Torvalds And Cox Write EU Parliament On Patents 293
replicant_deckard writes "Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox have sent an open letter to the members of the European Parliament. They ask for strict limitations to software patents, argue for open standards and ask the members of the parliament to follow FFII's voting recommendations. Vote on the controversial software patents directive will be on Wednesday and it is expected to be a very close one. Well, do you believe these guys have any impact in Brussels?"
Beats my letter (Score:5, Funny)
Patanst r teh suckzorz!!!! Say ON TO TEHM!!!
Loev,
Anonimouse cowerd
Re:Beats my letter (Score:5, Funny)
Can someone translate this? I take it this is in French since it is directed at Brussels. Babelfish is unable to translate though so perhaps it's German?
Re:Beats my letter (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Beats my letter (Score:2)
patents for software = bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:patents for software = bad (Score:5, Interesting)
They are scary in that they often take a well understoof process and one that has often been computerised in the past. Then they write a bad "functional specification" and whack the words "internet" or online in there. Suddenly half your clients are receiving threatening letters from Canada for going about their daily business and the IP lawyers are making hay. It is all very fucking annoying and a huge increase in the cost of doing business. I's rather have the small loss of an occassopnal "functional similarity" dust up than this.
in short (Score:4, Insightful)
-Linus
Re:in short (Score:3, Insightful)
Software patents are bad for everyone.
-Linux
Re:in short (Score:3, Informative)
Software patents is no different than recipe for baking a chocolate cake or a player piano roll for a some song. All three are nothing more than a
Re:patents for software = bad (Score:3, Interesting)
You are looking at a meaningless distinction that only exists in some programming language. There is no real difference between "source code" and "executable code". Any source code can be directly run by an appropriate interperter (meaning without compiling it at all), and any "executable program" can be directly read and written by a knowledgeable programmer.
When I started programming I first did so in non-compiled languages. The "source c
Will it affect Brussles? (Score:2, Insightful)
Credentials (Score:5, Interesting)
-Foxxz
Agreed (Score:5, Insightful)
The second most significant problem is that they give them a hyperlink to indicate what they can do to address these issues. They need to SPELL OUT what an MEP can do to help the anti-swpat cause. This means saying "this URL contains a list of amendments which are essential if this proposal is to protect competition and innovation in the European software industry".
Every additional second it takes for an MEP to figure out a) Why they should agree with you? or b) Given that they agree with you, what do they do? costs us votes.
Re:Agreed (Score:3, Interesting)
In the civilized parts of Europe we usually rid our selves of politicians we dont like, by working unpaid trying to swing opinion and removing their support in a democratic way. Talking to people, arranging debates at schools and public squares, writing articles to newspapers and magazines. Etc, etc. I
hmm (Score:2)
Re:hmm (Score:3, Informative)
Well (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know - how big a check are they including with their letter?
Re:Well (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)
I have helped to persuade my MEP to not-only agree with me, but to actively support the anti-swpat movement - and this is someone that previously didn't deal with tech issues at all (MEP Avril Doyle if anyone cares).
As in most things - the only way to guarantee that you lose a political debate is not to participate in the first place.
Re:Well (Score:3, Interesting)
Although I can understand the sentiment, the "since when did we have any say?" attitude isn't sound.
Once, I was mid-rant to my housemates, when one of them said, 'yeah, but nothing people say makes a difference'.
I looked around the room. We were all from different backgrounds. One of us came from a more wealthy background than the rest - let's call him Dave. I pointed out that if protest and political engagement had no effect, we'd all probably have been labourers on Dave's land, paid a pittance
Re:Well (Score:2)
May have some impact (Score:5, Insightful)
Then again, hefty campaign donations from rich software firms probably carry a fair amount of weight too...
It should be interesting to see what happens.
Jedidiah
Re:May have some impact (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:May have some impact (Score:5, Funny)
No, most of our politicians push stupid, industry biased laws _without_ being purchased.
Re:May have some impact (Score:3, Interesting)
Lobbism typically happens at the EU-Commision and Council, since they decide the faith of the Internal Market
Re:May have some impact (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't take money from companies and the don't take money from unions. Bang, out of the window goes the major source of corruption and political cynicism.
Re:May have some impact (Score:2)
In case of slashdotting, break glass (Score:4, Informative)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Linus Torvalds
Open Letter to
the Honourable Pat Cox, the President of the European Parliament,
members of the European Parliament:
Dear Mr. Cox,
We have been following with growing concern that Europe has been
extending patentability to computer programs. Now European Parliament
is about to vote on a directive that could put a stop to this
development, or make it worse, depending on how it is amended by the
Parliament.
US experience shows that, unlike traditional patents, software patents
do not encourage innovation and R&D, quite the contrary. In particular
they hurt small and medium-sized enterprises and generally newcomers
in the market. They will just weaken the market and increase spending
on patents and litigation, at the expense of technological innovation
and research.
Especially dangerous are attempts to abuse the patent system by
preventing interoperability as a means of avoiding competition with
technological ability. Standards should never be patentable! Likewise,
patents should never be used as means for preventing publication of
information - the whole idea of patents is to provide time-limited
monopoly in exchange for publication of the invention.
Software patents are also the utmost threat to the development of
Linux and other free software products, as we are forced to see every
day while we work with the Linux development. We want to be able to
provide the world with free high class, high quality, highly
innovative software products that really empower the users and offer
the best and only real chance to narrow the digital divide. Please do
not make this harder to us that it already is! In conclusion, we would
recommend You to vote for such amendments that
* clarify limits of patentability so that computer programs,
algorithms and business methods really cannot be patented as such;
* make sure that patents cannot be abused to avoid technical
competition by preventing interoperability of competing products; and
* ensure that patents cannot be used to prevent publication of
information.
To that end we would suggest following FFII's voting recommendations
on this directive (see www.ffii.org).
Sincerely,
Linus Torvalds Alan Cox"
Re:In case of slashdotting, break glass (Score:4, Insightful)
sure they have an impact (Score:4, Informative)
The new directive where brought up and prepared "silently", only noticed by the OS community. For the members of the parliament it was just a standard, "lets see that directive, and if nothing comes up we pass it" business.
Now with all those demonstrations and arguments and prominent people sending letters and making visits, its unlike the directive passes.
And if it does
angel'o'sphere
Re:sure they have an impact (Score:5, Interesting)
So in this case, the only question is whether it can be amended to address our concerns - it will almost certainly pass one way or the other.
Dream on! Your brand of apathy is exactly what we don't need right now. If the large software vendors can change the law to what suits them, then they can certainly stop us from changing it back in 5 years. This is our best, and possibly our last real chance to stop the damage being done to immigration by the unholy alliance of intellectual property lawyers, keen to milk the industry for legal fees, and the monopolists of the software industry, keen to let IP lawyers milk their smaller competitors dry.typo (Score:2)
s/immigration/innovation
Re:sure they have an impact (Score:2)
Re:sure they have an impact (Score:2)
This is only your perception.
What is a large software vendor in your eyes? IBM? HP? MS? Sun? Oracle?
All those allready have software patents in europe, however they can not really enforce them, as they are against the law in most european countries.
What happends if the directive would pass unchanged is: they all get valid over neight.
OTOH, european companies hold software patents to a far lower degree. If they start patenting after th
Impact? (Score:2)
None whatsoever.
As much as the US goverment is criticized on cyber issues these days, the EU has been even more hardcore on these types of issues (such as patents). One gets the impression that the collective leadership has made their minds up on the issue.
You are dead wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
We can and have made a difference - but we haven't won the battle yet. If you live in the EU and care about these issues take the time to contact your MEP and see where they stand on this issue - but remember:
Perspective (Score:2)
My take:
meet > phone > write > shout at TV > use toilet paper with politician's image > thinking of polititian unfavorably while cleaning fingernails > email
With everything but email, at least you accomplish something. (Shouting at TV releivs stress.)
Re:You are dead wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Graffiti? (Score:5, Funny)
Now im all for this non-violent, direct action stuff, but if Linus and Alan are going to around defacing patents, im not sure i understand the relevance of 'EU Parliament'.
Perhaps it would be better to stick with the classics, "Linux and Alan woz ere" or "Linux rules OK?" for example.
Bet (Score:2, Interesting)
Do politicians take any notice of open letters? (Score:5, Interesting)
Open letters are read by everyone else, sure... people on the street might take a look, journalists might use them as an easy out when they're looking for something to write this weeks column about, but does anyone have any evidence to suggest that politicians even know these letters exist?
Re:Do politicians take any notice of open letters? (Score:2)
Err, an "open letter" is one that you send to the recipient and the press. They didn't just put this on a website and hope that someone from the European Parliament would notice.
Re:Do politicians take any notice of open letters? (Score:2)
I wish I could say it'll make a difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it should be pretty clear by now (given the passage of the EU version of the DMCA, among other things) that the EU parliament and other European governments are very much in the pockets of corporations just like the U.S. government is. It's more a matter of degree than anything else.
That's why I don't think we who value our basic liberties have much time left. Others might ask why I haven't moved (I live in the U.S.), without realizing that there really isn't any place on the globe worth moving to. As far as I know, there isn't a single government on the planet that cherishes liberty and works towards maximizing that for its people. And even if there were, chances are most people wouldn't be able to go there anyway because of strict immigration laws.
Re:I wish I could say it'll make a difference... (Score:5, Interesting)
While not perfect, New Zealand is at least making some steps in the right direction. The Government is currently (albeit very slowly) looking at restricting the power of software patents. This came after a Canadian company sued a whole bunch of NZ online retailers for patent violations. Apparently they had a patent on automatically calculating shipping and currency conversion. The NZ companies balked and said shipping currency conversion was kind of obvious, especially when most buyers from a NZ online website will be from overseas. They have banded together to fight the legal action, and given that this amounted to a large chunk of NZs online retail operators, they successfully lobbied the government to look into this sort of thing.
As I say, it isn't perfect. The government hasn't DONE anything. But they are at least looking at it - that is, things are at least heading in the right direction for once. New Zealand has also successfully dodged a DMCA look alike so far after heavy public submissions when the government was looking at digital copyright.
Jedidiah
Re:I wish I could say it'll make a difference... (Score:2)
Nope. The EU governments are trying to remain inline with the US without wanting to appear that they directly copying rules. The UK even defeated a motion to create a 'Homeland defense' thingamjig quite narrowly in 2002. Something about the fact that we'd been h
Typos? (Score:2, Interesting)
Shouldn't it be "for us" and "than"? Isn't it possible that these members of parliment might think less of this letter based on grammar?
Of course, that sentence could be correct. If so, I'm an idiot. My bad.
It's not gonna work (Score:3, Insightful)
They do NOT want people to be in charge of their own systems. They want it to be like TV where you sit and consume.
They will patent and license to themselves and each other all the relevant algorithms with the long term goal of making open-source software illegal.
Did you XOR is patented and IBM pays to use it?
Free software will have to go underground. We could see people like Theo in jail.
This is going to get a lot worst before it gets better.
Re:It's not gonna work (Score:2)
Re:It's not gonna work (Score:2)
And it wouldn't be the first time in history freedom fighters would have to go underground.
Re:It's not gonna work (Theo in Jail) (Score:4, Interesting)
I personally think this argument does not hold water and I hope it is not Theo who becomes a target.
At the time I brought up the idea of we developers in the open source community starting to build a sheaf of our own patents by each of us joining an association and paying say $100 bux per year in order to fund the registration of our patents as well as to litigate infringment.
At the same time, membership in the organisation should give each and every person access to any patents and software held by the organisation while at the same time excuding any companies that want to double dip.
This would mean that if IBM for instance decided to join, then all IBM software patents would become available on a cross licensing basis. Meanwhile if Microsoft choses not to join, then they would be prohibited from using anything "we" might control by way of our patents and agreements.
I feel in very short order the opensource community would hold all the relevant patents.
Of course, there are developers who wish to do proprietary work - these are the startups and small to mid sized companies that Torvalds and Cox warn will be harmed the most by software patents. I suppose that membership in our group could be extended to them. I see no real reason why one could not have 2 classes of software within the patent group: open and closed. So maybe we can solve the problem in this fashion. Remember that the purpose of such an organisation is to create a free patent zone that includes all of Planet earth.
I will point out that I do see a danger here as well. At some point the organisation could control so many patents that they can force every person on earth who owns a computer to join, in which case it is a licence to essentually tax and who knows - maybe it will grow into a world government eh? haha.
[back to reality] Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is welcome to email me. But remember that if this is going to fly people are going to have to put their money where their opinions are because we will have to hire competant legal staff in perhaps several juridictions.
Re:It's not gonna work (Theo in Jail) (Score:2)
The OSS "community", such as it is, is composed mainly of a great horde of geeks who like to get neat stuff for free, and relatively few actual contributing developers.
It is as much as "we" can do just to keep churning out code for bugfixes and upgrades. They simply don't, as a general rule, command the resources to get patents written up, registered, and defended in the courts - all expensive
I thought Linus was 'just a hacker'? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the second such letter [slashdot.org] bearing a Torvalds
Is this the start of a new (albeit, not necessarily bad) trend of more coders voicing their opinions on IP law and its current state of affairs?
Re: Open letter (Score:3, Funny)
I've used your operating system once. It is slow, it crashed once with my Mozilla browser taking a minute to open, and none of my digital camera drivers worked with it.
Till then I suggest you improve your softwares. And Alan, tell Mom I said hi.
Love,
Pat Cox
EU President
Maybe not THAT open (Score:5, Interesting)
And I normally don't publicly criticize anyone about the mechanics of their message because I spent my time playing Dungeons & Dragons in high school rather than paying attention to grammar and spelling, but I really wish that they had run this by a 12th level grammarian with +2 red pencil before widespread open publication. I think that the letter itself will have a large impact, but I wish it were just a bit more refined.
Addressing the letter to "the Honourable Pat Cox" but opening with a salutation of Mr. instead of President.
Leaving out definite articles. Using a mixture of technological, legal, and political terminology but not spelling out or giving background on the different terminologies. Not saying it's wrong or unclear, but just that it might have benefitted from a bit more clarity.
I am really proud of the Linux leaders for doing something so important and inspiring. If not to the leaders of the European parliament then to me at least. I just wish I had no reservations about the form it takes.
Re:Maybe not THAT open (Score:2)
I wonder if this is a very good troll, to be honest.
impact of torvalds and cox (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe if you drop them from 20,000 meters.
Hard evidence that patents hurt? (Score:2)
What hard evidence is there to support this claim? STAC won a very large settlement against Microsoft due to their compression patents. They certainly qualified as a small enterprise. I agree there are a lot of bad software patents out there (they fail the obviousne
Re:Hard evidence that patents hurt? (Score:3, Informative)
With software patents, the court doesn't seem clear at all about what constitutes the "form" of the item being patented. It's not restricted to an instruction by instruction implementation. It's not limited to the particular computer language it's submitted in. It's down to the point of being so vague that now even just an abstract idea of something is enough to patent the item. It's to the point that one
Re:Hard evidence that patents hurt? (Score:2)
This goes hand in hand with all the offshore jobs. (Score:2)
But, it seems like most of them just don't "get it" yet. Of course, this is with a lot of help from big companies who stand to benefit from this stuff.
This law will pass (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that the right thing to do is to demonstrate that the new rules hurt the EU because the only benifit big multinationals that can shift workers to whichever far corner of the globe is cheapest and they hurt small EU software companies.
I think also that we need to convince the EU to have tight rules on what can be patented. Personally, my big wish is to prevent patents of things like file formats (e.g. LZW patent, MPEG patent) and communications protocols and APIs.
Also patents like the patent that prevents e.g. the GIMP from supporting print output options (CMYK or whatever it is)
Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:2)
Re:Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:3, Informative)
Sebastian
Re:Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wrong guys, send RMS there instead! (Score:2)
If they know only a bit about how many people in Europe consider him their leader, as far as philosophy on software is concerned, they care.
But what's more important: If you listen to RMS, you notice that he's not trying to get personal gain. He's not trying to get money, he's not trying to get fame, or at least not for the sake of getting it. He's trying to make a better world. And his better world is better for everyone, both Americans and Europeans. They should listen to such talk.
Why a URL (Score:2, Insightful)
What can Americans do? (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I'm not a citzen of the EU.
I don't expect politicians to care about the opinions of those who can't vote in their country.
But perhaps someone with more knowledge of the situation can suggest a way for me and other Americans to help.
Re:What can Americans do? (Score:2)
We should be voting for politicians who believe in OSS.
I wish that free software, or even any form of ethics, would be the reason for people to vote. It is for me, I want politicians to be ethical. But I have the feeling most people vote for their interests (read: money). Well, they get what they ask for: opportunistic politicians.
But even if people would vote for ethical reasons, then they'd probably say software is not the issue that makes the difference. Education, medical care, etc. are consid
Poor grammar? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not only is there no explanation as to who the signatories are but also a number of the sentences scan very badly indeed.
I realise that LT is not a native English speaker, but really, it doesn't come across as very well thought through IMHO...
Re:Poor grammar? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Poor grammar? (Score:2)
That was what I thought. Not because of the grammar (I haven't read much of any of them), but because of this sentence:
Software patents are also the utmost threat to the development of Linux and other free software products
I thought Linus was always talking about open source software, not free software.
A patent policy aimed at interoperability (Score:5, Interesting)
First, the interaction between patent law and antitrust law needs to be adjusted. If you have a dominant market position, you should't be able to use a patent to prevent interoperability with your de-facto standards. This is an antitrust issue because it's only a big problem when someone has market dominance. Interoperability with Microsoft Word is important. Interoperability with AbiWord is not.
This is not totally out of reach politically. Current antitrust law in the US and the EU arguably support this position, but enforcement is hard. A bright-line standard would help here.
Second, it needs to be clearly established that Government-mandated standards (ANSI, ISO, DIN, EU) preempt patents unless patent holders object prior to the issuance of the standard. The government standards organizations should be directed to adopt policies preventing the use of patented technology in standards unless the patent holder waives their rights under patent for all users of the standard.
Finally, "business method" patents seem to have been a mistake. However, the first one (4,346,442, the Merrill Lynch Cash Management Account, attaching a credit card to a brokerage account) has already expired.
These things do time out, and soon enough that it matters. The GIF patent has expired. The RSA patent has expired. The SyncSort patent has expired. All those technologies are still in use.
Press release on the open letter (Score:3, Informative)
FYI, there is now also a press release [effi.org] on the open letter in the EFFI web pages (I just put it there).
More resources, good summary at IP Justice (Score:3, Informative)
Take a look. They also oppose the Directive on software patents.
If I were to send an open letter... (Score:2)
"I am against software patents, but much more as well. I have far too much to say to list it here. But my entire feeling about the EU (and the US, and the WTO, and the IMF as well) can be summed up by the book of Habakkuk in the Bible. It's only three chapters long, and well worth reading before your next vote."
I'm not going to throw it in here, but I'm going to throw it in an A/C reply to myself. So if you want to read it, look in the replies below.
It's been said before (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's been said before (Score:5, Insightful)
Being steadfastly wrong has more PR value for politicians than being corrected by authorities on the subject, because the general public doesn't understand technology much better than the politicians, so how do they know who's right? Much better to shout about how right you are than to defer to another.
Anyway, im not sure i really understand the issue here. IANAL, so i don't really get why something that's copyrighted would also need to be patened, except as amunition for more IP wars.
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree. We DO notice what is going on, it's just that we cannot do anything legal to stop it. I've had this feeling for a long while now, that a revolution is brewing. It's time (again) to take the power back to the people.
The website protests were a good start, but restricting access to a geek website (eg freshrpms.net) is preaching to the choir. How about some 733+ h4X0r5 give us a government and high profile site blockages? How about the software and manufacturing companies give a week or month long
Do something about it - of course you can! (Score:4, Insightful)
WRONG
therefore are not responsible to you (i.e., the people who pay the bills)
WRONG
WRONG
Of course the Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) who are now deciding on the issue of Software Patents do have to worry about being re-elected (cf. Article 190 of the Treaty establishing the European Community [eu.int]: each term is limited to five years).
Neither most of them nor most of their voters may now understand the importance of preventing software patents, but there is one thing to be made clear to the MEPs:
The impact of software patents (and this includes any compromise claiming to avoid them while leaving plenty of loopholes to grant them nonetheless) will be felt by the public at large, and as software patents hurt companies large and small [ffii.org], and force them to eliminate jobs all across Europe, on election day the people will know for sure who made the mistake.
Contact as many MEPs as you can right now [eu.int], with a reasoned statement explaining to them why software patents are bad for you and bad for them. You should also remind the MEPs that despite all the spin-doctoring by the software patents' proponents, software patents are not about protecting intellectual property, but about artificially creating an intellectual property interest in typically trivial, individual steps of software development, which relies on and owes all of its progress to gradual innovation, and about assigning this made-up monopoly interest mostly to foreign megacorporations - to the detriment of everyone else [slashdot.org]. For this reason, however, it is all the more important not to allow the EPO to grant software patents in the first place, for if thoughts are turned into intellectual property and then people realise that this has been a mistake, there is no cheap and easy fix by simply repealing the law (technically, a software patents directive and its implementations), as this means to disown those who have been granted an unjust proprietary ownership of ideas - i.e. those who received such undeserved gifts will cry for compensation as then what they hold title to has to be taken away from them.
Re:Do something about it - of course you can! (Score:2)
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:4, Interesting)
You have to be fucking kidding me. Didn't the last civil war teach you people about living in the "land of the free"?
When some draconian law gets proposed, or your government wants to do something more restrictive with your country, if you don't say anything at all, you're open to everything, good and bad.
It's about time more people noticed the groundswelling of anti-corporate/bush/ashcroft "patriotism" that has been building since at least the year 2000, and did something about it. You can't remain quiet about that! You need to discuss the issues, not hide behind some "Patriot Act" or TIA mandate, or hell, use the DMCA as a club to beat your rights to death.
I don't even like the united states, but I can respect the need for change. The winds of change are building. Listen to what they have to say. Pass it on.
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:3, Insightful)
Vote.. really. What planet were you on during the last US election?
Bush wasn't voted into office. He was selected. With his brothers help. With lots of money.
The united states of embarassment is going to hell in a handbasket. And the sad thing is, that Europe wants to be JUST LIKE EM by passing ridiculous laws that further curtail human rights.
On a planet that has over 6 billion people, where at least half are living well below the poverty line, there is a countr
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:3, Insightful)
Bush wasn't voted into office. He was selected. With his brothers help. With lots of money.
Even if the above is completely true, it was only possible because the election was incredibly close. If more than 50% of people got out and voted maybe it wouldn't have been so close.
The U.S. vote and the consumer dollar are still worth quite a bit in the USA. In fact, since last election was so damn close the value of your vote this time around h
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:2)
I acknowledge your point; the election was essentially a tie. But our electoral system doesn't have a concept of a tie. If there is a "tie" you just count the votes more and more carefully until the margin is greater than the error in your count, so that the tie is broken. That's what the law says. There is no provision allo
Smells like teen spirit (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember when you were a little kid, and some toy or piece of candy was the most important thing in the universe? You've come a long way since then, so long that you probably can't really remember what it was like. Well the same thing is going to happen again. You'll become middle-aged a
Re:Smells like teen spirit (Score:2, Insightful)
Right, don't like the message, so attack the messenger. Great politics, but now everyone know's you're stupid.
That's amusing. At some level you must realize that the majority is not with you, so "the people" really means "the discontented."
No, "the people" means "the majority", and when "the majority" becomes "the discontented", then the trouble happens all by itself. Of course, next comes the shooting, and the beati
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:2)
There is a debate as to wherer the National debt has a negative impact and the prevailing opinion is that it only has an effect on future investment
(since money that would be in the hands of the people and thus invested is in the hands of the goverment.)
Other than that,
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:4, Insightful)
"Kick out the incumbents!" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:2)
In the UK, people brought up during a socialist era struggled to cope with the capitalist revolution imposed by Thatcher throughout the 1980's. Those who managed to adapt were then thrown to the wolves when the Tories were deposed by New Labour in the early 1990's.
Nobody wants to live like th
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:3, Insightful)
EU-Parlament: elected every 4th year by the people.
EU-Commision: selected by the governments (that are elected by each country's people)
EU-Council: based on a theme, representatives of the governments from each country gather (again they are elected by each country's people).
The discussion about EU's (or to come soon, the European Federation) parlament is that they have no real power, but they keep discussions happening, which could influence the commisions and/or the councils. But remember
Re:Mark this as the day (Score:2)
Re:FFII? (Score:5, Funny)
You: So, Mr. Random Chocobo, what are your recommendations for changing the law as it currently stands with regard to patents?
Chocobo: Kweh?
You: Or do you think that no change is necessary?
Chocobo: Wark!
You: What's that? You want me to give you some greens? I seeeeeeeeee...
graspee
Re:Phone, write, fax, meet, but don't just email (Score:2, Offtopic)
This guy has posted the same comment twice, and been moderated up (to +3 at the moment) for both of them. New karma whoring technique?
Do you have a better suggestion? (Score:2)
Do you have a better suggestion?
Re:Someone give me the actual argument (Score:2)