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SCO Approaches Google About Linux Licenses 591

MSBob writes "Seems that SCO is seriously hinting that their next victim is going to be Google. SCO said that they held what SCO described as "low level talks" with Google executives with regards to licensing SCO's alleged intellectual property within the Linux kernel. The full article is on Forbes.com." The Reuters story is on Yahoo!, too.
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SCO Approaches Google About Linux Licenses

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:44PM (#7938983)
    for quite a while, I thought?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:45PM (#7938988)
    Is that you don't try to extort Google. They're willing to fight back.
    • by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:53PM (#7939082)
      SCO seems to have decided that they would prefer to put the final nail in their coffin from the inside.
      • No, Not Even. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:55PM (#7939573) Homepage Journal
        SCO seems to have decided that they would prefer to put the final nail in their coffin from the inside.

        Laugh. This is pure blackmail. It's clearly aimed at the upcoming IPO of Google and the last thing a company facing before an IPO is a legal battle, hence they might just throw a bone to SCO to sweep the problem under the rug. Well planned move on SCO's part.

        • by t0ny ( 590331 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @05:36PM (#7940422)
          Here is the "low level talk" that transpired between SCO and Google-

          SCO: Hey, you are using OSS software, which we own. Can you give us some money?

          Google: Fuck off.

        • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @06:21PM (#7940743) Journal
          This is pure blackmail. It's clearly aimed at the upcoming IPO of Google and the last thing a company facing before an IPO is a legal battle, hence they might just throw a bone to SCO to sweep the problem under the rug. Well planned move on SCO's part.

          Given the huge number of servers that Google is running, the huge size of its expected IPO, and the likely effect of a miniscule license fee on their future extortion attemps, I doubt the carnivores at SCO could manage to keep their demands down to a thrown bone.

          The trick to pulling this off is to keep your demands to a minimum - like less than the lawyer time to look at them - and to be the only player in the game. Like the clutch of lawyers that bought up the patent on the XOR cursor, then for a decade or two systematically sued every computerish IPO in Silicon Valley over it (whether they had anything to do with graphics or not) and settled for something like $10k - effectively imposing an "incorporation tax".

          When one extortionist is panhandling a bag of peanuts it might be expedient to throw one to him. If he's asking to become a large, permanent hemmorage in your cash stream (or if there are a large crowd of these ticks sucking your corporate blood), paying the danegeld is a bad move.

          I suspect that that's what SCO thought it was doing to IBM - but they asked for too much, and/or got in the game too late and ran into an IBM policy of delousing rather than scratching the itch (due to IBM's long history and repeated experience with such extortion).

          But given SCO's track record for lack of savvy on these issues (i.e. taking on the IBM 500 lb Gorilla followed by a series of other stupid moves), I see no reason for them to suddenly wise up and avoid opening yet another front in the Unix Second World War (AT&T vs. UCB being the first).

          If they do, I'd bet that Google will fight - and probably ask the court to put it all on hold until the SCO/IBM case is resolved - or perhaps combine them, if the form of SCO's demands is such that this is an option.
          • by rs79 ( 71822 ) <hostmaster@open-rsc.org> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @08:34PM (#7941589) Homepage
            They also have about 1000 BSD servers.
          • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @10:45PM (#7942210)

            I suspect that that's what SCO thought it was doing to IBM - but they asked for too much, and/or got in the game too late and ran into an IBM policy of delousing rather than scratching the itch (due to IBM's long history and repeated experience with such extortion).

            Tip for all you future extortionists of IBM. I've seen how this stuff works from inside IBM, and I can tell you that IBM has a well-defined policy for how to handle this sort of extortion, complete with defined, documented dollar thresholds at which different actions take place.

            Here's the scoop. If you want to suck money out of IBM by threatening the company with something, you have to keep your demand below $25,000. That's the magic number. If you ask for less than $25K, IBM figures it's cheaper to pay you than to have a lawyer look at it. If you'll sign an ironclad general release of liability, you'll almost certainly get your money*. Once. Since the release will make it virtually impossible for you to ever even utter the letters "I", "B", or "M" again without finding yourself in breach of contract.

            When you ask for $1,000,000,000, however, since this *exceeds* the $25,000 threshold (see how simple this is?), a slightly *different* policy goes into effect. This one is a bit easier in that it doesn't require you to sign a release, but it does involve armies of high-powered lawyers armed with the largest patent portfolio in the world and typically ends with your ass being handed to you on silver platter.

            That's all there is to it, folks! $25K, and you get paid. $1B (or $3B) and you don't!

            *Actually, the $25K isn't a completely sure thing, either. IBM's policy is to randomly pick a subset of these cases and smash the plaintiff into a smooth, creamy paste, just to keep things from getting too routine and the lawyers from getting too bored.

        • Not Likely (Score:4, Interesting)

          by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @09:20PM (#7941828) Homepage
          It's clearly aimed at the upcoming IPO of Google and the last thing a company facing before an IPO is a legal battle

          I really doubt Google would offer any kind of a settlement, IPO or not. There could be a downside to a settlement as it would insinuate that they didn't understand the IP issues of the OS they built their business on. Not likely.

          Besides, it's not like they're counting on the IPO for survival. They make a ton of money. They're getting near the size they'd have to start publishing quarterly reports anyway. Absent the IPO they'd have all the reporting requirements but none of the advantages of a publicly traded company.

          If you're serious about reaching a settlement you don't leave the negotiations to the "low level" underlings. Although "low level" at a flat organization like Google is a little hard to pin down. Still, I'm guessing the word SCO is getting from Google would be more along the lines of corporate, "Go ahead, make my day."

  • by Slayback ( 12197 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:46PM (#7938999)
    Well, it's obvious that Google is making it WAY too easy for people to find information on the Internet that flys in the face of SCOs story.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      We're all scared. You hid in that ditch because you think there's still hope. But Slayback, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function. Without mercy. Without compassion. Without remorse. All war depends on it. No get out there and troll the hell out of Slashdot!!
    • by ixplodestuff8 ( 699898 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:21PM (#7939324)
      google search for: sco is honest and never lies and should get licences result: "Let sco hang itself" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&q=sco+is+honest+and+never+lies+and+should+g et+licences&btnG=Google+Search
  • by paule9984673 ( 547932 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:46PM (#7939000)
    "Hay guys, we want money" - "no" "oh, ok thx bye"
    • by Darren Winsper ( 136155 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939027)
      Perhaps it went something like this:
      SCO: You owe us money for Linux licenses.
      Google: Fuck off.
      SCO: You're using our code and we can prove it!
      Google: Go on then.
      SCO: No.
      Google: Fuck off then.

      Repeat as necessary.
      • by jchoyt ( 729301 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:04PM (#7939184) Homepage
        Hey Darren, fancy meeting you here!

        I don't think SCO is that straight forward. It'd be more like:

        SCO: You owe us money for Linux licenses.
        Google: Fuck off.
        SCO: You're using our code! Show us where!
        Google: Er, no.
        SCO: <deer in headlights look>
        Google: You can't see our servers and we don't have time for your nonsense. Go away.
        SCO: ?
        Google: Seriously. Go away.
        SCO: ? <hangs head and goes away>
    • Re:Low level talks: (Score:5, Interesting)

      by glassesmonkey ( 684291 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:50PM (#7939048) Homepage Journal
      wrong.. SCO says 'hey google give us $1000 which is peanuts and sign this non-disclosure and we'll call it even' -- Google 'ok sounds good to me' -- SCO release many press releases saying Google the largest commercial linux user paid SCO licsensing fee. Soon the $699's start to trickle in from all over the Fortune 500
      • Re:Low level talks: (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Thagg ( 9904 ) <thadbeier@gmail.com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:56PM (#7939106) Journal
        The problem with your plan is that there's still no incentive for people to part with their money. Those companies didn't get to be in the Fortune 500 by being stupid.

        I think it's far more likely that if SCO asks people for money they'll decline, and if SCO demands money they'll be sued.

        The likeliest scenario by far is that SCO is involved in a stock scam, requiring a constant stream of messages in the press. They needn't prevail in court nor need they actually receive any revenue.

        thad
        • Right. Those Fortune 500 companies aren't stupid. That's why they would rather pay the relatively paltry sum than waste the lawyer's and executive's time with something whose best outcome is saving the company $1000.
          • by Krow10 ( 228527 ) <cpenning@milo.org> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:27PM (#7939360) Homepage
            Right. Those Fortune 500 companies aren't stupid. That's why they would rather pay the relatively paltry sum than waste the lawyer's and executive's time with something whose best outcome is saving the company $1000.
            I've seen about 1000 people implicitly claim that large companies are stupid, and want to encouage frivolous lawsuits by rewarding publicized threats of frivolous lawsuits with money. Scumbags would be lining up around the block to sue Google if they gave SCOX one red dime. Additionally, I imagine such a transaction would involve a contract with SCOX; a company whose executives say things like "Contracts are what you use against parties you have relationships with... ." Yeah, you really want to do business with a company like that. Not.

            Cheers,
            Craig

      • by JordanH ( 75307 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:02PM (#7939161) Homepage Journal
        Don't hold your breath waiting for those Press Releases.

        Google would be nuts to do this.

        • Everyone would hate them for caving in.
        • It would negatively affect their IPO as investors would not know what kind of liability Google was carrying in the form of periodic license renewals.
        • IANAL, but wouldn't buying an SCO license for IP that they are already holding under GPL potentially negatively affect Google's future ability to release GPL'd code based on the same body of work. It would seem that buying the SCO license is an implicit admission to SCO's rights here.
      • They better not! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by TheLastUser ( 550621 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:49PM (#7939522)
        Google OWES Linux. They have profited greatly from having Linux available for their company. Now they have to stand up for the community, they have an ethical obligation not cave into the obvious bully tactics of sco.

        If they sign some slimy deal for a $1 with sco then they are saying that Google is the sort of company that will sell out the OSS community just to save a few dollars. This sort of action would only lend support to sco's unproven, unsubstanciated, undisclosed ascertions of sco code in the kernel.

        I don't think Google is that sort of company, and I don't think that the people that run Google are that sort of people. I expect that Google will soon release a public statement akin to "We will not be paying SCO license fees until they provide proof that there is sco code in the Linux kernel".
        • by lisany ( 700361 ) <<slashdot> <at> <thedoh.com>> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @04:36PM (#7939865)

          Google OWES Linux.

          Hey did you hear that there is this GREAT search engine that lets you searth the web, USENET, Images, News stories and more -- For FREE?! Man, I tell you whoever provides that service -- at no cost to the end user -- is doing the world a great favour.

          Anything Google "owes" to the community they have given back with more than most GPL-users can claim to have given back.

    • by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:08PM (#7939223)
      No no, the "level" of talks refers to how high up in the building they got. "Low level talks" means they weren't able to get past the ground floor receptionist before security kicked them out.
  • whos next? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lotas ( 177970 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:47PM (#7939006) Homepage Journal
    after google, the next major companies would be hosting companies, akamai, and some of the big film studios. when will SCO learn though? if they take google to court about this, and loose, like i hope they will, hopefully they will learn then. but who do you think will be next?
    • Re:whos next? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by abhisarda ( 638576 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:57PM (#7939119) Journal
      If I recall.. google uses red hat for their server farms. Most of those servers contain the free version of red hat but google also has an enterprise license from red hat.
      Red Hat's in court against sco. Its as simple as that. Until that red hat case or ibm case is sorted out, no big company is going to shell out a penny.
      There was some report about a fortune 500 company paying for sco licenses. Its probably only ms.
      Do you think any company that is so dumb to be swayed by sco's threats is going to have any fortune to speak of? They would get eaten up alive by their competitors. Google knows better.
  • As soon as.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Karamchand ( 607798 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:47PM (#7939013)
    ..more large-scale firms will just say foad to SCO, SCO's share value will drop because the shareholders will realize it's not that easy to get the money from the licenses. As soon as share value drops SCO has not as much money for lawyers anymore.
    • Re:As soon as.. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Frodo420024 ( 557006 ) <henrik@fHORSEangorn.dk minus herbivore> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:42PM (#7939468) Homepage Journal
      ..more large-scale firms will just say foad to SCO, SCO's share value will drop because the shareholders will realize it's not that easy to get the money from the licenses.

      Fair enough.

      As soon as share value drops SCO has not as much money for lawyers anymore.

      Wrong, sorry. Their stock value doesn't influence their cash flow directly, nor the amount of cash in bank. There might be some indirect effects related to financing and stock options, but they're not running out of cash even if their stock goes back to penny status.

      Of course investors fleeing will attract the interest of the press, in their vulture form :)

      [Oops, posted prematurely before - feel free to mod that one down :]

  • by strAtEdgE ( 151030 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:47PM (#7939015)
    ... would be to do anything other than tell SCO to take a hike.
  • by payndz ( 589033 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:47PM (#7939020)
    Result #1:

    "Bunch of assholes."

  • Not Unix (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939021)
    "Certainly if they're using 10,000 Linux servers that include our intellectual property as part of Unix, we would want them to license," said Blake Stowell, a SCO spokesman.

    But Blake, Linux isn't Unix, it's a Unix clone. Oh, and one more day [scocountdown.com] to put up or shut up.

  • by 4lex ( 648184 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939022) Homepage Journal
    Since on monday we are going to see some legal action, I suppose this is the usual some hot air to distract the attention.

    I, however, wonder if this really can affect a judicial decision... I think it won't.
  • by rune2 ( 547599 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939023) Homepage
    all of the searches for "extortion" and "blackmail" start bringing up the SCO homepage at the top of the results.
  • Extortion (Score:5, Insightful)

    by young_hacker_1991 ( 739658 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939025) Journal
    This is extortion, plain and simple. With an IPO around the corner, SCO knows that the mere hint of potential litigation can seriously hurt Google. Darl McBride is no more than a hoodlum. I hope he gets what he deserves, but history has shown that as long as they're incorporated, gangs can do what they please.
    • Re:Extortion (Score:3, Interesting)

      by whovian ( 107062 )
      I don't suppose SCO wants a cut of Google's stock and/or options in exchange for a linux license? That could be major extortion from my POV:
      SCO waits for any run-up in the Google stock and then bails. Voila--instant $$.

      Money is the last thing I want to see SCO get its hands on.

  • Why does it seem... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bloxnet ( 637785 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:48PM (#7939028)
    ...that rather than any legitimate claims, SCO keeps trying to press the issue with companies who may be able to purchase them outright?

    I really do wish I could see some justice being done regarding these clowns though. Aside from the blatant pump and dump fiascos, another issue with approaching Google now is the threat of what this type of issue could do to their IPO. Seriously, someone needs to slap SCO down for good as this circus has gone way beyond tolerable limits.
    • by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:21PM (#7939327) Journal
      Why? Because they want to be bought outright, perhaps :)

      Traditional IP extortion wisdom holds that you go after the smaller fish first, build up a 'war chest' with your 'winnings', and then take on the jackpot companies.

      SCO went after IBM first, probably in hopes they'd be bought. IBM didn't bite and called their bluff. Now they are going after companies whose core products rely on Linux. Red hat, and now Google. Since IBM and Red Hat are comfortable with the idea of duking it out with SCO in court, I doubt that Google is going to meekly pony up the license fees.
    • by RPoet ( 20693 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @04:27PM (#7939811) Journal
      Remember kids, you can't spell "fiasco" without SCO.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:49PM (#7939033)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Not a Surprise (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BoldAC ( 735721 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:49PM (#7939034)
    SCO must stay in the positive public light to keep their stock up. So this is no shock.

    When SCO dips, they hit a new hot target--this time it is google. What a shock they hit google right as they announce that they will IPO.

    SCO should just die.

    AC
  • by pair-a-noyd ( 594371 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:50PM (#7939040)
    Google may have one of the largest Linux bases around and they aren't going to play this crap.
    I just feel it. If Google does fold, that will be a very bad thing for everyone. If google tells sco to go to hell then I would call it a major win in the many skirmishes that are still to come.

    This could be the keystone case..
  • by rusty0101 ( 565565 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:50PM (#7939046) Homepage Journal
    But then SCO hasn't been showing a lot of examples of being bright, have they?

    It's perhaps not the best move to try to extort money out of a company that can show that all you are capable of is extortion. I would suspect that if someone at Google wanted to, they could find a copy of the source to Unix online some place, and use a few spare cycles to compare the source code to the entire Linux source that they are using, and prove that SCO is full of hot air.
  • Context (Score:5, Insightful)

    by warmcat ( 3545 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:52PM (#7939069)
    This slashdot post [slashdot.org] adds the context you need to understand the wild statements coming out of SCO.

    Partial quote: ''Anytime the price dips too low for public consumption or a planned sale, they can make another outrageous announcement and pump it back up. ''

    To understand SCO you need to stop taking their announcements seriously and look at them as a two-year-old misbehaving to get attention from its parents.

  • by hedley ( 8715 ) <hedley@pacbell.net> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:54PM (#7939091) Homepage Journal
    IPO backers hate this kind of cloud just before the offereing. I am sure SCO wants to use this factor to get a payment quickly.

    Any of these companies that publicly boasted about how many Linux servers probably are dialing down that kind of announcement now. I remember a video showing the nVidia data centre, many 1000's of linux servers. This is chum in the water for SCO's insatiable quest for lucre.

    Google should just shine them on, make all the noises like they are going to play ball and then stiff them after the IPO.

    Hedley
  • by caferace ( 442 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:56PM (#7939105) Homepage
    "This is very serious! We've sent several emails to "support@google.com" over the last twenty minutes, and to this date they refuse to acknowledge their reprehensible behaviour.

    As such, we are forced to protect our (insert random hyperbole here) and will be sending a cease-and-desist eail to that contact shortly!"

  • Public relations (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phisheadrew ( 526202 ) <phisheadrew&cinci,rr,com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:57PM (#7939115)
    Whoever is in charge of SCO's public relations department should never have another job anywhere. Ever. Every linux geek on the planet already hates them with a passion, and now they attack every linux AND windows/mac geek's favorite tool? Maybe they should team up with whoever is doing the same at the RIAA and Microsoft, and just form one giant asshole of a company to make it easier for everyone to figure out who to bash on slashdot.
  • Will they cave in? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Albanach ( 527650 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:57PM (#7939117) Homepage
    With rumours of an imminent IPO flying round the Internet and in the financial press, you have to wonder how Google's execs will react to an SCO approach. Any pending litigation could put a dent in their offer price - even a few percent makes a big difference when you value the company at $12 billion.

    Google have over 10,000 [google.co.uk] linux servers in their cluster. That's a licensing fee of $7 million. It might be a lot easier for them just to write the cheque.

    Assuming the Google execs will also have a significant share in the company, any reduction in the company value could hit them in the pocket personally.

    • by bwhaley ( 410361 ) <bwhaley@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:20PM (#7939321)
      you have to wonder how Google's execs will react to an SCO approach.

      Hmm.. I don't think they'll pay up, for a couple of reasons.

      First of all, the infamous Joe Sixpack has never heard of SCO, perhaps not even of Unix or Linux. He hasn't been paying any attention to this ridiculous lawsuit and never will. Google, on the other hand, is a household name. A lawsuit from a company with a dubious background (much like the SearchKing fiasco) is not going to make much of a difference in Google's IPO.

      Secondly, Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Google's founders (and executives!), aren't your average dummy. These guys are know what BS SCO is making up and I'm confident that they'll react appropriately.

    • by cyberformer ( 257332 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:29PM (#7939380)
      It all depends on whether Google's founders plan for it to be a real company or just another doomed dot-com that makes them rich in an over-hyped IPO and then disappears. Paying SCO would be very stupid in the long-term, because it will:
      • Show that Google is an easy mark for millions of other scammers, willing to pay out for supposed copyright violations without evidence. Google's position is further weakened by the fact that the Google cache (on which its search engine depends) really can be seen as violating the letter of the copyright law.

      • Demonstrate that Google's "don't be evil" maxim is just PR, turning everyone in the IT industry against the company. Thus is actually important in the short-term too, because dot-com IPOs depend mostly on public sentiment about a company, not rational revenue projections.

      • Cost Google a lot of money. SCO has repeatedly stated that it views contracts as a weapon, something that should warn anyone against entering into any kind of agreement with them. $7 million is just the start.

      Having said all that, I don't think Google will buckle. It has a history of standing up to lawsuits
    • No, this is great! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Slur ( 61510 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @05:55PM (#7940562) Homepage Journal
      Google has a famous name, and anything they release to the press is going to get attention everywhere. All they need to do is refuse to comply, explain in a press release what SCO must do to bolster their claims before they will comply, and they will educate some of the public mind.

      Google pretty much has to respond to this publicly, since they do have that IPO pending.

      I think SCO has made their biggest mistake this time.
  • by linuxislandsucks ( 461335 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:59PM (#7939136) Homepage Journal
    what SCOX faield to mention is the fact that Google execs in fact rejected SCOX's claims..

    The reason you have not heard he rebuttle from Goolge is because of the upcoming quite period per IPO rules..

    SCOX stock is about to hit the bottom in less than 20 days

    you doubt this? take a look at the difference between the bid and ask.. when that spread gets biug it menas that theere are shorts and puts drivng theprice anot real value..once the judgement against SCOX is made in januaury those players wil have no where to go with their stock..

  • Wont work (Score:3, Interesting)

    by taj ( 32429 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:00PM (#7939150) Homepage

    SCO's plan here is to show up to Googles IPO and fart ruining the 'record one day pop.' Nice threat. Here are a couple reasons it wont work.

    1) This blows up in their face. They told the courts that they are not threatening redhat customers. Google is a Redhat customer.

    2) Google is in a unique position. Unlike even the respectable IPO's of the dot gone days, google is being essentially forced to go public. They don't need the investment banking and other frills. They have to IPO for accounting reasons.

    Another company that had to do this? Microsoft.
  • by 0WaitState ( 231806 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:01PM (#7939155)
    As part of their pump-and-dump strategy based on the premise of a viable lawsuit, SCO will try to attach themselves to every week's top news story. In coming weeks:

    SCO bills NASA! (suspects Linux installed on Mars Rover)

    SCO sues to stop presidential election tally! (unlicensed linux used in vote-counting machines)

    SCO demands 25 million dollar reward for capture of Saddam! (We withheld a linux license so he couldn't legally use that terrorist O/S)

    SCO requests injunction to stop sales of Ipod (Darl says they "could be hacked to run Linux")

    • by Dave2 Wickham ( 600202 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:28PM (#7939375) Journal

      Hey, why not go international and attempt to get licence money out of the Beagle 2 people - their workstation for sending/recieving data to/from Beagle 2 runs Linux... Hey, the workstation even runs Spacecraft Control Operating System (SCOS) - clearly taken from SCO's name!

      /me awaits the trolls about how Linux can't cope with getting signals from outer space, so isn't ready for the desktop.

  • by gaijin99 ( 143693 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:01PM (#7939156) Journal
    I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around the entire thing. How is it even possible to demand money from people for an infringement that you won't proove? I mean, if I went around saying that WinXP had some of my code, and I wanted $699 per XP user; *but* I won't actually say what XP code was stolen, I'd be laughed off the face of the planet.

    Is there some bizarre "you don't have to show infringement" legal clause I'm unaware of? I know that the judge has required that SCO show proof (in a couple of months), but why did the judge give them a couple of months? What's wrong with: "show proof now, or I dismiss the case with prejudice"? Was the judge required to give SCO extortion time, or did the judge just think "gee, they seem honest, I'll give them a few months before requiring that they show proof"?

    What really baffles me is that so much of the mainstream press coverage isn't even mentioning the "SCO won't say what's infringing" bit... I understand why SCO doesn't want to say what's infringing: they want Linux to infringe so they can collect royalties. I just don't understand why any sane judge would give them even a couple of months of blackmail time before requiring proof.

    • by Frodo420024 ( 557006 ) <henrik@fHORSEangorn.dk minus herbivore> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:55PM (#7939577) Homepage Journal
      I know that the judge has required that SCO show proof (in a couple of months), but why did the judge give them a couple of months?

      Actually, that was just one month. And it's up on Monday :)

      What's wrong with: "show proof now, or I dismiss the case with prejudice"? Was the judge required to give SCO extortion time, or did the judge just think "gee, they seem honest, I'll give them a few months before requiring that they show proof"?

      The judge was to grant one or more of the 'Motions to compel discovery' (two by IBM, one by SCOX). IBM basically said in theirs "Get us evidence of wrongdoing". SCOX said "Show us your Unix that we may be able to find some of your wrongdoing."

      The hudge easily gave IBM what they had asked for, and gave a time frame for that. One month to produce the evidence (over the holiday season - not much :), and a couple weeks for IBM to digest that. Dismissing the case was not an option at this point. Has nothing to do with the judge favoring SCOX - she was very obviously unimpressed by their behaviour. Read up on Groklaw if you need.

      (How did that comment I'm replying to get rated 'Insightful'??)

  • by Malcontent ( 40834 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:01PM (#7939158)
    I can this happening.

    SCO approaches google with the following offer.

    1) Google agrees to pay SCO for the license to use linux. But instead of a cash transaction google agrees to buy SCO stock at a discount or it buys SCO stock options. MS has done similar deals with Apple and Borland.

    2) Google and SCO put out a joing press release saying that Google has agreed to pay SCO X million dollars for the licence to use Linux. Google also states that they looked into SCOs allegations and that they feel that SCO is the legitamate and de-facto owner of linux. Google urges other companies to get in compliance to avoid lawsuits.

    3) SCO stock goes up tenfold overnight.

    It's a win-win for SCO and Google. MS will most likely chip in to sweeten the pot by financing the google purchase of SCO stock. They could do this by buying a few percent of google (knowing full well that they will get the money back on the IPO).

    Every body involved would make billions of dollars overnight so I definately think this is a likely scenario.

    I can only think of one reason why the above scenario would not happen and that's if the owners of google are people who would put their ethics and morality above profits. But then again we live in America.
  • by jlechem ( 613317 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:03PM (#7939180) Homepage Journal

    I don't even use Linux and I'm worried I might get sued.

  • Timing is everything (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Omega1045 ( 584264 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:04PM (#7939192)
    I wonder about the timing of this, with big IPO talk surrounding Google. Scenario: SCO believes Google will settle on some sort of licensing to avoid a hassle before the upcoming IPO. If Google to sign a contract, SCO has a VERY BIG customer which they could point to in the court of public (or corporate) opinion. Lets face it, SCO really doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. There strategy may very well be to scare companies into licensing (obvious). Upper level management is not very IT savvy. If Google signs a deal with SCO, you might see many more corporate sheep following Google's lead. I don't believe Google will do this. They know it is BS like the rest of us.
  • by koa ( 95614 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:20PM (#7939319)
    By SCO spreading FUD about a possible threat to Google's bottom line, how could Google expect their IPO to be damaged in the event that they get litigated against?

    Can Google claim damages from SCO if their value as a company is hurt?

    I say this because if I was in charge of google, I'd laugh them out of my office.
    I don't expect Google is even seriously considering paying $699 * ~10,000 = 6.9mil...

  • by -tji ( 139690 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:31PM (#7939394) Journal
    Obviously SCOX picked a company that they thought would do anything to avoid bad press or litigation. In the sensitive time before an IPO, this is the last thing they need. So, yes.. it's basically extortion.

    These tactics may work, on companies that are vulnerable to FUD, Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

    This is why it's a bad move to pick Google.. They could hardly find a worse candidate. They are full of young, Linux savvy engineers, and their CEO is Eric Schmidt, who was top techie at Sun for many years, and then CEO at Novell - he definitely knows what's up both in Unix history and the SCOX licensing with Novell . The Uncertainty and Doubt areas are gone.. like most of us, they see the SCOX claims for the bullshit they are. The only question is whether the Fear about their successful IPO will win out. I could hardly blame them for settling quietly, but I hope they do not.

    The fact that SCOX is now publicizing this suggests that Google is not going the 'settle quietly' route. If they were, we would be reading SCOX press releases about the great success of their licensing program.
  • by LordoftheFrings ( 570171 ) <(null) (at) (fragfest.ca)> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:35PM (#7939420) Homepage
    It's pretty funny, if you search "sco site:google.com," the first result is this: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software /Operating_Systems/Unix/SCO/ And the category listing is as follows:
    Boycott, Lawsuits (409)

    Linux (3467)
    UnitedLinux (11)
    UnixWare (1)
  • by egrubs ( 738600 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:44PM (#7939485) Homepage
    1. Linux
    2. IBM
    3. Google

    Boss, I'm all for being deliciously evil. But are you sure about the little girls and the puppies?

    Your humble servant
    -D

  • by lfourrier ( 209630 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:48PM (#7939521)
    SCO sued International Business Machines Corp. last year and sent notice to thousands of companies to pay to use Linux. SCO said it now has Unix license agreements with more than 6,000 companies.

    I think this part, while technically exact, is written in a way to make believe 6000 companies paid unix licence for the right to run linux, notably because of the use of now in the second sentence. Can someone enlighten me, please ?
    1) As english is not my mother tongue, my paranoia about SCO surfaced, and in fact, the meaning I perceived is not perceptible by native english speaker.
    or
    2) Forbes want SCO to succeed (again all those commies who believe in free things (imagine free, as in : no market, and no need for economic journal ( and they are again IP, too, and we are producer of IP, so we must fight them (but of course, every OSS person knows that OSS exist because of IP, not against it (and my teacher always said you should not imbricate parenthesis when writing literary text, contrary to mathematics (but perhaps this text is not very literary)))))).
    or
    3) The Forbes journalist, as many many many other, just copied/pasted a press release without checking, perhaps even without understanding.
    or
    4) Some other reason I didn't think about.

    So, what's your advice?
  • like (Score:4, Funny)

    by relrelrel ( 737051 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @03:55PM (#7939572)
    SCO: "Pay up, 'or else..'"
    Google: "Fuck off and die, shithead"
    SCO: "Die? Now? Are you crazy?! We got atleast a year before that happens!"
  • by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @04:29PM (#7939825) Homepage Journal
    ... be concerned. Be very concerned.

    I've heard a lot of mumbling about how SCO doesn't have any evidence that the code exists, blah blah blah. Just want to remind you all that the OSS Community would be VERY quick to remove it if it were found. That means if SCO wins, suddenly everybody will have an updated distro, they won't be able to go after anybody for money.

    If they can convince Google that they are in danger, I'd be worried that SCO showed them something that Google would be under NDA to discuss.

    All I'm urging is caution.
  • What floors me... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by An Anonymous Hero ( 443895 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @06:57PM (#7941004)
    ...is the spin they manage to get from journalists. The Reuters wire consists of 8 sentences. Of those, four quote SCO claims with direct attribution -- that's OK. But wouldn't one expect the four others, where the journalist speaks, to provide some balance and context? Well, here they are:
    #3 --
    Linux (...) is based on the widely-used Unix platform.
    Stated as fact. As if no one ever argued that it's only "based" insofar as it reimplements POSIX and other public domain standards and APIs.
    #5 --
    SCO sued International Business Machines Corp. last year and sent notice to thousands of companies to pay to use Linux.

    #6 -- SCO said it now has Unix license agreements with more than 6,000 companies.

    Falsely suggests that the 6,000 licenses in #6 (legacy Unixware?) were sold as a result of the notices in #5.
    #8 --
    Markets are abuzz with increasing speculation that Google will seek an initial public offering sometime this year.
    This not-so-subtly concludes that SCO may be about to hit the jackpot. Is this whole argument supposed to be journalism?
  • by axxackall ( 579006 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @09:55PM (#7942005) Homepage Journal
    I think Microsoft has much more money, and yes, they use Linux for their firewalls. And I doubt that MIcrosoft has cleaned their installed linux kernels from a stolen SCO code.
  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @10:17PM (#7942093)
    In six months, scox hasn't sold any "linux licenses" and scox hasn't sued any linux end users, in spite of numerous threats to do so "soon." Scox will not sell you a linux license if you beg them, many people - including me - have already called scox to them know that we're using linux.

    Scox has told so many outright lies, it's hard to keep track. Here is a partial list:

    1) Lie: SCO will revoke IBM's rights to sell, distribute, or use UNIX.
    Truth: SCO does not have the authority to revoke IBM's UNIX rights.

    2) Lie: SCO will audit AIX users.
    Truth: SCO never did such an audit, and has no rights to do such an audit.

    3) Lie: SCO owns C++.
    Truth: SCO may own a very old obsolete version.

    4) Lie: The Berkeley Packet Filter code in Linux is "obfuscated" SCO code.
    Truth: Jay Schulist, who never had access to SCO code, implemented it from scratch.

    5) Lie: We've gone in, we've done a deep dive into Linux, we've compared the source code of Linux with UNIX every which way but Tuesday
    Truth: Experts have shown that SCO used a simple, primitive text search based on a few keywords.

    6) Lie: The IP protection legal team is on pure contingency
    Truth: The legal team is billing at a 2/3 discounted rate with the possibility of contingent commissions

    7) Lie: We will show rock solid evidence at SCOForum in Las Vegas
    Truth: SCO was quickly shown to not have any ownership of the SCOForum evidence. The source code displayed at SCOForum might have been considered an honest mistake, if Sontag hadn't continued to dispute what was already irrefutably proven.

    8) Lie: SCO's 2002 UNIX source release was "non-commercial" and excludes 32-bit code
    Truth: "The text of the letter, sent January 23, 2002, by Bill Broderick, Director of Licensing Services for Caldera [now SCO], in fact makes no mention of "non-commercial use" restrictions, does not include the words "non-commercial use" anywhere and specifically mentions "32-bit 32V Unix" as well as the 16-bit versions."

    9) Lie: non-compete clause in the Novell agreement.
    Truth: no such clause.

    10) Lie: SCO claims that Linux header files are "infringing code."

    Truth: The header files are provably original and are noncopyrightable in any event.

    11) Lie: We have been off meeting for the last several months with large corporate Linux end users. The pipeline is very healthy there.
    Truth: The pipeline is empty. All inquiries have been to assess SCO's claims and liability exposure.

    12) Lie: SCO's expert witnesses are "MIT Mathematicians".
    Truth: Among various backpedaling statements, Paul Hatch, a SCO spokesman, wrote in a statement to The Tech ,"'To clarify, the individuals reviewing the code had been involved with MIT labs in the past, but are not currently at MIT." ither SCO lied to the public (saying they existed) or SCO lied to the court (saying they didn't exist).

    15) Lie: (To the Utah Judge on 12/5) SCO will make a copyright claim in two days, but no longer than a week
    Truth: Many weeks later and a copyright claim has not yet been made.

    16) Lie: Last August SCO claimed to have sold Linux licenses to a Fortune 500 company that was not MS or SUN.
    Truth: According to SCO's SEC filings, that never happend.

    17) Lie: "several" other Linux license sales SCO has claimed to have made since the first.
    Truth: According to SCO's SEC filings, that never happend.

    18) Lie: the introductory price for licenses that was to increase on Oct 15
    Truth: Once again, SCO changed their minds.

    19) Lie: SCO claimed it would file against RedHat for copyright infringment and conspiracy
    Truth: No such charges were filed

    20) Lie: SCO was going to appeal the fine imposed in Germany.
    Truth: that never happend.

    21) Lie: RedHat opposes software copyrights (Darl's open letter).
    Truth: unlike SCO, RedHat respects copyrights.

    22) Lie: entire sales force selling Linux "licenses."
    Truth: no evidence of

"I've finally learned what `upward compatible' means. It means we get to keep all our old mistakes." -- Dennie van Tassel

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