EU Agrees to Share Airline Passenger Data with US 49
securitas writes "The European Union has agreed to provide the US government with detailed airline passenger data. The agreement allows the collection of 34 pieces of data per person and limits storage of the data to three and a half years. 'The United States originally wanted to collect 60 pieces of data and keep it for 50 years.' Previously, the EU had objected to the plan because it violated EU privacy legislation, the data-protection directive. The plan is similar to the CAPPS II passenger profiling system. The data may be used for 'secondary purposes' other than anti-terrorism measures if requested from US Customs by other law enforcement agencies."
Re:About Joe Schludnick (Score:1)
I've always wondered what stewardesses talk about when they withdraw to their little alcove...
I've canceled by US trips (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:1)
Fool!
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:1, Insightful)
It's too bad, the US is just shooting themselves in the foot by discouraging us from spending our money there. The ironic part is that I saved a lot of money from my days of working in US (before they discovered terrorism), and now I get to spend it all in Canada, Europe
My experience (Score:4, Interesting)
I went to Boston in march 2003. There were four check points between the plane and the outside of the airport. At the second checkpoint, the security guy ran out of forms for me to fill out so he let me pass without filling in a form.
When I got to the next checkpoint, I was taken aside by two cops and asked loads of questions because I didn't have the form from the previous checkpoint. Clearly I was a good candidate for terrorism. The questions were pointlessly invasive (my job, my annual wage!, my country of origin, any family in the US, etc.). I didn't mind giving the answers (I could have lied), but it was such a stupid process.
What conclusions could they possibly draw from my verbal answer to "What is your annual income?". I'm sure Bin Laden would really be caught out by that one
Re:My experience (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:My experience (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't care about your actual income. They're just looking for a range, and if you can give a valid answer.
For instance, a Turk comes to the US, purporting to be an American, and is asked his job and his annual income.
He might hem and haw for a few seconds doing the conversion in his head (strike 1)
And he may well be off by a factor of 10 or 100.
"Job?"
"computer programmer"
"annual income?"
[let's see
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:2)
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:1)
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:2)
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:4, Interesting)
It's like buying CDs. You get the music, and 50cent does go to the artist, but 10 dollars/euros is given the the RIAA.
This was partly explained in the book "Why do people hate America?". (Not a very good book.) To foreigners, America is represented by it's foreign policy, and as a democracy, it's foreign policy is understood to be the will of the people.
In Belgium I met a guy that also wouldn't go to America, his reason was that every dollar he spent would be paying for an American bullet in a foreign country.
It's not personal. I don't dislike Americans.
In a few years time, the EU could be as bad, and I'd understand then if people said they didn't want to come to the EU. But I wouldn't leave the EU, I'll stay and fix it, like I hope Americans will fix America.
Re:I've canceled by US trips (Score:1)
Sheesh (Score:3, Interesting)
Like McDonald's late-night security guards. Or anyone who whips up some FBI letterhead and sends a fax. You'd be surprised how easily organizations will fling about our beverage selections and hotel porno rentals without a care for our privacy or their sense of morality.
Can anyone think of any act, any act at all, where a United States citizen is guaranteed privacy by law? Are phone calls with your lawyer and conversations with your psychiatrist still honored, or is that gone too?
Hm. I wonder if I can get Ted Kennedy's hotel porno rentals. Anyone got a template for FBI letterhead?
Re:Sheesh (Score:5, Insightful)
I still, however, maintain that a constitutionally guaranteed right to individual privacy (encompassing medical information, all activities in or around a home or residence, purchases and other financial information, and library rentals) would do more good, especially under our current neo-Draconian administration, with it's flagrant disregard for the individual.
Sorry, that almost turned into a political rant. *goes to get more coffee*
Re:Sheesh (Score:2)
they already do, usually claiming "company secrets". privacy is no more than the right to have a secret, but privacy is a HUMAN right. and companies are not human.
Re:Sheesh (Score:2)
Stealing, murder, ana1 s3x in 34 of the 50 states...the list goes on.
Source of all that data? (Score:4, Funny)
"European officials had balked at the U.S. request to get access to additional information airlines may collect that could reveal more detailed personal data, such as medical conditions and political affiliation."
This implies that airlines have that information in the first place. Political affiliation? How can they get such information, and why do they? This is a concern even before they start making it available to anyone.
I voted for my country to join the EU. I would have reconsidered this vote today.
Re:Source of all that data? (Score:2, Insightful)
Inaccurate data gathered by sloppy / unlawful means could make US customs using
the date all the more dangerous.
--
To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom -- Scooby Doo
[...] as we know, there are known knowns, there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are so
Re:Source of all that data? (Score:3, Funny)
What really puzzled them was the request for movie watching and shopping habits.
Re:Source of all that data? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've read a few articles expounding on this; the point wasn't _just_ that it violates a principle of privacy and sovereignty, but also puts forward the question, "do you realize exactly what kind of data airlines collect on you?"
Think about it. Dietary habits, travel patterns. Possibly medical history. What else? What do you think ticket agents are writing on those screens you can't see during checkin, when they're frantically typing away? I don't know, do you? The consensus appeared to be that airlines keep some pretty quirky stuff on file about you, including the occasional nasty comment.
What kind of information do you give away when signing up for frequent flyer programs, including that airline miles credit card? Bang, there go your spending habits.
Not sure I'm comfortable with Uncle Sam having that as a matter of routine.
What's new? (Score:5, Insightful)
EU legislation is one thing, but most major European airlines have freely shared ALL passenger info with the US authorities for almost two years, despite questions and objections by various political bodies. The message is clear: If you care about liberty, privacy and those sort of things and you're not an American, than just stay out. Thanks to the 9/11 attacks, the Bush administration now has world-wide carte blance to invade anyone's privacy.
</Rant>
--
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable -- John F. Kennedy
Re:What's new? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point you make. Unfortunately, that's not entirely an option for a lot of us.
Bush aside (a lot of this horseshit's been going on for years before he entered the picture--think "war on drugs", "encryption export controls", etc.) there's a long-running problem a lot of Europeans have with the dichotomy of "US the beacon of liberty and progress" and US home of John Ashcroft & his ilk."
I'm a US-Swiss dual citizen living in Europe--I've seriously considered giving up my US passport due to ideological concerns. I haven't done so, as I have a lot of close family in the US, whom I like to see, and stand to inherit some property. Sort of a conundrum, no?
Likewise, it's not much of a choice if you live in a country which has something like biometric identification in its passports mandated by the US departmen of . What if I never wanted to enter the US, but maybe decided to head over to France for the weekend? Tough cookies, please place your retina here.
Re:What's new? (Score:1)
This is not something you can hide from; it just appears to be. Currently, I work for a Dutch company with offices around the world, approx. half in the US. Until now my employer hasn't forced me to visit US offices, but I am reluctant to go there. I figure I can always quit my job and start working for a locally oriented company, but European and Amercan economies are so closely linked that eventually you'll be affected by US policies directly, or -- as you pointed out by the biometric ID example -
Re:What's new? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:What's new? (Score:3, Insightful)
Second, you don't know what's going to be a crime in the future. One day you're donating to a Pakistani religious charity, the next day you're supporting terrorism. The law ain't static.
Re:What's new? (Score:2)
If all goes well, you'll be out in a day with appologies, but there is nothing keeping the Bush admin from sending you to Guantanamo bay and keeping you there until you confess.
If you think privacy is an issue only to criminals you've never though about the Gestapo, KGB, Spanish inquisition,
Re:What's new? (Score:2)
What are the data? (Score:1)
Re:What are the data? (Score:1)
...and why so long?
The United States originally wanted to collect 60 pieces of data and keep it for 50 years.
What pratical purpose would be served by knowing that I ordered chicken 50 years ago?
well that's all lovely but... (Score:4, Informative)
Still, at least they'll have all the details of the deceased.
More liberties given up for the illusion of greater security
CJC
Re:well that's all lovely but... (Score:3, Funny)
Still, at least they'll have all the details of the deceased.
Soon to be overheard at a crash cleanup and analysis site:
Worker 1: Man, they were ripped to shreds. The peices are so small we haven't been able to match up a single identification yet.
Worker 2: Yeah. About the biggest peice we've found is a weiner wearing a glow-in-the-dark condom, heh.
Worker 1: Wait a minute, did you say wearing a glow-in-the-dark condom?
Worker 2: Yeah, a real pisse
well (Score:5, Interesting)
Do we European get the US data too then ??????
Re:well (Score:1)
Re:well (Score:2)
but after the massacre's in Istanbul then?
Greetings from Airstrip One (Score:4, Informative)
The US and UK governments: bringing freedom and democracy to the world.
And does anyone seriously believe (Score:3, Interesting)
That the US will delete this data when the three years are over? More likely, it will be "removed" from one database only to go into another more classified database at the NSA or FBI.
welcome to the land of the free (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't think that only data from non-americans is collected, it is data from anyone coming in via an European airline.
It's disappointing to see that the American public doesn't give a damn, and even more that the European Parliament is likely to give in to another US bullying.
Hrm (Score:1)
Re:Hrm (Score:1)
My last flight was my last flight (Score:5, Interesting)
Screw 'em. I'll spend my money elsewhere.
Re:My last flight was my last flight (Score:2)
Re:My last flight was my last flight (Score:2)
That's the wonderful thing about being self employed. I don't have to worry about that.
To catch a foreigner IN THE US: got to scan ALL US (Score:1)
If someone bad gets into the US then do you think they'll retain that same persona ? No. They'll swap IDs. For them to be caught again given they get picked up on e.g. a speeding ticket, then the fun starts.
Superficially assuming that their (fake) ID is a good American ID then the only way to pick up if this is really valid is to perform some