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Currency Detection Discovered in More Products 677

Posted by CmdrTaco from the plot-thickens dept.
netbsd_fan writes "BUGTRAQ is reporting that anti-counterfeiting spyware is being found in more and more products. What is also interesting is that these products block fair uses of currency images which do not break the law. What incentive do printer manufacturers have to treat their customers like criminals? Is this a precursor to DRM in scanners, CD drives, and output devices?"
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Currency Detection Discovered in More Products More

Currency Detection Discovered in More Products

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  • it's a test... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dirtyboot ( 158648 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:13PM (#8034523)
    It's actually just a test for the true roll-out, which will prevent the reproduction and distribution of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
    • Would anyone recognize them?

  • note design changes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geoff lane ( 93738 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:14PM (#8034528)
    what happens when the note design changes?

    • Re:note design changes (Score:5, Informative)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:23PM (#8034629) Journal
      what happens when the note design changes?

      As many people have pointed out, in every Slashdot FP on this topic, the detection algorithm works by finding a pattern of five small circles in a particular configuration (which looks vaguely like the Cingular logo, without the head-dot).

      This same pattern occurs on US, Canadian, EU, and presumeably many other forms of world currency, so the same algorithm can detect all of them, without modification (and more usefully, without a huge library of bill designs that needs constant updating as various countries change the pictures on their money).

      To make a new bill design fit the detection algorithm, the government needs only include that pattern of five circles somewhere in the design.

      I included a link to a PDF of the pattern in a Slashdot post [slashdot.org] from a few days ago, if you want to see it.

  • Nothing new (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Uber Banker ( 655221 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:14PM (#8034533)
    What is also interesting is that these products block fair uses of currency images which do not break the law.

    Just like most machines, they will minimise the chance of taking a fake rather than maximising not refecting a non-fake. They probably have some kind of level of statistical signigicance of 'error' they are happy with. New tech is not fool-proof tech.

  • We can use this ourselves (Score:5, Funny)

    by h4rm0ny ( 722443 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:15PM (#8034543) Journal
    What I really want to be able to do is to incorporate this signature into my own images. It could be used to provide a modicum of image protection from the technophobes, or else to annoy people. I found a few details on how it works here [about.com]. I particularly like a comment from one guy about how it blocks scanning of $20 bills...

    "You can still scan a $10 bill twice."

    :D

    • Re:We can use this ourselves (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:23PM (#8034636)
      Actually, I've thought about this. I don't have complete information about the Eurion pattern, but if it's scalable to larger sizes, it could be interesting.

      I was thinking of T-shirts with this design on them so that photographs of you (think driver's license, passport) can't be photocopied.

      A little rubber stamp with this pattern on it so that you can copy-proof any document you want (do you want the IRS photocopying your 1040? Nah!)

      Anyway, not terribly handy I admit, but a great way to wrench up the works.

    • Re:We can use this ourselves (Score:4, Interesting)

      by anticypher ( 48312 ) <anticypher.gmail@com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:17PM (#8035278) Homepage
      At last year's CeBIT trade show there was a company selling paper they claimed could not be photocopied. It was about 50euros for a box of 25 sheets, or I'd have bought some (I'm going again this year, so if I see that booth again I'm buying a box). The pages appeared to be covered with pale yellow circles that would trigger the anti-currency algorithms in photocopiers. There was also some moire-pattern thin blue lines around the corners, very thin but probably enough to be picked up by the optics.

      Supposedly the exact spacing and pattern of circles is trademarked and copyrighted. But I could see making it a watermark pattern for my important documents, but now I'll have to make sure I use a printer which doesn't have anti-currency technology. As a matter of fact, that would make a good test document to screw with sales droid's heads. Now I'll have to DL a pirate copy of photoshop CS so I can test the pattern and spacing :-)

      An even cooler application would be a rubber stamp with a pad of pale yellow ink that fluoresces. Stamp it all over documents you don't want government departments to easily photocopy. The circles would be almost invisible to the naked eye, the poor civil service drones would probably give up the case after a few attempts keep breaking their machines.

      the AC
      There goes my evening...
      • Supposedly the exact spacing and pattern of circles is trademarked and
        copyrighted.
        As in they control who can make a copy of the pattern?

        Talk about self-referencial. They got a copyright on an uncopiable design. I'm laughing my ass off.

  • Just use an old version.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by junkymailbox ( 731309 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:16PM (#8034550)
    dont support the new version and be done with it ..

  • Spyware? Wrong term I think. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:16PM (#8034551)
    Is this software/hardware reporting back to someone that you're trying to duplicate currency? I doubt it, so it's likely not spyware. The incentive they have is simply to help the government fight counterfeit currency. Do you want your goods to be purchased with fake money? I don't.

    • Actually, YOU report in... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by temojen ( 678985 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:45PM (#8034899) Journal

      Suddenly, the expensive printer in your office starts printing every image (but not text) in fluorescent green. It has plenty of magenta toner, plain paper, a surge suppressor, etc. It's having the same problem with both Windows and BSD or Linux computers, so you know it's not a driver issue.

      So, what do you do?

      You call tech support to find out you need to do a firmware upgrade, remove the network card, turn the printer off & back on, while holding a button, turn it off, replace the network card, turn it back on, and calibrate it 3 times.

      Have this same trouble ticket a few times and I bet they'll notify the RCMP, MI-6, FBI, or whatever it is in your country.

      All because someone at your office was "playing" with a new logo design, that happens to include a scanned image of the "great pyramid" on the US dollar bill.

    • That's just it. Whoever gets stuck with a bad twenty is left holding the bag. We live in a world where scanners/printers are lightyears improved over what we had a couple years ago, and they continue to improve.

      What this is designed to do is prevent the "casual counterfeiter" from being in business. Like the teenager who decides that he needs an extra "allowance" and prints off a couple of twenties. Before you know it all his freinds at school are doing it, and then their friends etc. etc.

      Then there is a

  • All ready slow! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nubbie ( 454788 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:16PM (#8034555) Homepage
    To: BugTraq
    Subject: HP printers and currency anti-copying measures
    Date: Jan 17 2004 5:10PM
    Author: Richard M. Smith
    Message-ID:

    Hi,

    Last week, the Associated Press reported that Adobe has incorporated
    anti-copying technology in their Photoshop CS software which prevents users
    from opening image files of U.S. and European currency. Here's the article:

    Adobe admits to currency blocker
    http://tinyurl.com/2xnno

    (http://www.sanmateocountytimes.com/Stories/0,14 13 ,87~11271~1882929,00.html)

    I did some investigating on my own computer and discovered that HP has also
    been shipping currency anti-copying software in their printer drives since
    at least the summer of 2002. I have an HP 130 photo printer and found the
    string "http://www.rulesforuse.org" embedded in the driver.

    According to a few newsgroup messages posted in 2002 and 2003, folks are
    seeing this URL printed out when they attempt to print images of certain
    types of bills. An HP printer with this anti-copying technology only prints
    out an inch of a currency image before aborting the print job.

    Here is a list of HP printers which appear to have this anti-copy technology
    embedded in their Windows printer drivers:

    HP 130
    HP 230
    HP 7150
    HP 7345
    HP 7350
    HP 7550

    I suspect the list of affected HP printers is much longer.

    I located these printer drivers simply by searching all files in my Windows
    and Program Files directories for the string "rulesforuse". If other folks
    run this same experiment, please let me know of other programs which appear
    to contain currency anti-copy technology.

    There are some unanswered questions raised by this quiet effort by U.S. and
    European governments to turn home computers into anti-counterfeiting "cops":

    1. Besides graphic programs and printer drivers, what
    other kinds of software is this currency anti-copy
    technology being embedded in?

    2. Are companies being required to include currency
    anti-copying technology in their products? If not,
    what incentives are being offered to companies to
    include the technology on a voluntary basis?

    3. Will future versions of this technology, "phone home"
    to the rulesforuse.org Web site with details about
    a violation of the currency copying rules? It would
    be very easy to include an email address, name of the
    image file, software version number, etc. embedded in
    a URL to the rulesforuse.org when a violation has been
    detected.

    Richard M. Smith
    http://www.ComputerBytesMan.com

    • Re:All ready slow! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Phillup ( 317168 )
      How can I justify to management that I bought a printer that won't print what I told it to print?

      As far as I'm concerned, the product is defective.

      Looks like it is time to remove HP from my printer supplier list...

      Any others?

  • What incentive?!?!? (Score:5, Funny)

    by koreth ( 409849 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:16PM (#8034556)
    Well, first of all, the government has a compelling...

    Hey, look! Over there! A terrorist!

    What were you asking me again, you traitor?

  • As usual, easily defeatable (Score:5, Informative)

    by elan ( 171883 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:17PM (#8034564)
    Search on the usual suspect newsgroups and you'll find a "patch" that can easily be applied to Photoshop CS to turn the currency detection off.

    • Re:As usual, easily defeatable (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Endive4Ever ( 742304 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:32PM (#8034738)
      Yes, but you fail to understand the purpose of this anti-copying feature. It isn't to make it impossible for determined criminals to copy currency, it's to make it difficult enough that only determined criminals will try.

      The court system would be clogged with newbs and 'regular folk' who copied a few $20 and/or their 10 year old son did it.

      By implementing a layer of 'prohibition' like this they filter those folks out, which means there will be more resources available to hammer hard on the people who need the hammering (the people conterfeiting on a large scale). Which is a good thing, unless you're some sort of fringe character who thinks counterfeiting is kewl.

  • Bushwa. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SirFozzie ( 442268 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:17PM (#8034568)
    If they didn't DRM it, they could be found liable whn a counterfitter uses their programs to counterfit money.

    Should there be an exemption for folks who have legitimate use? Sure. But it should be very limited. Just like in the old days, very few people had access to the template plates money was issued from, the ability to restrict people that would make money that would fool even a cursory glance is a good thing, not a bad thing

    • Re:Bushwa. (Score:3, Flamebait)

      by Xzzy ( 111297 )
      > Should there be an exemption for folks who have legitimate use? Sure.

      Screw that, there should be an exemption for the folks who made the software. I'm not a fan of big government but if this currency detection really is just a CYA policy then perhaps a law protecting software houses from prosecution is in order. Provided said company is not "supporting" the crime in question of course (aka Napster).

      We don't take gun companies to court do we? Automobile makers don't get fined when a drunk driver kills

  • Preemptive Obedience (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rhubarb Crumble ( 581156 ) <r_crumble@hotmail.com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:19PM (#8034591) Homepage
    The Germans have a phrase for this sort of thing - "Preemptive Obedience". Question is, who are they obeying, and why? Colour photocopiers have been around for ages and photocopies of banknotes haven't been a huge problem so far. So what's new?

    Maybe this is another example of the kind of initiative that bureaucrats dream up all the time and usual get binned immediately, but are nowadays somehow seeing the light of day due to some "homeland security" paranoia. Like telling airline customers not to queue for the toilets in planes or whatever.

  • Currency Watermarking.. (Score:5, Informative)

    by molo ( 94384 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:19PM (#8034592) Journal
    It has been public information for a long time that there have been currency detection in digital color copiers. When I worked at Xerox this was publicly acknowledged (~4 years ago).

    The currency detection was used to imprint a watermark into the reproduction image. That watermark identified the copier model and serial number that made the photocopy. The result was that the secret service could track down photocopied currency to the exact machine it came from. This supposedly worked for US bills, but I don't know if it recognized other foreign bills.

    All thats changed now is that some devices stop printing the currency and instead print out some informational junk in its place. HP apparently does this in its Windows drivers, while Xerox did its watermarking in firmware on the actual device.

    -molo

  • Counterfeiting is a *federal* crime... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Omega ( 1602 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:23PM (#8034633) Homepage
    I certainly appreciate people's rights to make fake looking money for promotional or political purposes, but I'm astonished by how many people forget that counterfeiting is a federal crime.

    Some people use their photo printers to make near duplicate dollar bills to put in vending machines and are then surprised when the secret service shows up at their door.

    Counterfeiting (in any denomination) is a serious crime. One that is punishable by serving jail time in a federal penitentiary.

    • Just beacuse you can use said device for a crime does not mean it should be crippled.

      Charge and convict the criminals. Dont just assume everyone is and cripple the product.

      its not the manufacturing companies job to police its usage, its the law enforcements job.

  • I'm sorry Dave (Score:5, Funny)

    by ch-chuck ( 9622 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:23PM (#8034640) Homepage
    I cannot copy that benjamin

  • Who is serving whom? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dutchmaan ( 442553 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:24PM (#8034649) Homepage
    We seem to be crossing the barrier from capturing and prosecuting criminals to restraining the general populace in order to protect the status quo institution...

    At what point does the government go from serving the wishes of the people to the people serving the wishes of the government?

    Take a good and careful look.. this is erosion of freedom at work... Sure maybe it's small and relatively painless.. but then, that's why they call it erosion,

  • Nope. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:25PM (#8034663)
    "Is this a precursor to DRM in scanners, CD drives, and output devices?"

    Nope. It's a pre-emptive step to avoid government mandated DRM in scanners, CD drives, and output devices. If wide-spread counterfitting were to occur because one of these devices was capable of pulling it off, the manufacturer would be able to say "we took reasonable steps to avoid this." If they didn't do that, then the gov't would no doubt cook up its own solution to the problem. I am not a huge fan of this, I would rather these companies stay out of the legal cross-fire.

    The United States is going to protect its currency very heavily. Don't provoke them by trying to circumvent this.

    • Re:Nope. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Tom ( 822 )
      The United States is going to protect its currency very heavily

      ROTFL!

      So that's why the US$ scores high on the easy-to-fake scale?

      Compare to european currencies, both before and after the Euro, the US$ is cheap paper with green print on it. Maybe they should go and solve the problem at the root.
  • drm will affect millions of computer users in myriad ways: drm is seriously scary

    not being able to copy your $20 bill will affect what... 5 avant garde artists?: yawm

  • Vending machines? (Score:5, Funny)

    by tordon ( 176098 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:29PM (#8034714)
    If software can detect bank notes in printer drivers, why can't vending machines do it reliably?
    • I know this was meant as a joke, but it appears that the printer/photoshop/copier/scanner people don't really care about false positives, while the vending machine people definitely would not want to identify a fake as real. If they used this technology, you would simply have to draw a few circles on a piece of paper to get your carbs.

  • Fair uses? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tom7 ( 102298 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:36PM (#8034774) Homepage Journal
    What is also interesting is that these products block fair uses of currency images which do not break the law.

    By using the term "fair uses" you seem to be trying to evoke copyright law. As far as I know, there is no copyright on currency images in the US because they are government publications (and, indeed, not really even "creative works" as required to be copyrightable). The issue is entirely with counterfeiting, obviously, which is actually a much more serious infraction.

    Even if this were a copyright issue, no publisher of software is required to write software which enables you to fairly use their, or others', copyrighted material. There's really no legal issue here unless Adobe was forced by law to include this (they weren't)--it's just a matter of what Photoshop customers want, and what Adobe provides.

    For my part, I enjoyed learning what those little yellow '20s' on the new series $20 bills are for, and so this whole ordeal was certainly worth it. =)

  • In other news (Score:4, Funny)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:41PM (#8034855) Homepage Journal
    US central bank sent back to the producer a batch of professional heavy-duty printing machines they had bought in order to print dollar bills. The built-in money detection prevents them from printing the bills. They plan outsourcing production of US Dollars to India.

    In other news:
    US Inflation lowest since last 3 months.

  • Ever seen a printed bill? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 192939495969798999 ( 58312 ) <info AT devinmoore DOT com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:42PM (#8034869) Homepage Journal
    Have any of you ever seen a bill printed off of a printer? It looks like monopoly money, even if it's an Epson Pro Stylus 10000 with archival ink, and sweet paper. The only way to get the effect of real money even nearly not "monopoly"-ish, is to use engravings and print the stuff... and believe me, once you start down that road, you're in for some trouble.

  • Open-source drivers to be prohibited? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:45PM (#8034910) Homepage
    HP implemented this technology in their Windows printer drivers, not in their printers. This raises some serious questions for open-source printer support.

    Will printers be locked to Windows drivers, so that they only work with Windows? This might be justified as an "anti-counterfeiting" measure. Otherwise, there's an "open source hole" in the protection strategy.

    Will generic printer drivers stop working? What about standalone printer spooling devices? Less-common operating systems?

  • Just More Bloat (Score:3, Interesting)

    by no longer myself ( 741142 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:49PM (#8034952)
    A long while back I owned a DMP, and it printed out text marginally, images were dreadful, and in both cases it was slow.

    Then came my first inkjet. The ink wasn't any cheaper back then, the resolution was about as crisp as a DMP, and it used a driver included with Windows 95.

    A few inkjets later, the drivers had to be installed and the the bell and whistle feature creep was causing a noticable delay in the printer startup time.

    Today the printers you buy require more hard drive space than Windows 95 ever used, they phone home as soon as they detect an internet connection, they won't let you use all the ink in a cartridge, they won't even let you use competitor's refills, they frequently break down (but it's more cost effective just to buy another one) and the one thing that still eludes all common sense:

    They are still able to sell these pieces of crap at a higher rate today than any time before now.

    You get what you deserve. If you (not just the stupid people, but all of you) continue to buy trash hardware, the manufacturers will continue to make more and more. In the long run it will only be cost effective for themselves - Not you - Themselves.

    Sad to think that I threw away a couple of newer inkjets because of their short lived construction, but my ol' HP 500, Stylus 660, and that old DMP work just fine. Sure the color picture print-outs were pretty, but I didn't miss the bloatware headaches they caused.

    Just stop buying crap, people. Make it a priority. Put it on your "to do" list. Give it a whirl. Don't just give it lip service. If you want to effect change, actually put your convictions into practice. Don't just mod my butt down because you think I'm being obnoxious. I'm making a valid point. It's not always palatable to hear the truth, but you need to start making more conscious efforts in your buying habits - Not the guy in the next cubical - YOU.

  • the real issue (Score:3, Insightful)

    by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:49PM (#8034953)
    The real issues here is how much bloat and stealing of computing cycles is going into this software that the user neither wants nor needs. Imagine how much computing power is needed to do the image recognition to look at any image and decide if it contains any "forbiden" image, at any angle, before printing it. And the user pays for this, both in wasted memory for that printer "driver" and in computing cycles and time wasted waiting for that software to be run on every page you print.

  • HOLY CRAP (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mike Hawk ( 687615 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:53PM (#8035004) Journal
    Looking up the powers of the Secret Service I found this:

    What are the rules for the printing, publishing and illustrations of U.S. currency?

    The Counterfeit Detection Act of 1992, Public Law 102-550, in Section 411 of Title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations, permits color illustrations of U.S. currency provided:
    1. the illustration is of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of the item illustrated;
    2. the illustration is one-sided; and
    3. all negatives, plates, positives, digitized storage medium, graphic files, magnetic medium, optical storage devices, and any other thing used in the making of the illustration that contain an image of the illustration or any part thereof are destroyed and/or deleted or erased after their final use.

    Title 18, United States Code, Section 504 permits black and white reproductions of currency and other obligations, provided such reproductions meet the size requirement. See Know Your Money for more information.

    So basically, even if you did it once, you'd have to destroy your printer and delete any storage medium used to make it.
    Secret Service wins, good game!

  • Dont take this so easy. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by miffo.swe ( 547642 ) <daniel...hedblom@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:54PM (#8035008) Homepage Journal
    This is serious stuff. We live in a society where the individual is supposed to make their own decisions. I see a trend towards the government taking over more and more of the decision process. The step is not far from limiting speech. It will ofcourse start with "dangerous" talk. The start is not what worries me but the end, oh boy the end.

    Taken togheter these erosion of the individual rights is pretty scary and should not be taken lighly. If you wake up and find yourself in a world where your choices as an individual is severly limited, dont complain.

    Now is the time.

  • Wrong signals (Score:4, Insightful)

    by unoengborg ( 209251 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:54PM (#8035009) Homepage
    If people gets used to that law is something that is guarded by technical devices and not by moral and ethical standards of the citizens, we are on a very dangerous path. If peple are forced to follow they will find ways to break it, just for the feeling of freedom it would create.

  • Counterfeiting is done every day legally! (Score:3, Informative)

    by dada21 ( 163177 ) <adam.dada@gmail.com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:05PM (#8035139) Homepage Journal
    As an ancap, I believe this is completely legitimate for the private companies to include this type of anti-counterfeit detection. The day could come when it is enforced by government, which I believe is completely against their Constitutional powers, so I'd prefer to see it done privately. You are free to stop using software or printers that enable this 'feature.'

    On the other hand, all governments of the world legally counterfeit money every day. Back when money was real hard currency (whether it was gold or silver or dirt or wood), government didn't have the ability to steal from the citizens. Today, they do it constantly using something known as inflation. They print new fiat currency, which causes costs to rise for everyone. And we allow this. Sure, government blames it on business and the free market, but inflation can only truly occur when someone introduces new currency into the market -- sometimes counterfeiters do but it is rare. Government counterfeits every day, lowering the value of our stocks, our bank accounts, and any currency in our pockets. A silent form of taxation, and one that hurts everyone at every level of wealth.
    • As an ancap, I believe this is completely legitimate for the private companies ... The day could come when it is enforced by government

      I'm beginning to believe anarchist is just another word for ignorant. Every anarchist I've met recently seems to be completely ignorant of every aspect of an issue, most are just protesting for the sake of protesting. As one put it at the software patent protests in Brussels last year, "I protest against everything, but mostly I do this to meet chicks".

      Since you weren't

  • This is stupid (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:24PM (#8035352) Journal
    Really.

    I don't know about the U.S. but here in Canada, currency has so many anti-counterfeit measures built into it that if someone could afford to manufacture the printers that would be required to pass something off as the real thing, they don't need to waste time with counterfeiting, because they're already filthy stinkin' rich.

    There's much more to paper money than meets the eye, and it's sooo easy to identify forgeries that are mere cosmetic copies (no matter how high resolution the printer or scanner is, the real security details aren't something that any off-the-shelf products could ever even *HOPE* to replicate) that I really don't see why this should be an issue. The only reason fake 5's and 10's ever start getting propogated is because the person they passed them off to was lazy, not because the copy was so good.

    • Re:This is stupid (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tomhudson ( 43916 )
      I don't know where in Canada you live, but here in Montreal, Quebec, about half the stores have signs saying they won't take $100.00 bills.

      Add to that the lack of useable security measures on the $10.00 bill (yes, the security measures are there, but they're not noticeable to the average person, so the bill is easily faked), and the fact that the paper for the new $10.00 bills doesn't feel like "real money" to begin with, and we have a problem.

      Also, the $5.00 bill is easy to counterfeit with an inkjet bec

  • New for some, old for others (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gordguide ( 307383 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:35PM (#8035474)
    I remember about a decade ago, when Canon first began to challenge Xerox in the standalone copier market with new color copiers, the documentation described security features to prevent currency copying (colors would be rendered incorrectly or the copy would be otherwise unuseable).

    So, this kind of thing is hardly new; perhaps the notable thing about it is that it wasn't possible or desireable with optical/film process that digital imaging is displacing or replacing.

    Although the topic indicates it's not illegal to copy currency, that must be considered only true in a given jurisdiction (ie the US as indicated).

    It is most certainly a crime to depict or reproduce any valid currency in Canada, and it's not limited to same-size or color reproduction either.

    I'm sure many nations have prohibitions to copying or depicting currency.

  • How Effective? (Score:3, Informative)

    by fernd1 ( 582087 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:42PM (#8035564)
    With Photoshop we all heard about the workarounds. Though, I was wondering how effective the algorithm is in the first place. Does the quality of the bill come into question? I scanned a slightly used ten-dollar bill, and there was no trouble importing it into Photoshop CS. I saved the picture as a *.psd, and had no trouble reopening it. I applied several filters on the image with no problems. I have yet to try this on a 20-dollar bill. Either it only detects 20 dollar bills and higher, or the quality of the bill (i.e. slightly creased) dramatically affects whether the software detects currency.

    • Re:How Effective? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Laplace ( 143876 )
      <i>I have yet to try this on a 20-dollar bill. Either it only detects 20 dollar bills and higher, or the quality of the bill (i.e. slightly creased) dramatically affects whether the software detects currency.</i>

      You may have noticed that the 20-dollar bill has gone through several revisions, but the one-dollar bill is the same old style that you used over a decade ago. Why? There is no money in forging one-dollar bills.

  • Who Cares? Just So Much Bratty Hyperbole (Score:3, Insightful)

    by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:51PM (#8035645)
    >>"What incentive do printer manufacturers have to treat their customers like criminals?"

    That's the kind of bratty hyperbole I'd expect to hear from ill-educated 13-year olds. If a device is constructed to attempt to prevent a crime, no one is treating anyone as a "criminal". (Or did you plan on making copies of your dollars?)

    Are you offended when you're neighbor locks his doors? Are you offended when your neighbor activates his car alarm? Are you offended that currency is deliberately construcuted to thwart counterfeiting? Are you offended when your favorite retailer's computer checks to make sure the credit card you're trying to use isn't stolen?

    Why would you be offended about a piece of hardware that's wired to keep people from committing a crime?

    As for the incentive to make these things, perhaps

  • Let's top using the Federal Rerserve bank notes (Score:3, Informative)

    by gerardrj ( 207690 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:54PM (#8035696) Journal
    There's a guy that started printing his own money [norfed.org]. This is not illegal, ANYONE can print currency and use it for transactions as long as both parties agree to the value of the currency. A good example of this is Disney Dollars or supermarket script.
    Anyway... you can use use it to make purchases all the time. His money is backed by actual deposits of gold and silverin an actual warehouse, not debt and guns. The money is widely used for commerce.
    If you don't like the Fed and corporations restricting your digital imaging of bank notes, then go take a look and try it out.

    *I ma not, nor am I affiliated with norfed, I am not an authorized exchange center and I make not money from the currency, I'm just a happy user of the notes.

  • How to defeat the copy protection (Score:3, Funny)

    by lhand ( 30548 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @04:21PM (#8036066)
    You can easly defeat the copy protection in virtually all products by simply
    [ Notice: Text removed by slashdot anti-copying ] [ protection. For information please go to the ] [ http://www.rulesforabuse.org site. Thank you. ]
    and press print. Viola! Instant copies.

  • Think of the children, or Fed fatasses no more (Score:3, Interesting)

    by defile ( 1059 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @06:17PM (#8037402) Homepage Journal

    A couple of years ago Wired ran an article on amateur counterfeiting. It turns out that hundreds of kids nationwide independently came to the conclusion that it would be hillarious to run off piles of $20 bills with their new printers and hand them out in their local communities, absolutely unaware how serious a crime this is in the United States.

    Federal agencies that had budgets to justify and headlines to make prosecuted these kids to the fullest extent of the law, which meant years of imprisonment and enormous fines. Most of these kids were devastated, and rarely did the feds care that this was petty crime and the kids would be better off with a slap on the wrist and the parents sternly scolded.

    So consider this; these anti-conterfeiting features aren't even going to put a dent into the plans of real counterfeiters, but it may hamper Little Timmy enough that he loses interest in rolling off some bills and returns to his regularly scheduled youthful destructive activities like flaming bags of poo and toilet papering houses.

    By taking the amateurs out of the marketplace, the feds can't go after the easy stupid prey anymore. The little punks will turn to other petty crime so that your locally appointed authorities can deal with them, while the feds stay out of your neighborhood since they're focusing on the large-scale professional counterfeiters.

    It's a stretch, but considered this way, Adobe et al. are promoting states rights.

  • There's an epidemic of casual fakes (Score:4, Interesting)

    by UninvitedCompany ( 709936 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @06:24PM (#8037471)
    In all this conversation were missing an important fact. That is, that there is a serious problem with casual counterfeitting of currency. In the U.S., most currency actually passed is now produced on color printers and copiers. While such copies are easy to identify, they are usually passed in situations where they will not receive much scrutiny. That is, in low light situations where the cashier is in a hurry, like in a bar or at a concert. Usually the cashiers don't care that much, since they aren't the one who's out the money when a fake comes in -- except at places like electronics stores that have more exposure and so train their cashiers better. By the time the counterfeit is found, the doer is long gone and so the business ends up just getting screwed. They don't have any recourse. Now, the counterfeitting laws and the whole enforcement system is predicated upon the idea that fakes can't be produced without substantial upfront effort. The print-on-demand nature of this type of counterfeitting makes prosecution tricky. With offset counterfeits, there are multiple people involved. There are resources to get, cameras, plate burners, presses, paper, ink, and all these attract attention. Computer-produced fakes aren't like that. There's no evidence except perhaps what forensic analysis can turn up on the hard drive. The presence of counterfeits detracts from the widespread acceptance of currency. Since currency is the only practical anonymous means of payment, those of us who value our privacy would do well to support measures that keep currency practical. Now, the anticopying measures in the printers are, as far as anyone has been able to tell, a voluntary measure on the part of the manufacturers. Good for them. It is one of only two good choke points for the problem, the other being to have cashiers check in detail for things like watermarks. Is it a form of DRM? Not really, since it is wholly unrelated to copyright law, and since there is no digital distribution of the "content" in the first place. What are the implications for open source? None. Open source systems could include such measures and may do so in the fullness of time. Just because it can be disabled by the knowledgeable makes no difference. When the day comes when 90% of the desktops have an open source operating system and desktop suite, most of the user base will have no idea how to make such changes.

  • my idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ocie ( 6659 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @07:52PM (#8038449) Homepage
    I thought it would be a good idea for currency to have features designed to throw off scanners and printers. The first would be a set of converging lines at a small angle, like a horizonal line that intersects a diagonal line one one end and is seperated by 1/4 inch on the other end. Another idea is to have several square fields each filled with close set parallel lines. Each field would be rotated slightly from the one next to it, so if you squint at the bill, they will all look a uniform grey, but if you copy it, the raster pattern should be evident and result in a checkerboard or some other pattern.

  • Please visit the site (Score:3, Funny)

    by bobalu ( 1921 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @10:59PM (#8039883)
    because *I* did, and unless about a million OTHER people thing I did they may THINK I actually got there by trying to print a picture of currency which I would never ever do because I'm trying to think of ways to scam people *legally*, really really I swear and oh God i don't want the freakin' Secret Service to visit my boss, or well, fuck the neighbors but I swear I thought they said "Secret Squirrel" you see and I.... oh never mind.

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