Lessons Learned from RFID Field Test 178
muddy_mudskipper writes "From John Young's cryptome.org website, is a newly posted pdf copy of the "Lessons Learned from RFID Field Test" as compiled by the Field Test Program Manager of the Auto ID Center. It is interesting to note the photographs of the different passive RFID antennas that could be used in product packaging - some small enough to fit into a soap box. Also curious is how many sector antennas have to pepper the test center in order to approach 100% RFID readability. 'In March 2001 a team comprised of Auto-ID Center sponsors (technology & end users) was assembled to plan and implement a Field Test aimed at taking the Auto-ID EPC technology from the laboratory to the real world environment with the objective of proving the power and effectiveness of the EPC and to blaze a trail for future adoption' "
Two stories in a row I don't understand... (Score:1, Offtopic)
RFID and PAL (Score:5, Interesting)
the only useful (in terms of range) RFID tags at the time (18 months ago now) were resonant at 13.5 MHz, which is very very close to the colour burst frequency of PAL TV... not ideal for the inside of a Pro. tape deck
Complete redesign, readers outside and having to motion sensors to detect the tape's direction (if it was going in or out) delayed us quite considerably
Simon.
Re:RFID and CCIR (Score:2)
Simon.
Re:RFID and PAL (Score:2)
Unfortunately
Simon.
Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:3, Interesting)
Contgradulations!! Big Brother is watching YOU.
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does this have to be brought up every time something comes out about RFID tags? If "Big Brother" cared enough about you to track you, they would bring up your credit/debit card purchases and find everything about you that an RFID tag would tell them. You know that cell phone you carry around? Your position can be determined quite easily from that. Existing technology allows anyone to track you already. Anonimity has already been traded for convenience.
Don't worry though, nobody is watching and tracking you as an individual. Truth be told, Big Brother just doesn't care about you.
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2, Funny)
Cool! Does that mean I can skip my next appointment with the probation officer?
KFG
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
No. Your probation officer cares about you very deeply. :-P
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2, Interesting)
Run that by Daniel Ellsberg, just as a reality check. If the government wants to know in detail about you, all the answers are not in your credit card records. If you're using an RFID device to pay tolls, your every move through a tollgate (and the license number of the car you're driving at the time, as I found out) are recorded to hhmmss and kept on file for who knows how long.
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? What about the clothes I always pay cash for? What about the hooker I always pay cash for? What about the fact that after buying groceries I went to the gym, then strolled down main street? These things are NOT on my credit card bill, yet are discernable via RFID technology. What you're missing is that with a credit card, I
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
And what's with the hooker? Exactly which part of your hooker has an RFID tag? I can't imagine RFID tags are going to be ribbing your condoms for her pleasure any time soon, either... I fail to see how
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
I fail to see how RFID tags affect this purchase of services on your part.
Cash 2.0 will include a unique RFID tag as a "counterfeit protection mechanism" but will have "useful" side-effects in curtailing "illegal" commerce.
I suppose you can always claim that the fifty used by Sally Slut at the grocery store was one of those that you "lost" along with the other fifty that Carl Cokedealer turned up with.
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
My response was that for a privacy-conscious consumer who makes it a point to rarely if ever use a credit card, rfid tags provide a wealth of information th
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
It certainly does come across as paranoid. Exactly which government do you imagine has the money to implement a scheme which places covert RFID scanners outside people's houses? Exactly how do you imagine that said government will manage to place co
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
The answer depends in large part on precisely how much it would cost to manufacture scanners, and how many end up getting distributed. If a cheap, battery or solar powered standalone unit of small dimensions becomes possible, then it could be financially feasible for a government to place them at various chosen locations. A given government might decide it's only interes
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
I recently wrote a short story about combining RFID and credit card info [bcgreen.com]. Short, sweet and to the point.
RFID says what you have, credit cards say what you bought. The two together can have a certain Big-Brother synergy.
My doorkey is an RFID tag (Score:4, Interesting)
Simon
Re:My doorkey is an RFID tag (Score:2)
In the security business that's called a "prox card" (proximity) and, though it's essentialy the same thing as an RFID tag, the names aren't interchangeable. Prox cards have been around for 10+ years. RFID specifically refers to these little stick-on bits intended for inventory tracking and such that have come out recently. Prox card readers can only handle one card in range at a time. RFI
Re:In Soviet London... (Score:2)
Re:In Soviet London... (Score:2)
Nope, we're ahead again. The government has just decided that all Britons are going to have to have biometric ID cards [homeoffice.gov.uk] linked to a centralised government database. All in a country that has no written constitution, essentially no freedom of information, detention without trial, the acceptance of evidence gaine
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:3, Informative)
Hey, when I go out I always place my speedpass under my tin foil hat!
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mobil Speed Pass is RFID (Score:2)
I didn't realize that Mobil was a Gov't Agency.
RAID for RFID tags (Score:5, Informative)
RAID strikes again!
Re:RAID for RFID tags (Score:2)
Great, so now some ignorant businessman has come up with another word for one that already exists as the formal definition. We'll add it to the other lot that the database people have made up. They form a set.
Creating a logically ordered stucture of such related data creates a database, which is why you might choose to store said data in a DBMS.
Now, you might choose to store y
Re:RAID for RFID tags (Score:2)
To stretch it as far as we can, aggregation is a form of RAIFLT-1, like a mirror, where any tag in the aggregate can answer your read request.
RAIFLT-0 is basically the default of having a pile of tags, since you still have to read all of them to identify the contents of the pile.
I don't think there's a useful configuration tha
Re:RAID for RFID tags (Score:2)
Re:RAID for RFID tags (Score:2)
RFID... (Score:1, Informative)
The best non-battery tags can be read at 20 feet, and all the class 1 tags must have and support a kill command.
Re:RFID... (Score:3, Insightful)
Does that mean shortly after Wal Mart puts tags in everything some joker can walk through the store and tell them to all disable themselves?
Re:RFID... (Score:2)
Does that mean shortly after Wal Mart puts tags in everything some joker can walk through the store and tell them to all disable themselves?
No, it means that the tags are programmed to eliminate anyone who uncovers "Big Brother's" master scheme. Slashdotters beware!
Re:RFID... (Score:2)
Because a reader device is probably larger than 20cm square. Of course, they coul probably make a repeater/amplifier to make the distance travel further, but you lose the pinpoint functonality and go more into "This certain RFID is within 50 feet of this point."
I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
The little tags were very easy to pull out of the magazines. We would then put them in someones backpack or in their notebook or try to get them to step on it. it was lots of fun to watch them leave and set off the alarm and confuse everyone as they tried to figure out what wa
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
Last year a new wallet from Target had one of those "security" tags stuck way inside one of the linings. The checkout gal "disabled" it, but I later learned that it would enable itself again after you sat on it or otherwise stressed it a few times. I never knew if the damn thing was going to set off alarms when I tried to leave the store.
Eventually I just about
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
Re:I'm going to have fun with this (Score:2)
Me too, but I'm going to do my own asset management. I'll put big random numbers in my RFIDs and my homemade R2D2 will pick up and sort my laundry for me. It will also find my remote, and put it back where I like it.
I can give them to friends and let them give out to people as party invitations. When they come to the door, they need their RFID to get in, and I can go mingle instead of wathing the door. At the door, speakers will play my preproduced introduction, mixed into the music like DJ Hurricane bac
Re:You obviously don't understand RFID (Score:2)
I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as I know, systems with reasonable range aren't cheap. I'm not sure any system works well when attached to metal tools.
But the icky issue, is that I want to be able to track my stuff, but I don't want everyone else to be able to track my stuff.
I'd like to try tagging the stuff I lose around the yard and house. Since I would assign the tags, there wouldn't be many privacy issues. People with scanners would know how many things I tagged, but not what they are.
So, are there any affordable systems? How about affordable systems that can quickly scan a room (where is the remote now?). Where can I get them?
[The article was already slashdotted, so I have no idea what it is about.]
Re:I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:3, Informative)
The problem with these tags are that they are very fragile. They are fine when properly placed on a DV
Re:I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:2)
Re:I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:3, Funny)
I guess this is the result of growing up as the oldest of six =p
Re:I want private RFIDs for my stuff (Score:2)
I looked into doing something like that about a year ago. My idea was to tag all the things I habitually keep on my person, then
Peekaboo Boxes (Score:5, Interesting)
I like how they tried to obscure the "Gillette Venus" printed on the boxes in the PDF file but the overlay image doesn't appear until the picture is completely loaded.
Gillette doesn't want us to know that the tests are being conducted either with their cooperation or on their behalf.
Ooops. Foiled by the PDF.
Re:Peekaboo Boxes (Score:2)
Re:Peekaboo Boxes (Score:2)
Shall I cross the final frontier? (Score:2, Funny)
This reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer builds a webpage and starts calling himself Mister X. When the web graphic loads, it first loads Homer's picture, and then loads the ? bag over his head. he he.
Never thought I'd see it anyplace but on the Simpsons, but I guess with the recent
Re:Peekaboo Boxes (Score:2)
Check out the four PDFs. They've all got a big picture of Tom Ridge in the middle, before they start loading. Apparently their original idea for the campaign centered around him. Someone will have to explain to me why publicising Tom Ridge's picture is important for Homeland Security.
RFID Neuter Devices (Score:1)
The RFID docs on Cryptome were pointed to by CASPIAN, the premier group resisting the spread of RFID in consumer products. CASPIAN website:
http://www.spychips.com
Re:RFID Neuter Devices (Score:3, Insightful)
OT but serious, help please. (Score:3, Interesting)
Any decent source? Most of stuff I find on the net are either very limited range, or just trade offers with very short descriptions (no pinout etc), or available only for a fee. Could you share your sources for that stuff?
Re:OT but serious, help please. (Score:2)
Sensor Device Data Book [motorola.com]... all of their sensor chips & schematics, scanned into a PDF. Troll the Motorola website and I'm sure you'll find the other chipset books [motorola.com]...
Re:OT but serious, help please. (Score:2)
Re:OT but serious, help please. (Score:2)
If I were SirHaxalot: (Score:1, Interesting)
Make edible RFID tags! (Score:5, Funny)
This way, as soon as one of them waddles into their store, ones favorite happy meal will be ready for you by the time you get to the counter!!!
Convenience!!!
That will be double plus good!
Re:Make edible RFID tags! (Score:2)
Judging by the level of service currently seen at "fast" food establishments, this seems doubtful...
Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
basically the fbi enters a rfid number into the database and then history of travel for the car pops up.
the feds can also pre-enter rfids they want to watch after getting a reading off your parked car or from the canadian-us customs border (where they already actively log the car rfids in the tires and associate them with plates)
Your tires have a passive coil with 64 to 128 bit serial number emitter in them! (AIAG B-11 ADC v3.0)
Photos of chips before molded into tires:
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:SVUlB-z0BCQ J: www.sokymat.com/applications/tireid.html
Californias Fastpass is being upgraded to scan ALL responding car tires in future years upcoming. I-75 may get them next in rural funnel points in Ohio.
http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html
YOU MUST BUY NEUTRALIZED OR FOREIGN TIRES!!!!! Soon such tires will become illegal to import or manufacture.
Using these chips to track people while they drive is actually the idea of the us gov, and current chips CANNOT BE DISABLED or removed. They hope ALL tires will have these chips in 4 years and hope people have a very hard time finding non-chipped tires. Removing the chips is near impossible without destroying the tire as the chips were designed with that DARPA design goal.
They are hardened against removal or heat damage or easy eye detection and can be almost ANYWHERE in the new "big brother" tires. In fact in current models they are integrated early and deep into the substrate of the tire as per US FBI request.
Our freedom of travel are going away in 2003, because now there is an international STANDARD for all tire transponder RFID chips and in 2004 nearly ALL USA cars will have them. Refer to AIAG B-11 ADC, (B-11 is coincidentally Post Sept 11 fastrack initiative by US Gov to speed up tire chip standardization to one read-back standard for highway usage).
The AIAG is "The Automotive Industry Action Group"
The non proprietary (non-sokymat controlled) standard is the AIAG B-11 standard is the "Tire Label and Radio Frequency Identification" standard
"ADC" stands for "Automatic Data Collection"
The "AIDCW" is the US gov manipulated "Automatic Identification Data Collection Work Group"
The standard was started and finished rapidly in less than a year as a direct consequence of the Sep 11 attacks by Saudi nationals.
I believe detection of the AIAG B-11 radio chips (RFIS serial number transponders) in the upgraded car tracking http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html is currently secret knowledge. Another reason to leave "finger print on Driver license" California, but Ohio gets it next, as will every other state eventually.
The AIAG is claiming the chips reduce car theft, assist in tracking defects, and assists error-proofing the tire assembly process. But the real secret is that these 5 cent devices are a us government backed initiative to track citizens travel without their consent or ability to disable the transponders in any way.
All tire manufacturers are forced to comply AIAG B-11 3.0 Radio Tire tracking standard by the 2004 model year.
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:gwhgWJnCf3o J: www.aiag.org/publications/b11.asp
Viewing b11 synopsis is free, downloads from that are $10 and tracked by the FBI. Use the google cache to avoid leaving breadcrumbs.
A huge (28 megabyte compressed zip) video of a tire being scanned remotely is at http://mows.aiag.org/ScriptContent/videos/ (the file is "video Aiagb-11.zip"). I would use a proxie when touching it. The FBI is monitoring the "curious" hackers.
And just as showerheads are now illegal to import into the USA from Canada or mexico, as are drums of industrial Freon, and standard size toilets are illegal to import for home use, soon car tires
Re:Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:1)
[twisted humor]
Scene:
Man1: How's the warehouse inventory project going?
Man2: Well, we've got 2504 cans of tuna fish, 478 radial tires, and one Boeing 747.
Man1: A Boeing 747? WTF?
Man2: No, WTC! Hahahaha!
[/twisted humor]
Re:Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Listen carefully. *Any* RFID tag can be neutralized , when subjected to a strong enough field. Take your tires down to your neighborhood welder & have him strike a few arcs next to them.
The "feds" can't find Whitey Bulger, they're not tracking you through your tires. Your cell phone is much easier.
Shoes scare me a lot more (Score:2)
Re:Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:2)
So What? (Score:5, Insightful)
The last few months, I've gone from caring to indifferent in regards to RFID's. The reason? Visible Light.
With Visible Light, the FBI can track anyone, anywhere. In case you haven't noticed, they already have cameras which can read license plates, and from distances much longer than the few meters of RFIDs. RFID's are a moot point - the technology for tracking people using Visible Light already exists, and is already installed.
Eavesdropping technology is a red herring designed to distract the public from the real issue - that is, our legal system isn't entirely just. There have always been ways to frame the innocent, and there have always been ways to coerce and intimidate. The absence (sp?) of RFID's isn't going to prevent the government from oppressing people; last I checked, we are still "detaining" Muslim "persons of interest" for extended periods of time. Now tell me, what do RFID's have to do with that?
RFID's are a moot point. The real issue is the Federal Government's lack of accountability to the public.
Re:So What? (Score:2)
Now wait til they start putting RFID's in US passports (starting
Re:Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:2)
So, you're saying my hover car is safe? Or...are they also putting RFIDs in to the anti-graviton emitters, too?!?
Re:Your car tires have RFIDs in them ALREADY!!! (Score:2)
Your bizarre, unsubstantiated, unsubstantiable anti-governmental conspiracy theory would be entirely unremarkable, except for this new Slashdot-related twist on the old "I'm being silenced for telling THE TRUTH" bit. I gotta give you credit, you're taking kookery to whole new places.
Ok... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ppl are always spinning this RFID thing the wrong way. It's called a live inventory and it is already being done with the bar codes that they scan when you buy your bars of soap (or maybe you don't buy soap...I'm not one to judge). This is the biggest reason they want to do this. Besides serving as a replacement for a bar code, these things could also be used instead of those magnetic security scanners at the doors...you know, the ones that always go off because the cashier forgot to demagnetize the strip or didn't do it properly???
I don't know what ppl are so concerned about. The only ppl that should have these things are stores and maybe your kitchen if you want to know about everything you have...
Anything the store will know about you can already be gained by combining information from an ATM/Credit Card and the bar code scanner...
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
Terrorism, new viruses (the biological kind), economic chaos, SUVs, the continuing existence of "Friends" and unusual solar flare behavior simply aren't enough for many people. They must worry that the fact they bought Pop Tarts is being recordrd in a vast alien data vault buried beneath, oh, I dunno... Mt. Shasta? That's a mountain that figures into many conspiracy theories. And this database will be used to, oh, I dunno... steal their socks? Yeah. So
Re:Close but a few facts wrong (Score:2)
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
You must certainly be an opressor of the hyperimmune!!! Down with the opressors of the hyperimmune!!!
We shall scan their houses for RFID tags for Irish Spring, Bounce, and "Uekanuba Elderly Cat", round them up, and shame them for the enemies of the glorious revolutionary peoples immune liberation that they are!!
But seriously, folks
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
Anything the store will know about you can already be gained by combining information from an ATM/Credit Card and the bar code scanner...
If RFIDs actually worked worth a damn, they'd be pretty convenient. Just push your grocery cart up to the cashier and the register instantly knows how much you owe.
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
What people are concerned about is the future. Inch by inch, our lives are becoming more transparent through technology rather than advancements in society. Created in parallel with these new technologies are laws intended for everything from tracking cattle for the USDA to kids at schools to child molesters to cars to you name it. Little by little these things become a part of us and our culture and gradually become day-to-day "necessities" or are simply a
Re:Ok... (Score:2)
Great! For once, I'm ahead of the curve on something!
Things you should know about CASPIAN (Score:3, Informative)
The reason she has changed her target to focus on RFID is because... not one really listened to her when she whined about supermarket discount cards, by focusing on RFID she'll get more media attention (as she is now).
Re:Things you should know about CASPIAN (Score:2)
Once again proving that Western civilization has far too much leisure time.
RFID source code (C#) (Score:2, Interesting)
Valid use on non-Personal items (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, how about using RFID to track all items entering and leaving a construction site? This would provide very accurate and timely tracking of items arriving from suppliers, or being returned to suppliers.
None of these examples has privacy issues, yet they offer new solutions to rather challenging issues. Chief among them is the ability to match up electronic records with physical reality without being nearly as vulnerable to human error.
Re:That's a mighty small load of I-beams... (Score:2)
Not only farfetched, but unrelated. Sort of. The same thing could happen today. Driver comes w/ wing nuts & contractor tells him to put them in the corner, so he does. The person doing the unloading might notice the boxes are too light, but they would have noticed that with just RFIDs as well.
Maybe you are seeing something I am not, so how would RFIDs cause the problem? Either way
Latest news: Reynolds Wrap incorporates RFIDs! (Score:5, Funny)
RFID vs Barcodes (Score:3, Interesting)
What I'm getting at is that in the real world, humans will never always place the RFID labels exactly in the right place! Never! And, did you notice the size of those darn labels??? They are huge, some of them!
To me, this looks like a huge failure about to happen at Walmart's vendors expense.
Here are reasons why these RFID labels will not work properly:
1. Radio interference from many sources.
2. Improper placement on item.
3. Damage due to many reasons.
4. Distance from antennas.
5. Failure of antennas to stay properly tuned.
These are just a few reasons.
Barcodes are better and heres why:
1. The barcode tags do not store personal data on them.
2. They cannot be read from a distance without the use of a laser whereas RFID could be read from wihtin your package as you walk wthin a mall, or store, and even from one vehicle to another with the right equipment.
3. Barcodes are already on everything, and require no additional expense to vendors.
4. There are no real advantages to consumers for each and every item to be remarked with an RFID tag vs a barcode that is already on the item.
But, to giants like Walmart, RFID tags are just ANOTHER way of tracking products. Barcodes are already used at all Walmart distribution centers to mark pallets and crates or boxes.
Lastly, if you read the industry notes, you'll learn that RFID tags are becoming smart tags, and they will begin to be much more than mere number transmitters. In the future, RFID tags will be computers with storage ability and that will make you a walking target for stores and companies to monitor as you walk within stores or malls, you will be tracked, and your purchases identified even by other stores who want to see what you purchased at another store.
Just say no, to RFID tracking before it gets out of hand.
Re:RFID vs Barcodes: Some Benefits of RFID (Score:2)
4. There are no real advantages to consumers for each and every item to be remarked with an RFID tag vs a barcode that is already on the item.
Not so. There are number of benefits to consumers. These go beyond lower costs from more efficient handling of product and less theft of products. Three example applications that benefit consume
Wal*Mart, P&G already tested them in the field (Score:2)
And Gillette [boycottgillette.com] did about the same, too.
Can these be used in money? (Score:2)
Give me a handy-dandy rf interrogator which checks the validity of the internal key with a one-way hash and gives me a true or false. Sure, you could still just copy a number, but then they'd all be the same, and a smart reader would flag
don't trust it (Score:2)
Well gee, it sounds like they decided what the outcome of the test needed to be before they even began. How convenient!
I'm betting the numbers are so heavily fudged tha
Re:2 lessons (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you know that every dollar bill has a serial number on it? They could find out I spent that dollar on a soda!
Re:2 lessons (Score:2)
Re:2 lessons (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:2 lessons-Ship in bottle. (Score:2)
Note that they COULD do this, just like they COULD use RFID in the same way. All RFID is realy is a serial number.
Re:2 lessons-Ship in bottle. (Score:2)
Umm, a discretely readable serial #... that you don't have to even be able to see, just be nearby.
Re:2 lessons (Score:1)
Re:2 lessons (Score:2)
Yes. I have too much free time, whats it to ya?
Re:2 lessons (Score:3, Interesting)
My school does a *lot* of research into RFID tags, and guess what a lot of the "intended" uses are?
Corporates want to track people and habits, and government establishments want to track people, their habits *and* the corporates.
Re:2 lessons (Score:1)
Re:Your cell phone is a RFID tag! (Score:2, Interesting)
1) I know it's there (not buried in the soles of my shoes, for instance), so I can leave it behind.
2) I can *turn it off*, if I don't want to be constantly tracked.
Put some RFID pickups at the entrances to bus stations and airports, and you'll catch most of the tags passing through. Might not be very useful now, but who knows what creative uses someone could find in the future...
Re:What about recycling? (Score:2)
Well' I don't think it would make a whole lot of difference, since these things are so small. I'm guessing that in the recycling process, the tags would be destroyed somehow and ground up & becomes part of the new cardboard. Maybe the destroyed tags will start interfering with active tags attached to recycled boxes. Either that or a solar flare will activate a part of a destroyed one, causing a spark and burning down the warehouse.
Re:Much possible with this idea.. (Score:2)
Excuse my ignorance, but what's an IK chain?