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Spam Government Operating Systems Software The Courts Windows Your Rights Online News

D-Squared Can Resume Pop-Ups, For Now 67

Posted by timothy from the got-firebird dept.
linuxwrangler writes "According to this SF Gate article, U.S. District Judge Andre Davis said there was insufficient evidence for him to grant a preliminary injunction preventing D-Squared from using Microsoft's messenger service to send pop-up ads to Windows users. D-Squared used the Windows messenger service to pop-up ads as often as every 10 minutes. The ads promoted its product -- software to stop 'these unwanted and illegal pop-up messages forever with the click of a button' - a practice the FTC called 'high-tech extortion.'"
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D-Squared Can Resume Pop-Ups, For Now More

D-Squared Can Resume Pop-Ups, For Now

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  • Is the Judge saying.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by SpaceLifeForm ( 228190 ) on Monday December 15, 2003 @09:33PM (#7731019)
    that the blame lies with Microsoft?

  • Damned If You Do... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday December 15, 2003 @09:38PM (#7731056) Homepage
    software to stop 'these unwanted and illegal pop-up messages forever with the click of a button'

    OK. Let's all read this. Now this is either true or untrue. Let's take a look.

    Option 1: the statement is true. That means that pop-ups are illegal, and hence the company is knowingly and willfuly violating the law. If this is the situation, they are in trouble.

    Option 2: the statement is false. That means that pop-ups are NOT illegal. Hence the company is lying to extort money through practicing false advertising (along with probably being in violation of some of those new anti-spam laws).

    Seems to me they have managed to write themselves into a corner. Now if we add to that some of the other charges that we might be able to make stick, they're in deeeeeeeeeeeeep trouble. Let's see what else we can come up with, shall we?

    • Harassment - Isn't sending the same ad to someone and interupting what they are doing every 10 minutes harassment?
    • Junk Fax - I suppose you could argue this one if spam e-mail counts
    • Spam Laws - Mentioned above, this is spamming isn't it?
    • Anti-hacker laws - Aren't there laws that make it illegal to use someone else's computer without their permission? Well surly forcing a computer to display something against the user's will would count.
    • Violating TOS - Surly what these guys are doing is in violation of the terms of service of their ISP. Sue the ISP to get them shut off, and they'll be droped like a brick. Contine ad-infinitum, or the spammers get a clue, which ever comes first (take a guess).

    Of course, spamming the spammer (and their lawyer) with these pop-up messages might finally do it. Am I the only one who thinks that someone who's stupid enough to do this in the first place probably isn't using their own software?

      • Fraud - The D-Squared name is confusingly similar to Square-D [squared.com].

    • Re:Damned If You Do... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Contine ad-infinitum, or the spammers get a clue, which ever comes first"

      No, ads infinitum are just what we don't want! ;p

    • Re:Damned If You Do... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @03:14AM (#7732747) Journal
      The judge didn't say that they were in the right.

      He just said that he didn't have enough evidence to issue a preliminary injunction.

      The only time these should be issued is if there is immediate, severe, and irrevocable harm being caused by an action, and the judge feels that the harm-causer is unlikely to win their court case.

      I'd say this is pretty reasonable. The idea is to keep law from becoming someone's subjective opinion -- the court is where the real arguments will be heard. Preliminary injunctions are emergency actions, not to be taken in every case.
      • The case is not closed. However, the judge found that as 0x0d0a put it, the only time these should be issued is if there is immediate, severe, and irrevocable harm being caused by an action. This does not mean that D-Squared has won the case. It just means that their actions are not causing enough damage to warrant cessation and that the company is legally allowed to continue its actions until a decision is reached with respect to the legality of such actions.

        Basically, the judge is enforcing a bit of the
    • Anti-hacker laws - Aren't there laws that make it illegal to use someone else's computer without their permission? Well surly forcing a computer to display something against the user's will would count.
      your not forcing the computer to display the message, since users can easily turn it of. now, i agree that its immoral because most users dont know how to turn them of, but if it would be illegal, could you not make the same argument for most IM? after all, if i contact somebody on ICQ, their computer will p
    • Under California Penal Code 502 it is illegal to access another's computer without permission.
  • What does firebird have to do windows messenger pop-ups, timothy?

  • I have an idea (Score:5, Funny)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Monday December 15, 2003 @09:46PM (#7731148)
    Let's all send a large box of manure to D-Squared headquarters, with a note inside saying "For only $29.95, you can stop these illegal and unwanted mailings forever!" Or better yet, disable the damn message service! Or even better still -- run Linux.

  • Stop that popup in 10 easy steps clicks for free. (Score:5, Informative)

    by bryanp ( 160522 ) on Monday December 15, 2003 @09:59PM (#7731257)
    1. Start
    2. Settings
    3. Control Panel.
    4. Administrative Tools.
    5. Services.
    6. Messenger
    7. Change Startup Type to "Manual"
    8. Stop.
    9. Apply.
    10. OK.

    • Re:Stop that popup in 10 easy steps clicks for fre (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I got hit on #5

      "The snapin below, reference in this document has been restricted by policy. Contact your administrator for details. Services."

      Any suggestions?

    • If the problem can be eliminated through a Control Panel setting, charging for software to stop it sounds like consumer fraud to me.

      Of course, as a Unix person, just about everything associated with MS Windows seems like that to me. :)

    • [Instructions for disabling windows Messenger SErvice]

      Your instructions are correct, but I'd note that getting spam Messenger pop-ups is an indication that the recipient either doesn't have, or has incorectly configured, his firewall.

      Since not having a firewall opens you to many other abuses than just Messenger popups, better advice to affected users might be to get the free Kerio Personal Firewall [kerio.com], or another firewall product.

      Getting a firewall and not disabling the Messenger Service also allows the se
      • Since not having a firewall opens you to many other abuses than just Messenger popups, better advice to affected users might be to get the free Kerio Personal Firewall, or another firewall product.

        Getting a firewall and not disabling the Messenger Service also allows the several other Windows services that use Messenger for reporting to the end-user to continue to make those reports.

        I can't agree.

        I've found the "personal firewall" to be one of the biggest disasters in recent memory. It has essentially
        • They cost money.

          ZoneAlarm has a free version (for non-commercial use), as does Kerio (Personal Firewall).

          Requiring a firewall is *always* a sign that you are either using broken software or you have misconfigured your software.

          No, it's a sign that you are a realist. Whatever patches you download for windows, theres still the RPC ports open, and when know the trouble they've caused recently.

          In addition to this, what if the user opens an attachment that just happens to be a trojan that captures the
          • No, it's a sign that you are a realist. Whatever patches you download for windows, theres still the RPC ports open, and when know the trouble they've caused recently.

            No. Most Microsoft server software is broken WRT to security and should not be used. RPC should not be active. [www.hsc.fr]

            In addition to this, what if the user opens an attachment that just happens to be a trojan that captures their every key-stroke (including their personal banking passwords and/or credit card no's), connects to the internet and se
        • It tends to get users worried about attacks that they could otherwise just ignore.

          No, it allows them to continue ignoring them in greater safety.

          In a normal system, any servers you have running should (a) support authentication and (b) not allow remote attacks inward. I never use firewalls for my small networks, because it's entirely unnecessary. If I manage to mask a security problem by slapping up a firewall, all that means is that I now have a security vulnerability that can be exploited if someone ma

          • Where do you source your guaranteed bug-free software ?

            The whole piece of software isn't bug free. The only thing I'm concerned about is the auth system (generally a relatively small, simple piece of code) being bug free.

            It's not an issue if your FTP server has an exploit based on LISTing files if it correctly ignores all input until a valid password is entered, and its handling of that password does not have bugs.

            So a firewall is justifiable because knowledgable admins of a managed network "may not h

        • Requiring a firewall is *always* a sign that you are either using broken software or ...

          Is there any non-broken operating system distribution? Windows is broken out of the box because it allows remote attacks inward. Linux distributions are also broken because SANE lacks a driver for Microtek Scanmaker 4850 scanners.

          • No, the Linux distributions would be broken if they included a driver that didn't function properly. I believe the word you want here is "incomplete".
        • When I removed my computer from the Linksys router that I had been using and connected it directly to the cable modem, I started getting these Messenger popups that had never been a problem with the router in place. I was running ZoneAlarm and made sure it was properly set up, but they kept coming until I disabled the service. So personal firewalls do not always protect from this, but apparently a non-routable IP address does.
      • windows 2000 and xp include a firewall, that probably won't fuck up the network stack.

    • Re:Stop that popup in 10 easy steps clicks for fre (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Damn, there goes my business plan...err wait a minute...I...um, have a patent on those 10 steps, and in order to use them you have to pay me a license fee...yea, that's the ticket!!
    • Start -> Run
      sc config messenger startup= demand

      sc stop messenger
      The space after the startup= is oddly a necessity.

  • How Sad (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Radu Lycan ( 534150 )
    How sad... /sigh. Not surprised in the least about this, considering how pro-business the current US Powers That Be are lately. Just how stupid could they be to somehow not be certain that D-Squared is doing something so blatently illegal? (well, either stupid or being influenced/controlled by someone else). Oh well...heres hoping the US gets better before the whole thing goes to "hell in a handbasket" :P A major civil war would be a good thing now imo, before the US becomes even more draconian then it al
    • Maybe this is not such a bad idea? Although you can probably do it more peacefully than it was historically. The Philippines sorta did it when they got rid of Marcos back in 1986 I think, it was pretty bloodless revolution.

      Of course you would need to know what you are fighting for, hopefully its to free yourselves from the oppression of people who try to exploit, extort you physically, mentally and virtually like these spammers, junk mailers, Bush, big corps that have no morals, and lawyers that support
      • Disclaimer: I did not vote for Bush. I am not particularly fond of Bush as the President. That sais...

        The US basically had a fake election ending up with a fake president. Its time the US citizens start making themselves the country they want, especially when your democratic process breaks down like it did back in your 2000 elections.

        I call bullshit. Florida was so fscking close that statistically it could have gone either way. There were legal deadlines to meet, and SOMEBODY had to make a decisio
      • I'm Canadian, but yeah I do notice how negative/flame-bait-ish my post seemed :P Was considering moving to the US in the future, but most likely won't now if it's as bad or worse then it is currently :\ And yes, I am getting quite tired of how the peoples rights, etc are continually being trampled by bad laws/big companies just trying to keep/increase profit with seemingly no respect to people in alot of cases.

  • How long before viruses are corporate? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by digitalvengeance ( 722523 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @12:40AM (#7732165)
    Ok, let's analyze this on a technical level.

    D-Squared is basically sending a series of packets to a specific port on the user's machine that is causing code to be ran, right?
    What about the latest list of RPC virii? Don't they do exactly the same thing? Sure, the code that D-Squared is causing to be executed was written by MS and the code that the virii run are written by their respective authors - but the two are essentially the same.

    How long before the courts allow virus authors to write antivirii and advertise them in the virus itself?

  • Why do people put up with it? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zeugma-amp ( 139862 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2003 @12:46AM (#7732196) Homepage

    D-Squared used the Windows messenger service to pop-up ads as often as every 10 minutes. The ads promoted its product -- software to stop 'these unwanted and illegal pop-up messages forever with the click of a button'

    That's the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

    Perhaps I don't get out enough.

    Sometimes it amazes me what windows users will put up with to stay on the microsoft plantation. Messenger pop-ups ... Web popups ... Spyware ... Gator ... Browsers that you can't trust to accurately represent a URL ... Programs that crash at random (or even regular) intervals...

    I'm sure there are lots of other everyday annoyances, since I don't have to deal with them anymore, they just don't come to mind.

    I was speaking with a fellow at work today and he was complaing about having to reload his windows box yet again because of stability issues. Why do people continue to just suck it up and deal with this crap? I guess I just don't understand why even people who know about the alternatives and are completely capable of dealing with the change continue to be so willing to submit. My wife is one of those. I've told her flat out that google and her own wits are the only tech support she has anymore. Fortunately for her, she knows enough to be able to figure things out on her own and can navigate DOS better than most, but I just plain refuse to be an enabler with this annoying pile of warm cow patties that is windows.

    • Re:Why do people put up with it? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      blahblahblah i hate windows blahblahblah i'm such an elitist blah blah blah. Funny, I've never had XP hang, freeze or crash, and I've been using it since beta. Under XP, I've also never had any Microsoft product hang, freeze or crash. It's only happened with a very small handful of 3rd party apps. I stick with updates, i run an anti-virus program and a firewall. I apply security patches and keep up to date with other security issues (IE: the messenger popups). Guess what? I run a very stable, never got ha
    • Probably to spite elitist assholes like you who wont even help their own WIFE have a working computer.

      Sometimes it amazes me what windows users will put up with to stay on the microsoft plantation...

      Seriously, of all the "problems" you listed the only one that is vaguely Microsoft's fault is the messenger one. The rest can be avoided by a little common sense like actually reading what you're clicking 'yes' to. Using a browser like Mozilla or even one of hundreds of popup blockers. Installing regular

      • A morsel for the troll (Score:3, Interesting)

        by FreeUser ( 11483 )
        Don't get me wrong, I think Linux has a very bright future and has a good chance of dominating over Windows someday. But the fact is, Windows is the still the most usable OS out there for the time being.
        • Not according to my mother, who switched from Windoze and now runs linux.
        • Not according to my girlfriend, who switched from Windoze and now runs Apple OS X.
        • Not according to my nieces and nefews (ages 2-14), who all run (at home) and prefer Linux over the windows systems they use at school, and who prefer

        • Not according to my nieces and nefews (ages 2-14)

          They're not in high school or college yet. Once they get into high school, they will begin to be pressured into playing video games that their peers are playing and that are available for Windows but not for Linux. Haven't the 6 to 8 year olds begun to ask for Reader Rabbit and the like?

          or it may reflect an idealogical, financial, or personal stake you have in Windows vs. other alternatives.

          The financial stake is a big one. Home users often don't wa

      • I have to agree with everything you've said. I installed Mandrake Linux on one of my old Windows machines a couple of months ago. The girlfriend refused to use it because it wasn't as simple and as intuitive as Windows, eventually I gave in and reinstalled Windows. Everything is so simple, integrated, and intuitive. Macs have the same kind of attributes. Until you can accomplish tasks (installing software, managing menus, etc.) in Linux with 3-clicks and intuitive wizards, the 98% of the world that doe
        • hopefully more people will start running linux as it gets easier for the "general public" to control and configure...the new debian installer for example.. i'm going to start burning copies of that installer and leaving them in public places.. *smirk*
    • There are a couple of reasons:

      * Familiarity. Just as most people aren't willing to learn a new (possibly significantly superior) control interface to their car, most people don't want to relearn an interface to their computer.

      * Software availability. Lots of custom and vertical-market software and games are only available for Windows.

      * Lock-in. Microsoft is actively making it unpleasant to switch from their software.
    • Sometimes it amazes me what automobile users will put up with to stay on the road. Traffic jams... high gas prices... exorbitant insurance premiums... speeding tickets... parking tickets... sleazy used car dealers... sleazy new car dealers... global warming... accidents... dirty air... smog checks... lines at the dmv... toll roads... noise... road rage... wars in the middle east... smelly oil refineries... corrupt oil companies... lemons... shady repair shops... red light cameras... registration fees... fi
    • Purely from my own experience I'd say:

      Maybe they like all their hardware to run out the box and not have to spend hours compiling software and configuring their PC? Maybe they like to have drivers at all for some of their hardware?

      Maybe they like to play PC games without spending hours compiling software and configuring their PC?

      Maybe they like to come home from work after programming/compiling and do some casual browsing and play a couple of games without having to spend ages at home what they have been
    • Browsers that you can't trust to accurately represent a URL ...

      Like Mozilla? You're right. That's why I use Opera. ;-)

      Try this one in Mozilla:

      http://www.mozilla.com%00@www.opera.com/index.ht m

      (I can't href it, slash strips the bug bit out)

    • Do you really expect people to use an alternate OS or browser when half the XP problems you listed can be solved with a few minutes of effort and common sense, yet they don't do that?

      The messanger service can be turned off with a few simple clicks. Most spyware and popups can be easily defeated with adaware or spybot. Most viruses can be reduced by common sense on what you open/click on and running an up to date virus scanner. Gator can be dealt with by not installing it.

      I do helpdesk at a college, and

      • when people blame windows for being unstable, etc, it's mostly based on the past; win2k and xp are very stable. Linux users are computer literate, they keep a box in shape; the same users would also have very stable windows boxes; it just happens that the majority of clueless users have windows, but set them up with linux and you'll get the same problem even faster.

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