able to persuade them to change it back.

      The punch line is that my return flight originally had a connecting flight and now is direct! wOOt!

  • MWI settled a similar lawsuit in 2001 (Score:3, Informative)

    by Shiifty ( 704247 ) on Tuesday May 11, 2004 @09:20AM (#9116307) Homepage
    From http://www.heartlandbbb.org/commonreport.html?bure au=omaha&compid=7000028&code= [heartlandbbb.org]

    "On April 27, 2001, the California Attorney General announced that MemberWorks and its affiliates had settled charges of misleading telemarketing practices. The sale of a 30-day free trail membership with a "negative option" cancellation resulted in complaints from consumers who were upset to find charges of $49 and $89 on their credit card accounts. Without admitting liability, MemberWorks agreed to pay $1.5 million in civil penalties and costs. The firm also agreed to change its' business practices and improve notice to purchasers."

    MWI paid out 1.5 mil without admitting guilt -- hopefully they'll be hit hard enough to sink them this time.

  • Seriously, this is fraud, plain and simple. First, call the company (Orbitz and MWI) and tell them to remove all unauthorized charges. Be adamant. Then call your credit card company and appraise them of the situation. When they ask whether you want to file charges for fraud (or something similar) say yes.


    Don't let these fuckers have a penny. It's your hardearned money, not theirs.

  • They won't, but you can embarass TrustE in the press by asking and then publicizing the correspondence.

    In its early days, TrustE meant something, but they've sold out completely. Now they're even running ads for Bonded Spammer, er Sender.

    Read TrustE's own "Watchdog Reports" [truste.org]. In the last six months, TrustE never took any enforcement action whatsoever based on a complaint. They get 100-200 complaints every month, and do nothing. Over the past five years, according to their own figures, they've requeste

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