Chemical, Printable RFIDs 285
Syre writes "The RFID Journal says that CrossID, an Israeli startup, has developed an RFID system that can be printed using an inkjet printer. The 'nanometric' RFID system uses tiny particles of chemicals with varying degrees of magnetism that resonate when bombarded with electromagnetic waves from a reader. Since the system uses up to 70 different chemicals, each chemical is assigned its own position in a 70-digit binary number. 'Previously, there has been no way to protect paper documents,' says Moshe Glickstein, CrossID cofounder. 'We have created the first firewall for paper documents.' The big advantage is that the tag can be printed on just about anything. 'It's as easy to create as a printed bar code. And we can print in invisible mode for extra security. Printing the tags cost less than 1 cent each.' Their FAQ
says that 'CrossID can be read from quite a long distance'. No word on whether it can be user-disabled..."
Tattoos (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, this could be loaded into a tattoo gun, could it not?
I might not even know I had one if they knocked me out first:
And we can print in invisible mode for extra security.
+z: Funny? (Score:5, Insightful)
Living in the country that tried to introduce CAPPS and CAPPS II [eff.org] and did pass PATRIOT [eff.org] but thankfully not TIA [epic.org] or PATRIOT II [eff.org], or am I just the only one that could see the government trying to do this?
Re:+z: Funny? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:+z: Funny? (Score:4, Interesting)
for the dedicated, though, such bans never seem to work. police scanners are illegal in my country... but i picked one up at a pawn shop for $100. and every city desker at your local newspaper worth his/her nacl has one.
only a few years ago, military grade crypto was restricted for private use in the state, and that didn't stop anyone who wanted it from getting it.
That's not the problem.... (Score:4, Insightful)
True - there will be ways of detecting these... but consider blending legitimate and illegitimate purposes. You know that you have a RFID in your computer, your watch or the medical-entitlement tattoo that tells the ambulance crew to treat you (hey - that's capitalism), but how do you confirm who accesses this information. It's only a number that the chip emits. Now how do you know that the RFID in your car that you use to allow the police to return it to you when nicked, is not also scanned by the FBI, the taxman and the insurance company for other monitoring purposes?
I can see that different users of RFID might pool resources for monitoring (share recievers and transmitters) just like mobile phone providers share network bandwidth.
My point is that its not the detecting of these numbers (IDs) that matters, but the access to the database that contains that number. Of course, you could just avoid carrying any RFID tags altogether, but unless you can persuade the rest of society to join you, you'll have problems.
It Has happened before. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:+z: Funny? (Score:5, Interesting)
Cheap? Not at all! (Score:3, Interesting)
And the second: I hear the word
That's really interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
So that would seem to incline towards a control of the ink materials or production. I wonder how hard these chemicals would be to produce in a non-industrial setting?
I also wonder if t
sorry for dupe post (Score:2)
Re:+z: Funny? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most people have a scar on their left arm from some innoculation that we all get when we're babies. I forget what it's for - measels I think. Anyway - what it's for is unimportant. (I think the X-Files had a wonderful episode where they postulated that the tissue collected from every innoculation went into a big storehouse for a genetic database)
One could very easily see how a government could set it up so that everyone was tagged during this innoculation.
We have it in Australia, and I see the same scars here all the time in Japan and I saw them in England - I wonder how many other countries do this innoculation?
God, I'm turning into a paranoid nut
Re:Tattoos (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Tattoos (Score:2)
Re:Tattoos (Score:5, Insightful)
Too late.
[billboardsofthepast.com]
It's the original spam.
[hamiltonbond.com]
Everyone is into it.
[infoutdoor.com]
It's so pervasive that
[emc-outofhome.com]
you don't even notice any more.
[graffiti.org]
But some people are predictably taking artistic advantage
[nytimes.com]
and some are merely advancing the art predictably
[classicbillboard.com.my]
Maybe it'd be more obvious
[duke.edu]
if you could sell the old ones on eBay.
Sign of the beast (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sign of the beast (Score:4, Interesting)
With a system where each person has their own id (read mark) imprinted into their wrist or forehead things like identity theft (bogus sellers, bogus buyers - think ebay, think credit card,...), piracy (copyright infringment), tracking of individuals (think terrorists, enemies of the state, rapists, kidnapped persons, etc) would (seemingly) fall by the wayside.
With the many converging technologies of today this is getting easier all the time. With technologies like the internet, and wireless access points (hotels, corporations, restaurants,
Revelation 13: 16-17:
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark..."
Re:Sign of the beast (Score:5, Interesting)
But in all seriousness folks, this would probably backfire. The Fundamentalist Christians support the state of Israel precisely because they expect Armageddon to start there, and -- according to their Holy Book -- Armageddon has to happen before Christ returns to reward the Fundies.
That Armageddon is supposed to leave Israel hip deep in blood is one of those regrettably necessary evils. It'll be th blood of the Jews and the Muslims, not the Fundies. The Fundies will rule for 1000 years at the side of Christ, or rise bodily into heaven or however it is their Sky-Ghost is supposed to reward them.
Since another Sign of the "End Times" is the ubiquitous appearance of the Mark of the Best on foreheads or hands everywhere, I wouldn't be surprised to see Fundies being all for it, on the theory that the sooner the Beast comes, the sooner Christ follows.
Re:Tattoos (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Tattoos (Score:2)
Watch out! - OJ
Built Into the Bar Code (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? What's a realistic scenario where this could be abused?
Let me define realistic:
1.) Not something that'd be against the law.
2.) Not something that would be way too expensive to implement.
3.) Not something that a company wouldn't want exposed. (I.e. They'd be exposed if they started calling people and saying "I'll tell the world you bought a porn DVD if you don't come to our sale on Saturday.")
I'm not trying to bust your chops here, I just haven't heard anything but really extreme examples
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:4, Interesting)
There would be real money in retailers being able to identify relationships between their consumers, too, and a clearinghouse could help them figure that stuff out pretty easily.
It wouldn't be all that expensive to implement, and isn't science fiction. As far as I know, it isn't against the law either.
The paranoid in me would also suggest that they could pay off Waste Management et al to install RFID readers so the retailers could figure out how long you keep your items before tossing them (which may actually be interesting information, but not something I am seeking to share with said retailers..)
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:4, Informative)
The RFID readers can do it passively, and can identify the customer based on what they're wearing/carrying - UPC codes can't be used for that passively.
Last I checked, some of the RFID numbering is at least 48-bit, but I'm sure they can go further than that. Still enough for tracking most people's possessions.
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably similar to how you'd do it on a website.
The first time that person buys something with a credit or debit card, their name is matched up to every unique RFID on their person. After that, you could identify them any time they visit your store, just like using cookies to track when repeat customers come to your website.
Unlike cookies, there would be nothing to prevent a retailer from tracking the IDs of merchandise from other stores.
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:4, Insightful)
2) You get audited because you were scanned near an anti-war rally.
3) At your job interview, you are asked what movie you saw last week at the theater that was showing an action flick and a politically unpopular movie.
Ever visit a friend who is a druggie?
Ever visit a friend who is gay?
Ever interview for a job while you still had one?
Freedom of movment and freedom of association are very precious. When you can be tracked at all times and constantly live under the threat of being "categorized" by having your movements tracked, you give up a very important fundamental freedom.
Re:Built Into the Bar Code (Score:2, Informative)
Disabled (Score:5, Funny)
The black magic marker strikes again! (Score:2)
Yup... here it comes again!
Also, whiteout... and.......scissors...
Re:Disabled (Score:3, Offtopic)
Try a photocopier?
Unless they all get programed to do what they do for currency to prevent us from copying such documents. (E.G. time to stock up on good copying machines?)
User disabled? (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, though, if they worked it in as a watermark or into the text itself, probably not.
Defense (Score:2)
Of course, then there's the challenge of keeping the document in the area (could have the tag snipped out and be removed) or keeping unauthorized document copiers out of said area. So it's not perfect.
Easy to disable! (Score:2, Funny)
Disabling (Score:4, Funny)
I think this [amazon.com]might do it.
Re:Disabling (Score:2)
Can they print on skin? (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah then we can all (Score:2)
Kjella
This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:5, Interesting)
This also makes it easy to forge RFID's, doesn't it? Why pay full cost at the local market when you can play "The Price is Right" using your printer at home.
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:3, Funny)
(unless of course you're running Linux, and waiting for them to open-source the driver.)
Future Jeopardy question (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:2)
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:2)
Nothing, but it won't work. The RFID they're looking for is still in that stack of paper, so they can still track you (or tell that you're stealing something).
Sure, if you can obtain the 70 different inks and the design of the RFID you're trying to
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:2)
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:3, Interesting)
Course, if stores go ahead with the whole "walking out" thing where people pay automatically without the use of clerks and/or cashiers, they probably deserve
Re:This makes it easy to defeat RFID (Score:2)
And even if that weren't the case, the filet mignon which goes for $14.99@lb gets its RFID code "augmented" so it looks like $1.99@lb ground chuck. Who's going to look that closely?
And what are they going to do even if they catch you? Just feign ignorance... they'll have to assume it's a snafu on their end.
Hilarious.
In search of... (Score:2)
Happy Trails!
Erick
Cheap to print... (Score:2, Interesting)
Magnetic.../ (Score:2, Interesting)
what about by using a strong magnetic field?
70 different chemicals? (Score:5, Funny)
Why is this needed? (Score:4, Interesting)
They say it will work well on SKU tags but the article says it has some shortcomings in nasty (industrial environments). Most production factories I have been in were pretty environmentally nasty, so if it cannot stand up to where it would be most used, why have it.
Zebra printers printing bar codes on plastic tags have worked so much better everywhere I have had to put them including some factories that are as close to the depths of hell as I want to get to.
Re:Why is this needed? (Score:3, Interesting)
Working in a classified environment, I can certainly see a use for this. I imagine if they could, the government would absolutely like to know if a worker carries top secret documents home with them.
Re:Why is this needed? (Score:2)
I can see ways to use and abuse this technology. Since it is a solution looking for a problem, I fear that the abuses will be perfected before the legitimate uses.
Re:Why is this needed? (Score:2)
"we have created the first firewall for paper docs (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, it's called a safe.
Pfiou! Tinfoil still works!! (Score:3, Funny)
Nothing will separate me from my tinfoil hat from now on!
A godsend, perhaps? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:A godsend, perhaps? (Score:2)
Well, to some, we are just "ugly bags of water".
Re:Pfiou! Tinfoil still works!! (Score:2)
Or my portable inflatable swimming pool.
Currency protection? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Currency protection? (Score:4, Insightful)
Copy by hand? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Copy by hand? (Score:2, Funny)
Really cool technology (Score:2)
It's like some sort of bar-code. Truly revolutionary.
User-disable... (Score:2, Insightful)
Seems very useful for stopping mass theft of docs (Score:3, Interesting)
That is not very practical in the real world.
Most times one wants to steal a whole bunch at a time.
I am sure we have all read interesting things that
are left sitting in the printer unattended... that might have
value to someone else outside the company doors.
So that seems to be what this system might stop.
One cannot stick 100 pages of information in their
pants, covered by their shirt and just walk out.
At one cent a page, it seems very reasonable to install those
directly into your printer. I want one too. Well as long as it
comes in a normal printer as an added feature. Let the printer
company pay the license fee, and I will buy the special inks.
Profit.
Re:Seems very useful for stopping mass theft of do (Score:2)
pants, covered by their shirt and just walk out.
Are those 100 pages of documents in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?
Re:Seems very useful for stopping mass theft of do (Score:2)
Without the RFID, you cannot prove that you didn't just make up the info.
Not just for paper (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, they say they could print this on all kinds of materials, so it could be sprayed onto products before they are painted, etc.
I kind of doubt you could deactivate them by overloading them, as you can other RFIDs.
This could be a rather invasive and hard to counteract development...
Re:Not just for paper (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting. Everyone seems to have immediately thought of this being used by retailers besides the obvious document watermarking. My first thought was the entertainment industry would love something like this: DVDs, CDs, and whatever's next (especially whatever's next!) that can only be played on RFID enabled devices, and such devices that only read RFID printed media.
Next front for 21st century hackers: chemistry, bio, and molecular physics. Will the next DeCSS be a protein chain?
Re:Not just for paper (Score:2)
I doubt any form of RFID tag will survive 15 seconds in my microwave oven...
At what point should this be illegal? (Score:5, Insightful)
What a wonderful Democracy that would leave us with.
Re:At what point should this be illegal? (Score:2)
RFID'd document + Photocopier = anonymous leak
Firewall eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Whats to prevent people from copying it out by hand? So it has an "invisible" mode... visible or not, if there are chemicals, it can be read... Any hackers out there with biochemistry or chemical engineering degrees? Heh...
It does raise an interesting point though, these folks could very well become the microsoft of the photocopying world. Whats to stop them from making this sort of printing mandatory for copyright sake? Assuming they managed to get that in line, I cant imagine what'd happen to Xerox stocks when people are no longer able to freely photocopy.
I think I speak for everyone when I say, 'I refuse to live in a world without freedom to steal other people's intellectual property!'.
Re:Firewall eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the biggest hassles in that environment is making sure that the documents have been stored properly at the end of the day (locked in special cabinets), and disposed of properly. Add scanners at the copier and trash areas, and you have an effective way of detecting an attempt to improperly dispose of documents.
Line the secure document repository with a blocking material, and
price change? (Score:2)
So much music is photocopied because, for instance choral music will be $2 per booklet; while you probably buy a decent sized set (20 or 40), you probably don't buy 200 to even thousands depending on the size of the choir.
If people had to pay for them, maybe the price would come down, otherwise composers would find their music losing popularity fast...
one cent??? (Score:2, Funny)
RFID and Barcodes != Security or Trust (Score:5, Interesting)
It's just a RF barcode. It lets machines read things a little bit easier. There is nothing very secure about it, especially once it becomes widespread.
The biggest change I forsee is that the cashier at the grociery store - if they still have a job - won't have to touch anything. The conveyor belt will scan all the food as it goes down to the bagger, and probably your RFID Credit Card too.
Not your grandpa's RFID (Score:2)
Developer offers Linux-based RFID (Score:3, Interesting)
Seems easily defeated (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting through building exits (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Getting through building exits (Score:2, Insightful)
Welcome citizen, do not lose your ID card, we will be watching.
Re:Getting through building exits (Score:2, Insightful)
Your idea:
"If we see B, D (0101) try to leave the building, stop it." *Spritz* "Oh, 1111 can leave, no problem."
My idea:
"A is fine and just an indicator. B is 'Make sure the person doesn't have any big bags'. C is 'Search the person for illegal documents'. D is 'shoot on sight'."
Then 1010 (Search the person for illegal document removal) becomes *Spritz!* 1111... and that could be painful.
So, what if bit 56 means
Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)
They say that they have 70 different chemicals that all resonate at different frequencies, they assign each chemical to a certain position in a 70 bit string.
So if you want to mess with it, all you need to do is add a few drops of glue with (say) 15 of the chemicals in it onto the item, then the reader reads a 70 bit code with 15 extra 1's in it.... which is not the code that it's looking for, move along.
Verisign? (Score:2, Interesting)
With RFID built into currency as an anit-counterfeit tool, now they will be able to cross-reference my cash-on-hand with products in the store. As I reach for the overpriced Ben-N-Jerry's a voice will say "you can't afford it bud!"
Re:Verisign? (Score:2, Interesting)
Uhhhh, machine guns do wonders (Score:2)
Well, if youve ever been to a secure records center, like where they keep classified archives (I have) the guys at the doors with machine guns do wonders to "protect" the documents
RF Jammin (Score:4, Funny)
this is huge! (Score:5, Interesting)
With a 3-10ghz range wireless reader, these would be the most feasible types of tags to use as a security device.
When entering a secured facility, you could get a unique card printed up and be allowed or denied access to rooms/areas via installed card readers. I'd much rather have a throw away card over biometrtics any day. And this such much more reliable over all.
And what about home security?
These could act as keyless entry, and also allow you to tag your belongings so that if they were detected as leaving your premesis, the authorities could be contacted.
There are plenty of 1984ish applications such as embedding these into ID cards/Drivers Licenses, which could in the future be a very effective way to monitor peoples comings and goings. But, I'm sure there are hundred of tinfoil cap wearing slashbts who could delve into those areas for me.
Live by the electron, die by the electron (Score:2, Insightful)
Disabled (Score:2)
Ever heard of the "cisors" algorithm?
A bold statement (Score:2)
I don't get it. If somebody steals the paper, how is this going to protect it? This might be a good way to sign a piece of paper, but it isn't going to protect them.
Now if you want to prevent copying, that's a whole other matter. But that's DRM technology, not firewall technology. Are we really supposed to feel good about a technology when we hear it from a company that doesn't know what a firewall is?
sounds pretty useless (Score:2)
Allergies? (Score:3, Insightful)
Magnetism? I cannot believe this! (Score:4, Funny)
Nobody alerted us to a new use for our Alex Chiu immortality rings! [alexchiu.com]
RFID your boss! hmm (Score:3, Funny)
Perpetual Identification (Score:3, Insightful)
BS (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe that this company's technology is a hoax. The description from the RFId Journal page is nonsense. The CrossID [crossid.com] homepage is very vague and lacks any useful information (just read the last FAQ item at the bottom of the page.)
The description that the RFId Journal gives reads like pseudoscience. Here's an example:
The system uses "nanometric" materials--tiny particles of chemicals with varying degrees of magnetism--that resonate when bombarded with electromagnetic waves from a reader.
Some elements and molecules will resonate (emit electromagnatic energy [EM]) when exposed to EM radiation of a particular frequency, but only in the presence of a magnetic field! The process the article describes (without mention of the magnetic field) is that used by MRI machines. Why didn't the article or homepage mention the superconducting electromagnets necessary for the RFId tags to operate?
Even if the tag materials are magnetic (in which case its composition must be a ferrous metal, ceramic, or a magnetic plastic), then the very weak magnetic field is still not strong enough to cause the atoms/molecules to resonate in an EM field. Another sentence from article shows more inaccuracies:
CrossID is testing readers that operate at three to 10 GHz, which is higher than the frequencies commonly used by wireless LANs and handheld computers, although the company has not made a final determination on what frequency the readers will use.
They claim that 70 tag compounds are used which all have different resonate frequencies. Fine, the reader would use a wide-band receiver. I read the above as the tag reader using one transmit frequency. The trouble is that it is unlikely that those 70 compounds will all resonate when exposed to the same frequency EM waves. Anyway, it states that a "final determination" hasn't been made for what frequency to use! If the RFId tag ink exists then it MUST already be known what frequency must be used. This tech is bogus.
This article is just like the "Ubiquitous LED" article a few days ago. (if you want the reasons just reply) This article should not have been posted. It is not even wrong ;)
Re:user-disableable? (Score:3, Insightful)